Need help with contering Projecting

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

My BPW wife often when talking about her therapy, medications and treatments becomes resentful towards me because I am not in individual therapy for issues that I feel are projected onto me by her. I am at a loss on how to counter this as at times it has been a strong part of her avoiding or justifying non-compliance with therapy or medication.

For example:

I generally get up before her, even on weekends. I will get up, make a coffee, putter around the house doing chores or doing nothing and not think much of it. If she wakes up angry, or becomes angry somehow through contact with her phone or other stimulus that I am not involved in and starts off the day angry and bring it downstairs to me and we get into an argument she will often say that I have anger management issues over it and that I need to get therapy for it.

Or, I walk in the door after work and it's an instant verbal flood of complaints about anything from the laundry to the cats to the house isn't clean that she goes on about. Usually stating that "She can't live this way." to which I often reply by asking her what actions is she taking to make the situation better, and what does she need from me to help? Sometimes I am gentle with this, sometimes I am not... .often I start gentle but as the conversation keeps circling back to the same resolved point I become frustrated and break off the conversation as it is non-productive to which she will often give me a F*ck you! or other warm words and then say I need to get myself into therapy as "other people" want to hear her stories or don't get angry with her. (She doesn't realize that she keeps her mask on for these other people, and when it slips off and they call her out the other people disappear from her life)

I am at a loss to understand this. Yes I see the benefits of speaking to a therapist, and I have consulted with them in the past and will often have individual sessions with our marriage counselor and those are very useful. However, I don't see an large benefit of me going to a therapist as I have a strong family and friend network that support me and let me vent as needed. To be blunt about it my practical mind can't see an advantage to going to a therapist alone when what frustrates me is that her and I need to resolve things. I have a life filled with stable long term relationships and my only "spike" in drama comes from my marriage. My self confidence is high and my self image is realistic, but I am content with who I in life outside of the marriage if there are those that bother me I do not waste any energy or effort on them and never did. This to me is why when she got through it has put me against the ropes as if we were not married with a child I would have let her drift away from my life to focus on those that can be healthy for me and for themselves.

[Tired_Dad]

My BPW wife often when talking about her therapy, medications and treatments becomes resentful towards me because I am not in individual therapy for issues that I feel are projected onto me by her. I am at a loss on how to counter this as at times it has been a strong part of her avoiding or justifying non-compliance with therapy or medication.

For example:

I generally get up before her, even on weekends. I will get up, make a coffee, putter around the house doing chores or doing nothing and not think much of it. If she wakes up angry, or becomes angry somehow through contact with her phone or other stimulus that I am not involved in and starts off the day angry and bring it downstairs to me and we get into an argument she will often say that I have anger management issues over it and that I need to get therapy for it.

Or, I walk in the door after work and it's an instant verbal flood of complaints about anything from the laundry to the cats to the house isn't clean that she goes on about. Usually stating that "She can't live this way." to which I often reply by asking her what actions is she taking to make the situation better, and what does she need from me to help? Sometimes I am gentle with this, sometimes I am not... .often I start gentle but as the conversation keeps circling back to the same resolved point I become frustrated and break off the conversation as it is non-productive to which she will often give me a F*ck you! or other warm words and then say I need to get myself into therapy as "other people" want to hear her stories or don't get angry with her. (She doesn't realize that she keeps her mask on for these other people, and when it slips off and they call her out the other people disappear from her life)

I am at a loss to understand this. Yes I see the benefits of speaking to a therapist, and I have consulted with them in the past and will often have individual sessions with our marriage counselor and those are very useful. However, I don't see an large benefit of me going to a therapist as I have a strong family and friend network that support me and let me vent as needed. To be blunt about it my practical mind can't see an advantage to going to a therapist alone when what frustrates me is that her and I need to resolve things. I have a life filled with stable long term relationships and my only "spike" in drama comes from my marriage. My self confidence is high and my self image is realistic, but I am content with who I in life outside of the marriage if there are those that bother me I do not waste any energy or effort on them and never did. This to me is why when she got through it has put me against the ropes as if we were not married with a child I would have let her drift away from my life to focus on those that can be healthy for me and for themselves.

[formflier]

Is there a downside to you going to a therapist?  Sort of flipping the question from you "see no benefit".

I'll say there is one obvious benefit.  It takes the wind out of the "you are not going to therapy" arguments being used against you.

And... perhaps that could be the first "issue" that you discuss in therapy.  How best to "counter" or "respond to" this type of thing.

