Not Sure How to Leave / How to Protect Our Child

[Aiming4Kindness]

Hi there,

I'm a 39 year old male.  My fiancee' (with BPD) is 31 years old.  We had a child together in April.

After seeing a couples counselor for 18 months and three separate therapists on my own to gain additional perspectives, I've decided that I need to leave this relationship.  I've informed close friends and family, scheduled a weekly session with the therapist I like best, and found a lawyer I can call if/when needed.

My fiancee' is a chiropractor, but she stopped working in order to care for our child.  The practice where she worked pre-baby has since closed, though she's been seeing a few patients a week at our home (which I own).  She has very little savings and a very low credit score; however, before we moved in together, she lived for free at a condo her mom owns.  The condo is currently being rented out, and the lease requires 30 days notice to get the current tenants out of there.

My fiancee's immediate family are in Paris (we're in the U.S.).  She does not have a very close relationship with either parent, especially since she recently learned information about her childhood that points to neglect by her parents and abuse by her older brother.

Given these realities, what I haven't figured out are the following:

1) Where and how do I communicate that the relationship is over? The last time I tried to do this, my partner ended up passing out on the floor and having convulsions.  (When she gets angry or fearful, her body often shuts down... .We've been to the ER after a number of intense arguments due to chest pain and a very rapid heart rate arising in her.  During the past few weeks, during moments when she wasn't feeling well, she's made side comments about killing herself.)

2) How do I take care of my fiancee'?  I don't want to make life harder for her during this transition, especially since any added stress will likely impact our child.  Nearly all of the furniture she had has been sold, and as I mentioned above, she doesn't have much savings right now. 

3) How do I take care of our child?

4) How do I take care of myself during and immediately after the conversation?

With appreciation beyond measure... .

[hope2727]

I am so sorry you are experiencing this. I wish I had some good advice for you. I really don't at the moment but I wanted you to know you are not alone. I highly suggest reading the lessons on the right hand side of the page. They helped me a lot. Meanwhile post on multiple boards if it seems appropriate. There are many people here with a great deal of experience. I wish I had more inspiring words tonight but I am exhausted and truly don't. I want you to know you are not alone in this. There are others out there who understand.

Hugs.   

[takingandsending]

Hello Aiming,

I am so sorry to hear of your difficult situation. The suicidal ideation is very concerning, and there are resources and articles on this website about how you can help your partner.

1) There are very good communication tools on the right side of the web page. Tools such as SET (Sympathy, Empathy, Truth) can be effective when our BPD partners are in a calm place. They simply don't work that well when our partners are emotionally dysregulated. Would it be possible to communicate this, using SET, with a therapist there for support? That way, if she does have suicidal thoughts, they can be discussed with professional help. Incidentally, body reactions are common for pwBPD when their emotions become uncontrolled. Actually, we all have body reactions accompanying emotions, but they can be intense and frequent for pwBPD. Biggest thing for you is to know how to not make the emotional escalations worse. A lot of validation and empathy helps, but again, during dysregulation, sometimes gently breaking away and promising to return in 30 minutes and then following through on that time to return help de-escalate the argument. Basically, pwBPD look to others to help them regulate their emotions, so trying to use logic, JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain), or go silent/non-responsive simply fans the flames of the emotional upset.

2) Can you provide a few more details? How long have you been living with your fiancee? Based on discussions with your lawyer, are you subject to division of property (regardless of who owns what)? I am in process of divorcing my wife - we have 2 children - and likewise, my wife only has limited client based work out of our house. I understand your concern, but am not certain if you will be required to pay maintenance, child support and divide property. I would ask your lawyer if they have experience working with BPD clients or clients that have BPD partner/spouse. If not, you may want to find one that does. I am using a collaborative attorney, and he has specific experience with BPD/NPD, both as his client and as his client's spouse. It really helps.

3) Your child is very young, so maintaining his/her safety and well being is tantamount, especially if mom is having suicidal ideation. Do you have family and support people in your life that can help you with caring for your child? Do you feel able to put together a support network for your baby?

