Repeating patterns

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

So many patterns I've been repeating -- I feel almost like a windup doll. The chaos, the gaslighting (we all had to pretend my mother's rages didn't exist), the narcissicism, having parents whose emotional needs came first, middle and last.

Thinking back, too many of the people I've been with either have been emotionally unavailable (the quiet was a relief after the overprotectiveness, drama and emotional lability of home) or married -- at least to begin with -- or both. Although there was no physical or sexual abuse, my father turned to me for his emotional needs and to protect him against my mother. I got in the habit of "saving" unhappily married men from their awful spouses (yes, I am aware of how F#%@* it sounds). My pwBPD is separated, but not as separated as he led me to believe.

Anyway, now I look on married men not as rescue projects or challenges, but as people to keep far away from. I've learned some self-protection -- which actually I feel guilt over (putting myself first). Likewise, emotionally unavailable people.

For those of you out there who recognize your patterns and do not repeat them, are you able to be interested in healthy, normal, caring, available people? I'm worried that I'll find them boring or miss the drama or still confuse pain and turmoil and rejection for love... .

[Narkiss]

So many patterns I've been repeating -- I feel almost like a windup doll. The chaos, the gaslighting (we all had to pretend my mother's rages didn't exist), the narcissicism, having parents whose emotional needs came first, middle and last.

Thinking back, too many of the people I've been with either have been emotionally unavailable (the quiet was a relief after the overprotectiveness, drama and emotional lability of home) or married -- at least to begin with -- or both. Although there was no physical or sexual abuse, my father turned to me for his emotional needs and to protect him against my mother. I got in the habit of "saving" unhappily married men from their awful spouses (yes, I am aware of how F#%@* it sounds). My pwBPD is separated, but not as separated as he led me to believe.

Anyway, now I look on married men not as rescue projects or challenges, but as people to keep far away from. I've learned some self-protection -- which actually I feel guilt over (putting myself first). Likewise, emotionally unavailable people.

For those of you out there who recognize your patterns and do not repeat them, are you able to be interested in healthy, normal, caring, available people? I'm worried that I'll find them boring or miss the drama or still confuse pain and turmoil and rejection for love... .

[unicorn2014]

Hi Narkiss, I can totally relate, except for the fact I've only had 2 serious relationships in my life: my marriage, and the one i have now with a separated man who still hasn't gotten a divorce.

For me the repeating pattern is the volatility, the criticism, the cutting remarks. My first husband and my father could both make very snide, cutting remarks.

The question is, how can we take care of ourselves in these situations?

[misuniadziubek]

So many patterns I've been repeating -- I feel almost like a windup doll. The chaos, the gaslighting (we all had to pretend my mother's rages didn't exist), the narcissicism, having parents whose emotional needs came first, middle and last.

Thinking back, too many of the people I've been with either have been emotionally unavailable (the quiet was a relief after the overprotectiveness, drama and emotional lability of home) or married -- at least to begin with -- or both. Although there was no physical or sexual abuse, my father turned to me for his emotional needs and to protect him against my mother. I got in the habit of "saving" unhappily married men from their awful spouses (yes, I am aware of how F#%@* it sounds). My pwBPD is separated, but not as separated as he led me to believe.

It doesn't sound fukced up at all. It sounds like you spent your childhood taking care of your parent(s) and ignoring your own needs. Having needs of your own wasn't safe and if you ever expressed them you'd risk rejection, so you focused on taking care of others.

It's a self-serving behavior.  By saving others and basically being a caretaker of emotions, you perpetuate self-abandonment, the ideal that you don't need, and in the process you give to others what you need yourself. In effect, you are trying to gain recognition or reward for your caretaking, in my case, I equated that recognition to love.

I did this for pretty much the entire first year and a half with my pwBPD without even realising what I was really doing.

Anyway, now I look on married men not as rescue projects or challenges, but as people to keep far away from. I've learned some self-protection -- which actually I feel guilt over (putting myself first). Likewise, emotionally unavailable people.

Progress is progress. And that's huge. You should be proud of yourself.

