Impossible Situation

[5xFive]

So, we had a great weekend. After staying up until nearly 2am, talking, validating each other and trying to move forward, the weekend was calm and relaxing. And then Monday morning happened. Every Monday, it doesn't matter what happens over the weekend, Monday's trigger him into dysregulation.

So, today he has decided that he is buying a gun on Friday (pay day). That he has no other options because I refuse to do what he needs me to do. He hates living in Florida, and if I won't figure out how to sell the house, move the kids, get new jobs for both of us (without taking pay cuts), and move somewhere different BY FRIDAY, he is going to kill himself. What kind of ultimatum is this, I ask you? How the f am I supposed to make that happen?

I asked him why he feels this is his only option, does he really want to die. He says he does really want to die, bc he doesn't want to live the rest of his life in misery and as long as we are on Florida, he will be miserable. But his job is state specific. There is no corresponding position in other states, he would take a SIGNIFICANT pay cut to leave. Also, our house has holey walls from his last few rages, and we don't have enough money to get the drywall to fix them yet. I can't even have a realtor come look at the place, they would laugh all the way out the door.
I asked if he would consider therapy and he said why should he have to sacrifice more to live a life he doesn't want? He would rather kill himself. I asked him, what about our children? He said better they grow up without a father, than with a father who is miserable (and this is when the circle in my head begins bc what the heck about therapy?)

ugh, any suggestions on how to handle this? He has been threatening to kill himself for the last 17 years. I want to take him seriously every time but really I am as tired of hearing it as I am hearing that he wants a divorce... .

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Tattered Heart]

Has he every gone so far as to start making plans?

What would happen if you were to call a crisis center or get a police escort to a local hospital for a 96 hours hold?

[Radcliff]

Hi Monucka.  Oh boy.  I am so sorry you're facing all of this.  I am familiar with decades long threats of divorce, and especially with being placed in impossible situations where I would have to have magical powers and a time travel machine to satisfy demands.  In my relationship I don't want to overreact and cry wolf when the threats have been empty for years, but I also don't want to miss a critical change and not prevent disaster.

I am not at all an expert at this, but the threat to buy a gun is very concerning.  Of course, he may be just saying something to provoke a response from you.  But if he were to follow through, having a gun in the house markedly increases the danger for him, you, and the children.  You have definitely entered into territory where it would be really good to talk to local crisis resources, have a safety exit plan, etc.

A good near term goal is to prevent purchase of the gun.  Maybe he'll forget about it.  :)irectly addressing the issue may not be effective (wouldn't be with my wife; your mileage may vary).  :)istracting him or thinking of other ideas of things to do with the payday money could be good.  How can you keep him busy over the weekend?

B.t.w., you can totally patch drywall if you want to.  It's actually a little bit fun.  Probably the last thing on your list, but PM me if you want to hear more.  

[5xFive]

Has he every gone so far as to start making plans?

What would happen if you were to call a crisis center or get a police escort to a local hospital for a 96 hours hold?

His plan is just to buy a pistol, but I don't know more than that. He has been threatening to kill himself for YEARS. He often tells me that he has eaten pills. Two weeks ago, he sent me a goodbye suicide video in which he blamed me for everything and said the reason he was killing himself was because of me. That was fun.

About 2 years ago, I got really tired of it and I called the cops. I left work and met them at home. They came and took him for a psychiatric hold. But when he sat down for intake with the psychiatrist, this apparent medical professional decided that he was just under a lot of stress at work, and said some things he didn't mean to say. So they did NOT hold him. That was probably the worst weekend I can remember - the threats of never trusting me again, of embarrassing him, of not knowing that he wouldn't kill himself, of ME overreacting, etc.

So now I am paralyzed with fear. Do I react as if he's serious and then deal with the fall out and rage for not realizing that he was just talking out his a*s or do I not react, and if he IS serious this time, would I ever forgive myself? Would my children ever forgive me? If he's not serious and I treat it that way, he's going to keep using it to trigger me. If I don't take it seriously, he might attempt to kill himself out of spite. Ugh ugh ugh

[5xFive]

having a gun in the house markedly increases the danger for him, you, and the children.  

Yes. I think it is a terrible idea. I have said that for years and years. And when he is in a good head space, he agrees that it is a bad idea.