4) You are seeing a T weekly, so that's a good start. Also, doing anything that gives you a breather from your situation is helpful before and after your talk. With respect to the conversation, it may help to see disengagement as a process (one it sounds like you have been in for a while now) so that you don't get too anxious about one, big conversation to end things. She is still the mother of your child, and you still see yourself in a role of helping her in some way, so odds are you are going to be communicating over a period of time with her. Given that, the best things you can do to take care of yourself are to read the lessons on the right of the page and start posting questions here. Take a real inventory of yourself at this point in life. You came to be where you are right now for specific reasons - how are your boundaries, how is your self value and so forth. Take the time now to know yourself and your tendencies so that you can be with yourself during upcoming discussions with your fiancee. For example, when my wife and I have a discussion that moves into conflict, I know my signals of shutting down now: body temperature goes up, gut hurts, jaw/ear/neck muscles tense. When I notice these happening, I know I am feeling vulnerable, and it is time for a boundary.

Please keep posting questions and experiences. Especially after taking a look through the Lessons on the web page. People here are very helpful in talking through different scenarios. Hang in there.

[Aiming4Kindness]

2) Can you provide a few more details? How long have you been living with your fiancee? Based on discussions with your lawyer, are you subject to division of property (regardless of who owns what)? I am in process of divorcing my wife - we have 2 children - and likewise, my wife only has limited client based work out of our house. I understand your concern, but am not certain if you will be required to pay maintenance, child support and divide property. I would ask your lawyer if they have experience working with BPD clients or clients that have BPD partner/spouse. If not, you may want to find one that does. I am using a collaborative attorney, and he has specific experience with BPD/NPD, both as his client and as his client's spouse. It really helps.

We've been living together since the end of 2015.

Since we're not married, there won't be any property divisions.

The lawyer I found specializes in separations with BPD partners.  He got into the field after divorcing his wife with BPD.

3) Your child is very young, so maintaining his/her safety and well being is tantamount, especially if mom is having suicidal ideation. Do you have family and support people in your life that can help you with caring for your child? Do you feel able to put together a support network for your baby?

I have number of family members who will be there for us.

4) You are seeing a T weekly, so that's a good start. Also, doing anything that gives you a breather from your situation is helpful before and after your talk. With respect to the conversation, it may help to see disengagement as a process (one it sounds like you have been in for a while now) so that you don't get too anxious about one, big conversation to end things. She is still the mother of your child, and you still see yourself in a role of helping her in some way, so odds are you are going to be communicating over a period of time with her. Given that, the best things you can do to take care of yourself are to read the lessons on the right of the page and start posting questions here. Take a real inventory of yourself at this point in life. You came to be where you are right now for specific reasons - how are your boundaries, how is your self value and so forth. Take the time now to know yourself and your tendencies so that you can be with yourself during upcoming discussions with your fiancee. For example, when my wife and I have a discussion that moves into conflict, I know my signals of shutting down now: body temperature goes up, gut hurts, jaw/ear/neck muscles tense. When I notice these happening, I know I am feeling vulnerable, and it is time for a boundary.

Thanks so much.  Yeah, after speaking with the lawyer yesterday, he explained that a lot of planning needs to occur before separating.  It's truly mind boggling.  It's so helpful to finally have somebody telling me exactly what needs to happen.

And believe me, I'm using my therapy sessions to take a massive inventory.


Please keep posting questions and experiences. Especially after taking a look through the Lessons on the web page. People here are very helpful in talking through different scenarios. Hang in there.

[ForeverDad]

Are these panic attacks?  Is she in therapy?

Regarding suicidal threats, the correct response is to get help, perhaps calling 911 especially if she sounds serious.  The point is that you're not trained to determine whether it's (1) a real suicidal state or (2) control & manipulation efforts.  Generally its one or the other.  Odds are, it's her way to try to get control of you and perhaps others.  A couple visits by EMT or hospital visits ought to clarify which it is.

Warning.  It is almost certain that if you call 911 for suicidal thoughts she won't thank you.  Panic attacks, yes, suicidal, no.  When they arrive she will have surprisingly recovered and deny, blaming you for lying.  So if you do decide to call, have some documentation she really did say what you report she said.  (I recorded myself whenever my then-spouse was ranting and raging, or about to.  I knew she would deny and blame shift.  My official reason for recording was to ensure I could prove I wasn't the one acting badly.  If it happened to record her raging, well... .)

I don't want to make life harder for her during this transition... .

