How do they keep the crazy under control until it's too late for us to exit?

[Cat Familiar]

It's a repeated story that so many of us share: we met the perfect person who is a great match for us, the love of our life. Then when we get involved, they show us a completely different side to their personality. There is drama and conflict that seems to come out of nowhere and we are confused and wonder why they are creating such needless chaos. They react angrily to us, blame us, say we're not on their side. It's all very confusing--this was our perfect lover and now they hate us?

What's even more of a mystery to me is how they manage to keep this entirely different side to their personality under wraps for so long. For some of us, it's been years before we see the full picture, even though there were mild hints along the way.

How do they manage to keep the crazy under control, until it's too late for us to get out gracefully?

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[Cat Familiar]

Logic tells me that they have some measure of control over the crazy. Otherwise they wouldn't have been able to hold it in abeyance until we're snagged, hook, line and sinker.

So presuming they have some ability to control its expression, at some point do they just not care anymore about making a good impression? Or have they lost respect for us? Or they know we're hooked so they don't have to try anymore?

I've always been fascinated watching pwBPD suddenly thrust in a social situation after some recent bad behavior with their loved one. They can portray the most fascinating, engaging and charismatic characters--mere minutes after a dysregulation. I've experienced it with my mother, both husbands and an old boyfriend I also suspect had BPD.

It's almost like now you're living together, you don't worry about deodorant, holes in your socks, spinach in your teeth, uncombed hair. (Some of us still do.) But I'm really curious what is the internal reasoning in the mind of the pwBPD that it's suddenly OK to act out their bad emotions, using our relationship as their stage. Is it because they trust us? That we're safe?

[Daniell85]

When my boyfriend began his acting out and I actually was feeling the pain of it, initially my feeling was "he doesn't mean that" and "there is a misunderstanding because no way would he do that!"

So I questioned him. He became angry. He was outraged. He couldn't be in a relationship where he was not trusted ( and he was telling me lies in the same conversation). So the table was flipped and he was threatening to leave if I didn't shape up.

I was confused, trying to figure out where the breakdown in understanding was. So I spent a lot of energy trying to figure out what I was doing wrong.

I wasn't doing anything wrong. I was being gaslighted, manipulated, projected onto, lied to, threatened.

As to why they suddenly flip from the lovely partner we thought we had to BPD behaviors... .I think it's hidden very well and certainly my expectation on getting into the relationship was for "normal" so I didn't pick up on things.

I also think that there is a lot of NPD stuff in some BPD men. My boyfriend, for example, hates having his darker underbelly exposed to people he wants to impress. So he puts on a façade and will rage if he thinks he is looking bad.

Armor. Self protection. I think the shine wears off of us at some point and they just start a downward spiral that we are desperate to stop. Then they lose respect because we are still there.

[babyducks]

I have a slightly different perspective on this Cat,  I see that initial perfect relationship we had as a product of mirroring.   Our pwBPD person met us and being BPD mirrored us.   I remember being so thrilled that I found some one who shared my interests, my taste in music.   and the more happy I got the more she mirrored me.   It didn't    click for a long time that basically the person I fell in love with was a mirror image of myself.     eventually she couldn't hold the mirror up any more.  and eventually she started to mirror my not so attractive qualities too.

[Cat Familiar]

When my boyfriend began his acting out and I actually was feeling the pain of it, initially my feeling was "he doesn't mean that" and "there is a misunderstanding because no way would he do that!"

I think the shine wears off of us at some point and they just start a downward spiral that we are desperate to stop. Then they lose respect because we are still there.

Yes. I too, questioned my husband, thinking that somehow we weren't communicating well when I first noticed the odd behavior. I thought that if I could just understand and if we kept talking, we could build a bridge and repair the misunderstanding and that all would be well.

Like your boyfriend, his response kept getting weirder and weirder and he thought I was attacking him and criticizing him.

Before I found out about BPD, I thought if I just kept trying that I would be able to successfully communicate with him and straighten out any misunderstanding. Wow, was I ever surprised at what I discovered I had signed up for!

Definitely, there is an element of them losing respect when we allow ourselves to listen to their rages and verbal abuse. I've created a boundary there, and I think the respect is returning, but it's never the same after we've allowed ourselves to be the recipients of their verbal abuse.