When you spend your life protecting others and caretaking, it feels VERY unnatural to look out for yourself. It's actually something you have to desensitize yourself to. You never got to complete that milestone in childhood where you learn to express boundaries and recognize yourself as a separate person with ... .*cough* needs. You will feel guilt, perhaps for a long time. I've been self-protective for a good couple of months now and I still feel SO MUCH guilt. But I keep ignoring it. Maybe one day I can embrace it.

For those of you out there who recognize your patterns and do not repeat them, are you able to be interested in healthy, normal, caring, available people? I'm worried that I'll find them boring or miss the drama or still confuse pain and turmoil and rejection for love... .

To cease repeating patterns is pretty much a process of rewiring your brain to switch to new habits. Habits are self-perpetuating. It's your brain's comfort zone. If anyone has broken a habit like that, it's through YEARS of work and possibly therapy.

Honestly? From personal experience, the more time you spend recognizing UNHEALTHY behaviours, (and hopefully stopping them in their tracks)  the more you start to acknowledge and appreciate HEALTHY behaviours. I've taken a stance of gratitude. When my pwBPD does something that is loving, considerate and helpful, or is validating towards me, I reward him with A LOT of appreciation. And with time he's started to do the same for me. And THAT feels amazing.

But that actually extends way further into my healthy relationships with people who don't have PD's than anything. I am very respectful of other people and I REQUIRE them to show me the same respect. In fact, more often than not I advocate for others to set boundaries and limits in their relationships when I see something going awry.

So to answer your question, no. When you truly understand the differences between healthy and unhealthy interpersonal behaviours, you start to weed out negative and toxic people very quickly and find greater pleasure in healthy relationships.

The addiction to drama is a reaction to growing up with that drama. It takes a while, and with adequate self-care and skill-building you will crave less and less drama and you will name non-loving behaviors right away and advocate for yourself.

To give some anecdotal backstory, I was with a very safe, stable, boring person for a year. This was before all this self-work. And yeah, I missed the drama. The drama fueled passion for me back then so it's not surprising I left that person for my pwBPD. And for the longest time I felt shame over that. I left someone who treated me well for someone who is emotionally abusive and volatile.

Okay, but it's not actually that at all. That person I was with, I was only with them because they were safe and not at all because I was interested. The chemistry was barely there and I wasn't even attracted to them. And now looking back at some of their behaviours, they were actually far worse as a partner than my pwBPD.  It wasn't a healthy relationship at all.

If you seek a truly healthy relationship with someone, they will not bore you. They will support you, enable you to become a better version of yourself and they will be your safe haven. If you find them boring or feel like you miss the drama, it just means you aren't with someone that is compatible. The more you take care of yourself and improve upon your mental health, the more healthy people you will attract.

My two cents.

[HurtinNW]

So many patterns I've been repeating -- I feel almost like a windup doll. The chaos, the gaslighting (we all had to pretend my mother's rages didn't exist), the narcissicism, having parents whose emotional needs came first, middle and last.

Thinking back, too many of the people I've been with either have been emotionally unavailable (the quiet was a relief after the overprotectiveness, drama and emotional lability of home) or married -- at least to begin with -- or both. Although there was no physical or sexual abuse, my father turned to me for his emotional needs and to protect him against my mother. I got in the habit of "saving" unhappily married men from their awful spouses (yes, I am aware of how F#%@* it sounds). My pwBPD is separated, but not as separated as he led me to believe.

Anyway, now I look on married men not as rescue projects or challenges, but as people to keep far away from. I've learned some self-protection -- which actually I feel guilt over (putting myself first). Likewise, emotionally unavailable people.

For those of you out there who recognize your patterns and do not repeat them, are you able to be interested in healthy, normal, caring, available people? I'm worried that I'll find them boring or miss the drama or still confuse pain and turmoil and rejection for love... .

Thank you for your honesty. I'm in the process of recognizing my patterns. This is an embarrassing one: I pick men I think I have the upper hand over. Men whom I think are so devoted to me they won't leave. Men who let me be the boss. In trade, I've overlooked heavy drinking, massively irresponsible behavior, and in one case marital status. In my mind I am thinking, if I accept their bad traits they will have to accept me, because I am bad and damaged and unworthy.

