I need help

[lookingforanswer]

I am at my wits end with my husband. I need help. He has not been diagnosed with BPD but I'm guessing that's what the problem is. My mil also looks like she has BPD although things with her have been improving as problems with my h have gone downhill.

How can I get him into therapy?

I have been with him for over 30 years. Problems came up when we had kids 6 years into the marriage. I  knew before we got married that something was off with him but just thought it was due to his dysfunctional family life. Once we had kids, his mother went into hyperdrive to try to take over with the kids--without actually doing the crap work like changing diapers. My husband did not know how to control the intrusive behaviour and started screaming at me and the kids as a result. Maybe I didn't make it easy for him, but I needed to  protect the kids from her erratic behaviour.

Fast forward two kids later, and he is still so mad at me--either silence for days on end or screaming about every little thing. Then 2 years ago he sleeps with someone at work and the two of them are so stupid that they think they are hiding this from everyone. BTW she is NPD. Somewhere I read that NPD prey on BPD. In any case, I completely lose it and tell him EXACTLY what I have been thinking about his behaviour in this marriage. And I continue to do so. He went to marriage counselling for 6 months--this was a joke. The therapist wanted to know what I did to make him cheat on me. Are we kidding? He tried 3 other individual therapists. All three said that he most likely has an attachment disorder. I met with another recently and described his behaviors and he said that yes it sounds like BPD. He went to this guy once and never went back again.

How do I get him to get help when he doesn't want it? His behaviour is escalating to the point where I'm not sure what he will do. Any alternative treatments that will work?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[bobcat2014]

Looking,

Welcome to the board. I am very sorry you are dealing with this. Arming yourself with education and communication techniques is one way to help reduce some of the drama. These r/s are tough and no walk in the park. You know this already, especially if you think MIL has this as well. Her behavior was the template for his development. It's almost like these folks never had a chance... .

If you have been with him for 30 years, you probably recognize a reoccurring pattern of pathology on how he operates and processes emotions differently than you. Remember, this has nothing to do with you, but him. The T that called him out as a BPD, likely triggered his rejection fears (and a host of other core issues). The only help that will work, is that in which he takes on himself. Setting firm boundaries can help show him you are serious and might motivate him to seek help, but you cannot do this for him. I know you are frustrated to tell him what you think, and rightfully so. Learn the tools of SET and understand validation when you interact. This will help the communication process between you and him, and also let you speak your side.

You make a good point with his affair with another disordered person. All BPD are narcissistic, but all narcissistic people are not BPD. The NPD is really no match for the BPD, as the BPD knows the game better and understands the buttons to push. IMO, the NPD is more one dimensional than the borderline. There is also so many variations and overlap to these disorders, it can be impossible to define exactly what is going on. It is said, that people gravitate toward people with their own emotional level.

Alternative treatments? If his has other issues (BiP, depression, OCD, etc) then yes, medications can help. Both pwBPD (uBPD, dBPD) I know are on Cymbalta. This is not a solution or cure, but it does lessen the sensitivity and rage. Over time, it seems they are either a raging BPD or a zoned out zombie.

Hang in there, lookingforanswer... .

[lookingforanswer]

Thanks so much. I am having a VERY difficult time being sensitive to his emotions because truthfully having an affair is a deal breaker with me. I don't want to break up the family because I fear (and I think rightfully so) the children visiting him without my monitoring the situation from crazy. I also don't actually believe in divorce except in the case of abuse, which I am damn well close to right now and have been for a while.

So here I am stuck. I am angry. I don't really want to try with him, but I know it will make the kids' lives better. And I am extremely fearful that he will have an affair again. In fact I know that he will if the opportunity arises because I know he feels horrible about himself although he can't express it in a way that would make me feel better, and having an affair will alleviate some of his pain.

I'm feeling sick writing this because it shows just how hopeless the situation is.

I was actually looking for natural supplements, not prescriptions. I am somewhat of a holistic believer, although won't rule out prescriptions for him.

[bobcat2014]

So here I am stuck. I am angry. I don't really want to try with him, but I know it will make the kids' lives better.

I wont advise you on what to do. After 20+ years, I can see destructive relationship problems in my grown children. Why? I because I put up with everything to make my marriage work "for them". I had weak boundaries, and tolerated things that a normal functioning human would never, ever tolerate. The only thing this did was protect the kids from direct contact with the dirt balls my wife was screwing at the time. It wasn't noble, it was stupid, because I lacked courage to be alone and divorce her, but that's my problem to live with, not anyone else.