[LostGhost]

I have a slightly different perspective on this Cat,  I see that initial perfect relationship we had as a product of mirroring.   Our pwBPD person met us and being BPD mirrored us.   I remember being so thrilled that I found some one who shared my interests, my taste in music.   and the more happy I got the more she mirrored me.   It didn't    click for a long time that basically the person I fell in love with was a mirror image of myself.     eventually she couldn't hold the mirror up any more.  and eventually she started to mirror my not so attractive qualities too.

This was partially what I experienced as well. Not only a mirror, but I feel they have a collection of masks that they wear for any given situation. The mask they wear for this friend, that friend, this partner, that partner, this coworker, that coworker. The most eye opening experience I had was being at a wedding with her and the events after. She was forced into a social situation where not only was I present, but friends from her distant past, and recent past. She looked so uncomfortable and I could tell she was juggling several personas at once. Eventually she caved and had a breakdown. I was the focus of that outburst and our relationship was collateral damage. Like a snake shedding it's skin, who she is now after me, I still recognize her but she wears a different skin.

[Cat Familiar]

I have a slightly different perspective on this Cat,  I see that initial perfect relationship we had as a product of mirroring.   Our pwBPD person met us and being BPD mirrored us.   I remember being so thrilled that I found some one who shared my interests, my taste in music.   and the more happy I got the more she mirrored me.   It didn't    click for a long time that basically the person I fell in love with was a mirror image of myself.     eventually she couldn't hold the mirror up any more.  and eventually she started to mirror my not so attractive qualities too.

I definitely agree that mirroring is a big part of it, and my first husband was very skilled at that in the beginning. But in my second BPD marriage, we started out being quite different: me, the country girl; him, the city guy. Me, the agnostic; him, the Buddhist. Frankly, there weren't a lot of things we had in common, other than politics, so it's surprising we've been together 11 years.

What drew me to him in the beginning was his overwhelming acceptance, appreciation and expression of love and admiration. Coming from a BPD family, it was catnip to me, after being starved for affection and approval for most of my life.

My not-so-attractive qualities are being aloof, distant, analytical and critical. He doesn't mirror those except perhaps the distant part. I do not rage, nor do I become irrational, so when he started doing that, it really surprised me, especially since his professional career has been law. To see a very logical, rational man suddenly become a raving lunatic was quite unexpected.

[Cat Familiar]

I feel they have a collection of masks that they wear for any given situation. The mask they wear for this friend, that friend, this partner, that partner, this coworker, that coworker.

I've noticed him putting on a mask in certain social situations when he wants to impress someone with how nice, observant, smart, sophisticated, educated or whatever other quality he thinks he needs to demonstrate in order to get them to like him.

With other people, he often doesn't bother and can take a slightly hostile stance toward them.

It makes me think it's an artifact of attending prep school and an Ivy League College with kids from very wealthy families.

I'm not an elitist and I have friends from all social classes, so it's obvious to me sometimes when he seems to think he's "better" than someone in a certain way.

[init]

Great thread!  Helps me understand more... !   I would also describe my wife as one minute totally dysregulated from rage to depression then a friend rings and it's like any other day laughing and joking... .it is on the face of it bizarre!... .they have an ability to switch quickly... .but also say it's Christmas ... .lots of pressure friends family... .you can see her buckling trying to hold up the pretence to everyone... .and guaranteed she will lose it and completely dysregulate at some point. Sometimes you get a verbal clue she is struggling... like ... 'I'm fed up trying to keep everyone happy' ... I guess this could be translated to... .I can't keep up this false persona much longer!

[Mutt]

I've noticed him putting on a mask in certain social situations when he wants to impress someone with how nice, observant, smart, sophisticated, educated or whatever other quality he thinks he needs to demonstrate in order to get them to like him.

I can relate with that. I found that my ex would act a certain way around friends, family and strangers, confident, pleasant, easy-going and charismatic.

On the other side of the coin she has a false self, stemmed from the core wound of abandonment and behind the mask a sufferer of BPD have shame, low self esteem, self loath, fearful, anxieties and anger.

I don't think that wearing masks is synonymous with BPD? We may also also wear masks and present a different persona to the world than who we really are?

[init]

Hi Mutt

Is mirroring a recognised action in BPD?

It seems to fit my situation ... .how she seemed so perfect... .Not sure what that says about me ... I remember I  was susceptible at the time we met... and it happened way to fast... .but she pushed it as fast as it could possibly go.