Of course it didn't work that way at all with my ex. His devotion turned out to be fleeting, and he didn't accept my struggles at all. And the devotion of my prior relationship was based on me accepting his drinking and irresponsibility. That isn't what devotion is about.

I have had perfectly nice men interested in me, and I just haven't been interested back. I am scared they will learn the real me and abandon me. It is one thing to have someone who is messed up abandon you. It is another to have a healthy person abandon you. There is a part of me that will assume it is because I am too messed up. 

I'm hopeful that when I get to a healthier place I will have enough self worth to not be intimidated by the concept of rejection. I also hope to get to a place where I can take comfort in a relationship that is not founded on dysfunction.

[Narkiss]

It's really scary. I had a vague idea that I went after unavailable men and hated what I saw as neediness, but it's horrifying for me that I've been repeating these patterns over and over again. I thought I had just put the past behind me and shut a door.

misuniadziubek: When I was a child, I didn't know that I had needs, much less ones that parents should respect. I had no idea what a good marriage should look like or feel like, so I didn't respect others' and I didn't really understood what held people together -- despite being married myself (and I never expressed needs in either marriage. I have good friends -- and those relationships are healthy. I'm not a doormat, but I feel guilty putting myself first in a romantic relationship. (I'd rather be hurt myself). I do all kinds of things to help my pwBPD (the latest was calling in favors to get on him a museum board I am on, because it would help him professionally -- although honestly I don't know if I really wanted to do that). And he does little for me. When I feel that I just want to end it with him, I feel so guilty that I wind up calling him and being sweet and loving (which is really the opposite of what I feel deep down).

Unicorn2014: I have no idea how to take care of myself. I heard from my pwBPD a week ago. He texted that he loved me. I responded, then sent him an email the following day. Haven't heard back. It's all I can do not to call him. I do not know how to be in contact with him and take care of myself. I get so hurt.

HurtinNW: I think I find men that don't have as many choices -- and that I can have the upper hand also. Because maybe if they did, I wouldn't be good enough for them to choose me. I also feel that if I accept them, then they will accept me. Maybe I'm giving them what I want to receive -- but they are damaged people, so they're incapable of it. My pwBPD seemed so besotted with me at first that I almost pitied him. Then as I fell for him, I thought that he would have to stay with me because no one else would put up with him (didn't consider his wife).

I would like a real partnership with someone, but honestly don't know if I'd even know how... .

[HurtinNW]

I also thought my ex would have to stay with me because no one else would put up with him. Of course he didn't see it that way.

One of my big realizations during this last recycle was we were like two kids in first grade, both invited to a party. I was bringing the gift I wanted, thinking he would like it. He was bringing the gift he wanted, thinking it was what I wanted too.

My gift to him (what I wanted) was closeness, consistency, reliability, safety, trust, and someone who needed him. All these things are what I want. But to him these gifts were intensely threatening, engulfing and scary. For him they were not gifts at all.  

His gift to me (what he wanted) was distance, lack of demands, lack of pressure, lack of enmeshment. These are things he wants. But to me those gifts are profoundly threatening, abandoning and scary. For me they were not gifts at all.

Both of us got angry and disappointed that each other didn't like our gifts. We were unable to communicate around them. Frankly I think I did a better job trying, but still, were both brought our childhood hurts to how we felt our gifts were rejected.  

[Narkiss]

HurtinNW that is such a beautiful and perceptive way to see it. I gave him love and acceptance and stability and consistency and understanding. I tried to help him accomplish what he said he wanted to accomplish and share with him the best things I could. And he felt engulfed and threatened and just made him feel envious and that his life was dysfunctional. And he would tell me I'm beautiful and wonderful and bright -- which are nice to hear but not what I need. I need what I gave to him. I also think he is pretty narcissistic at heart and puts a strong priority on his wants and needs, so sometimes he sees me as a gift to him, but not as a real person. His inconsistency panics me and terrifies me. I feel rejected (although I don't think he intends to make me feel that way). They evoke feelings that are so strong and so irrational and i am trying to figure out where they come from.

[HurtinNW]

Narkiss, have we been dating the same man? 

