Unsent message. Just venting

[Larmoyant]

I need to vent again  :'(

I’d like to answer a text message that I received from my ex. There’s no point in sending it to him because he won’t listen and he’d twist my response to whatever he wants to feel. However, if I put it out there, maybe, just maybe I might feel a little better.

He wrote:

“You didn’t love me. No one who loves someone drops them at the hospital very unwell then finishes with them while they are there. Keeps clandestine relationships with other men and involves them in the relationship. Lies to the person over and over again. Finishes with them every week so that they became an emotional wreck. Insights them with a host of psychological problems. That isn’t love. It’s not love I recognize”.

My answer:

“I did love you, very much. You have wonderful qualities. You can be kind. You make me laugh. I loved your smile and your quirkiness. The way you walked. I used to look at you and I’d melt. I loved the way you held the back of my neck. Loved it when you said “hi lovely” or “hi gorgeous”. I knew that meant you were in a good mood. Knew that meant you valued me. I didn’t finish with you when you were unwell. This is what you told me about your ex wife. That she wasn’t supportive when you were very ill. She wasn’t there for you. I believed you. Little did I know I was going to be accused of the exact same thing. Same as the clandestine relationships. You told me that your ex had several affairs. Once more, I believed you, felt so sorry for you. Empathised, it must of hurt, but don’t worry I would never do that to you. I wouldn’t have. I loved you. Lies, yes I lied sometimes. I lied when I met my sister for coffee because you hated her. I love her and she never meant harm. She was worried for me. I did leave you, but I told you why. I tried to set boundaries. Said if you rage and insult me I would go and feeling completely heartbroken I did. What I didn’t realise at the time was you had a fear of abandonment. I should have stated that I was leaving, but would be back when you’d calmed down. I didn’t say that and I’m sorry for the pain it caused you, but try to look at the pain I was in to have to run from you. You raged. I was in pain and confusion. I loved you, you said you loved me, and I couldn’t understand how you could insult and devalue me that way. I didn’t understand. I started to seek answers, wanted to find out what this was all about. I found it, BPD/NPD/ASPD and it fit. In anger I told you this. In an effort to make it right I told you this. In desperation I told you this. I hurt you and I’m sorry, so very sorry. No buts, I’m just sorry. This ‘is’ love though. This is. You can’t see it. You don’t trust it and there’s nothing I can do to change that. Nothing at all.  

[seenr]

do you think sending it would have any impact at all?

[gotbushels]

I need to vent again  :'(

No worries.   Vent away. Larmoyant, I can feel pain, striving, wanting, struggling in your message to him. To some extent, I would consider that there may even be a strong caretaker element there. I would also recall that caretaking can be somewhat "accustomed" into us. This was my awareness of the experience and to see you going through something similar is difficult for me to experience when I read your post.

I’d like to answer a text message that I received from my ex.

I won't consider where you are in the relationship with him. I just want to focus on the behaviours here okay?

There’s no point in sending it to him because he won’t listen and he’d twist my response to whatever he wants to feel. However, if I put it out there, maybe, just maybe I might feel a little better.

Yes, I agree, there's "no point" in the sense that it will place you where probably don't want to be.

Yes, I have written things out before so I can feel they have been acknowledged. I think this is a good idea. I felt better after writing. Did you?

There is a point, but it won't be the point you would like to achieve. You're going to stir up something I think is unhealthy for you. There's a good reason why I think this way, I'll see if you can catch it yourself further down this post.

He wrote:

“You didn’t love me. (... .)

My answer:

("yes but," “I did love you, very much. (... .)

I added the blue text so it's clearer to you. Can you identify an element here that is an item of what is considered unhealthy? What is the act you are doing, how are you starting out your response to him?

I want to praise you for your effort to pursue healthy action Larmoyant. Good catching yourself:) I encourage you to stay strong and take heart.

[schwing]

Hi Larmoyant,

I know you wrote what you did with good intent.  But I'd like to try to explain why what you wrote wouldn't be received well by someone with BPD.  I know it defies common sense but this is my understanding of the nature of the disorder.

You see, right now he *needs* to think that you are an awful person.  He needs to do this because the only alternative for him is to believe that *he* is an awful person.  And what you wrote does not sound like something an awful person would write.  And this would just throw him back into a tizzy.

I know you want to help him.  And I know that you wrote in your letter that you believe he has "BPD/NPD/ASPD" but for the same reason why he needs to think you're an awful person, this kind of information is more than he can handle.