I do think he is trying to get a reaction out of me. Or use the MOST dire situation he can think of to express his pain to me, and he thinks the only way that I will understand how much pain he is in is if he threatens suicide. I think this goes back to me trying to validate and failing, or being invalidating unintentionally. Or my jadeing etc. I feel like, if I could JUST get the hang of these skills - wise mind, validation, no jadeing, that maybe he would feel heard and therefore less in the pit of despair. But I am struggling with it, and I certainly won't have it mastered before Friday. Already- twice today- he told me that I was being invalidating when I was SURE I was validating his feelings!

[Radcliff]

So now I am paralyzed with fear. Do I react as if he's serious and then deal with the fall out and rage for not realizing that he was just talking out his a*s or do I not react, and if he IS serious this time, would I ever forgive myself? Would my children ever forgive me? If he's not serious and I treat it that way, he's going to keep using it to trigger me. If I don't take it seriously, he might attempt to kill himself out of spite. Ugh ugh ugh

That totally sucks.  I understand what you're talking about. OK, probably not the weekend to patch drywall

Already- twice today- he told me that I was being invalidating when I was SURE I was validating his feelings!

That sounds like one of those situations that the phrase "crazymaking" was made for.  Which end is up?  It can drive you nuts.

W.r.t. the impossible demands for Friday, maybe take inspiration from the "partial validation" idea.  When your pwBPD says a whole bunch of invalid stuff you don't want to validate, you can feel stuck -- you can't validate the invalid, but it's also probably not worthwhile to confront them on the BS.  A useful technique is to pick some part of what they said that is true, and validate that.  I've tried it, and it's been pretty handy a few times.  You could adapt that approach, and pick some part of what he's asking for that's reasonable.  Is there anything you could do towards building a life that you and he want that he may see as supporting him?

[5xFive]

Is there anything you could do towards building a life that you and he want that he may see as supporting him?

I wish I knew! When I ask him, he answers that I know the answer - leaving Florida. He does ask for little things like not saying I am sorry, stuff like that, but when I tell him I am trying to give him the little things, he says he has 17 years of negative emotions pent up and its not enough. But Friday, after our wonderful talk, he said if he could just have the little things, he would be able to function. Its very confusing. I never know who to believe. It would be so much easier if both Jekyll and Hyde said the same things. I would totally know how to act!

He says he doesn't want to live "this" life. He wants to live life a different way.
(I don't have a clue what this means but) Great, lets do that!
Its too late.
Ok... .?

Then back to the depression and suicide talk bc I am not willing to do what it takes to make the sacrifice for him, like he made for me by moving here. I am SO willing! I just don't know what the freaking sacrifice is supposed to be! Argh

[Radcliff]

Hi Monucka, two things about your response resonated with me.  You said he wants you to sacrifice, and that he says things are too late.  I get both of those, and this is the first time I've seen them from someone else on the board.  The sacrifice thing is complicated, because I think it's part real, and part BPD.  It definitely took me a long time to mature and understand work/family balance, etc., and she moved thousands of miles away from her family to be with me, so there's plenty of realness there, but she mentions sacrifice so much that I think it must be a BPD thing, too.  Perhaps wanting an impossible level of proof that I love her, yet never believing that I do.

I also get "it's too late."  But I get it constantly, and she continues for years and years to not follow through on divorce threats.  If it really was too late when she said it in 2007, why is she still with me in 2017?  This "too late" thinking is so illogical, and it makes them and us miss chances to improve things, which is very frustrating.

You said you were worried about payday tomorrow.  What's the "weather" like there?  Are you feeling a little safer, or not so much, as you head into the weekend?

You might be interested in taking the MOSAIC risk assessment questionnaire.  It takes about 20 minutes, asks you a bunch of questions about what's going on, and gives you a risk score.  It's built on law enforcement databases about violent events and what prior factors were in place.  (I took it and found it helpful.  Just answering the questions, I learned about various factors that can increase or decrease risk)  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=301379
Do you have local support to help you cope with his suicide threats?

[5xFive]

Perhaps wanting an impossible level of proof that I love her, yet never believing that I do.

Yes! You might be right. I hear them both so much, I feel like now I'm becoming numb to them like the villagers in "The boy who cried wolf". But that's not good! Because there is genuine emotion under the words that don't make any sense. I constantly have to remind myself of this because when I forget, I act invalidating. LOTS of eye rolls (it's horrible- sometimes I don't even realize they're rolling around in my head like they are!)

You said you were worried about payday tomorrow.  What's the "weather" like there?  Are you feeling a little safer, or not so much, as you head into the weekend?