My ex also lavished me with praise, when painting me white. That was one of the gifts he wanted: to be lavished with verbal praise. I liked it but it was not what I really needed, especially when it turned so easily to abuse. I was able to give praise but there is a lot he wants I cannot give. At times I have thought "I can do that!" But I can't, because one thing my ex wants more than anything is to not be wanted.

Inconsistency also makes me panic. It is very important to me to be able to trust people will be there, and that they will follow through. I know in my case this comes from being raised in severe neglect. My mother was often drunk and passed out on the couch, failing to feed us. Her lack of reliability meant I was exposed to pedophiles and other horrible things. Our life was full of criminals, chaos, and abuse.

I remember early in our relationship my ex got mad and stormed off, leaving me standing in the kitchen, hearing his tires squeal. I vividly remember the feelings of absolute panic that set in. At the time I was lucky to have an insight, and later I told him how terrifying it is for me to have someone storm off in anger. I related to him how when I was about five my older brother simply disappeared. For days I wandered our inner city streets, looking for him. My mom was drunk and passed out all the time. I will never forget those days of terror. My brother was gone! Finally my mother sobered up enough find out a friend had come taken him because of her drinking. No one bothered to tell me and my mother didn't much care. Anyhow, I related to my ex how having someone "disappear" on me is profoundly terrifying and sets up panic. Unfortunately, the sympathy he felt was short-lived, and he soon resumed his habit of storming off and leaving me... .in parks, in bars, on streets.

Now I could feel angry about that, and I do, but the question for myself is why I kept engaging. Over and over again I was triggered, and over and over again I sought the source of the trigger, trying to make the ending different.

Now that I am thinking of this, I realize how I never had a chance to grieve for that child self, wandering the streets, looking for her brother. How sad for her. How sad for your child self, wanting consistency and not getting it. I am sure there is a reason why you have those strong feelings, and you will find them.   

[unicorn2014]

Narkiss, that is a very powerful statement, you don't know how to be in contact with him and not hurt yourself. Very strong boundaries is how. What kind of boundaries have you defined for yourself thus far?

[letmeout]

Wow, HurtinNW, just simply wow. I have no other words, very well put!

[Grey Kitty]

It's really scary. I had a vague idea that I went after unavailable men and hated what I saw as neediness, but it's horrifying for me that I've been repeating these patterns over and over again. I thought I had just put the past behind me and shut a door.

[... .]

I would like a real partnership with someone, but honestly don't know if I'd even know how... .

You are finding the unhealthy patterns in your romantic relationships. Great progress toward avoiding them going forward. However just going for "anything different" in your next romantic relationship is obviously risky... .here is something else you might look at:

Look at other relationships in your life -- friends, family, co-workers, bosses, employees who report to you (if any), etc.

Do you see any similar unhealthy patterns that run though many of them?

And do you see any shining stars among them--relationships that don't have your 'normal' unhealthy patterns?

[Narkiss]

Yes, HurtinNW, they do sound like the same guy (I think they're even about the same age), but I have found several guys described here that sound scarily like mine. One was so close that I almost sent a pm to make sure. I go back to him over and over (doing my best to keep from doing it again right now) also in unrealistic hopes that it will end differently -- and it doesn't. It never does. Then I think I can handle it -- and I can't and I think there is something wrong with me.

Whenever I have set boundaries, the relationship ends for a time. I can express my feelings and I know he understands, but he can't handle his feelings that he has done something wrong and so instead of resolving problems -- even simple ones -- everything falls apart. I'm scared me to even bring them up because I know I'm setting myself up for abandonment. At least for a while, until he misses me or I reach out to him, and even if we talk carefully about what happened, the same thing will happen again. Which is why I'm doing my best not to contact him and I'm very ambivalent that he is not calling me.

Grey Kitty. Interestingly, I have wonderful friends and good, healthy relationships with them. I hold family members at arms' length. I am fine with people I have supervised, but generally had dysfunctional relationships with supervisors. Somehow I have found bosses with really bad boundaries or I'd have trouble with their authority. Either I become scared to express any contradictory opinion and become an obedient little worker bee (I would feel terrified of getting fired if I stepped out of line in the slightest) or resent their authority. Probably another pattern. Very scary. It's almost like I have no free will at all.

