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Author Topic: Biologically there's a reason the lying is upsetting and scary to me.  (Read 459 times)
HopinAndPrayin
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What is your sexual orientation: Confidential
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
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« on: August 14, 2017, 01:11:06 PM »

This is about learning about lying, not about divorce, although the context of the lessons learned came up in relation to the divorce discussion.  I'm hoping this stays on the Learning board!

I met up with my stbxhBPD on Friday to sign the updated Marital Settlement Agreement.  I had learned the week before he had been fired from his job.  It was a doozy of a meeting, but I felt good going in because I was already protected by an earlier version of the MSA.

We were talking through the one outstanding piece that needed to be negotiated - dividing up the credit card debt.  He balked because he couldn't afford to pay it - either before or after the firing (not my problem unless he doesn't pay it).  Normally, I would steer clear of problem solving with him, unless asked, but given how he has a tendency to light the match and walk away while everything burns down, I offered to help him think it through so I wasn't saddled with the debt at 24% APR.  Usually, especially when there's financial reckoning, his dad bails him out.  I suggested as much for this, but knowing how his dad hates me didn't see it as a likely option.  I also asked if he had severance and I knew about his retirement account as we prepped the MSA.  He said he had gotten severance, but it wouldn't cover the full amount.  He wanted to think it through on his own and would get back to me with his plan by the EOD.  (At 9 p.m. he texted and said he either wanted more household goods or wasn't going to pay his half.  His negotiation skills were very "this is the way we're going to do it," when he really doesn't have say over the matter.  I almost texted back, oh sweetie, it's the law, not your choice... .and all the furnishings were pre-marital assets, but enflaming the situation seemed counter productive.)

I asked him when he was terminated because if it was July, then the medical benefits wouldn't be active for this month and I had some outstanding appointments, could he tell me when it happened so I could plan accordingly, or alternately, could he tell me what was in his severance agreement related to benefits and COBRA because I am on his healthcare plan in addition to my own.  Only his had any fertility medication benefits left and I intend to use it, which I also didn't share.  He said it was a convoluted process and he's not really sure what he gets or when because the severance folks haven't reached out.

The conversation devolved after that.  He claimed he was getting severance but the benefits people had to reach out to the severance folks and that could drag on for an extended period of time (definitely not the way it works in a large corporation like the one he works for).  He then went on to say that he hadn't been fired, he had given notice, but they didn't let him work the two weeks instead saying that that day would be his final day and walked him out.  He doesn't work for a financial services firm or an attorney, so there's really no reason this would have reasonably happened.  Also, my company has done consulting for their HR, so I knew their policy from a friend of mine.  Instead of arguing, I decided to go along with it and asked what his new employer and title was or if he was going back to school as I would need that information on my divorce filing (it's part of the paperwork in this state).  There was silence.  So, I said, ok, I'll leave it as your old title and employer.

Everything in that interaction was just like our marriage had been... .lying, hiding things that would have a tremendous financial impact, then a shocking surprise without any head's up even though he had known about it for a while.  (I recalled another incident when I found out about it months later and he was incredulous that I was upset because it had happened months ago.  Yes, dear, but I'm just finding out about it now, so it's happening right now to me.)  

All night Friday I was frustrated by the lying.  He knows I used to work in employment law and did large scale and small scale terminations and reductions in force for years (not the best years of my life).  I couldn't tell if he was lying to save face, to make it sound like I had it wrong, because he thinks he's that good a liar, if he thinks I'm that stupid to believe him, or if it was he couldn't deal with the reality of rejection.  So many options!

I remembered his saying when he first moved in that no one had responded to his resume, omitting that he hadn't submitted it to anyone, which as you know definitely cuts down on folks responding.  It just flooded me with all these memories of his lies and how simple and bad they were... .so easy to find out just by saying, ok, can you show me?  That's what I had been doing since 2013.  Yes, 2013.  Hello my own denial on how much a problem it is, there you are!  

It also helped me not be so angry for the past.  This guy is so clearly deeply troubled.  He lies so much he may not even know what reality is anymore.  He has severe psychotic dissociative episodes.  Instead of being angry about why he married me in the first place (which I was angry about for YEARS) or angry about why he didn't work harder in therapy to acquire skills to manage his emotions (and himself), I was able to see his illness in those moments and worry about what the future will be like for him without someone to care for him.  My T was reinforcing last month that it is severe enough to require institutionalization.

That said, I had this reflective moment of, ok, why does it feel so personal when you know someone is lying?  I had an issue at work with a team I was working with where leadership was outright (and unskillfully) lying.  I documented the heck out of it and submitted it to Ethics & Compliance and HR.  It really upset me.  But I was also watching the news and listening to reporters who were outright frustrated with being told blatant misinformation and obfuscation (I'm in the US, so you can imagine what it was related to).  I decided to GTS (Google that Stuff - cough, cough).

Turns out, being knowingly lied to or hearing negative and threatening information about others has our nervous system perceive them as a threat - as much as a bear.  We are social animals and need trust and reliability to protect ourselves as a community.  When someone doesn't follow those societal rules, they endanger the survival of individuals within the group.   This was an article I found that was so helpful in unpacking what I was feeling after that interaction with my stbxhBPD.  

www.huffingtonpost.com/david-ropeik/clemensgate-why-liars-mak_b_690471.html

This helped me see that biologically there's a reason the lying is upsetting and scary to me.  I thought I was just overblowing it before when we were married and geez, why couldn't I have handled it better (as I posted elsewhere, there was a lot of early self-blame).  It really cemented for me the chaos, the uncertainty, the fear of what was coming next that I was intentionally being misled about was real.  It was something that I had doubted when I was experiencing it way back when.  And it also helped me see, this wasn't something that could have been negotiated or resolved between us.  This is a maladaptive survival skill for my spouse that terrified and endangered me.

It felt really great to read about it, understand it as a nearly universal experience (folks with ASPD don't feel that fear about being lied to by others or feel that guilt about lying) and be able to have more context for my feelings all these years.  Maybe I'm not as idealistic, stubborn, and difficult as I was made to believe by my FOO, that team at work, and my stbxhBPD.  Maybe I'm standing up for morals and ethics that in non-dysfunctional systems are good and beneficial to self and group.  That's what my T has been telling me for months.  I'm not rigid or overly righteous, I just see the value of society's rules and why they are in place to promote group safety.  It was a pretty great moment.

I get the whole feelings equal facts thing that challenges a lot of BPDs.  There's an additional component with my ex that may or may not be common with your experience.  The lesson I took away from this is that lying feels dangerous for a really good survival reason.  Being exposed to lies for an extended period of time is exactly why I felt so unsafe.  Going forward, if I think someone is lying, I'm going to trust my gut.  My gut is legit.
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