Possible recycle, or genuine?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi all

Firstly, i want to say what a great resource this is. I have been reading and reading in the background for months now. This is my first post. I will try to sum up the main points and apologies for the incoherent long story line. my mind is a mess, as is my heart. Any insight, observations, advice is much appreciated. Thank you.

I am 32 and my ex uBPD gf is 24. We were together for 1.5 years. Right now we are broken up. I am a mess. I eat for short lived satisfaction, I sleep when i can and i don't exercise. I go to work and am not very productive and cant wait till i can go home to sit on the couch. I am consumed by this. I understand the importance of self care but am having trouble implementing it. My ex uBPD gf also has a 5 year old daughter who i love dearly. Currently, i am unsure if she is charming, or genuine. My T thinks she is charming and perhaps in abandonment mode.

Where to begin. This is our 3rd break up, initiated by me. The first 2 by her. I have been seeing a T throughout the relationship to help navigate it and set up a strong foundation. I wanted a life partner and i saw so much potential in her. My T believes she may be BPD, as do I. She once described herself as having a huge hole inside her that she tries to fill with love and attention from anyone she can, but it never suffices, and her low self esteem and unhappiness will last a life time. There have been many moments of insight, sometimes i wonder if they were just to keep me hooked.

The start was amazing. She had come from a string of abusive relationships, never had true love - all the typical stuff. She is gorgeous, and she was as interested in self development as I was and wanted to break this cycle of bad guys with a nice guy. possible mirroring, she appeared vulnerable etc. She was needy, very possessive, jealous, and controlling to an extent. (with my phone - had to see every msg etc). This just added to the fact that i thought i met someone who would never leave me. I have my own abandonment issues and i dont pretend that i did not make any mistakes in this relationship, i made plenty. I was insecure of her kids dad, her exs etc. She kept them around in orbit. Before long the abuse started. Weird things like i would get yelled at for not helping with something i knew nothing about etc. Her life was chaos, and she even warned me of this before we became official. Everything was a mess, she could not handle day to day stuff. Although, she appeared high functioning with a very good job. When i say mess i mean things like, no food in the house, car and house messy, bills, impulsive spending, parking tickets etc.

She had many moments where she would pull away, not know if she loved me, if we could make it, if we had a future etc. Days later would want to marry me again, do life with me. Sometimes she would leave abruptly because she said she felt like she didnt know herself and was 'losing her identity'  . Now i think about it she had moments very early on where she would need to be on her own. She used to say that she was anxious and not feeling well. She would also have moments where she wouldnt want to be intimate in any way and said that its not what she wanted but couldnt help how she felt. mostly she would do a 180 and want to marry me again within days, but for the last 3-4 months that 180 didnt come. sometimes she would tell me she feels stressed and bad because she is bad for me and doesnt make me happy. that she knows she doesnt provide me with security and warmth. That this stressed her further. She said she was like this with all her bfs. That maybe she is scared of commitment (more like intimacy). She had changed her mind about us more then 30 times, wanted a future, then was scared. The last 3-4 she was at her most abusive (devaluation perhaps) with the one underlying issue - that i didnt love her enough. I wasn't allowed to lose faith in the relationship as well, as that meant that someone would end it. She said i had to be sure and knowing of a future for us as it didnt help her. That my doubts made her doubts stronger. Now, for months and months before this when she would be 'unsure' i would try and remain strong and tell her i understand she feels that way and i hope she doesnt soon, but I still want a future with her. I started pulling back in the last few months. I was hurt. I regret it now. My T advised this might be best - to detach somewhat. I was weak and all self care was out the window. I was in survival mode. I asked a number of times if we could work on things, she would say either she doesnt know how, or she doesnt want to. There was no intimacy, she came and went as she liked, abused as she liked, wouldnt say i love you back etc. She would say things like im not scared of being alone anymore, so i dont know if i need you anymore. (she can't be alone at night, always has an emotional attachment she needs to call - more on this later, and in 12 years has been single maybe 10-20 days - apart from her last relationship. when that ended, she kept him as a friend, slept with 2 other guys, 3 months later went back to him, broke up with him a month later then met me 4 days after that. She kept him around (phone calls only that i know) for her nightly panic attack calls until she felt she could transfer that responsibility onto me. Then he was basically phased out.