Yes. And no. He told me I couldn't spend ANY of his check. Then he came back and said he would never do that to our family. Then he got a raise at work- a big one! Then he said I can spend his check on bills, daycare, groceries etc but only up to his previous pay rate. The increase and any overtime he works is his and his alone, and he is not going to use it to contribute to a family that refuses to (here it is again) sacrifice for him.
So I validated that. While things are tight, really tight, I have a budget based on that pay rate so I don't need to change it, it would truly only go to credit card payments anyway, getting us out of debt sooner. But whatever, if that makes him feel in control, I'm not going to fight that battle.

But THEN he got so angry with me bc there wasn't enough in the bank for him to buy lunch yesterday. I spend every penny that's in the bank on bills. I never spend any money on myself, and we were even short our daycare payment this week. But I paid $150 to his credit card last payday. Should have been more than enough for 2 weeks of lunches. But when he was splitting me white? Sent me flowers at work. One week later, his credit card is maxed (it has a really low limit- just for allowance) and I have ruined his life. He works and he works for a life he doesn't want, and he can't even buy himself food. So now I resent my beautiful flowers. Lol.

You might be interested in taking the MOSAIC risk assessment questionnaire.  It takes about 20 minutes, asks you a bunch of questions about what's going on, and gives you a risk score.  It's built on law enforcement databases about violent events and what prior factors were in place.  (I took it and found it helpful.  Just answering the questions, I learned about various factors that can increase or decrease risk)  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=301379
Do you have local support to help you cope with his suicide threats?

I will check this out.

No local support. My mom is trying. She just started reading eggshells actually! She had been calling him a "dry alcoholic" for years bc she is in the program. I've been telling her for the last 3 years at least that I'm sure it's BPD. She has only recently started hearing me and trying to learn about it to help me. I had an amazing T who helped point me in this direction to begin with, but when the baby was born, I couldn't afford her anymore. I'll go back to her again when daycare costs a little less, we might as well be paying two mortgages at this point- the daycare is more than our monthly mortgage.

[Radcliff]

there is genuine emotion under the words that don't make any sense. I constantly have to remind myself of this because when I forget, I act invalidating. LOTS of eye rolls (it's horrible- sometimes I don't even realize they're rolling around in my head like they are!)

I'm going to try giving you a gentle hard time about eye rolls   Did you know that it takes a man a week to recover from an eye roll?  OK, I made that up.  And the accidental eye roll?  Use your powers wisely, friend!  Seriously, a woman's eye roll instantly debilitates the part of a man's brain responsible for rational thought.  If you want to put some skin in the game, and this worked within the framework of your relationship, you could offer to pay him $5 for every eye roll for a month (adjust the number according to your budget and your anticipated monthly eye role tally   But he'd have to pony up a reward for you at the end of the month if you meet some eye role goal!

Then he got a raise at work- a big one! Then he said I can spend his check on bills, daycare, groceries etc but only up to his previous pay rate. The increase and any overtime he works is his and his alone, and he is not going to use it to contribute to a family that refuses to (here it is again) sacrifice for him.
So I validated that. While things are tight, really tight, I have a budget based on that pay rate so I don't need to change it, it would truly only go to credit card payments anyway, getting us out of debt sooner. But whatever, if that makes him feel in control, I'm not going to fight that battle.

Congrats on the raise!  It sounds like you may be saying that gave you a more solid claim to the base paycheck and I'm hoping decreases your financial stress a bit?  But what exactly did you validate?  That the increase is his, or that his family isn't sacrificing for him?  This ain't your first rodeo, so you can probably see what I'm checking for... .

I spend every penny that's in the bank on bills. I never spend any money on myself, and we were even short our daycare payment this week.

What you are doing for your family reminds me of a book I read, "The Prize Winner of Defiance, Ohio: How My Mother Raised 10 Kids on 25 Words or Less."  It's a woman's tribute to her mother, who raised her family with no money, in part by entering writing and advertising contests to earn a few dollars here or there, and by being incredibly frugal.  But it's really about her mother's courage and determination.  You deserve it as a gift, but I bet you could get it on inter-library loan, or fork over $10 for the Kindle edition or $13 for paperback.  I'm having trouble explaining why this would be a good read, but I have a strong intuition that it would be moving and rewarding (I think the word I'm looking for is validating  for you.
https://www.amazon.com/Prize-Winner-Defiance-Ohio-Mother/dp/0743211227/ref=sr_1_71?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1503028424&sr=1-71&keywords=mother++1950%27s