Because his thinking is distorted, because he "splits", for him to accept that he has BPD/NPD/ASPD, would lead him to devalue himself.  And when that gets too overwhelming he will just project/distort again as a defensive mechanism which puts him back to square one: needing to hate you.

Also, when you tell him you love him.  I don't think this would soothe him in the least.  My understanding of this disorder is that when they start to feel intimate connections with other people, their disordered fear of abandon is triggered.  And when a relationship develops sufficiently, people with BPD can become overwhelmed by this fear of abandonment.  To a point where the fear becomes their truth; feeling becomes fact.  I wonder if sometimes pwBPD intellectually understand this phenomena.  But when the feelings hit them, instinct takes over.

In any case,  I really don't recommend that you send this letter.  Not because I know with 100% certainty that this won't help him (I don't know this), but because I want you to spare yourself from more unnecessary pain.

Best wishes, Schwing.

[Larmoyant]

do you think sending it would have any impact at all?

Hi seenr, I’m not sure. I’ve tried things like this in the past, but he doesn’t seem to be able to see things from my perspective. He has little empathy and doesn’t trust what I say or what anyone says come to that. He’s a suspicious/paranoid kind of person. He’s more than likely to use it to continue an argument. I get the feeling right now that what he really wants is for me to back right down, admit I’m at fault so we can recycle again. But, I can’t do that anymore. If he won’t meet me in the middle then how can it ever work.

[Larmoyant]

You see, right now he *needs* to think that you are an awful person.  He needs to do this because the only alternative for him is to believe that *he* is an awful person.  And what you wrote does not sound like something an awful person would write.  And this would just throw him back into a tizzy.

Hi schwing, How would this throw him back into a tizzy? Can you explain more please? Is there anything that could soothe him? What soothes pwBPD?

I agree that it's not a good idea to send the letter. He definitely hates me right now I suspect and I know what's coming next.

[Larmoyant]

Hi gotbushels,

I admit it I’m a caretaker type from a very early age. I often feel such strong compassion for him and keep thinking I can help him. Then he does something horrible, hurts me so much and I get angry for a while only to have the compassionate side come back and here I go again!

I’m not going to send this. He doesn’t trust me, doesn’t believe I love him and nothing I say seems to get through. He doesn’t believe anyone loves him, is always suspicious of people’s motives. It’s incredibly sad. He’d just use this to continue to argue. It did make me feel better though. It’s a release, getting it out.

quote "There is a point, but it won't be the point you would like to achieve. You're going to stir up something I think is unhealthy for you. There's a good reason why I think this way, I'll see if you can catch it yourself further down this post".

Do you mean if I send it I will stir up something in him that is unhealthy for me?


He wrote:

“You didn’t love me. (... .)

My answer:

("yes but," “I did love you, very much. (... .)[/quote]
I added the blue text so it's clearer to you. Can you identify an element here that is an item of what is considered unhealthy? What is the act you are doing, how are you starting out your response to him?



Call me slow, but the only thing I can think of is that I am invalidating his concern that I didn’t love him? Instead, maybe I should be asking him why he thinks I didn't love him?

I want to praise you for your effort to pursue healthy action Larmoyant. Good catching yourself:) I encourage you to stay strong and take heart.[/quote]


Thanks for the encouragement. I think I’m on the right track. Keep pushing forwards is my new motto

[schwing]

How would this throw him back into a tizzy?

You wrote "I did love you, very much."  Right now, as he is devaluing you, he *needs* to see you as an awful person who would abandon him.  He feels this way because of his disorder.  And because he cannot accept that he has a disorder, he needs to believe that his feelings are justified, even if the justifications are completely (re)imagined.  (You cannot persuade someone with reasoning and logic to no longer be mentally disordered).  Because the alternative is to realize that he feels this way about someone who loves him and it doesn't make any more sense to him than it does to us.  The alternative is to consider that something is wrong with him; and I don't think he capable of considering this (yet?).

Ultimately he would be sent in a tizzy for the same reason why nearly all people with BPD (without preparation) have an extremely hard time considering that they have a mental disorder; because of the self-devaluation.  Those who are on the path to recovery, first develop alternative tools to self-soothe, to cope with their escalated emotions, take "baby-steps" to consider and accept their flaws.  This is why I think any proficient therapists who deals with pwBPD never say outright this is their diagnosis -- even though us nons tend to get angry that they don't; we end up thinking they are incompetent.

