Understanding

[AmateurSamurai]

Been lurking here for a few days, it has helped me immensely to know I'm not alone. It's incredible, everything I've been going through has made sense after reading this forum. Writing this probably more for me. Apologies for the wall of text about to hit you.

A year ago, I met a beautiful, intelligent woman with two children. She seemed to be everything I was looking for in a partner. That same combination of being a huge nerd and a jock at the same time. We moved very fast, and I ignored the red flags entirely. Her childhood upbringing was pretty dark and stormy. She says she is OCD with the intrusive thoughts rather than compulsions.
The first being that she still lived with her ex, he would be possessive, abusive, etc.
 She claimed that she did not have the money to move out, that she couldn't live with her family, that she had to placate him so he would behave better for the kids. I bought all of it, but said I would not be okay with this arrangement forever. I asked her if she had a plan (no.) I told her it was important for me that she come up with one, didn't have to be done overnight. This of course, was the worst thing I could have ever said, apparently. (3-4 months into relationship.) She left crying, so on.
 Short version, everything she describes about him is NPD.

I experienced the push-pull dynamics the entire time. About a month later, I asked her if she had even the rough outline of a plan to move out from her ex. She admitted he was still being physically abusive to her. But she worried he would hurt the kids if she made any drastic moves. A couple weeks after that, still no plan, I told her I couldn't do this anymore, I was willing to be after her children in priorities, but not her ex. I thought this was the end of the story.

She moved out, and into her family's home that night. I, of course, took her back immediately. But she still wasn't sure, I had hurt her. Months later, she was alternating between hating me for making her do it too fast and thanking me for helping her do it, it was the best thing she had ever done, and so on. I became sick here, because I became obsessed with fixing her and her problems. I ignored my own. Work and school suffered greatly.

Anyways, we continue on our dysfunctional dance. The problem being, her older daughter. I have fallen in love with this kid in a way I never have with any person. This kid has handled everything she has seen and somehow uses it to drive her. But I think she became attached, because I would read her bedtime stories. She could make a mistake and my reaction would be to explain why she made a mistake and how it hurt someone else, rather than explode. (Crazy, I know, right?)

I deal with the emotional roller coaster, trying my best to be supportive. But, I just can't shake this bad feeling. Everything I do, or ask is ignored. Anything else is written off as how I demand perfection from her, unrealistic expectations, I'm insane and the like. I ask why she is walking into the house of someone who has physically abused her for an hour at midnight to drop off the kids. I hit my low point, I break up with her. I'm tired of having sex, my love for her kids, my good traits all being used as weapons against me.

That lasts for a couple weeks. She tells everyone I know how much she loves me. She tells me how much she's changed. Everything is better now. She's all fixed. Couple weeks later I do something I've never done in a relationship before, I looked at her phone while she slept. Nothing bad in the texts, dating back only a week. I look in FB messages, back in January, I see a msg from her to ex among other back and forth, "Bedtime cuddles?"

She notices in the morning I'm disturbed and haven't slept. What's wrong? I explain and say I'm upset and need time to process it. She calls that evening, I say i'm still not ready. She insists. I say I'm hurt. She says she can't do this anymore. She texts me, apologizes for being a liar. I am discarded.
I ask questions, which, of course, I am insulting her by having the gall to ask. Back and forth, gets angrier, and I let loose on the year of everything I've held in. This of course, proves I am immature and a terrible person. I am blocked, I should never contact her again. Two weeks later I'm told she's replaced me with her boss and back living with her ex again. I can never see this kid again.

My question is, what just happened? What happened to the woman I loved? Did she ever exist? Is she in there somewhere?
More importantly, why can I not stop obsessing over it? I am finally starting to grasp my own codependency issues that got me in this situation in the first place.
Why does she not care? Is she not able to grasp that her actions had an absolutely devastating impact on someone else? Am I out of my damn mind?
Where do I go from here? I've done everything right, refocused on myself, gym, friends, work, yet I can't pull my mind out of it. I've had bad breakups but wow, this is NUTS.

