I can't do this anymore

[peace74]

Hello.  This is going to be long but I need to get it out and I need help, support, and advice.

My husband and I are married 8 yrs. now.  We met and were married within 8 months.  Then we immediately had a baby he wanted so I gave up a great job with benefits and retirement that I could not return to. It was not possible to do my job pregnant and he made enough money to support us.  He worked away throughout the week for the first 3 years and I didn't have family support so he told me to go back to work after our son was in school.  I became totally dependent on him in a short period of time which is something I have never done with anyone.  There were red flags but nothing that was a deal breaker and he really acted like I was the best thing that ever happened to him.  Looking back I think he used me more of a trophy to show off to his friends and I think I boosted his self esteem, etc.  Being a dad seemed to be more about attention also.  He is 8 yrs. younger than me.  I literally had two vehicles that we drove, put the 25,000 down to buy our house, etc.  He had been living with his Dad free of charge spending his entire paycheck every week on whatever he wanted.  He gave me total control of the finances.  He did make enough to support us.  He was totally fine and happy with this arrangement.  He wanted everything I wanted (mirroring).  He was away during the week and came home Thursday and would leave again sunday night.  There really weren't any fights or issues until a year in after we bought a house, I was pregnant and had given up my job.  Then it was just little things.  Like him not answering the phone at times when he was away and drinking with his friends he worked with.  Or he would turn off his phone or not answer and lie and say he fell asleep or didn't have service.  It wasn't the fact that he was having a few beers with the guys it was the lying and not finding a few minutes to talk and support me at home.  It didn't happen ALL the time so I dealt with it.  When he was home he seemed to want to please me sometimes to the point where I thought it was overboard.  I later noticed he did this with a lot of people.  He was either being used or giving to much or going the total other way and being a total jerk.  Not that I was using him, I loved him and tried to give him everything he wanted also.  After our son was about a year old every couple months he would come home and pick a fight or just get angry and leave.  He would go drink and not call or come home until the next day.  I knew afterwards who he was with and am fairly certain it didn't have anything to do with him wanting to be with someone else.  And when he drinks, which isn't all the time, he will go a month or two without, he does it to the point that it's destructive to him, me, and our kids ( I have another child to my first husband who was 5 when we met).  He will pass out at anyone's house.  He wrecks vehicles.  We were spending at least 500 on a deductible every year because he would hit a tree or do something stupid.  This was a pattern that he had.  He told me how his grandma and dad would try to find him cause he would take off and not call and drink, etc. He and his friends told me the stories of the drinking and dysfunction.  But it was supposedly in the past.  He idolized his dad to the point it was creepy. His Mom and Dad split up when he was 7.  I guess his Dad had alcohol issues and a lot of times neglected his kids to pursue that.  He said his Mom was abusive.  He said a couple years after his Dad and Mom split up his Dad gave up alcohol entirely and did things with them and was a good Dad.  His Dad never did really have any other serious relationship.  He was a loner and just hunted and trapped and only had a couple friends he was close with.  His Dad never showed open affection or said the words I Love you.  He basically grew up in dysfunction.  Anyway, 3 years into our marriage and I pushed him to get a job at home.  That was the plan all along but he wasn't active in pursuing that or looking.  I pushed the issue because I was tired of being alone and not being together as a family except for the weekend.  He actually got a job which was better than the one he had.  What I thought would make things better only made them worse.  He said he was so happy to be home with us and it seemed like that for a few months and then things went down hill fast.  He was getting angry and having a hard time holding his temper.  He was taking off and drinking once or twice a month which was way more frequent and he wasn't doing it in a mature way.  He wasn't saying I need some time or space I am going to do such and such.  No he would act like everything was fine and then blow a gasket about something stupid or purposely push my buttons to get a reaction so he could just take off.  He would not tell me where he was going, would not answer the phone and would not return until the next day.  He started nick picking my older boy and finding fault with everything he did.  The whole house was walking on eggshells because I was trying to keep the peace.  He would throw his phones and bust them.  He would then go and buy another one instead of using his old one.  He had an entitled attitude.  He had been breaking phones since the first month we met and before because he told me he did it.  We got by but we certainly didn't have money to throw away.  He punched a few holes in the walls which he kinda helped fix the first one he did but the ones after I fixed.  He punched a hole through our bedroom door not just once but twice.  He bought the new door but I had to re-stain it and hang it by myself.  He threw a remote through the new 600 flat screen tv.  He would call me a ___ and a b___ when we got into an argument. He threw a glass through the window that was right beside the door I was walking out.  I had enough.  So I told him you need counseling, we need counseling.  I couldn't take more than anything the way he was being negative with my son and the environment he was putting our kids in.  I told him I loved him but I had an obligation to my children to keep them safe and emotionally healthy that no one else was going to do that for them.  He agreed to go to counseling.