[Grey Kitty]

Narkiss, given your description of your parents, keeping family at a distance sounds healthy to me.

The reason I asked about other relationships is to suggest you look at the things you see in the good ones... .and think about how you can build those into your other more troubled relationships (Romantic and bosses).

I'm not clear on your current romantic status, but it sounds like you are either committed to stay with the same guy for now, or are taking a break... .not actively dating, so perhaps that part can be set aside for a little bit.

Obviously, your ability to choose a new and healthier boss is kinda limited, although you may have to do it sometime.

Being afraid to disagree or confront your boss on anything sounds like a natural recipe for you feeling resentment about your boss--those two fit together like hand in glove.

The interesting question is whether you are afraid for good reason, and your boss is actually a micromanaging abusive jerk on a power trip who will make sure you are punished if not fired for any questioning of your bosses' total authority over you?

... .or is it a dance that you play a part in as much as your boss does?

Good boundaries and boundary enforcement can be applied in the workplace too. While you may not be able to make everything better, you probably can do some things to improve the dynamic over time. Do you want help/support in trying it?

[anon72]

Misuniadziubek, I just wanted to say that I can totally relate to your last example.

After dating emotionally unavailable/abusive types of women for a long time, I finally chose someone safe.  The only problem was she was extremely boring, didn't meet my needs and we were not really compatible.  However, I kept going back to her whenever I felt lonely or broke up with someone - which was exceptionally unfair (of course).  And yes, I definitely agree that "safe" is not synonymous with compatible - and I didn't realize that until I broke up with this ex-girlfriend who was "safe".

Also, your comment about:  "The more you take care of yourself and improve upon your mental health, the more healthy people you will attract" struck home.  That is definitely what I am aiming at, and am having time off relationships until I have significantly improved my meantal health.

Thank you for sharing  

Narkiss, I definitely can relate to what you are saying, I also feel like a wind-up doll.  However, I am working like crazy on my unhealthy habits and patterns, and will do whatever it takes to get past them.  And am sure you are doing the same.  You will get there!

Regarding being attracted to healthy, caring & normal people in the future, I sure hope so - that is what I am aiming for.  I would say that it is extremely positive that we recognize our repeating patterns, so that we can avoid them (hopefully) in the future.  That is my aim, I plan to be very deliberate about any relationships for the future - as that is the only way I can imagine myself being happy in a future relationship.

[Narkiss]

Grey Kitty: Yes, in some ways healthy, but in other ways unhealthy. My sister and I are not close -- For no special reason, other than i think we trigger painful memories in each other.

Right now, I freelance so I don't have a boss -- just clients and that is a different dynamic. With the bosses, though, I never worked out a balanced power dynamic. My relationship status is up in the air. I am married but separated and very likely getting a divorce. My husband was diagnosed with Obsessive-Compulsive PD, which has gotten worse over time. We were good friends in college, so I have known him more than half my life. I accommodated him for far too long until I finally stopped, which upset the apple cart.

About my pwBPD, I love him and would like to be with him, but I can't see it working out. He is married and not as separated from his wife as he told me. The plan was that they would take care of some financial and estate issues (they live in different states) and get divorced. That has not happened yet. Somehow his wife is taking care of his elderly father in her house -- again supposed to be temporary. I have gone out of my way to help him with some job issues. He accepted the help gratefully, but did not follow up. I think he cares very much about me but has strong narc qualities. I talked to him about 10 days ago and was really upset about something else. The next day, I txted him to apologize that I was so overwrought. He txted back that it's ok and he loves me. On Tuesday I emailed to follow up on the job help. Haven't heard from him since. I wake up aching for him. But I don't call, because it may just cause more pain in the long run. So, I guess I'm taking a break and trying to decide what to do. I don't really want to date anyone else right now.

And yes, I really need help and support with boundary enforcement. I feel guilty.

[Grey Kitty]

I think that feeling guilty about enforcing boundaries is pretty common. I've not got the full story of your childhood, but I've got a pretty good guess here:

You were trained as a child that you didn't get to have boundaries, that your parent(s) could blast right over your boundaries, and were made to feel terribly guilty if you even tried to stop them.