She was at her most abusive and appeared to hate me. Should would rage if i didnt answer the phone, make me send screenshots that im not talking to girls, there was no imtimacy. She wouldn't say i love you back, didnt want any affection whatsoever. Would talk about breaking up every second day. The first break up came. I asked if she could be a little more conscious with keeping my car tidy (she would leave all sorts of things in there like food, milk, wrappers, anything really). She raged and said i was a  loser and that i was nothing repeatedly and then threatened to break my jaw. I asked her to leave and told her she can't say those things to me, she broke up with me in a rage. Days later she wanted to still call me at night so she could sleep aas well as hang out. I wouldnt pick up. This is the first time she mentioned suicide, so i allowed her to come over. I had an emergency session with my T. He advised, if i wasn't done with this, to write a letter saying how i feel i.e. push/pull dynamics etc and that i can't do friends (i need to heal) and to ask if she was willing to introduce boundaries, respect and talk about these things and to both acknowledge our issues and create a path forward. That if we are doing this we need to commit to communicating and getting on that path of building a healthy relationship. I also stated i am in therapy working on my issues, and that is something I need from her to continue the relationship as well. Demanding i know. I wrote it in a very caring way i can assure you. She agreed by saying 'i agree'. So over the next week i ask to hang out and to talk some more, she is too busy stressed, overwhelmed to do so. We then spend a week together. At the end of that week i see a dating app on her phone. She said she deleted it the day before we spent the week together. I sent the letter about 6 days before that and she agreed to it and to work on us. (she also said after i sent the letter that she broke up to make me 'fight' for her, to see if i cared, that she was hurting and just wanted me to see that). She also said that until we had a proper talk in her head she was single. That she was only using the app to ease loneliness and emptiness. I was shocked. I know this technically isnt cheating but i put my heart into that letter, spoke of both our trauma etc and she agreed to it (which i thought was committing to us) and then in her head was still single as we hadnt talked in person yet. Even though i tried to talk but she was always stressed and 'didnt want to think about the mistakes she made'. She did apologise for hurting me and and for the app and said she only did it cause she was hurting, empty, alone and went on a big spiel about how we have no future again etc and broke up with me again, for the 2nd time (2nd if we never got back together like she thinks). Even during those 5-6 days she thought she was single she asked me many times if i was talking to any girls, i said no, which as the truth. I returned the question, she said no as well. During those 5-6 days sh was talking to 5-10 guys from this dating app, others from instagram and facebook as well. During the first 2-3 months of our relationship, i actually caught her talking to guys on social media, as well as an ex. nothing flirty, but these guys were clearly hitting on her and she was entertaining it. When she mentioned the void inside her once she said that the drama and attention is the only way to make her feel worthy of love.

She then wants to talk the day after this 2nd break up. I have another T session. He says it is clear to him there is no future. He firmly advises to end things. That she is triggered and dysregulated and i am enabling her. That leaving her is the best thing for me, her and her daughter. As sad as it is i can see he is right. I can see that the family i thought i had is not going to function with me around. She comes over to talk and i decide to see what she has to say. Flirts and speaks of sex, even though it hasnt happened for months. I ask her what she thinks needs to happen for us to work. She repeats my letter verbatim. I ask her more about therapy and if she is willing to committ (the last 3-4 months of my T sessions have been about navigating her in her during her abusive/depressive/raging modes as sensitively as possible to try and get her to commit to T - one night she said she would, when i went to book an apt, she backed out). She says she will commit to T, i dig deeper. She then says well it's hard with money, time, and that she doesnt believe in it, but will do it. I offer to pay (like i always have). My heart sunk. I couldn't see a future. I felt like she was just saying these things to keep me around. She wanted to have a semi relationship where we barely see each other but i am on call for her emotional needs (over the past 2 months i at times, for practical reasons like sleep or a shower havent answered her panic attack calls and she abused me for not caring or loving her or being there for her). I felt she was giving me just enough, as she always has, to stay as an emotional care giver (no love or intimacy for months). I end it. I'd put 6 months of researching BPD, trying to learn and use tools etc, as well as my T sessions, i guess i just couldnt see it working at this point, her demands were consuming me. That i couldnt be in a relationship with someone who questions it's future weekly and abuses me in the process.  