Before he started he really lashed out with bad behavior though.  I don't think it was intentional, I didn't then and I don't now that I know all the characteristics of BPD.  He triangulated our friends (which were his first) with me.  I think he bad mouthed me and said who knows what cause everyone went from treating me well and acting totally normal with me to not.  Our one friend told me when he would go out drinking after he would fight with me he would tell her he loved me but that we were going to get a divorce. (Even though he never mentioned that to me).  We were both to be in his friends wedding and I got booted out and not told or given an explanation.  I finally told the girl it wasn't right that she changed her mind and didn't have a conversation with me that I just had to figure it out.  I still kept the peace with them so my husband could be in his best friends wedding.  He had been going out more.  Both the bachelor and bachelorette party was the same night.  He told me to go to hers and enjoy myself and he would stay home with our son.  I had tried to make amends with her and had bought her nice gifts, etc.  All for him.  I told him I didn't want him not to miss out on that entirely.  I said why don't we get a sitter and we can both go for a few hours until everyone heads out of town to the bars and stuff.  He said sure.  Needless to say we went.  I came home, he didn't.  My son who he promised to spend time with was devastated.  I tried to contact him and was totally avoided.  He came home the next day.  He went to the strip club and paid for everyone to get in. He was sorry, blah blah blah.  He didn't even have his wedding ring on.  He had taken it off a couple days ago because his hands swell when he's working and sometimes he won't keep it on.  But he knew how I felt and he knew I didn't want him going to the strip club and he was calling me after I left saying they are coming to pick me up and I will only have a few beers with them in town don't worry, I love you.  So the wedding was the next week.  He told me he would do his duties but then we could have a good night together.  He knew I wasn't on best terms with the bride to be.  He left at noon and I was going to meet up with later at the chuch.  He was so great the whole day.  He was drinking (a lot) but he was checking in with me and trying to show me he was there.  Well he got drunker and drunker and by the time all his duties were over it was time to go get our child it was 8 or 9 oclock at night and he had been drinking since noon.  Our boy was expecting us both back home.  When I asked him if he was ready to go he said no not yet.  He wasn't fighting with me but he wasn't ready to go.  The bride was standing only a foot or two away.  She turned and raised her voice in front of everyone and said "do not cause a scene at my wedding".  I was shocked and embarrassed because there was no scene we were talking/debating.  Anyway I headed for the door.  On the way out her husband yells don't go come dance with me.  I didn't know what to do so I walked over to dance with him.  On the way there the wife tells me to get the ___ off the dance floor.  I did something terrible and I wish I would not have but as I was heading to the door (again) when I walked by her I told her she was a b___.  So anyway, my husband comes out and stands outside my vehicle for 45 minutes while I plead with him to just come home.  He wasn't fighting with me he just wasn't sure what to do and you could tell.  I told him I wasn't going to stay in a relationship like this.  He ultimately decided to stay.  I felt like crap.  She had humiliated me and instead of him having my back and leaving with me he went back in to party.  The next day he called apologizing again and said  he was so sorry and that he would go to counseling and get back on track.  I found out that after the reception they went to the bar and he got into a fight with some guy defending the bride's honor about something the guy said.  Had blood all over his tux and had to hide out from the police.  

more... .