[Cat Familiar]

I would also describe my wife as one minute totally dysregulated from rage to depression then a friend rings and it's like any other day laughing and joking... .it is on the face of it bizarre!... .they have an ability to switch quickly... .but also say it's Christmas ... .lots of pressure friends family... .you can see her buckling trying to hold up the pretence to everyone... .and guaranteed she will lose it and completely dysregulate at some point. Sometimes you get a verbal clue she is struggling... like ... 'I'm fed up trying to keep everyone happy' ... I guess this could be translated to... .I can't keep up this false persona much longer!

You are describing my mother. It was amazing how fast she could switch. But she did the social persona at a great personal cost. When she'd come home and could be "herself", she would be exhausted from the effort of trying to be other than what she was.

[Cat Familiar]

I don't think that wearing masks is synonymous with BPD? We may also also wear masks and present a different persona to the world than who we really are?

I definitely am on my best behavior in certain social situations where I'm not totally comfortable. I think the difference is that I'm not trying to be "other" than how I feel. I just rein in certain sides of myself. For example, I won't express my political views if I'm around a group that I suspect to harbor quite different opinions. I will also change my word use and language between certain groups, using slang and the occasional vulgarity in certain contexts and being very proper in other groups. It's all me, it's just utilizing social intelligence.

I think the difference is that for many pwBPD, they have to "put on" certain behavioral aspects, which are not really their natural state and through doing that over time, it is exhausting. They're trying so hard to be liked, whereas I'm just trying to be appropriate. I figure there will be some people who like me, some who dislike me and most will be indifferent. I choose to focus on the ones that like me and it's not so much work.

[Mutt]

Hi init,



I can see how that would be confusing, you're describing a hallmark of BPD and emotional dysregulation.

BPD is an emotional based disorder, a sufferer of BPD feel emotions more intensively, feels emotions longer, it takes longer to return to their emotional baseline.

A sufferer of BPD also feel more negative emotions than positive emotions, have difficulties regulating emotions and can't self sooth, it sounds like your wife is triggered from the anxiety and stress of the holidays which is different than wearing a mask. I hope that helps.

I don't think that wearing masks is synonymous with BPD? We may also also wear masks and present a different persona to the world than who we really are?

I definitely am on my best behavior in certain social situations where I'm not totally comfortable. I think the difference is that I'm not trying to be "other" than how I feel. I just rein in certain sides of myself. For example, I won't express my political views if I'm around a group that I suspect to harbor quite different opinions. I will also change my word use and language between certain groups, using slang and the occasional vulgarity in certain contexts and being very proper in other groups. It's all me, it's just utilizing social intelligence.

I think the difference is that for many pwBPD, they have to "put on" certain behavioral aspects, which are not really their natural state and through doing that over time, it is exhausting. They're trying so hard to be liked, whereas I'm just trying to be appropriate. I figure there will be some people who like me, some who dislike me and most will be indifferent. I choose to focus on the ones that like me and it's not so much work.

I hear you, you're describing your sense of self, a sufferer of BPD have an unstable self image and lack a sense of self and don't know who they really are.

[Cat Familiar]

a sufferer of BPD have an unstable self image and lack a sense of self and don't know who they really are.

I would agree with the unstable self image, but I wonder if they really do lack a sense of self. They certainly seem to question their sense of self. And they attach themselves to various ideas, concepts, stances. Some of the BPDs I've known are very opinionated--and sometimes their opinions change radically over time--sometimes almost over night.

Both my husband and my late mother have consistently behaved in similar ways in social settings: as "people pleasers." And both have had the same repercussions of burnout afterwards. To me, that indicates that they were not behaving in alignment with how they truly felt in the moment, which was self-reported to me as "shy" in my husband's case and "self-conscious" in my mother's.

I'm parsing words here, but their accounts seem to indicate some sense of self and an awareness that being in the public eye, the realization that they were acting in a way that was uncomfortable and unsustainable. To me, that indicates some ''sense of self."

[waverider]

A lot of it has to do with a narrow field of focus,in the early stages of a relationship the focus is on you and all the new experiences a relationship brings, almost like the latest fad. It engrosses them totally and allows them to stop self focusing. They are living their life through you. By proxy if you like with Mirroring being a tool of this.

