I believe it's over but...

[bestintentions]

Where do I start?  Three weeks ago today my wife (47, I'm 46) of almost 23 years (been together 25, two adult children - 22 & 19) confessed to three affairs in the last five years to which I was blissfully ignorant.  I have been in consultation with a close doctor friend (psychologist) who believes she has BPD and after educating myself for the better part of these last few weeks, I agree wholeheartedly.  She moved out almost immediately after confessing them to me, and I see this as classic avoidance on her part.  We have been in fairly regular contact (sometimes sexual) over these weeks and I'm trying to convince her to seek immediate help.  She knows about my consultations and, yesterday, was even involved in a phone call on next steps for therapy with my doctor friend.

It should be known that I have an enabling personality and am guessing that co-dependence is part of my current equation as well.

Complicating matters exponentially... .she admitted she has engaged 3 other sexual partners in the last 2 weeks alone (unprotected sex) since moving out... .so it's my opinion that her condition is more severe than I had any clue about and that she's currently in a terrible spiral.  I have expressed my wishes to do my best to forgive her if she wants to enter therapy to save this marriage, but she has been controlling the situation by being noncommittal.  After the phone call to the psychologist yesterday, she signed divorce papers which I am going to file this morning.  I told her in order to work this out with me that I needed to set my own rules instead of bending to her whims and anger.  I told her she must reveal the names and identities of these lovers and call them while I'm present to break it off and tell them she's entering therapy to work on herself and her marriage.  She says she can't do that yet and feels like I'm pushing her to make the decision to divorce me.  None of these lovers know about each other.

I feel like I'll eventually be in a solid place to move forward and rediscover who I am on my own, but the pain is awful right now as I'm sure many of you have experienced.

Is there any hope of reconciliation after/during therapy for any of you that have had similar stories?  I can provide further details in the thread if requested.

I know the phone numbers of two of these men... .should I contact them to inform them of her condition and that she is most likely engaging in unprotected sex unbeknownst to them?  Even if it's truly over for us romantically, I love her as a person regardless and want to see her get into treatment for her own sake and the sake of our children and future grandchildren.

Other stats on my wife:
Sexually abused by mother's live-in boyfriend from age 6-12
Skin-picking to the point of mutilation/scarring
Second shifter - currently not eating well and getting 2-3 hours of sleep a day
Drugs - Sertraline, buspirone, Adderall for ADD, some alcohol
May be perimenopausal

Any and all comments welcome, thank you!

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Meili]

Welcome to the bpdfamily. It's incredibly sad that you've had to find yourself here, but it may also prove to be a blessing in disguise.

Around here we call "setting your own rules" boundaries. They are great tools to have for every relationship, but seem essential to one with a person with BPD. There are more great tools in the LESSONS thread.

If you need more insight on boundaries, a good place to start is HERE.

I wish that we could answer whether or not reconciliation is probable. There are just far too many variables in that all of our situations are unique. But, yes, it is possible.

In my humble and personal opinion, I would not contact the other men if I were you. Especially after your wife told you that she's not ready for that yet. You are just going to inflame the situation if you do. I would, however, take whatever steps were necessary to protect yourself from any fallout from her choices.

I'm curious as to why you are filing the divorce papers if you're not sure that you want your marriage to be over though?

[bestintentions]

I filed because it's a step for me to resolution one way or the other.  It can easily be dropped if desired since there's a 4 month window before the first court date.  The more time that passes and as I further ponder and absorb her actions, the more I'm thinking that the infidelity is so egregious in this short amount of time that it's damn near impossible that reconciliation and therapy could become a reality for us.

I will always love her and I hope she gets help.

If anyone else has a similar story, I'd love to hear it.

[Meili]

Infidelity and trust can be very difficult problems to recover from in a relationship. It is possible though if both parties agree to do the work necessary.

Fortunately, I did not have to deal with infidelity in my relationship as far as I know. I have had to deal with all of the other problems that go along with a BPD relationship. It devastated my world and I had to walk away from it. It got me into therapy though, so I'll forever be grateful to my x no matter what my future holds.

We had been going to couple's counseling prior to the break-up. She continued to see the counselor after. The counseling was good for her. Our interactions have been mostly positive since. We stumble every now and then, but everything feels different.