I love this very long, very detailed essay on boundaries--it starts with the basics, and gets to some very subtle and advanced boundary issues. Perhaps reading it will help you. (I find the drawings, imagery, and analogies really charming too!)

www.alturtle.com/archives/173

It sounds like you have two romantic relationships / post-romantic relationships / (whatever)... .

Both of them have big issues, and both guys try to cross your boundaries, and both don't like it if you defend your boundaries.



... .as a freelancer, do you have good relationships and good boundaries with clients?

[SurfNTurf]

Good reading on this thread.

Narkiss, I married my father. Three times. I'm half a century old, my therapist taught me what was said in this thread - my parents ran over my boundaries. All the time. I was groomed by them to seek and settle for pwBPD, and I do that very well. Putting aside a moment the whole idea of doing self work to attain better skills/judgement, I instead stay w/my BPDh because (1) he has a mental health condition he didn't cause it any more than I caused my part in this play, (2) if I left, I would - unintentionally - end up with another one. I prefer at this point in my life to dance with the devil I know. I spend alot of time in women's groups at my church for the fellowhsip and the support, the socialization that makes me feel human.

Be kind to yourself. You were groomed for this too, its a long journey to self care.

[Narkiss]

Grey Kitty -- Yes, I have good relationships with clients, interestingly because the boundaries are pretty defined (project x is due on this date) and we are friendly in a professional way without being too personal. I am not worried about a client firing me (abandoning me), because I have others. Right now I have more work than I can handle.

In both relationships, the guys (husband and pwBPD) have tremendously high boundaries but do not respect my boundaries or needs. When I do, the pwBPD disappears and the separated husband just does entirely what he wants (and I went along with it -- so I wound up living in a community I didn't want to live in, a house I don't like, park on the street so he can park in the garage). I think I married the husband because we were good friends from college and I knew he'd never leave me. I remember thinking explicitly about that -- that when were 50, I would not be traded in for a younger model.

It was unthinkable to protest when I was a child. I would just become angry and resentful and sullen -- and subversive -- and try to please even harder.

SurfNTurf -- Shortly before my father died from a brain tumor, he told me that I shouldn't marry my boyfriend (later husband). He told me that I should marry someone like him! The funny thing is that the husband turned out to be a lot like him.

[Grey Kitty]

In both relationships, the guys (husband and pwBPD) have tremendously high boundaries but do not respect my boundaries or needs.

It isn't anybody else's job to respect your boundaries.

It is your job to defend your boundaries from anybody who tries to cross them. (And as you said, you were trained NOT to do this as a child, so it is a very hard lesson for you to learn now)

Of course, people who have good boundaries and don't even try to cross yours are easier to deal with than boundary-busters like your exh and pwBPD.

[Narkiss]

Question: So how do I create appropriate boundaries and defend them appropriately?

[Grey Kitty]

How to defend your boundaries is a big topic. So is how to identify your boundaries. I say identify because I believe that your boundaries all exist, even if you are letting somebody blow past them time after time, so creating them doesn't apply.

If you find yourself really angry at somebody or resentful of them, that is most likely telling you that you let them roll over your boundaries. (You may find yourself angry more for the last 100 times they went over that boundary than the latest time... .)

I've worked on them myself, and helped a bunch of people sort it out... .and I find it more effective or useful to deal with a specific bit of boundary busting behavior than to give a general answer... .so if you have a good example, I'd be happy to work through what you can do on it.

For general answers, I do like this essay on boundaries a lot... .and it is way longer than anything I'm going to type up tonight... .

www.alturtle.com/archives/173

[eeks]

If you find yourself really angry at somebody or resentful of them, that is most likely telling you that you let them roll over your boundaries. (You may find yourself angry more for the last 100 times they went over that boundary than the latest time... .)

I would like to add that if your anger was shamed or punished enough times growing up, you may not even be aware of it.  I think of how quickly my mother forfeits her own interests in certain types of conflict situations.  You may have other cues like anxiety, shame or discomfort, or rationalization ("I can let this one slide, it's no big deal" and have to carefully review the interaction in your mind after it occurs to spot that brief "spike" of anger that tells you something's up.