As this is a fad, and not deep seated it wont last and eventually they exhaust the "new wonder' of it all and it looses its appeal like an old toy. Consequently they start to refocus on themselves again and impulses and self need come to the fore. The BPD behavior starts to become more pronounced

[teapay]

My wife has journaled abit.  She journaled throughout our courtship (about a year when things were great) and throughout the first few years of our marriage as she was begining to express symptoms BPD.  From them, one can clearly see her own deep puzzlement of herself and her struggle to deal with it.  The entries of her private inner mind are quite different to what I was experencing from her.  In them you can see a significant, almost inexpicable, shift in mental stability within about 2-3 months after marriage.  Overtime it just think she evetually weaken and tired lost that struggle to overcome it.

[Notwendy]

Great thread.

My H and I met in school. I fell in love with the person he is in social situations, and at work and with friends. Since I am pretty much consistent with people, and my friends are too, the idea of a Jekyll/Hyde persona was not something I was aware of. I assumed this was who he was all the time.

There were glimpses of the anger, but this was attributed to temporary stresses, easily understood as exams, or some other reason, and they were not predominant.

It was when we left school and our social support for employment, and starting a family that the raging, silent treatment showed itself. I was bewildered. It seemed that the man I fell in love with had disappeared. Being co-dependent, I worked even harder at being a loving, caring, accommodating wife to get "him" back.

Although we have a family together, our social lives are pretty much divided. He has his work, his hobbies, his friends. I spend my time with the kids, and other mothers. We don't share a friend group like we did when we first met, and we rarely socialize together.

Like Cat says, I think most of us "let our hair down" with people who are the closest with us. We don't go to work in our sweatpants, and we likely wear something nice to a party. But in general, I think I am as consistent in how I treat everyone.

A few years back, we went to dinner with an old friend/work colleague and I found myself thinking " who is this man?" listening to my H speak to his friend. It sounded like a different person. Yet my H is the one who accuses me of "being different" with my friends than with him. Although things have improved between us, I have to admit that it is hard to forget that when he is being kind to me, I've seen that other side.

Another poster said this well, I think. That BPD is a form of attachment disorder, and so it makes sense that the people who are most intimate with someone with bPD would be the ones also that experience the emotional "push pull". Ironically, it is because they are close to us that these issues occur. For us, it was only in the marriage - a good thing but also confusing as I assumed it was my fault that my H was great to everyone and yet, could be so angry with me.

I also saw this with my mother with BPD.

[waverider]

I think also the basic neediness of pwBPD means they become dependent on those around them. Dependency is another side of giving others control and power over you. Ironically pwBPD have a fear of being controlled and hence they eventually push against those they have become dependent on. Even though they put you in that position in the first place. >>The chaos of push/ pull (Jekyl and hyde) behavior.

[CrazyChuck]

It's a repeated story that so many of us share: we met the perfect person who is a great match for us, the love of our life. Then when we get involved, they show us a completely different side to their personality. There is drama and conflict that seems to come out of nowhere and we are confused and wonder why they are creating such needless chaos. They react angrily to us, blame us, say we're not on their side. It's all very confusing--this was our perfect lover and now they hate us?

What's even more of a mystery to me is how they manage to keep this entirely different side to their personality under wraps for so long. For some of us, it's been years before we see the full picture, even though there were mild hints along the way.

How do they manage to keep the crazy under control, until it's too late for us to get out gracefully?

Yes to all the above!

[Cat Familiar]

I've been thinking long and hard as to why I was so susceptible to the charms of a pwBPD and it's a pretty easy answer. My mother was undoubtedly a pwBPD, though she was never diagnosed. I feel that I never got the unconditional love and validation that many children get from their family of origin and I was so susceptible to being swept away when someone mirrored me and told me he loved me exactly the way I was.

My first marriage put me through Hell, but this one is mostly a positive experience, other than the disappointment I've realized through becoming aware that I cannot just be myself, but need to "manage" my self-expression with my husband.

Though I've learned what works and what doesn't work, it's been quite disappointing to realize that I cannot truly be frank and open with him, as I would be with someone who is emotionally healthy. But in so many ways, I'm truly blessed in this relationship. He is a kind man, despite his personality disorder. He is financially stable, which is something that I haven't experienced since childhood. I know that many people in relationships with emotionally healthy partners still struggle, so what I'm dealing with is not really a burden. I feel that I'm finally getting past the point of grieving what I thought I had, but what I really l have is still worthwhile.