Telling him he has a mental disorder will upset him sufficiently to make him block-out/project-away this possibility; and in my words, put him in a "tizzy."

Is there anything that could soothe him? What soothes pwBPD?

The only kind of self-soothing unrecovered people with BPD use tend to be the self-destructive kind (drugs, alcohol, over-indulgence, et al) or  mal-adaptive (projection, dissociation, splitting, et al).  When they manage to start recovery perhaps in dialectical behavioral therapy, they learn small ways to cope.  They learn the tools and practice applying them.  And I think they need to practice them in small ways because when it gets too overwhelming, they might abandon the new tools and revert back to the old ways.  And as I see it, big challenges are considering you have a mental disorder, and the consequences of being in an intimate relationship.

The thing is, how do you convince someone they need to work on skills to help them cope with a disorder, without telling them they have a disorder?  I imagine that's one of the big struggles for therapists who work with pwBPD.

[HoneyB33]

Larmoyant I really wish I could just give you a huge hug. Reading your words, I just feel for you so much. All the love you have, and all the fires you're just trying and trying to put out. I'm so very sorry that you are going through this.


What you also said with,"I’ve tried things like this in the past, but he doesn’t seem to be able to see things from my perspective. He has little empathy and doesn’t trust what I say or what anyone says come to that. He’s a suspicious/paranoid kind of person. He’s more than likely to use it to continue an argument. I get the feeling right now that what he really wants is for me to back right down, admit I’m at fault so we can recycle again. But, I can’t do that anymore. If he won’t meet me in the middle then how can it ever work."  This is SO familiar to what I experienced with my ex. I remember over and over trying to explain to my ex that I needed her to meet me in the middle. And knowing that she wanted me to accept all the blame, and that that was the only "way" to move forward with her. That she even went and got with someone else, and I knew that she was trying to force me to accept this role, so that I would come crawling back to "prove" my love to her.

I like what you said schwing. It helped me realize that so much of what happened with my ex trying to make me believe these horrible things about me. Simply, that all happened because she was being forced to face herself more and more. She got so full of her self-hatred (that I wouldn't rescue her from because I was too exhausted), and so she needed to turn it on me. I had wondered for a long time where all of that came from, and now I understand--it was because I was exhausted with her.

[Larmoyant]

HoneyB, I don’t understand why, but your post just made me cry. I think it’s because of all the fires I’m trying to put out. I mean it’s 3am and I’m wide awake trying to understand, trying to find some sort of way through all of this. It hurts so much.

I can relate to your pain of her getting with someone else as my ex has done this too although I don’t think he’s found a replacement yet. It’s almost unbearable to think he could be with another person though, but strangely enough it’s what’s keeping me away from him. I don’t know if I could ever forgive him for it.

As for the horrible things they say about us. I just read over a few of his last texts to me and it’s as if he is hurling them at me at a very fast pace forcing me to accept that I’m a terrible person. Sounds like your ex is similar. The problem is that it’s hard not to take some blows. As much as I try not to absorb them they hurt.

One thing I hope is happening is that he, like your ex, is having to face himself more and more. I’m not letting him paint this picture of me.

[HoneyB33]

Haha, that's probably because when I wrote that how I really felt was, "I wish I could just hug you a let you cry." I guess it's because I just so feel where you're at right now. It feels like you have a gun shot wound to the chest, and like you have no way to move forward. It's SO simple, if they would just see the truth. But you can't make them, no matter how hard you try. It's literally like the harder you try, the worse it gets. (That's a lot to do with the cycle schwing wrote about I think.)

When I went through this, I had no idea what was going on. My ex was trying more and more to force me into this role. And because she believed herself so much, and because I had raged a few times at her (in self-defense), I started to give in to these accusations. I also didn't realize that she had been creating this atmosphere of me being some abuser and mentally ill person. She went as far as trying to convince me that I had BPD. It's taken me two years to get to even beginning to understand what the hell happened.

I understand what you mean with that pain of them getting with someone else. For me, and I think many others, it was like my ex was saying (without saying), "Believe it's you. Believe you're the abuser, the mentally ill one. Apologize for it. Take the blame, and if you don't, I will punish you. I will force you to believe it's true." My ex acted like I was totally mentally ill, even told our friends that I was. And then acted like she was "only doing what was best for her". Treating me like she had to escape me, and "get healthy". It was horrible, because it was like the more I tried to defend myself, and fight for myself, the more I "wronged" her. Because who was I to "deny" her what she apparently wanted? It was the most twisted thing I have ever been through. But it is also what kept me away. I knew she was trying to force me to come lie to her, flatter her, and degrade myself, and I wouldn't. I had already gone too far in believing lies she said about me.