I bring this up as a person that has had similar thoughts in the past.  I'm not BPD... so why should I go to therapy when she is the obvious problem.

My thinking morphed over the years until I found a therapist I really liked.  I also took notice that my wife "hated her" and said "she was going to ruin us", when it became obvious that she was gently but effectively leaving responsibility where it should be left. 

So, I have weekly appointments (in person or by phone) with a PhD level psychologist.  She has my wife figured out (luckily my wife saw her for a while before my wife declared her to be a non-christian and a threat)... .and is able to provide me with invaluable information to help calm my home and protect my sanity.

I am a much more empathetic person as a result of my Ps guidance.  I'm a much better Dad. 

I don't approach T as fixing anything about me.  I approach it as I want to have the best relationship skills I can have.   So, I continue to work on them. 


FF

[formflier]

As to countering projection. 

Let most of it "land on the floor".  Imagine she is tossing something at you that you don't want to catch.

Ask direct and succinct questions.  "Are you asking me about my feelings or telling me yours?"

Let her know you are available to listen when "accusations are not between us".   Avoid saying that " you are accusing me"... .state the issue... .enforce your boundary... .let it be obvious how she can have a conversation with you.

The rest is up to her... .she may very well choose to be mad about the sound from her phone... the way you breathe... .or the color of the couch... .  That's her choice... .respect her choice and take care of yourself.

FF

[Tired_Dad]

Both good answers.

As for the main reason I don't go to therapy... .I just straight up don't want to invest the time into a failing relationship and take away from time with my son, time working on my house or just time decompressing with a hobby. I really don't want to put the dollars or time into this when I am not seeing much of a future with her anyway.

The only benefit that I could see would be to be assessed and to have that assessment be in my favor when it comes time to going to court for custody.

[formflier]

I would suggest that the "attitude" or "worldview" that you appear to have in this last post is exactly the reason to go to T. 

I'm not saying it is "wrong"... "bad"... .or any of that.

I am saying there is a better way for you.  That applies if your r/s fails... .and it applies if it succeeds and it applies if the r/s just kinda muddles along.

And... .in all seriousness... .if you do believe that you will divorce and have a custody issue, it would be wise to be able to show a long term pattern of investing in yourself to make yourself the best Dad you can be... .for the benefit of your son.

Have you had a bad experience in therapy before? 

This is not about "her"... .it's about "you" and how you approach all relationships.

FF

[Tired_Dad]

My experiences with therapy are generally neutral. I see the benefit, however I prefer to have the sessions be working on helping us resolve the issues between us. Basically for me individual therapy does not result in action, at least couples therapy lets us negotiate out agreements and move towards a resolution. I have not had an individual session yet where I came out of it feeling accomplished, mostly I feel like I vented what I needed to... .but at the end of the day I am still faced with the same challenges that I was when I walked in there and really all I did was complain and not do anything about it thoug it did help set up for our next couples session.

[formflier]

Hmm... .I get the sense that we are "posting past each other". 

I do understand that you would like to have couples and individual sessions focused on solving the relationship problems together.  I would love that to.

It would appear that is NOT on the table right now in your relationship, because you only control your "vote". 

Working on you and your part of the relationship IS on the table right now, because you control 100% of the vote.

The individual therapy  will likely focus on "your part" in the r/s and a lot about how you approach relationships in general.  Sure... .you may have many sessions of venting, that is  part of it.  There will likely be other sessions focused on you... .and you pwBPD never gets talked about. 

Help me understand the reluctance to embark on a journey to improve your part in your relationships. 

FF

[Tired_Dad]

I wouldn't say that I have reluctance to therapy more that I strive to live a reflective and examined life everyday and to me the sessions have usually been confirmation sessions as opposed to any form of discovery.

We attend couples therapy regularly and it is usually very productive.

The largest reason I would say that I don't go while I am allowing myself to dwell on this is that I don't believe that she is worth the investment of my time individually to "fix" myself. I am a very resilient and content person (which is probably why I have survived this relationship for so long), I do not derive my sense of self or my self value from this relationship and I have a rewarding job and positive relationships with my friends and family. Do I have flaws... .absolutely. Do they hold me back in life? To that I say no.

I wake up in the morning set on taking care of my family, work my job well, take care of my son when I get home and work in friends as time allows. The only thing that any of the therapists I have spoken to have asked me is why I am still with her and what I can do to make me happy. Unfortunately my sense of commitment and honoring the "in sickness and in health" part is keeping me stuck for now.

I see a change coming, either a divorce or a stability between us but I am parallel planning and ready to handle both.