More importantly,
Was her abuse as bad as she says with her ex? I have enough from texts with her to at the very least start a DCFS investigation. I know I can't help her kids myself, but I'm not comfortable abandoning to years of abuse, if that is the truth. I don't want that to be something done out of emotion, but rather it being the best decision I can make for kids I love.
I read some of the emails she sent him, he sounded reasonable. Hated me because I said I had emailed her my thoughts, along them confusion around why she would spend so much time around a bad person and a bad father. Funny thing is, he said it in a way that led me to believe he's reasonable. "I am uncomfortable with him being around our children. He has said he believes I am a bad father and I don't believe that is a healthy thing for our children to be around."  Like she had played both of us off each other. The only time I met him, he was quiet the whole time, though I tried to be friendly (this is before, she told me about the "abuse." With all the lies unspooling, I'm now doubting this aspect.

[schwing]

Hi AmateurSamurai,

My question is, what just happened?

One of the big motivators behind the behaviors of people with BPD (pwBPD) is their effort to avoid real and imagined abandonment.  I think that the minute she thought you might leave her, for example after discovering potential lies, she had to leave you (i.e. abandon you) before you could leave/abandon her.  Even if you had no intention of just discarding the relationship, if she imagines you could/would, then she will act accordingly.

What happened to the woman I loved? Did she ever exist? Is she in there somewhere?

This is another hard pill to swallow.  Another criteria for the diagnosis of this disorder is "identity disturbances."  There is a good chance that who she was, while she was with you, were just the best traits she could wear to seduce you.  I'd bet that if you talked to someone who knew her before she met you, they would observe that she was acting a bit differently if not very differently.  If you get a chance to see how she describes herself in the near future, you might not recognize her.

More importantly, why can I not stop obsessing over it?

You're obsessing over it because she essentially abandoned you.  The pain that she has inflicted on you is a little like the pain that she probably experienced as a child which produced this disorder in the first place.  Only you're an adult.  Can you imagine how much this might mess up someone with a child's psyche?

Why does she not care? Is she not able to grasp that her actions had an absolutely devastating impact on someone else?

She has blotted it out of her mind.  Intellectually she might be able to consider how damaging her behavior might be towards you.  But emotionally, she can only focus on what she needs and how she is affected.  If emotionally, she needs to think of you as the "bad guy" then that's what she'll do.  If her emotions change (and they might for a while), then she'll come back for a bit but I don't think it'll last. Unless you really subscribed to her distortions, which I don't suggest you do.

Am I out of my damn mind?
Where do I go from here? I've done everything right, refocused on myself, gym, friends, work, yet I can't pull my mind out of it. I've had bad breakups but wow, this is NUTS.

If you feel overwhelmed, get professional help.  Ideally find someone with some experience dealing with family and loved ones of people with personality disorders.  

What you are dealing with, I would put in the same ball park of grief/loss due to a death of a family member.  Not quite the same thing but same intensity and maybe worse if the relationship you had with this woman somehow resonates with something out of your own childhood (i.e., does this remind you of mom or dad in some way?).

More importantly,  Was her abuse as bad as she says with her ex?

Maybe, maybe not.  Maybe she was the person who was physically abusive. It's hard to say without actually being there because the distortions can be severe.  It would be nice to help the kids but you have no legal standing, the system won't help you and if anything it could hurt you if she decides to lie to the system.

In any case, you are in the right place.

Best wishes,

Schwing

[joeramabeme]

Amateur Samurai

Welcome to BPD Family. 

I can relate to much of what you wrote about and the pain and confusion of wondering what just happened.  Borderline Personality is really about emotional dysregulation that centers on the fear of abandonment.  This is the central point around the push/pull cycle that you experienced.

My question is, what just happened? What happened to the woman I loved? Did she ever exist? Is she in there somewhere?

This is another common question.  For sure she existed but as Schwing pointed out not always able to stay with any particular way of being.

All the questions and concerns you have are very "normal" coming from a very abnormal situation. 

Are you currently living in your own place?  Do you see her regularly or have regular contact.  There are some really good lessons about how to communicate with pwBPD on this site.  Here are a couple of links.  If you are going to continue communications these tools can really help.