Next three weeks lead us up to now. I have been trying to go NC. Her texts have rotated from abusive, loving, to hopeful. So she still wanted me on call for panic attacks, I told her i was going NC and need to heal, needed distance, to take care of myself. she didnt care, she said i as selfish, she was relentless.  It started with her being ok with the break up but angry we couldnt be friends and that i still couldnt be on the phone to her late at night. She called me heartless, a loser, nothing, beneath human, if it is degreading to my character, she said it. That i am as she thought i was and never loved her if i can just go NC and cut her from my life after 1.5 years. That everyone leaves me because i am nothing, She's the best ill get, no one else wants me. she said i was validating what she always thought that i was abandoning her and her daughter in her greatest time of need, she said she couldnt function, was suicidal, couldnt eat and it was all my fault. Id wake up to msgs of screenshots of her talking with other boys saying they care MORE than me, or to a msg where she said she can't see the light anymore. All of this was very confronting and stressful. I spoke with many health professionals, distraught, provided her with numbers and contacts for if she felt like she was in danger, and told her i am only one person, that we need to seek professional help here. That stopped, so i resumed NC. I spent days and hours in tears and grief from the abuse and praying she was ok. She would say i owe her closure, send me vids of me and her daughter, threaten to rock up to my house. Still NC from my end. At this point i am thinking i made the right choice, that this proves the relationship was never going to work, that she cannot respect my needs. she was calling and texting 40-50 times a day and outright saying she doesnt respect my need for space and that i am selfish and a pc of sh@# for requesting it, that she is hurting too, that she needs me, that i need to talk to her, that i cant do this to her, that i am evil, that she deserves a chance to explain herself and win me back. I wanted so many times to reply and hold her but everyone around me and a voice at the back of my head told me it was a mistake. I was vulnerable, and she could be seductive at worst.

Once that type of thing stopped, she became loving, apologised, said that she will leave me alone and give me my space. Sent me an email saying that if i give her another chance she will commit to working on herself and us with T, that i was the perfect partner, that it was all her fault, that she loves me so much, that i treatd her daughter well, that she wishes she had another chance (by now i have blocked her so she is sending this stuff to email - which i forgot to block). That she misses me, that her daughter misses me etc. I ignore as per family, friends and Ts advice. All of this has been really hard. Every text whether abusive or not i wanted to reply, i was trying to stay strong. before she sent the email she actually found me in a park while i was sitting on my own, repeatedly said she was sorry, that she didnt mean to hurt me. I broke down and fell to ground, i was hysterical. My friend asked her to leave. I've considered being her friend so this all stops, but i still love her. it would never work. Part of her lovey texts were that she always just wanted me to fight for her, that she thought no matter how bad it got we would always pull through.

So all of that brings me to today. I am now not sure what to do. The email where she promised to change and seek help if i work on things with her again (btw since saying she will give me space and the email she has still sent me emails and called me from a private number at least 20 times. she emailed me a letter i wrote her when she was down saying i love her and will always support her. she highlighted that part saying i am a f$*%$$ liar) . My T thinks that she is reacting to abandonment. That she is trying whatever tactic she can and then moving to the next when that doesnt work to gain control again. I am not sure if she is genuine or not or if this is just charming and her wanting control. She has certainly always been in control up until i ended things (whether it be sex, affection, the status of us. I spent many weeks just waiting for her to say 'yep, i lve you again lets pait a future again', after she had major doubts). I am scared to not give this one last go, but then again i am scared of what that might bring. When we first broke up, she didnt seem to mind and was just annoyed i wasnt there for her panic attacks anymore - which leads me to think that these latest declarations of love and change are just because i wasn't pandering to her every need anymore. I dont know. I am now confused and in a bad place. i am starting to lose my resolve in my decision, to really miss her, to feel like i made a mistake. My T and friends have advised i stay NC and ride it out. I feel guilty. That im not responding and have blocked some avenues. I guess her calling me heartless and a dog and nothing but a low life for cutting her out of my life will bring that guilt. She is not a bad person, whether BPD or not. She has had many moments of insight and has been concerned for me (at the start) to the best of her ability. I still love her, or maybe i am addicted, i dont know. Trauma bonding perhaps. It feels like love to me. I also love her daughter deary and she has used her numerous times to make me feel bad for leaving. I can't see clear anymore. I am moments away from contacting her.