[peace74]

He went to counseling and for a while everything was okay.  It seemed to help him when he had someone he knew he was going to be accountable to.  The rage and anger stopped.  Not that he didn't get angry he just seemed to be more aware of what the consequences would be.  He stopped calling me names if we got into an argument.  He seemed to be interacting better with the kids. Things weren't perfect but they improved.  The counselor didn't diagnose him with BPD she listed mood disorder and anxiety disorder.  But he only saw her a few months about once a week and then he didn't have time.  It was summer and he wasn't getting home in time to make appointments so he quit going.  Not long after that things started reverting back.  He had left a few times during our relationship but only for a short period of time.  A weekend or a week.  He would go stay with his Dad.  I was praying to god telling him I couldn't do this anymore.  He was doing the push/pull thing and was even more emotionally distant than before if that was possible because he never was very emotionally connected.  He seemed to subsititute sex or sexual comments and gestures for emotional conection.  I had talked to him about it many times.  Anyway, his grandfather got sick and passed away rather quickly.  While his Dad was visiting his father in the hospital he had some kind of attack and they did tests on his dad and found out he had colon cancer and had to have surgery to remove part of his intestine.  His did went through all that lost his own father while in hospital.  His dad came back home and stayed with his brother for about a month and then went back to his place.  We thought he was on the mend.  A couple weeks later he died of a heart attack.  It was devastating and my husband took it very hard but didn't express emotion.  Even at the funeral he hugged him before we left for 20 min. wouldn't leave I had to talk him into going.  Never cried, I've never seen him cry.  And god forgive me but I think he did that because he couldn't cry but wanted to show what his dad meant to him.  I'm still not sure how he truly feels.  Things never seem to add up with his behavior.  My husband left out of the blue about a year after his dad died.  He was gone 2 weeks and he started hanging out with this girl he used to date before us.  He didn't tell me.  I had went to domestic relations and that day he came to get some of his stuff.  I was trying to reason with him to stay, etc.  It went from talking to him yelling and being nasty.  Anyway during this argument he blurts out I cheated on you 6 months ago.  It was a one night stand and I regretted it horribly and I'm sorry.  I asked if that was what him leaving was all about.  The guilt not being able to get close to me.  I knew it and felt it but did not know the reason.  He was evasive and didn't want to discuss it or talk about it.  That same night I checked our phone records which I did periordically but never found anything suspicious.  There was a number on his line several times a day, talking and texting.  I asked him about it and the same day I found out he had cheated on me 6 months earlier I found out he was talking and hanging out with this girl.  It had only been two weeks since he walked out the door.  I wasn't being understanding.  I was asking him to stop talking to her and hanging out with her.  I said if they were just friends than it shouldn't be that big of a deal til we figured out us and he refused.  Two weeks later he was back.  He said he loved me and missed me and didn't want me to hate him.  He said that nothing happened with them and he wanted to be with me and only me.  I agreed if he would go to marriage counseling.  We did.  Again things got better.  But this time I was involved in the process and issues that he didn't share with his councelor were coming out.  I told him that it was a condition of mine that he could not just disappear and go out drinking or just leave or I would be done.  The councelor told him he needed to support me and if that particular friend of his and his wife couldn't be respectful or be friends with me also maybe he should re-define his friendship with them.  He did.  He stopped talking to him altogether and said he had my back.  For two years that man did not go out once to a bar without me.  He no longer called me names or broke anything.  Great right?  No.  His push/pull behavior became worse and he was more passive aggressive.  He would purposely not help me or push my buttons.  He was constantly doing things and I could have went but the house would have never gotten cleaned or responsibilities wouldn't have gotten taken care of.  Then he seemed to get depressed.  One day I couldn't take the disrespect of him not caring about me and watching me do everything by myself while he sat in the chair for HOURS.  I said something and he went off.  He left.  I thought no big deal let him cool down cause for 2 years he didn't just leave and drink.  Well he came back an hour or two later drunk.  I asked him if he was going to get our son off the bus like he told him he was.  He said no.  He was going back down to his dads and was going to get some beer and mow grass.  I didn't fight him on this.  He left again.  The problem came when he didn't come back.  He said he wasn't coming back that he was going to stay down there that night.  Our child was so upset that he didn't get to see his daddy especially when he told him he was going to get him off the bus and take him fishing.  That night I got a call at 2:30 am from the state police and my heart sunk.  They said they had my husband and asked if I would come get him.  So I get my five year old and go to the police station to get his dad in the middle of the night.  I didn't get mad.  I gave him the usually parent type speech about his behavior and consequences, etc.  I think it made him mad because he didn't get all the attention and reaction he wanted.  He ended up getting charged with a DUI that got reduced to wreckless endangerment.  I just didn't want that one incident after 2 years to end things. It was the anniversary of his dad's death and I took that into account.  2 weeks later he said he was leaving out of the blue.  I tried to talk to him the next day when he came home from work and he said he was going to leave the next day.  For 2 years there were no fights.  There were good times.  It wasn't perfect and he did have BPD issues for sure but it was workable.  And he would tell me how happy he was that we were getting along.  I think he got bored.  I think he couldn't stand stability and no drama.  I think he felt guilty and ashamed that he did what he did.  It was like a switch was flipped.  He was leaving.  Period.  No talking, no emotion, nothing.  And he doesn't like emotion from me either.  He will either get irritated or ignore me or take it personal.  I went into the bedroom to try to talk to him cause he had gotten into bed.  I was crying and saying why.  He looked at me with stone cold eyes and said "oh now you want to show emotion."  What the heck I'm not supposed to show emotion when he tells me he's leaving?  And he apparently he thought I wasn't showing emotion when I needed to cause he said "now".  I have heard every reason under the sun for him leaving.  My son - I don't let him be a parent and respect him.  The only times I stood up for my son is when I had to because he pushed boundaries so far I could not in good conscious do nothing.  I bent and stayed quiet and did everything I good within reason to keep the peace.  He said he was uncomfortable here.  He said he didn't want to fight (even though the only time we did is when he did something that just wasn't acceptable or ok) He said he wasn't capable of giving us what we needed and deserved, he said he didn't know why.  I heard it all.  He never attacked me or blamed me or painted me black.  He has avoided at all costs admitting his true issues (although he has a couple times admitted some of them). 