We are not back together, and may not ever be a romantic couple again, but we can at least talk these days without wanting to kill one another. My therapy, along with the communication tools that I've learned here, have allowed me to communicate with her in a manner that I can actually hear what she's telling me. I even have moments where I feel that she is actually hearing me now. There has been a bit of talk of reconciliation, but she's still worried that things will go back to normal and I will abandon her again. I can only show commitment and consistency on those fronts. Time will tell.

Has there been any improvement in your situation?

[bestintentions]

I told her yesterday that we're done.  Her status with multiple sexual partners... .is just too much for me and I don't ever see a reconciliation happening.  I'd never say never to the future, but right now it looks so bleak I just don't want to be a part of it.

The psychologist has even recommended getting our children to push her to go to therapy, but they feel weird about intervening and have decided against it for now.  I tried desperately to get her to seek help... .even contacting/visiting her when she didn't contact me.  We've even gone through online "testing" together and she fits so many of the criteria that, to me, it's pretty damn clear. 

As we all know, I cannot change her behavior or "fix" this.  I laid the foundation for reconciliation as best I could.  Now that I've decided to move on, I have been texting her with information she needs to know as she still has many belongings in the house that she needs to remove.  She has already made excuses over the last two weekends to not come to the house to get her stuff, including engaging a new sexual partner.  I got sucked into an argument last night via text (I should know better) and she ended up blocking my number after engaging in some name calling.  Just when I thought it couldn't get worse... .   

[Meili]

I know that it feels like it is getting worse, but I believe that you are actually making things better by recognizing your limits and doing what you need to do to take care of yourself.   

We can lay the foundation, but we can't drag them along kicking and screaming. So, all that we can do is take care of ourselves.

[livednlearned]

Wow. That's a lot to deal with at once, bestintentions. Very painful, and very fast-moving, and it's clear you love her and want her to be well.

From what I understand, in the face of feeling powerful negative feelings (invalidation, shame), many BPD sufferers will impulsively seek validation to avoid dealing with painful feelings. Lacking the scaffolds and skills to process what and why, they will do anything to cope. It sounds like your wife is seeking validation with new partners as a way to cope, putting her health and yours at risk, not to mention the people she is engaging.

Raising the specter of divorce may shame and overwhelm her more, which may drive her to repeat the offending behavior, as though she is sabotaging the relationship.

I understand you feel the need to protect yourself and if you are done, you are done. Even so, change on her part is something that will take time and it's not likely that an ultimatum (divorce) will work.

Have you thought about a therapeutic separation?

Does she show any desire to remain in the marriage, any tender cycles?

[bestintentions]

I had unfortunately been the only one to make regular contact and express desire to remain married with any meat behind it - but in all honesty I never went more than 4 days without contacting her, so I'm not sure if there would have been a tender cycle at some point.  When I would talk about therapy, she was always visibly torn.  I believe she knows therapy is the correct choice to make but, as you alluded to, she's currently making the easy choice instead.  She's never shown true remorse... .I just got tired of being the only one chasing this phantom of reconciliation.  For my own sanity I had to get her to sign the papers.

Any questioning of her behavior is immediate grounds for silence and, looking back over the last 25 years, I just avoided it because I didn't think it was worth it.  Now it's all too clear.

On therapeutic separation... .I think the reason I pushed so hard while the iron was hot was because I knew that the more partners she engaged, the more impossible it would be to ever trust or want to have a romantic relationship with her.  Thanks for the reply! 

[bestintentions]

I know this was not a good idea for several reasons, but we had sex again.  For the first time she said something afterwards that could be construed as meaningful... ."I want to be with you but I don't know how".  Since I'm dealing with someone with BPD... .it may not be anything meaningful at all.

[once removed]

hi bestintentions,

its very meaningful if you take it at face value. shes communicating to you her limits (at least for now). how did you reply?

[bestintentions]

It was right before I had to leave for work.  I will ask her and report back.

[once removed]

I will ask her and report back.

this might be a good opportunity to use validation. shes been vulnerable and honest here (this is something you want to encourage), and may have trouble being more specific if pressed. have you had the opportunity to read about the communication tools like validation on the right?

a good example here might be something like: "i can imagine that must feel very conflicting."

[bestintentions]

I lose again.  After yesterday morning, there was no contact from her all day.  Days ago she had blocked my text messages because I sternly asked her to complete the job of removing the rest of her stuff out of the house... .she said not only would she unblock me but she was going to tell me about how a job interview went.  Nothing.  I should know better by now.

[bestintentions]

Any suggestions out there about helping to convince a spouse to seek therapy would be welcomed.  She has admitted that she knows she needs help. 