Any advice, thoughts, opinions, much appreciated

[coffeebell]

Hi all

Firstly, i want to say what a great resource this is. I have been reading and reading in the background for months now. This is my first post. I will try to sum up the main points and apologies for the incoherent long story line. my mind is a mess, as is my heart. Any insight, observations, advice is much appreciated. Thank you.

I am 32 and my ex uBPD gf is 24. We were together for 1.5 years. Right now we are broken up. I am a mess. I eat for short lived satisfaction, I sleep when i can and i don't exercise. I go to work and am not very productive and cant wait till i can go home to sit on the couch. I am consumed by this. I understand the importance of self care but am having trouble implementing it. My ex uBPD gf also has a 5 year old daughter who i love dearly. Currently, i am unsure if she is charming, or genuine. My T thinks she is charming and perhaps in abandonment mode.

Where to begin. This is our 3rd break up, initiated by me. The first 2 by her. I have been seeing a T throughout the relationship to help navigate it and set up a strong foundation. I wanted a life partner and i saw so much potential in her. My T believes she may be BPD, as do I. She once described herself as having a huge hole inside her that she tries to fill with love and attention from anyone she can, but it never suffices, and her low self esteem and unhappiness will last a life time. There have been many moments of insight, sometimes i wonder if they were just to keep me hooked.

The start was amazing. She had come from a string of abusive relationships, never had true love - all the typical stuff. She is gorgeous, and she was as interested in self development as I was and wanted to break this cycle of bad guys with a nice guy. possible mirroring, she appeared vulnerable etc. She was needy, very possessive, jealous, and controlling to an extent. (with my phone - had to see every msg etc). This just added to the fact that i thought i met someone who would never leave me. I have my own abandonment issues and i dont pretend that i did not make any mistakes in this relationship, i made plenty. I was insecure of her kids dad, her exs etc. She kept them around in orbit. Before long the abuse started. Weird things like i would get yelled at for not helping with something i knew nothing about etc. Her life was chaos, and she even warned me of this before we became official. Everything was a mess, she could not handle day to day stuff. Although, she appeared high functioning with a very good job. When i say mess i mean things like, no food in the house, car and house messy, bills, impulsive spending, parking tickets etc.

She had many moments where she would pull away, not know if she loved me, if we could make it, if we had a future etc. Days later would want to marry me again, do life with me. Sometimes she would leave abruptly because she said she felt like she didnt know herself and was 'losing her identity'  . Now i think about it she had moments very early on where she would need to be on her own. She used to say that she was anxious and not feeling well. She would also have moments where she wouldnt want to be intimate in any way and said that its not what she wanted but couldnt help how she felt. mostly she would do a 180 and want to marry me again within days, but for the last 3-4 months that 180 didnt come. sometimes she would tell me she feels stressed and bad because she is bad for me and doesnt make me happy. that she knows she doesnt provide me with security and warmth. That this stressed her further. She said she was like this with all her bfs. That maybe she is scared of commitment (more like intimacy). She had changed her mind about us more then 30 times, wanted a future, then was scared. The last 3-4 she was at her most abusive (devaluation perhaps) with the one underlying issue - that i didnt love her enough. I wasn't allowed to lose faith in the relationship as well, as that meant that someone would end it. She said i had to be sure and knowing of a future for us as it didnt help her. That my doubts made her doubts stronger. Now, for months and months before this when she would be 'unsure' i would try and remain strong and tell her i understand she feels that way and i hope she doesnt soon, but I still want a future with her. I started pulling back in the last few months. I was hurt. I regret it now. My T advised this might be best - to detach somewhat. I was weak and all self care was out the window. I was in survival mode. I asked a number of times if we could work on things, she would say either she doesnt know how, or she doesnt want to. There was no intimacy, she came and went as she liked, abused as she liked, wouldnt say i love you back etc. She would say things like im not scared of being alone anymore, so i dont know if i need you anymore. (she can't be alone at night, always has an emotional attachment she needs to call - more on this later, and in 12 years has been single maybe 10-20 days - apart from her last relationship. when that ended, she kept him as a friend, slept with 2 other guys, 3 months later went back to him, broke up with him a month later then met me 4 days after that. She kept him around (phone calls only that i know) for her nightly panic attack calls until she felt she could transfer that responsibility onto me. Then he was basically phased out.