[formflier]

 
How many individual sessions have you attended?  How long a period of time did this span?

As in, "I attended 6 individual sessions over the period of 6 weeks",


Also... .please confirm or correct my understanding that you stopped individual therapy because you believed it confirming your own understanding of things, instead of "opening up new insights".  Do I have that right?

It comes through "loud and clear",  both directly and indirectly, that you don't believe your partner is worth the investment of your time an energy in individual therapy.

The largest reason I would say that I don't go while I am allowing myself to dwell on this is that I don't believe that she is worth the investment of my time individually to "fix" myself. 

Do you think she picks up on your attitude? 

Last question... .for now.  Are YOU worth the investment?  Are your other relationships?

FF

[Tired_Dad]

FF,

I do appreciate this dialogue and we have to recognize that not everyone needs therapy. I find that I honor my "am I worth it" aspect in spending time doing things that promote my enjoyment of life. Therapy is a wonderful tool, but like any tool it is only effective when it is needed and for the amount that is needed.

Her primary debate began when she decided that I have PTSD (I don't, confirmed by therapist Civ and Mil that I don't) and that I must have PTSD because I was deployed. I refuse to engage in that with her or to give in to her on the grounds that she believes that I have an anger issue because I respond to her anger.

In all reality I am not going to gauge my sense of self or my need for mental health treatment based on the ranting of a BPD. My interactions with others outside of her are generally collaborative and positive and do not indicate a need for treatment. I have long term stable relationships, and a positive outlook on myself and on life in general. I have only one challenge that is festering at this time and it is the toxic effects of a BPD spouse on life and the steps that you are forced to take to keep peace.

Divorce, is of course on the table and I am currently building up cash reserves to fund one but pulling the trigger will be difficult as unfortunately family law in Massachusetts does not favor equal treatment of fathers and ironically since she isn't working is the one most likely to get physical custody.

I know that she senses my lack of investment in her as I now refuse to argue or debate with her. I feel that is something that can only be done with someone that respects you and as such is no longer worth the effort. I maintain my boundaries, limit contact and interactions, and ensure that I am cordial and polite when dealing with her to avoid having to engage in prolonged negative interactions that my son does not need to witness.

As for am I worth it... .yes, I am worth the investment of therapy. But more from how I find my therapeutic outlets and not so much with a direct therapist.

[formflier]

 
I too enjoy the dialogue.

To be clear... .my answer to the question posted in your title "need help with countering projection" is to find a therapist that you trust (it may take a couple therapists to find one) and spend a while gaining insight into who you are, what your relationship is and who your relationship partner is. 

This is a journey made much more complex due to OUR (read your and yes I make the choice to remain as well) choice to involve yourself and to remain involved with a pwBPD. 

Things that you may dismiss as nonessential a trained therapist may identify as a "core issue".  No way to tell without taking the journey and seeing where it will lead.  Understanding some of the journey will be "happy" and some will involve facing things you would rather not face.

A large part of the journey would involve your outlook on life... .the words you use and what that "says" about who you are... what you value.

For instance... .I find it striking that there is a consistent theme coming from you that you don't "need" therapy.  I've tried to shift the words to "improve"... ."be the best"... ."benefit from"... etc etc and it doesn't appear you are open to any of that kind of thinking. 

It's not about the label or the "need"... .again I would challenge you to answer the question of "are you worth the investment in therapy"... .and answer it without using "but"

I'm glad a therapist (civ and mil) have confirmed you don't have PTSD... .that's a good data point to have.

Did you ask the question of the therapist  "Given what's going on in my life, do you believe I could benefit from individual therapy?" 

If you asked a therapist that question... .and got the answer of yes... .what would you do with that information? 

Let me end by circling around to the question in your post.  Projection and the type of projecting done by pwBPD is usually a nuanced and complex thing.  Something an "average" therapist might even have a problem figuring out, let alone an "average joe" like you and me.  That's where a T that has experience with pwBPD woud be very valuable to you, even though you don't "need" it.

Something to reflect on... .without "buts"... .

Ok... so... one more thing.  I'm retired military.  Combat vet... multiple tours.  Been involved in lots of stuff.   It's part of who I am.   Doesn't need to be "fixed"... .but it does need to be understood, most of all by me.  I used to care about labels.  Moved past that a few years ago.  I do have a worldview that most people don't have.  That leads me to relate to people in ways that can be confusing to them.  I've learned some skills to help bridge the gap and lessen confusion.  I'm much more comfortable with who I am... .and who I'm not. 

Again... all stuff to reflect on... .

FF