I was devastated but hoping he would be back like always.  But at the same time I knew I could not live with him coming and going forever.  Well it's been 2 years now.  The first year we were apart 2 months then slept together.  We never broke that bond.  He was not dating.  We still communicated every day and talked like we would if he was here.  Then we started dating.  Then when I brought it up that we needed to have a goal and work on him moving back in he pushed away a little.  He then picked a date and said I will try to return by this date.  Which isn't what I meant or wanted but I went with it.  Then right before that he went out and wrecked another truck and decided he was going to pay 2000 for a dog that was an inside dog and huge and that if he came back the dog had to come with him.  I said no.  I told him he knew from the beginning I didn't want a dog inside and we got an outside dog that sleeps on our sunporch.  He didn't take care of any of the responsibilities of that dog.  It's mine and the kids now because it's family but he is the one that wanted it.  So I said no and he said he was getting it anyway and I told him to just stay where he was at.  That might seem a little harsh over a dog but you have to understand that I never matter and I thought he was serious about our marriage he should be working on that and not adding more issues or a dog.  He was picking the dog over me not the other way around.  Anyway, we had a two month break he got the dog then he did come back and the dog came with him.  I am an animal lover and I wasn't happy about it but I got over it and I got attached to the dog and so did the kids.  Things were going well and he was treating everyone well.  Four months later he left again.  He just couldn't seem to give up control issues and stuff.  He refused to do anything here but he had time to go take care of his place.  It was same issues except when I didn't say anything he seemed to bait me to try to get a reaction from me.  I said something negative, not mean or crazy but just negative and he said he was leaving again.  That was the end of June. At that point I decided it was probably time for me to start detaching from it cause it felt like he would just do this forever.  So I started talking to him less and keeping it more about just our son.  Then at the end of September he told me he loved me and missed me and his family.  He agreed that he would go to counseling if I gave him a chance and we took things slow.  I told him straight out I didn't have much faith in what he was saying cause he changed his mind like the wind.  He insisted that he wasn't going to change his mind and I said fine we will take things slow and see how things go.  He offered to take my son and I out but when the time came decided he had to do something else and he didn't want me going because he didn't have time to tell his friend we were going to work on things.  I said fine.  Then the next weekend he pretty much did the same thing.  We did spend time together during the week and text and talk.  And yes I slept with him.  I am still attracted to him physically very much.  Anyway when he pretty much told me he was going out to the same friends and he didn't invite me I told him I wasn't going to do this.  I said it was disrespectful to treat me like that and I wasn't going to meet his needs or be on the side.  He didn't explain or want to talk he just wanted to let it go. 