She was at her most abusive and appeared to hate me. Should would rage if i didnt answer the phone, make me send screenshots that im not talking to girls, there was no imtimacy. She wouldn't say i love you back, didnt want any affection whatsoever. Would talk about breaking up every second day. The first break up came. I asked if she could be a little more conscious with keeping my car tidy (she would leave all sorts of things in there like food, milk, wrappers, anything really). She raged and said i was a  loser and that i was nothing repeatedly and then threatened to break my jaw. I asked her to leave and told her she can't say those things to me, she broke up with me in a rage. Days later she wanted to still call me at night so she could sleep aas well as hang out. I wouldnt pick up. This is the first time she mentioned suicide, so i allowed her to come over. I had an emergency session with my T. He advised, if i wasn't done with this, to write a letter saying how i feel i.e. push/pull dynamics etc and that i can't do friends (i need to heal) and to ask if she was willing to introduce boundaries, respect and talk about these things and to both acknowledge our issues and create a path forward. That if we are doing this we need to commit to communicating and getting on that path of building a healthy relationship. I also stated i am in therapy working on my issues, and that is something I need from her to continue the relationship as well. Demanding i know. I wrote it in a very caring way i can assure you. She agreed by saying 'i agree'. So over the next week i ask to hang out and to talk some more, she is too busy stressed, overwhelmed to do so. We then spend a week together. At the end of that week i see a dating app on her phone. She said she deleted it the day before we spent the week together. I sent the letter about 6 days before that and she agreed to it and to work on us. (she also said after i sent the letter that she broke up to make me 'fight' for her, to see if i cared, that she was hurting and just wanted me to see that). She also said that until we had a proper talk in her head she was single. That she was only using the app to ease loneliness and emptiness. I was shocked. I know this technically isnt cheating but i put my heart into that letter, spoke of both our trauma etc and she agreed to it (which i thought was committing to us) and then in her head was still single as we hadnt talked in person yet. Even though i tried to talk but she was always stressed and 'didnt want to think about the mistakes she made'. She did apologise for hurting me and and for the app and said she only did it cause she was hurting, empty, alone and went on a big spiel about how we have no future again etc and broke up with me again, for the 2nd time (2nd if we never got back together like she thinks). Even during those 5-6 days she thought she was single she asked me many times if i was talking to any girls, i said no, which as the truth. I returned the question, she said no as well. During those 5-6 days sh was talking to 5-10 guys from this dating app, others from instagram and facebook as well. During the first 2-3 months of our relationship, i actually caught her talking to guys on social media, as well as an ex. nothing flirty, but these guys were clearly hitting on her and she was entertaining it. When she mentioned the void inside her once she said that the drama and attention is the only way to make her feel worthy of love.

She then wants to talk the day after this 2nd break up. I have another T session. He says it is clear to him there is no future. He firmly advises to end things. That she is triggered and dysregulated and i am enabling her. That leaving her is the best thing for me, her and her daughter. As sad as it is i can see he is right. I can see that the family i thought i had is not going to function with me around. She comes over to talk and i decide to see what she has to say. Flirts and speaks of sex, even though it hasnt happened for months. I ask her what she thinks needs to happen for us to work. She repeats my letter verbatim. I ask her more about therapy and if she is willing to committ (the last 3-4 months of my T sessions have been about navigating her in her during her abusive/depressive/raging modes as sensitively as possible to try and get her to commit to T - one night she said she would, when i went to book an apt, she backed out). She says she will commit to T, i dig deeper. She then says well it's hard with money, time, and that she doesnt believe in it, but will do it. I offer to pay (like i always have). My heart sunk. I couldn't see a future. I felt like she was just saying these things to keep me around. She wanted to have a semi relationship where we barely see each other but i am on call for her emotional needs (over the past 2 months i at times, for practical reasons like sleep or a shower havent answered her panic attack calls and she abused me for not caring or loving her or being there for her). I felt she was giving me just enough, as she always has, to stay as an emotional care giver (no love or intimacy for months). I end it. I'd put 6 months of researching BPD, trying to learn and use tools etc, as well as my T sessions, i guess i just couldnt see it working at this point, her demands were consuming me. That i couldnt be in a relationship with someone who questions it's future weekly and abuses me in the process.  