I'm really glad that you at least have some buffers between what he says. Knowing his BPD, and being here with other ppl to tell you that it's not true.

Funny, when I read the text you posted from him, it actually kind of triggered me because in a way when I was crying to my ex, she made me feel like I was mentally ill. Like I was just this sad pathetic thing, and "Awww, it's ok, one day you'll find someone who loves you!" When I read it, I realized how she had totally created this atmosphere of "HoneyB is crazy." And I realized how she had treated what I said like I was the one with BPD. So reading his words, I saw how she had turned whatever I said to look like I was basically her (does this makes sense? Lol)... .But then reading your text that you would say to him was so--I don't know. It was so defining of truth for me, because I realized that "if" I was somehow ill, what someone who loved me would say, would do, and how they would be fighting for me.

So maybe your words didn't get through to him, but they actually really got through for me, and really helped me take another step out of these lies about myself.

I'm so sorry you're in this pain. It's traumatizing, it really is. "I'm not letting him paint this picture of me." Good. Because I made the mistake of going down that hill with my ex (because I didn't know!), and now it's taking me everything to get back out again.

[gotbushels]

I admit it I’m a caretaker type from a very early age. I often feel such strong compassion for him and keep thinking I can help him. Then he does something horrible, hurts me so much and I get angry for a while only to have the compassionate side come back and here I go again!

Me too. I still have some caretaker properties / characteristics. Two years on and I'm still figuring out how to manage them    First, consider acknowledging it's neither "good" nor "bad" to have too much or too little of a caretaker portion of you. Then, I think a pair of good questions to follow is, "Why do I feel like a caretaker?" and "What does being a caretaker mean?"

I’m not going to send this. He doesn’t trust me, doesn’t believe I love him and nothing I say seems to get through. He doesn’t believe anyone loves him, is always suspicious of people’s motives. It’s incredibly sad. He’d just use this to continue to argue. It did make me feel better though. It’s a release, getting it out.

Good to hear. I have my fair stack of letters not-for-sending. And they are certainly nowhere near as pleasant as yours. I also found out some people went so far as to call it "The Lost Art of the Unsent Angry Letter".

There is something special about writing things out, regardless of getting them sent to someone. In the modern female context, Emma Watson apparently has more than thirty journals/scrap books (more books than years-of-age)  

Call me slow, but the only thing I can think of is that I am invalidating his concern that I didn’t love him? Instead, maybe I should be asking him why he thinks I didn't love him?

No. I judge to vehemently not call you slow based on one single thing I asked you about  

That's a great guess. In fact... .I didn't think of it that way. Hmm. Yes--I learned something! Yes, actually, I do think it's an invalidation, because he's making a statement and you're denying the truth of the statement. To do that immediately after the statement of his feeling/thought is an invalidating response. Wow. Great work Larmoyant. From there you can use this to then question, "What else can I say that doesn't invalidate something from him?"

I was actually thinking, he's telling you something, and you're trying to prove him wrong. The topic is love, so it's basically the easiest to miss and one of the quickest we seem to want to defend. Completely standard non reaction. I did it all the time. Yes, naughty. It's not a mistake. It's not that it's wrong. It's just not healthy sometimes. It's possibly even unhealthy in some situations. If you look closely at what the conversation looks like to an observer:

He wrote:

“You didn’t love me. (... .)

My answer:

("yes but," “I did love you, very much. (... .)

Attempt at justifying a difference in feelings.

Attempt at defending your feelings as different to his.

You're about to explain your position.*

One thing I hope is happening is that he, like your ex, is having to face himself more and more. I’m not letting him paint this picture of me.

Yes I had this hope too:) I also feared that she would just skip on to the next relationship. My ex was a skipper. Like a stone on water. By that time I was comforted by the fact that even if she failed to confront things herself, she was in no position to judge me as a person. When I kept that in mind, pain lost a lot of its hold. Like water crashing on water--it can't even corrode. I encourage you to keep going, the hope from you that comes through your writing is pleasant to read.

I hope you get some rest!





* JADEing.