[lookingforanswer]

Thanks for this. This is my greatest fear. I am trying to counteract any damage done by pointing out the dysfunctional behaviour, mostly to my daughter who is just 14 but has been aware of our fighting for 2 years since I learned of the affair. My son, who was plugged in from the beginning and has told me that he knows that his father has a mental illness before I even let myself believe this. Kids have a sixth sense about these things. I usually say something like "what dad said is not normal. He has things a little wacky in his head. I just want to let you know in case it confuses you." Sometimes there's discussion and sometimes she just takes it in. I believe in the See Something Say Something rule! Keeping the kids in the dark isn't going to work.

I will continue to make sure that they are okay and when the time comes that they enter into relationships, I will make sure that their SO gets a mental health checkup first! Wish I knew then what I know now... .

Fighting anxiety this week because he is leaving on a business trip and of course I had the round of holiday horrors as described by others on this site. Not feeling good about this trip but I am excited about a few days of peace only to be followed by crazy H showing up after his trip. I just can't get over the betrayal of the affair. I of course as many others on this site do, take on the bulk of responsibilities at the house: kids, bills, two houses, entertaining, extended family, cleaning etc. I can't shift these to him because he freaks out. I think he is getting away with too much, but there's no way around it that I can see at this point. If I tell him to pay a bill, he will literally wait until it is overdue by a month before he gets around to it. If I ask him to clean, he yells at the kids to clean up the house. What the hell? I was never brought up this way.

So I'm wondering if you left your wife after the kids were grown? I'm not sure if that ever solves the problem, but it's something to think about. I have 4 more years and then I could be possibly done.

[Overseas1899]

I found the behaviour lessened significantly when I changed my own behaviour and developed boundaries. I felt and still feel angry about this situation and that I am the one making changes and trying to manage this nonsense. However, you make those changes with the children in mind. No matter what you do, stay or leave, they will be in contact with him and you can model for them how to manage his behaviour. You are not stuck. You have made a choice and that is, currently, to stay.
I also wonder what I might do when the kids leave home. Interested to hear more from others who have been though this.
Please know that you are not alone.

[bobcat2014]

I will continue to make sure that they are okay and when the time comes that they enter into relationships, I will make sure that their SO gets a mental health checkup first! Wish I knew then what I know now... .

I can't shift these to him because he freaks out. I think he is getting away with too much, but there's no way around it that I can see at this point. If I tell him to pay a bill, he will literally wait until it is overdue by a month before he gets around to it. If I ask him to clean, he yells at the kids to clean up the house. What the hell? I was never brought up this way.

So I'm wondering if you left your wife after the kids were grown? I'm not sure if that ever solves the problem, but it's something to think about. I have 4 more years and then I could be possibly done.

Yep. I interview most of the people my kids bring home. It doesn't help really, especially with my daughters.

The sooner you realize you have an adult child H, the better. It can be amazing how selective they can be with their abilities. Mine will play the role of house cat and leave the domestic duties for me. Money is another thing. She loves to try and control the money and hide the habitual spending that dubiously fills her bottomless pit of needs.

No. I am still married. Setting boundaries helped a lot. I still get $hit tested daily and we have replaced true intimacy with a barter system that ensures she always gets something in return for her time and effort. Overall, it has calmed down since calling her bluff a time or two. It is better when you don't feed the (drama, rage, etc) problem and let them "self soothe" in their own way.

To make it work, there is always a distraction. Home project, co-worker drama, or facebook crisis that distracts her from her own reality and empty feelings. When things go quiet and nothing is on the horizon, is when it gets worse for me and I become the target. I dread holidays, and basically October thru May since little distraction happens then.

The more I feel I don't really care about what happens, the easier it has become to set boundaries and move them closer to normal. I have conceded to the fact that things will always be chaotic with BPD and no pill, therapy or intervention can ever change that. I know it is a matter of time (7 year itch) before I am recycled and replaced by a fresh supply of attention from someone else. I gave the last guy a bad beat down, but in reality I should have shook his hand and helped move her junk in with him... .