Next three weeks lead us up to now. I have been trying to go NC. Her texts have rotated from abusive, loving, to hopeful. So she still wanted me on call for panic attacks, I told her i was going NC and need to heal, needed distance, to take care of myself. she didnt care, she said i as selfish, she was relentless.  It started with her being ok with the break up but angry we couldnt be friends and that i still couldnt be on the phone to her late at night. She called me heartless, a loser, nothing, beneath human, if it is degreading to my character, she said it. That i am as she thought i was and never loved her if i can just go NC and cut her from my life after 1.5 years. That everyone leaves me because i am nothing, She's the best ill get, no one else wants me. she said i was validating what she always thought that i was abandoning her and her daughter in her greatest time of need, she said she couldnt function, was suicidal, couldnt eat and it was all my fault. Id wake up to msgs of screenshots of her talking with other boys saying they care MORE than me, or to a msg where she said she can't see the light anymore. All of this was very confronting and stressful. I spoke with many health professionals, distraught, provided her with numbers and contacts for if she felt like she was in danger, and told her i am only one person, that we need to seek professional help here. That stopped, so i resumed NC. I spent days and hours in tears and grief from the abuse and praying she was ok. She would say i owe her closure, send me vids of me and her daughter, threaten to rock up to my house. Still NC from my end. At this point i am thinking i made the right choice, that this proves the relationship was never going to work, that she cannot respect my needs. she was calling and texting 40-50 times a day and outright saying she doesnt respect my need for space and that i am selfish and a pc of sh@# for requesting it, that she is hurting too, that she needs me, that i need to talk to her, that i cant do this to her, that i am evil, that she deserves a chance to explain herself and win me back. I wanted so many times to reply and hold her but everyone around me and a voice at the back of my head told me it was a mistake. I was vulnerable, and she could be seductive at worst.

Once that type of thing stopped, she became loving, apologised, said that she will leave me alone and give me my space. Sent me an email saying that if i give her another chance she will commit to working on herself and us with T, that i was the perfect partner, that it was all her fault, that she loves me so much, that i treatd her daughter well, that she wishes she had another chance (by now i have blocked her so she is sending this stuff to email - which i forgot to block). That she misses me, that her daughter misses me etc. I ignore as per family, friends and Ts advice. All of this has been really hard. Every text whether abusive or not i wanted to reply, i was trying to stay strong. before she sent the email she actually found me in a park while i was sitting on my own, repeatedly said she was sorry, that she didnt mean to hurt me. I broke down and fell to ground, i was hysterical. My friend asked her to leave. I've considered being her friend so this all stops, but i still love her. it would never work. Part of her lovey texts were that she always just wanted me to fight for her, that she thought no matter how bad it got we would always pull through.

So all of that brings me to today. I am now not sure what to do. The email where she promised to change and seek help if i work on things with her again (btw since saying she will give me space and the email she has still sent me emails and called me from a private number at least 20 times. she emailed me a letter i wrote her when she was down saying i love her and will always support her. she highlighted that part saying i am a f$*%$$ liar) . My T thinks that she is reacting to abandonment. That she is trying whatever tactic she can and then moving to the next when that doesnt work to gain control again. I am not sure if she is genuine or not or if this is just charming and her wanting control. She has certainly always been in control up until i ended things (whether it be sex, affection, the status of us. I spent many weeks just waiting for her to say 'yep, i lve you again lets pait a future again', after she had major doubts). I am scared to not give this one last go, but then again i am scared of what that might bring. When we first broke up, she didnt seem to mind and was just annoyed i wasnt there for her panic attacks anymore - which leads me to think that these latest declarations of love and change are just because i wasn't pandering to her every need anymore. I dont know. I am now confused and in a bad place. i am starting to lose my resolve in my decision, to really miss her, to feel like i made a mistake. My T and friends have advised i stay NC and ride it out. I feel guilty. That im not responding and have blocked some avenues. I guess her calling me heartless and a dog and nothing but a low life for cutting her out of my life will bring that guilt. She is not a bad person, whether BPD or not. She has had many moments of insight and has been concerned for me (at the start) to the best of her ability. I still love her, or maybe i am addicted, i dont know. Trauma bonding perhaps. It feels like love to me. I also love her daughter deary and she has used her numerous times to make me feel bad for leaving. I can't see clear anymore. I am moments away from contacting her.