SET: Support, empathy and Truth - https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0
JADE: JADE means to justify, argue, defend, and/or explain. Dexify is a similar term meaning defend, explain, and/or justify - https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0


JRB

[gotbushels]

Hi AmateurSamurai 

Relationships with people with what's considered a serious mental illness are not typical relationships--so I don't think it's fair to expect yourself to respond in a typical way. Excessive push-pull dynamics, severe (apparent) indecision on previous relationships, and "extreme" reactions to things are not easy to deal with. I hope you can see this and not be too hard on yourself. While it's common to feel extremely confused as a partner--you're not out of your mind.

You posed yourself some great questions. I encourage you to keep an open mind and explore those questions.

I look forward to hearing more of your story. 

Helpful links:
Site's abbreviations.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=26601.0
Acceptance workshop.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.msg604907#msg604907

[GoingBack2OC]

My question is, what just happened?

---- One of the big motivators behind the behaviors of people with BPD (pwBPD) is their effort to avoid real and imagined abandonment.   ----


I think this nails it. I wonder if many of you find that your BPDexs were not "conflict avoidant" per se, but "resolution avoidant".

My ex literally would not resolve issues. It started in the beginning as she would quite literally just get up and walk away, or leave, if we were together, and we were talking about an issue, big or small.

She literally began to build walls as time moved on, one big defense tactic, she would text, but not talk, or talk, but not meet. The phone became a way for her to hide.

I would say to her, babe, just call me to discuss. She would then text for hours long winded off topic rants throwing everything at me she could.

If she was texting (on the iPhone you can see when someone is responding, it shows a little "... ." sign" and I would call, she would click me to voicemail.

She once said she ":)oesn't think about bad thoughts", rather "files them away so they are gone and away".

Like sweeping the dust under the rug. It was better not to discuss, and just forget, regardless the problem.

[joeramabeme]

I think this nails it. I wonder if many of you find that your BPDexs were not "conflict avoidant" per se, but "resolution avoidant".

My ex literally would not resolve issues. It started in the beginning as she would quite literally just get up and walk away, or leave, if we were together, and we were talking about an issue, big or small.

Great comment here, absolutely "resolution avoidant".  I suspect that this is a central theme for all of us here.

At some point during my 11 year marriage I remember thinking that she is more into "wanting" than "having".  It was always as if there were a line in the sand that just got simply redrawn.  At some point I questioned myself, where am I going and where does this lead.

If I followed the line in the sand, it kept moving and all along the way her finding reasons to verbally attack me.  If I questioned that she was moving the line, an argument would ensue that also had no resolution.

Is this the place from which our expwBPD was expecting us to understand what they needed?  I don't think it was ever really clear to her.  There were some therapy sessions when she admitted not feeling safe telling me what she wanted for fear I would reject her (abandonment?).

Either way, the avoidance of resolution was tremendous and this not only was in regard to conflict but achieving goals with one another.  Actually, achieving goals was a mixed bag.  She is an awesome planner.  But when there was emotion attached to the decisions, there was always uncertainty.  And to be fair, I too had the same qualities of uncertainty and doubt, but with focus, could discern where I was and what I wanted.

Great commentary!

JRB

[pjstock42]

I think this nails it. I wonder if many of you find that your BPDexs were not "conflict avoidant" per se, but "resolution avoidant".

My ex literally would not resolve issues. It started in the beginning as she would quite literally just get up and walk away, or leave, if we were together, and we were talking about an issue, big or small.

This is so spot on and I'd push it even further into being "decision avoidant" in general.

My ex would always bring up watching a certain tv show together or going to a park or to a movie etc. Whenever I would say to her "do you want to go do that thing you've been wanting to do today?" she wouldn't be able to say yes, she'd toss it back to me and end up just being noncommittal to the whole idea and choosing to do something else. After the discard and during the painting to black process, she then said she couldn't be with me because I never wanted to do those things that I mentioned before, despite how blatantly I had proposed doing these things numerous times only to be met by indifference. This wasn't even worth arguing against and it almost seems as though they're afraid to be decisive about anything because if any negatives come from it they could be "in the wrong" about something which is like poison to them.