[Lockjaw]

Not BPD related, but I stayed with my EX for the sake of our children, and it was a mistake. The kids will have issues no matter what, the sooner you get out, the sooner you can work on them with the kids.

On top of that, you can get back into having a normal life. I went without any physical contact (my choice) between me and her for over 7 years. For a dude, that causes issues with your man parts. My Testosterone fell way low, and I gained some weight. I was on a big dose of antidepressants just to stay numb and not go postal. I got into a place where I didn't care about much of anything.

I can't tell you the relief I felt the day I came home and she was gone. I had been done for so long. I met someone through all of this, who is, at least a woman with traits of BPD, and we have our issues too, but I tell you what, being touched again, being intimate, having someone I like to be around, when there isn't an argument, is just a blessing.

I dropped my dose of antidepressants, I give myself T shots, and I lost nearly 40 pounds. I feel better, and I look better. It makes me a better dad.

The saddest part is missing out on sex. I went over 7 years. Of prime years for me too. I regret it now, that I let myself do that. I know my kids should come first, but I am a much better dad now. And dang, it feels good to have someone touch me that I want to touch me.

[bobcat2014]

Not BPD related, but I stayed with my EX for the sake of our children, and it was a mistake. The kids will have issues no matter what, the sooner you get out, the sooner you can work on them with the kids.

On top of that, you can get back into having a normal life. I went without any physical contact (my choice) between me and her for over 7 years. For a dude, that causes issues with your man parts. My Testosterone fell way low, and I gained some weight. I was on a big dose of antidepressants just to stay numb and not go postal. I got into a place where I didn't care about much of anything.

I can't tell you the relief I felt the day I came home and she was gone. I had been done for so long. I met someone through all of this, who is, at least a woman with traits of BPD, and we have our issues too, but I tell you what, being touched again, being intimate, having someone I like to be around, when there isn't an argument, is just a blessing.

I dropped my dose of antidepressants, I give myself T shots, and I lost nearly 40 pounds. I feel better, and I look better. It makes me a better dad.

The saddest part is missing out on sex. I went over 7 years. Of prime years for me too. I regret it now, that I let myself do that. I know my kids should come first, but I am a much better dad now. And dang, it feels good to have someone touch me that I want to touch me.

Lockjaw,

Looking back, I struggled more with emotional and personality changes. I have little tolerance for people anymore and question what disorder I struggle with myself. As a running joke, my co-workers never say I look happy, but that I look a little less pissed off. Years ago, I took up MMA and it helped me have an outlet and learn control, but also gave my uBPDw another potential thing to kitchen sink me with later. I use a lot of energy dealing with her, keeping my head and learning to survive in the matrix. Energy better served elsewhere. I have really felt lost lately... .

[isilme]

Hi there.  I will say one thing as a person on ere not just to cope with a BPD partner but also to heal from being raised by two people with it - if leaving IS better for the kids, it's better for the kids.  I'm not telling you to do so, but at one point my parents were literally trying to kill each other and themselves.  I was 10 the first time I had to intervene in a suicide attempt.  I was 15 when I was big enough to prevent murder.  Once we got away from my mom, dad, who was cruel and damaged me just as much, at least was gone much of the time and I was able to be away from both of them enough to find ME hiding under all the layers of disassociation and fear.  Once dad kicked me out, finally, I was able to get away from him, too, and finally was able to process things that went on at home, and am still learning how bad it really was and how much of a miracle it is that I survived.

Now, to address staying:  You CAN'T make him want therapy.  But you can go.  You can do what YOU need to do to take care of you.  You can choose to not be there for a fight.  Toss the kids and yourself into a car and go for a drive, have an errand on hand that MUST be done, something to break the cycle.  I found that as I changed my responses to H's outbursts, they got a little better.  They never go away, and some will still be huge freakouts, but overall, they seem to be less.  I try to not take each and every poke personally.  It's hard on days like today when I am ill, and tired, and yes, it's not a fair distribution of emotional load in any way - YOU are in theory less damaged, and more capable of handling your emotions.  So sadly, the burden falls to you to make the changes in your current dynamic.  So step one - determine what you can do to take care of you.  If it's continuing in personal therapy, good.  If it's not standing there and being a receptacle for insults, then plan a few ways you can leave.  If it's realizing that validating his feelings does not mean you have to accept blame you don't own, or agree with him, good. Small steps.