Any advice, thoughts, opinions, much appreciated

[coffeebell]

I just saw how long this is once posted! Sorry guys!

[Skip]

i am starting to lose my resolve in my decision, to really miss her, to feel like i made a mistake.

My T and friends have advised i stay NC and ride it out. I feel guilty. That im not responding and have blocked some avenues.

I guess her calling me heartless and a dog and nothing but a low life for cutting her out of my life will bring that guilt. She is not a bad person, whether BPD or not. She has had many moments of insight and has been concerned for me (at the start) to the best of her ability.

I still love her, or maybe i am addicted, i dont know. Trauma bonding perhaps. It feels like love to me. I also love her daughter deary and she has used her numerous times to make me feel bad for leaving. I can't see clear anymore. I am moment

It really sounds like you love her... .and her daughter. That is a really good thing to care tha much for someone.

In reading your post (it is long!), two things stand out.

You sound like you are in a funk - a depressions. " I eat for short lived satisfaction, I sleep when i can and i don't exercise. I go to work and am not very productive and cant wait till i can go home to sit on the couch. I am consumed by this. " Your partner is battling severe mental illness - she is bouncing from one emotion to another and going through bouts of engulfment followed by fear of rejection. "in 12 years has been single maybe 10-20 days"

So, to your question, is she genuine about wanting to get together and make a life with you or is it a ploy? I would suspect that it is genuine. She is probably a very genuine person. Maybe the question shouldn't be about her authenticity. Maybe it's more about her ability.

If she was committed today to doing everything necessary to build a life with you, do you think she has the mental skills to maintain that commitment for a year, two years, etc. without regularly changing her mind?  If she stays in a committed mood, do you think she has the ability to operate as a loving partner with significantly reduced periods of difficult behavior?  Do you think you can life from your funk while dating her?

[Xeonrebel]

I dont want to sound harsh, but i would be skeptic about her being with abusive bf. Theres always 2 sides in a story, and you are only hearing one SIDE. It's being said that they Will try to get simpathy by making you the hero and they exes the bad persons. I can tell you, while i did some stupid things like cheating on her, i always try to give her everything she wanted and more. Now im dumped and left for dead. And she did awful things too, like trying to commit suicide ir cutting herself right in front of me. Of course she is not going to tell that story to her next dude.

[coffeebell]

It really sounds like you love her... .and her daughter. That is a really good thing to care tha much for someone.

In reading your post (it is long!), two things stand out.

You sound like you are in a funk - a depressions. " I eat for short lived satisfaction, I sleep when i can and i don't exercise. I go to work and am not very productive and cant wait till i can go home to sit on the couch. I am consumed by this. " Your partner is battling severe mental illness - she is bouncing from one emotion to another and going through bouts of engulfment followed by fear of rejection. "in 12 years has been single maybe 10-20 days"

So, to your question, is she genuine about wanting to get together and make a life with you or is it a ploy? I would suspect that it is genuine. She is probably a very genuine person. Maybe the question shouldn't be about her authenticity. Maybe it's more about her ability.

If she was committed today to doing everything necessary to build a life with you, do you think she has the mental skills to maintain that commitment for a year, two years, etc. without regularly changing her mind?  If she stays in a committed mood, do you think she has the ability to operate as a loving partner with significantly reduced periods of difficult behavior?  :)o you think you can life from your funk while dating her?

Hi Skip

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my long and confusing post. I truly appreciate it.

I do truly care for her and her daughter. When she accused me of not caring when I left it hurt a great deal. The last few months of our relationship was full of these accusations.