She probably picked a relationship with you because she sensed you would care and hence be pliable, even controllable.  You are a caring person, but separation and divorce requires a level head.  Don't be mean or vindictive, but be overall businesslike.  The focus is not her (an adult and viewed by courts as an adult), rather it's your baby (a minor who needs guidance and protection).  Can you focus first on your child?  Otherwise you will have a very conflicted life being pulled every which way by her ever-changing perceptions and moods.

[Aiming4Kindness]

Are these panic attacks?  Is she in therapy?

We've been in couples counseling for about a year and a half... .shortly after we got pregnant.  We actually broke up shortly thereafter, and I thought she was going to have an abortion, but she showed up at my house one afternoon, told me she's going to move back to her home country and have the baby, and then... .the rest is history.  I begged her not to go if she was committed to having the baby... .told her I'd do whatever I need to do to change to make things better. Oy.

This past spring, when I was about to leave, she committed to going to therapy one-on-one with our couples counselor.  She did so for a month or so.  Our CC has been convinced up until recently that she's not BPD, but after referring me to a colleague of his (the CC thought I was hurting the relationship by bringing "unresolved childhood traumas" into the relationship), his colleague convinced him that I was perfectly normal and simply responding to living with somebody with a borderline personality style.  I recently e-mailed the CC to learn what formal training he has around BPDs... .still waiting to hear back.

Regarding suicidal threats, the correct response is to get help, perhaps calling 911 especially if she sounds serious.  The point is that you're not trained to determine whether it's (1) a real suicidal state or (2) control & manipulation efforts.  Generally its one or the other.  Odds are, it's her way to try to get control of you and perhaps others.  A couple visits by EMT or hospital visits ought to clarify which it is.

Warning.  It is almost certain that if you call 911 for suicidal thoughts she won't thank you.  Panic attacks, yes, suicidal, no.  When they arrive she will have surprisingly recovered and deny, blaming you for lying.  So if you do decide to call, have some documentation she really did say what you report she said.  (I recorded myself whenever my then-spouse was ranting and raging, or about to.  I knew she would deny and blame shift.  My official reason for recording was to ensure I could prove I wasn't the one acting badly.  If it happened to record her raging, well... .)

Funny you mention this.  Just last Thursday night, we got into a fight and she called me all sorts of terrible things.  I left the bedroom, and a few minutes later, heard a loud thump.  She was on the floor, next to the bed with minor convulsions.  Similar events have happened before, in which I spend an hour or more on the floor with her, trying to get her on her feet.  This time, I called 911.  They showed up, found her blood sugar was low (she had refused to eat dinner earlier), and tried to convince her to go to the hospital.  She refused.  When they left, she railed into me about how horrible of a person I am for letting her starve and letting her blood sugar crash.

She probably picked a relationship with you because she sensed you would care and hence be pliable, even controllable.  You are a caring person, but separation and divorce requires a level head.  Don't be mean or vindictive, but be overall businesslike.  The focus is not her (an adult and viewed by courts as an adult), rather it's your baby (a minor who needs guidance and protection).  Can you focus first on your child?  Otherwise you will have a very conflicted life being pulled every which way by her ever-changing perceptions and moods.

Thanks for the guidance/reminder.  Yes, I have to focus on my child.

[livednlearned]

It's probably a good idea to tell her that you are not trained to handle medical issues like convulsions, and will call 911 again if it happens. And same for suicidal ideation. The book Stop Caring for the Borderline/Narcissist in Your Life has some helpful phrases if you are wracked with guilt or obligation about delivering difficult news to a BPD sufferer. There are also some good SET phrases in Loving Someone with BPD by Shari Manning that are specifically about suicidal ideation and double binds (where you are darned if you do help, darned if you don't).

On another note (about the guilt... .) My ex had a bit of a psychotic thing happen early in our marriage, and I managed it in isolation without help and looked the other way as though it never happened. My T pointed out that if I had shone some light on it, called 911, it would have warranted therapeutic intervention and gotten professionals involved in a condition that was in fact way, way over my head. Most importantly, it would've started to document a pattern of serious issues that required serious attention, maybe even bringing good/difficult things into the equation instead of me trying to hold it all together alone.

In other words, if your GF passes out at the thought of breaking up, she needs much more serious therapy than couples counseling, and shining light on that condition is better in the long term for her and for your child.

[Aiming4Kindness]

Thanks so much, livednlearned.  I really appreciate you sharing your wisdom.