She would choose for us to go to the same places every weekend which I was fine with because I just wanted to be spending time with her. She would say "can we do this thing even though it's always our normal routine? I hope it's not too boring" and I would agree. Then, again during the painting to black process, she accused me of never wanting to do new things together and always wanting to go to the same places. It's as though she was scared to choose something new to do because if it didn't work out, she imagined that I would resent her for it or something which to me makes no sense.

I remember one particular example that happened early on. I was always the one to choose places for us to go when we were newly dating so she picked one night and said that she wanted to choose things for us to do. We got to the restaurant she chose and there was an hour+ wait, I told her it was no big deal and we could just walk somewhere else since there were a multitude of options around. She wouldn't talk to me, and as we walked out of the restaurant she completely broke down and started crying uncontrollably and was inconsolable. I kept reassuring her that it was not a big deal at all but she wasn't having it, she simply could not stand that the plan she picked didn't work out to perfection and even though I clearly didn't mind at all, we had to walk down a quiet alley so that she could bawl while I tried to comfort her. The entire rest of the evening saw her in a sour mood, constantly bringing up how mad she was about her plan not working out and it was really quite ridiculous. I guess my point of sharing this story is to show how BPD individuals may be reluctant to make decisions, commit to things or resolve problems because if it leads to an unideal situation, they for some reason feel some intense kind of guilt/shame/disappointment that wouldn't affect a non-BPD person in the slightest.

We never really had any fights because I never got the devaluation stage but in the few that we did, she did exactly what you said GoingBack - she would simply leave the room and want to be alone and then act annoyed when I tried to talk to her and come to a mutual resolution. This can really drive you crazy especially if you are a problem solver because there's a problem right in front of you that seems so simple to fix but the person who you love simply makes it impossible for you to do it.

Additionally, I would say that the "conflict averse" part is still a true aspect of this as well. This was shown to me by how she discarded me by moving out of our apartment when I was at work and notifying me via a text message with no prior warning that anything in the relationship was less than ideal. She even said to me in the text that she couldn't stand to be around to see how crushed I would be - she basically just didn't want to face this conflict that she was creating solely by herself and more importantly she didn't want to take accountability for how her own irrational decision making could so severely affect another person.

[AmateurSamurai]

I love the idea of being resolution avoidant, as well as building walls.

During the process of using me in the triangulation with her ex, she threw the one photo I missed from social media from myself and a girl that was ten years old. We hadn't spoken in five years. Obviously these were the same.
This, of course, gave her the right to dismiss any of my concerns. The walls went up the moment I caught her in the first white lie, as though to protect against the inevitable crumbling down and abandonment.

I'm starting to see it all a bit more clearly as I come out of the fog of it all. I'm starting to get to a place of sympathy.
 I do regret my last email breaking down the play by play of why she has BPD sent in anger. Though, a part of me does hope that in five years, the honesty might help her if and when she ever decides to get help.

[Oncebitten]

resolution avoidant is absolutely true my on again off again gf does this all the time.  she is never afraid to pick a fight but every solution I come up with ia either stupid or won't work.  and if I should stumble across one that is foolproof and we start to make progress her mood will soften and she will change the topic.

a resolution would not allow her to use that as ammunition later.

amateursamurai know this of you haven't figured this out already... .emotions are truth and when the facts dont match emotions they are lies

[lovenature]

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a124.htm

[lovenature]

Welcome to bpdfamily

My other post has a link that you may find helpful with how you are feeling and what to expect.

There are a combination of things that make these relationships so painful and tough to detach from; projection, gas lighting, splitting, extreme emotions, being told over and over again things that don't match reality, constant criticisms. PwBPD have honed these defense mechanisms for years to protect themselves from emotions they can't sooth, they boil down to the pwBPD making up their own reality to fit their current emotion of the moment, and that goes for current, past, and future realities.

BPD is an attachment disorder; they need to attach to feel whole but then fear engulfment which will cause their partner to abandon them, so they push you away. When you go away their greatest fear of abandonment is realised, so they pull you back.
This is why the closer you get, the more they push you away; opposite of what you expect from a mature, healthy relationship.
The push/pull is very hurtful and confusing; the ones who love them the most are the ones they hurt the most.

Keep reading and posting, it does get better.