Those are the very important questions I've been asking myself these last few days. As you mention, I am severely depressed and can't see a clear way through any of this.

She is currently seeing a T, but doesn't talk about anything other then surface stuff. The other stuff is 'too hard'. She did for a few sessions with a different T, but then for some reason changed Ts.

I honestly don't know the answers to your questions. I guess it kind of comes down to a risk analysis of sorts. If she committed today, I would be tempted to jump back in. I guess her following through on that commitment is the hardest part to predict, as well as me being able to pull myself together and be the stronger one. She has in her head 'thought us as over' 15-20 times during our time together. The first thing she will do is reach out to other guys to ease her loneliness. Whether or not I can risk that and the hurt that may bring is a good question. Part of me may always regret not giving her that chance. Many have said I have given her that chance already multiple times. Over the course of our 1-5 years, she was more 'unsure' than sure about our future.

Part of me still questions her genuineness to an extent. I believe she meant that she wants a life with me and to treat her trauma in that moment, what she felt the next day or day after that is another question. Part of me just sees a road of hurt and chaos if I were to try again. I fear that once I show interest again, that will ease her loneliness, allow her the throw another attachment in the boot, then run. As mentioned, initially she was happy with the break up, but when I refused to be friends and provide emotional support, she then started to want to be with me again in a romantic way. Like you said, I think she is confused on an almost daily basis perhaps. She did seem to go from tactic to tactic to try get me to respond when I went NC.

I ask myself if this depression is worse than the depression of being with her and if it is worth another shot. I know that that isn't healthy, and would be me just trying to ease this pain. I again had 6 missed calls from her from early hours of the morning last night. I have no doubt she is on dating sites seeking male attention at this moment. She has had many moments of insight that she can't provide me with what I need - I.e intimacy, security etc.

My T thinks this is done for now, that hope is over for the moment. That I am enabling and triggering her and that by leaving her, I might just get her on the path of seeking help. He suggested I reach out in 3-6 months and establish a friendship and test the waters to see if she has commenced work on herself. I hate that I have given up on her. My T thinks she hasn't the resources at this point to properly commit and it's also the whole you can lead a horse to water type thing. That there has been no evidence as of yet that she would follow through. My worry is that her abandonment is in full swing and rather then reach for professional help, she will attempt to fill the void with make attention. Maybe if I am with her She has a better chance? Again, perhaps that is her doing the work for me and not for her.

3 days after I ended things, I told her that if she was committed to us, to book a couples counseling session and to not contact me until she has, and I'll pay. Endless texts of abuse followed that msg from her end.

The no contact is killing me. Many people tell me this is what is best for her, her daughter and me.  TBH, I fear the day her missed calls stop showing up on my phone and it is so so tough to know she is lonely and empty and I am ignoring her.

Thank you so much for your reply, I truly appreciate it.

[coffeebell]

I dont want to sound harsh, but i would be skeptic about her being with abusive bf. Theres always 2 sides in a story, and you are only hearing one SIDE. It's being said that they Will try to get simpathy by making you the hero and they exes the bad persons. I can tell you, while i did some stupid things like cheating on her, i always try to give her everything she wanted and more. Now im dumped and left for dead. And she did awful things too, like trying to commit suicide ir cutting herself right in front of me. Of course she is not going to tell that story to her next dude.

Hi Xeonrebel, thanks for replying.

I know what you mean in needing to be skeptical. Some thins she has mentioned about exs don't add up, so I guess I at this point will reserve judgement. I can say though that she has gone from admitting the fault as being hers for the ending of relationships to having a broad issue like communication, to blaming him. These 3 positions rotate. Part of me thinks on one level she takes responsibility, but then does nothing with that to work on her issues (real accountability) and quickly goes back to a different reason. I guess we all do that to a certain extent when a relationship fails. I do know that when I first met her, she was vulnerable and a damsel in distress. She said her ex made her depressed and miserable but has also said once to me 'you are becoming like my ex, depressed to he point I can't lean on you'.

Sounds like you had a rough time with her cutting and talks of suicide! Sorry to hear mate. My ex said that her ex talked of suicide, but when I ended it she spoke of suicide. So hard to know what really happened in exs past relationships!