It's pretty clear that my idea of a romantic relationship with her is dead at this point.

[VitaminC]

Bestintentions, you're in a very tough place and I feel for you.

I'm impressed with how calm and rational you sound - these kinds of revelations and developments are incredibly disorienting, not to speak of painful.

It seems you're trying really hard to ' do the right thing ' by your wife. To help her move from the spiral she appears to be in to a calmer place of healthier choices and actions.

We can't do more than suggest that and offer some guidance or support, however. The rest is up to the other.

After years of being an enabler, if that's your reading of yourself, maybe you need to really focus on yourself for a while and let your wife figure things out.

What are you doing to put focus on *you* ?
 
You've a long history together and that's not easy to untangle, I get that. My own experience and feeling is that the sooner you begin to separate your own needs & wants from hers, the better.

Any ideas on how you can do that?

Wishing you calm.
  

[bestintentions]

VitaminC - thank you for the reply.  The answer to your question about what I'm doing for me is "not enough".  I do have ideas on how to separate but I feel obligated (I know this isn't a good thing) to exhaust positive methods and any pull I may still have with her to get her into therapy.  I fear for her physical safety at this point, and it would be difficult to forgive myself should something bad happen.  I know that's not necessarily rational and definitely not under my control but it's where I'm at.

I think the reason I appear calm is that after this many years with her... .I knew I was overlooking some kind if behavioral problem, but not to this degree.  While I still cry daily and have pangs for her, as more time passes I'm gaining a little more insight and perspective.  I'm definitely capable of making bad decisions at this point and I'm trying to stay cognizant of that.

[VitaminC]

I do have ideas on how to separate but I feel obligated (I know this isn't a good thing) to exhaust positive methods and any pull I may still have with her to get her into therapy.  I fear for her physical safety at this point, and it would be difficult to forgive myself should something bad happen.  I know that's not necessarily rational and definitely not under my control but it's where I'm at.

Ok, hey, I think very many of us can relate to watching someone we love ruin themselves and even fearing for their well-being. Loving someone and being enabling, god it's a fine line sometimes, isn't it. Particularly when it's a relationship of many years - it feels as if the person has been a part of your history for so long, that they are part of your identity, part of you. Which they are, in a way.

Really deeply loving someone over many years is different to the bright and burny blaze that many experience with the pwBPD. One is a very deep lake, perhaps, and the other a ... .pond? It depends. But they're both water, they'll both get you wet, they can both be wonderfully refreshing and life-giving, and probably in both of them one could drown.

So we're trying to make sure no one drowns.

Have you read through this, Best? https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-to-get-borderline-into-therapy

I'm definitely capable of making bad decisions at this point and I'm trying to stay cognizant of that.

Good. Ok, you can work with that. What would be a "bad decision"? What would be a good one? Give us an example of each?
Let's see if you can do a little more for yourself, since you say you are not doing enough. 

[bestintentions]

I did read through the link you posted and watched the video.  Been NC for a few days which is probably for the best.  I got something from my doctor to help my sleep which has been darn good the last two nights as I believe I hadn't slept more than 3 hours a night for the last month.  The last two days I had felt stronger until some trigger happened this afternoon and I fell into deep pangs for her which eventually subsided.
 
During our last time together I felt we were finally getting somewhere.  I asked her if she was just tired of living this web of deceit and lies over the last 5 years and if she wanted to unload on me and finally start anew to love and forgive herself, that I'd be strong enough to take it.  I know more about her than anyone on the planet and I'd be willing to help her into treatment and be there throughout her (hopefully) recovery.  I've proven to her that I can be trusted.  My hopes raised greatly when she revealed the names of the men she's had sex with which she was keeping from me until then.  Shortly after - she finally said she was tired of talking about it and that it needed to stop.  I asked one question - "When can we discuss this further?".  That turned into a full blown dysregulation episode which ended up the night with a fight unfortunately - hence the current NC.

Anyone reading this thread - have you or anyone you're aware of gone on to a successful reconciliation after something like I've gone through where the BPD partner recovered to the point where they started to appreciate you?  Even if it was over a year?  When I picture the length of time that it will take to make any sort of progress that I'd deem worthy of trusting her again... .I admit... .it doesn't look good.  Each day I'm trying to be a little more prepared to move on alone, but also expecting that she may contact me at some point with romantic interest as well and the best way to handle it if it does.