[Narkiss]

Yes, I will have a momentary spike of... .something (anger, irritation, impatience). Then I immediately feel guilty or like I'm being unfair or that I have to try harder, and either smash through my boundaries or let someone smash through mine. I have pretty good boundaries except in romantic relationships. But then again, none of my friends try to take advantage.

Grey Kitty: So here are two boundary issues I really need help with.

1) PwBPD is married, but separated -- kind of. They live in different states. They plan to get a divorce. Don't know if they will actually go through with it. It's certainly not as imminent as it sounds. He goes there once or twice a month. For the last month, his wife has been taking care of his father who has Alzheimer's. That has become the latest excuse. We have not had an honest discussion about what is going on. He told me has does not love her, feels sorry and responsible for her. I believe that. But they are also enmeshed. Anyway, it makes me feel pretty crummy to be in a relationship with someone who is married.

2. PwBPD has repeatedly said he would come and visit -- and doesn't. At first, it was ok. Then it really began upsetting me, because I go visit him -- or he has come to see me when he is in town for work. Last night, he said he will come in a week or so. He apologized for not coming before (he never apologizes, so that was something). If he does not, what should I do? All these broken promises have become a trigger for me.

Last night, he was in crisis about a work issue. I spoke to him gently and supportively and he responded with a lot of love and gratitude and affection. The thing is his feelings seem to flip pretty quickly, although they seem to have gotten more consistent, so I have no idea if he will follow through or not.

[Grey Kitty]

Yes, I will have a momentary spike of... .something (anger, irritation, impatience). Then I immediately feel guilty or like I'm being unfair or that I have to try harder, and either smash through my boundaries or let someone smash through mine.

I think that feeling of guilt is worth further examination, especially at the time. Can you let yourself simply FEEL guilty, or that you are being unfair... .without actually acting to make it better?

Training yourself to enforce your boundaries can be a long job. Be patient with yourself, and understand that it will feel unnatural and uncomfortable some times, especially at first... .even when you know it is the right thing to do.

You picked two issues that do not have easy fixes with boundary enforcement. In both those cases, you want different behavior than this person is providing. If you try to force them to behave differently, you would be pushing past their boundaries, rather than defending your own.

The actual boundary you can enforce in these cases is that you will not stay in a relationship with somebody who treats you this way, or that you will change the form of the relationship to one which works for you with these limits. Those are very hard choices and hard boundaries to enforce.

(In contrast to a boundary against being called rude names--you can end the conversation if you are called a name. That is very clean and effective boundary enforcement. I would call that easy.)

1) PwBPD is married, but separated -- kind of. They live in different states.

His marital status and his relationship with his wife is his choice. You have to accept him as he is. Given the history, it is pretty clear that the story he tells you (he doesn't love her and will divorce soon) isn't matching his actions. I'd suggest you stop asking, and stop believing statements. (I'll guess that his words to his wife most likely do not quite match either his actions OR his words to you on the subject)

But they are also enmeshed. Anyway, it makes me feel pretty crummy to be in a relationship with someone who is married.

You have to figure out if you can tolerate either of these things--That he is still married, or that he is enmeshed with his wife. (If they finish the divorce, the enmeshment will likely continue!)

You may find that you can tolerate these things, but only with a much-reduced relationship with him. Hard choices on your part.

2. PwBPD has repeatedly said he would come and visit -- and doesn't.

Again, no boundary enforcement of yours can make him keep his promises.

It is better to cut down on the breakable promises he makes:

1. Don't ask for them. You know he's got an issue here. If you don't ask him "When will you visit me?" he won't be pressured to answer and say something about Tuesday, then flake out.

2. If you hear him promising something that sounds too much like ones he's failed at before, push back on the promise--either internally or directly with him.

Don't expect him to follow through.

Or even tell him that you don't trust him, and don't want to be disappointed, so you aren't accepting this promise from him.

Telling him something like that is a form of rejection, so think twice, if not more, and figure out how best to say it... .given the risks, start a topic on one of the relationship boards on how to best do this.