Then mid November I find out that the cousin of the guy he hangs out with came home from the military.  She is always out there so my son tells me.  She is young, early 20's and he's mid 30's and I just crossed over 40.  I kept asking him if there was anything between them and he kept saying no.  Then she was at his house at Christmas.  It totally made my Christmas sad to find out he shared it with her and my son.  He told me he talked to her on the phone and she wanted to give my son stuff for Christmas but they weren't together.  I don't know what is going on with them.  They weren't together other then doing things together with a group at his friends house.  He told me a month ago that he told her he didn't want to talk on the phone anymore because he was still married and wasn't interested in a relationship and that she was young and wanted marriage and babies and he didn't want that.  I then 2 weeks later in a moment of weakness called him and was discussing our relationship.  I asked him if he missed me and he said he missed everything about being with me he then later in the conversation said he just didn't think about it.  I went out to have drinks the other night.  I never go anywhere and have only went out twice since he left and he knows this.  When he called so my son could tell me goodnight I told him where I was when he asked.  I told my husband I had to go and that I was heading home and that if my son wanted to talk more he could call me back.  Well my husband called back.  He was telling me that he still loved me and had feelings for me, etc. etc.  He was actually not defensive and receptive to what I was saying about his "issues" and how we couldn't be together if he didn't want to get help.  He told me there was nothing between that girl and him when I brought it up.  I just don't know what to do.  He hasn't asked to come back although he did ask to be sex buddies the other night when we spoke.  Of course I said no.  I just feel like he has be on a string.  I feel like I am the only one that will decide when this ends.  But I'm just not sure what I should do.  I do think he loves me.  I know it's not a mature love and he has many issues.  I will not date or move on or try to manipulate the situation even though I know I could.  I don't think I'll be ready to date for a long time.  But when I do I know he is not going to be okay.  It makes me sad to think of hurting him in that way.  I must be so messed up.  This man has hurt me beyond belief and I still have love for him, wish we could be together, and alter my behavior because I either feel guilty or do not want to hurt him.  And my life is such a mess.  I have no decent job, no security for my boys and I.  All the men I do meet through work or acquaintances seem to be so messed up also.  In some ways worse than my husband.  I feel like I'm in a rut and it just keeps me tied to him.  And believe it or not my first husband who was BPD/NPD was so much worse.  I feel like I can't let go 100% but I can't go back to the same thing.  He has humiliated me and makes me look like a fool.  I do deserve love and respect and he just operates in a whole different world.  I feel like a moved to crazyville because that is where he lived and I loved him and wanted to be with him but now that he is gone I am still living in crazyville instead of packing my bags and leaving.  HELP!

[peace74]

And I have seen a therapist.  She told me I was one of the most insightful and aware people she has ever counseled.  She's the one that told me she felt my husband had BPD.  We talked about spiritual beliefs, co-dependency, some family stuff, etc.  I was dying inside but as always people think I have it together more than I do and I was telling her I didn't!  We live in an impoverished area and therapists and counselors are in high demand so it's hard to even get into one and most of them have not helped me or my spouses.

[once removed]

hi peace74 

im glad you found us and are reaching out for support  . it helps to talk, and get our story out, and to read the stories of others who can relate to us. it does sound like youve been through a great deal and must be exhausted, we understand.

can i ask, specifically, what youre looking for help/advice on?

[peace74]

I feel stuck.

When he discarded us (again), I was devastated but held onto hope that he would be back and we would work it out.  He had left so many times.  I actually thought maybe it would help him appreciate what he had cause it was the first time he was on his own, living by himself.  This was before I went to counseling and was told he was probably BPD and then researched it.  Even after I researched, I was in some kind of denial thinking it would work.  Anyway, he's been gone 2 yrs. and we were together most of that time.  Just not living together.  He even came home for 4 months last summer.  This past Sept. he asked again if I would be willing to work it out and even though I had really mixed feelings I said yes on the condition you get counseling.  That only lasted 2 weeks and I got upset because he was "hiding" me and the fact he wanted to work it out and I told him I wasn't going to be disrespected or kept on the side.  He let it go and did not want to talk about it at all like it never happened even though I addressed it many times.