[Notwendy]

I think you have a point about having a parent with BPD making us succeptible to someone who could mirror us and give us the attention we craved. I also think it goes both ways- a partner with BPD could be drawn into our caretaking qualities, as they too grew up in homes where they lacked love and approval.

Like you, all things considered, I feel grateful for the good qualities in my H. I didn't have a clue growing up about what was going on with my mom. My parents didn't let on to the diagnosis. I only discovered it later on as an adult and when I read about it - it was as if all the pieces of my childhood experiences fit together. I had read several books about marriage- and then made the connection to how these family patterns fit together too. I am grateful to people who showed me my role in the dysfunctional patterns as well.

[Cat Familiar]

I think you have a point about having a parent with BPD making us succeptible to someone who could mirror us and give us the attention we craved. I also think it goes both ways- a partner with BPD could be drawn into our caretaking qualities, as they too grew up in homes where they lacked love and approval.

Like you, all things considered, I feel grateful for the good qualities in my H. I didn't have a clue growing up about what was going on with my mom. My parents didn't let on to the diagnosis. I only discovered it later on as an adult and when I read about it - it was as if all the pieces of my childhood experiences fit together. I had read several books about marriage- and then made the connection to how these family patterns fit together too. I am grateful to people who showed me my role in the dysfunctional patterns as well.

Yes, we with BPD parents often learned to be caretakers very early. I remember being "the clown" as a very young child, to try to distract my mother and make her laugh.

I was so mystified by her behavior and I knew something was very wrong with her when I was quite young. I remember studying TV shows with families just to learn how "normal families" behaved. This study began when I was about 8 or 9.

Later, I studied psychology, majored in it in college and even went to grad school with the idea I'd become a therapist. Fortunately I realized before I accrued a lot of student debt that psychology was not a profession for me.

Now that I look back on it, my entire purpose of study was to understand my mother. At the time I was in school, borderline personality was not nearly so well-defined as it is now. It wasn't a label I considered pinning on my mother's behavior because it was much more severe than her symptoms were. She was able to keep a job (for at least a few years) and superficially she seemed like the "perfect mother" or so my friends thought. They didn't see the dark underbelly of the family.

But thanks to current writings about BPD and this group, I see that she fit the borderline criteria perfectly. Mystery solved.

Now, like so many here, I see that I put much of my life on hold, trying to understand and adapt to pwBPD. As a former co-dependent and somewhat of a current caretaker, I now realize that I have nothing to apologize for and that it is perfectly acceptable to be ME--something for which I always felt a terrible burden of guilt, both as a child and later as a wife.

[Notwendy]

I was also interested in psychology. I took it in high school and in college. I didn't want to be a therapist though. I felt I had enough dysfunction at home and didn't want any more.

Even at the time I was aware that my interest in this was to figure out the mystery of my family, because it was a secret that the adults would not admit to.

I would go to my best friend's house and see her mom cooking nice things for her family, and being loving to the kids. Once when I spent the night, I woke up with a stomach ache. I got up quietly, trying not to wake anyone up. Her mother had "mom ears" though, and the sound of a kid getting up at night woke her up. She was there in a second, asked me if I was ok and then patted me on the back. Such a natural mom comforting gesture.

It astounded me, as I had not experienced that before. Even as a kid, I knew things were different.

I don't think my friend's mom ever knew it, but I consider her to be one of my best role models as a mother.

[Cat Familiar]

I remember a friend's mom tucking me in my sleeping bag when there was a sleepover at her house. These sorts of experiences obviously made a big impact upon us, that we can remember them vividly decades later, and were a contrast from not having that kind of comforting with our own mothers.

[SummerStorm]

Mine can't keep it under control for very long, so I am always amazed when I read stories from people who didn't see any major BPD symptoms for years.

Her ex-boyfriend and I have estimated that it takes about 2-3 months for everything to start going downhill.  Two months after she met him and became friends with me, she started cutting again.  Then, she cheated on him.  Next, she tried to commit suicide.  Finally, she just up and left him, less than two months after discarding me.  That being said, she was able to pretty much fool everyone else she worked with for 9 months.  Most people thought she was odd, immature, and unreliable, but they would never have guessed that she has BPD. 

She definitely is a different person depending on who she is with.  She dresses differently, acts differently, speaks differently.  It's no wonder why I never met her ex-boyfriend or any of her other friends and why he never met anyone else in her life, other than her parents.