Do their believe in their rubbish?

[Indyan]

So I got the psychologist's report ordered by the judge.

Ex denies everything and was forced into everything, including moving in with me, having a baby and staying with me for 2 years.

He accused me of "kicking him in his genitals and punching him while throwing him to the floor" (at 7 months pregnant!)

It's simple : nothing he tells is true!

It's shocking and I can't help wondering if he believes in his own sh*t

[Teereese]

  Indyan

Yes. He truly believes it.

You can offer proof to uncover his lies but he will still believe in them.

Scary

[Panda39]

 Indyan

Yes. He truly believes it.

You can offer proof to uncover his lies but he will still believe in them.

Scary

Yep, Feelings = Facts

There is also some projection here too.  He treats you badly so he projects that you treat him badly... .or even worse than he treated you. 

Panda39

[rarsweet]

My ex filed a restraining order against me when my daughter was 7 weeks old and took off with her. He actually told the judge that on July 26 in the evening I flew out of my chair and assaulted him, while I was nursing on one side and pumping on the other. I was so enraged the pump cord wrapped around my daughter's neck. That was his story. When I pointed out to the judge that I had a c-section 4 days before and I wouldn't be flying out of any chairs and brought the medical records proving I was actually at the hospital having a lactation consultation that evening the judge dismissed it. But ya he really thought he could sell that story.

[Indyan]

Hi,

thank you so much for your replies, it's very touching.

All this has been extremely disturbing to the kids and myself. I've been dating a new guy for a couple of months (after a lonely year and a half... .) and he says he's really shocked. It's obvious that I am a calm and caring person, and particularly against any kind of violence.

I manage to care less and less about his lies, which are constantly renewed. The thing that scares me though is that someone (the judge for starters) believes him.

He's changed so much, it's freaky 

[KaishaMikasa]

I don't know whether to hope you are wrong or right about them believing their lies.  On one hand I can deal with good old fashioned manipulation but the thought of them being that out of touch with reality is disturbing. She hit me with a story that I had sent out a "slanderous" message on FB the previous Friday.  However,  it did coincide with her not paying rent any longer.  She then spent the next day beating me down with lies and manipulation attempts.  I was mean and kept answering with "lie", "projection" rationalization, etc.  I hope she knows that she is full of it because if not she is sicker than I thought.

[rarsweet]

Lol mine said that I was wishy washy, sending him friend's requests, and then blocking him, over and over. This was after a year of not even having Facebook because he knew my password and deleted my account when we split up. I didn't make another account for 15 months. All because his sister friended me when I made a new account. He convinced her to block me because I must be spying on him. They live 2 hours apart and don't even see each other so what could I spy on? I just thought his sister could at least see pics of her niece. And funny thing is the woman friend he lives with friended me. Funny thing is she has nothing about him on her FB.

[ForeverDad]

My stance is that it's a little bit of both... .maybe they really do believe it... .but they also know how to weave their way through all their lies and allegations... .how else can they keep track of all their claims and stories if not that they're aware of the lies at some level?

In short, their perceptions are distorted and sadly they often have no compunction against lying and sabotaging.  So it often boils down to Self.  All for one and one for... .one.

And we may never be sure how much is disconnected crazy and how much is cunning strategy.

I see a risk here, that if we try to imagine that they don't realize what they're doing, then we may be willing to stay or to place ourselves back into harm's way.  That's sheer lunacy if ours is one of the more dangerous relationships.  If they were only floundering around, flailing about trying to survive, we would be inclined to stick around and keep trying endlessly.  But many are controllers, active schemers, slick manipulators, we can't risk staying or going back into the Danger Zone.

[Turkish]

Indyan,

Here is some stuff from UTBM which I recently quoted on Detaching. Maybe it can help:

The thing is that we can't just turn around and dump it on our exes with BPD just because.  It turns out the second time around that your ex was just a cheating, lying female dog.  Be mad at her for that, but that isn't a BPD issue as much as it is her being a crummy girlfriend.

I am a little confused with this matter... .yes lying and cheating is a choice for people with BPD as it is for people with no mental health issues. However, the cause of their lying and cheating doesn't also have to do with the core characteristics of their disorder? I kind of think that the extend of their lying and cheating (for those who do engage in these kinds of behavior) are to a great extend driven by their inner conflicts.  

Christine Ann Lawson PhD, in Understanding The Borderline Mother, comments:



Distortion is an unconscious way of processing information that reflects the individual's reality.

This falls into the category of perceptual distortions, such as false accusations of abuse.

Lawson goes on:

Some borderlines consciously distort the truth in order to prevent abandonment, maintain self-esteem, or avoid conflict. Others may lie to evoke sympathy, attention and concern.

Here I would say that this is little different than what motivates people to lie in general  

Yet:

From the borderline's perspective, however, lying feels essential to survival... . (emphasis mine)

Where we as "nons" may have trouble understanding is what's behind this, and how it's related to the disorder.

... .(Although not all borderlines consciously lie, all borderlines experience perceptional distortions.) When desperation drives behavior such as lying or stealing, they feel innocent of wrongdoing and do not feel guilt or remorse, Aplogies are rare, therefore, and borderlines may be confused about why others expect them to feel remorse. They believe that others would do what they did in order to survive. Their explanation is succinct, "But I had to!" Thus the borderline is unconcerned with the consequences of lying... .