Anyway, the last 6 months I have tried to keep my conversations and dealings about our child.  I have tried to ignore my heart and go with what my head knows.  He makes it so hard.  He is very nice (most of the time), appears so normal (most of the time).  He still wants a connection that is obvious.  He tells me he still loves me.  He hasn't painted be black.  He will drive by my work to see if I'm working when I say I have to work late.  I know this is immature and based on his jealousy.  He doesn't want me with anyone else.  I don't do anything but work and take care of my kids.  I'm not really interested in going out as there isn't much to do but go to the bars and I am past that phase of my life.  So it's like he keeps me on the side as a security blanket while he goes on with his life.  He can't be alone so he is constantly with other people and keeping very busy.  We are still married and neither of us have the money to pursue a divorce and I don't want to until I can get back on my feet with health insurance, etc. 

He will not give me closure and I know it will be me that makes the decision to move on and not look back.  I just struggle with this.  I know that he can't give me what I truly deserve and need.  I worry about him.  I feel like he loved me the best he could and maybe I should accept everything for what it is and wait until he wants to return.  It also causes me distress and anxiety to think about hurting him if I do move on.  He just doesn't look at the big picture or consequences until it's too late.  And would I be strong enough to turn him down anyway?  I still love him but know intellectually that it just isn't right or fair to be thrown away like trash.  I have seen improvement when he was seeing a counselor and I think that if he agreed to that I might try again.  But part of me just wants to be done with it all.  I just don't want to feel this pain anymore.  I want to feel nothing for him.  I divorced a BPD/NPD that discarded me already.  He was way worse and even though I went through hell this feels so much different.  I feel like I have too much compassion and understanding.  I just don't know what to do.

[WoundedBibi]

You have so much conflicting ideas and feelings right now (all perfectly natural); take him back if he goes to counseling because he might improve although he will be passive agressive and bored, not take him back because you're sick of it, take him back because you might not be able to resist, not take him back because nothing will ever change, take him back because you love him, move on because you have a right to happiness, not move on because it would hurt him...

What about not doing any of those? Just focus on you. And your children. Communicate with him about the kids. Communicate with your counselor about you. As long as you are in the middle of the FOG in the BPD swamp you will not know what to do, or you might change your mind on what to do every 5 minutes. And both are fine. Get your bearing first. Realise you're in the FOG. Decide what to do later. When you're ready you will know.

[peace74]

thank you Bibi.

All the back and forth as to why take him back, why not take him back in your post made me laugh.  It makes me realize how I'm just at the beginning of all this.  I really thought I was out of the FOG.  I guess us carrying on a relationship after he left and then him coming back just postponed true detaching.  I have definitely grieved and come a long way but I have so far to go.

I stopped going to counseling a long time ago.  Maybe I will look into going back.  I do only focus on myself and kids but he is always on my mind.  It sucks.

[WoundedBibi]

thank you Bibi.

All the back and forth as to why take him back, why not take him back in your post made me laugh.  It makes me realize how I'm just at the beginning of all this.  I really thought I was out of the FOG.  I guess us carrying on a relationship after he left and then him coming back just postponed true detaching.  I have definitely grieved and come a long way but I have so far to go.

I stopped going to counseling a long time ago.  Maybe I will look into going back.  I do only focus on myself and kids but he is always on my mind.  It sucks.

I really do think you are at the beginning of this. Being together but not being together, I don't think anyone can detach that way. How you can you detach from him if you consider him to be your guy that just happens to live somewhere else?

Most people here use NC as a tool to detach. If you have kids obviously that isn't an option but LC is, like what you're doing. But if at all possible I would certainly look at going back to your C or T to help you see clearly where the FOG starts or ends, what is his, what is yours, why you end up in PD relationships (like me), those kinds of things.

What tells me you're still in the FOG is that he's always on your mind, you know you can't make it work but feel you can, and every choice you want to make for you needs to go past the 'but does it hurt him' test and fails that test often. Even thinking about making a choice for yourself makes you feel you are hurting him. Your thoughts can't hurt him peace74