Co-dependency and the road to health

[RolandOfEld]

Hello all, since my wife said she suspected she might be borderline a few months ago my whole world has been thrown upside down. Beyond the fact that I realized I am living with someone with a mental illness, one that suddenly comes out and often terrifies me and the children, it has been even scarier to face the fact of my own lack of mental health that has made living with my uBPDw possible for almost ten years. She is a beautiful, amazing person and mother when not dysregulating, and I love her very much and appreciate her struggles after a live filled with trauma. I cannot change her or force her into treatment, so right now I am working on my own co-dependency issues through private therapy, self education, and of course this forum. My hope is that as I get healthier and remove myself from bad habits, she will feel more pushed to seek help for herself. I do not have plans to abandon this marriage any time soon, and not just because of S4 and D2.  

So I wanted to ask those of you who have identified your own co-dependent tendencies via a BPD partner how you have managed/are managing the situation and finding your own route to health to share your experiences. For me, the first step has been admitting how deeply tied my feelings of self worth are to her approval and how easy it is for her to crush those feelings with one outburst. I have spent our whole relationship trying to be "the good husband" and the "the good father" instead of the unique husband and father I am, and it has led to an utter lack of proper boundaries and a lot of suppressed rage and depression on my part.  

I think I'm making progress, but it is very hard. For an example, I've been struggling very much with managing my two young children and I realized this weekend how much this came from my horror of her seeing me as an incapable parent. So I would always try to follow her way of doing things or take the kids out of the house in any weather to give her alone time (she's a full time stay at home mom for the moment). But I was just trying to please her and the kids could sense something was wrong with Dad and go completely crazy when around me. But yesterday, while she was in a typical state of dysregulation following an episode the night before, I just pushed past my fear and did things my way, and the results were extraordinary. My children had never been so behaved with me before. If I can apply this thinking to other aspects of my life, I'm sure I will continue to improve. But it may very well come with an extinction burst on her part as "the good husband" who would respond to every command is replaced by "the real husband".  

So there is hope, but I still feel very deeply ensconced in struggle. It would be great to hear everyone's stories, success or in progress or otherwise. I also know there is a lot of co-dependency literature out there so if any has any suggestions I would be very grateful. Thank you.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Enabler]

Hello RolandOfEld,

Seems you've had yourself an interesting few months. It's great your wife has accepted she has a problem and has some level of awareness of her behaviour. That's a start at least. I am sure you're aware of the tools and I'm sure you are doing everything you can to help yourself and help your wife and kids cope with the disorder.

Regarding your children, let me share with you my personal experience and how I have looked at the relationship with my own kids over the last 18m and greatly improved the situation:

- Separated my emotional reaction to my wife with my emotional interaction with the kids... .basically ensure that the burden of emotional hurt caused by your wife's behaviour stays directed at your wife. It is not your kids fault. I found that when my wife was dysregulating with me I would be extra tense with the kids, I would blow up at them regarding them tidying their rooms etc etc. Self reflect on your behaviour and stop yourself when you feel like you're projecting your frustrations on the kids.
- The tools, especially validation work well on children especially when they're throwing a wobbly. Children massively appreciate you listening and empathising with them.
- Get down to the childrens level, sit on the floor with them ESPECIALLY when you're telling them off
- Children appreciate consistency and this is likely something that they do not get from their mother. Have consistent age appropriate boundaries and allow them freedom between those boundaries such that you avoid conflict, they have room to grow BUT they understand where your boundaries are. These boundaries do not have to be the same as your wife's (in an ideal world they would be) but they have to be rock solid. Children feel secure knowing where they stand and knowing what the consequences are for stepping over the line. your BPDw will likely have flaky boundaries which confuse the children as one day they are allowed x and the next day they aren't. It creates chaos to the point where no boundaries are respected.
- Do not try to protect your wife from the children. I constantly tried to stop the children being a source of stress for my wife by telling them to be quiet, not create mess etc etc. remember it is not their fault and they are just being kids. You run the risk of trying to be a rescuer to your wife's emotions but she will likely shift you over to perpetrator (Karpman Triangle) when you try to passivize the kids. She might likely turn you into the big bad daddy when in reality you were just trying to protect her (and yourself and the kids) from her mood changes.
- I don't know you but my guess is that you are not an incompetent father, in fact you're likely a very good father, I know that I am. Have confidence in yourself and your ability. You are the one who is holding your family together... .remember that.
- Your wife is trying to put you down to make herself feel better about her own personal failings and personal hatred. Take what she says, digest it for anything beneficial... .discard the rest as her own projections.

Well done for seeking help, there's plenty of experience on the board and plenty of advice to be had.

I have taken a relationship with my kids which was founded on being controlling (I'm an emotional caretaker to my wife), where Daddy was strict and angry, to one where I have an awesome relationship with the kids, I do not get involved in my wife's chaos and my children respect what I say and feel safe and secure knowing where the boundaries are.

All the best

[Notwendy]

I can relate to these posts from the perspective of co-dependency as well as being the child of a BPD mother and enabling father.

Thank you enabler for your suggestions with the children. In my parents' era- there was no information about BPD or co-dependency available and my father did what he thought was best which was to enlist us in the efforts to not upset our mother. By adolescence, I was an additional emotional caretaker for her. It isn't a surprise that being co-dependent was what I thought was normal.

Thank you for your insight to the Karpman triangle and not enlisting the kids to WOE or be irritated at them when irritated at your wife. This is especially important as the kids get older. Teens can test the boundaries. I was ( rightfully) disciplined for behaviors my mother had no boundaries with. She could act out and rage in the home, and somehow that was OK while we kids had better not say a word about it or speak up ourselves.

It was a huge incentive for me to not model these behaviors for my children. I don't blame my father- I think he was a great dad and he did all he knew to do at the time, but we have more information now.

I saw where my own behaviors- appeasement, people pleasing, enabling were making the issues in my own marriage worse. I was also role modeling these behaviors for my children and setting the stage for the relationships they would have in the future.

It is interesting that I saw several counselors over the years for my FOO issues and concerns about my marriage, but only one of them- the last one- mentioned 12 step groups. It had not occurred to me as substance abuse is not an issue with me or my marriage and that is what I thought they were about, but learned they were much more. They deal with dysfunction and enabling. By this time, I wanted change, so even if the idea didn't make sense to me, I went, and did the whole program- meetings, and a sponsor.

For me, it was working with the sponsor that made a huge difference for me. She called me out on all my behaviors- in a kind way but not an enabling way. It wasn't always comfortable, and sometimes upsetting -but I remain grateful to her for this. I also think it helps to keep in mind that changes can take time. But once I began to see progress, it was encouraging.

I like how you did things your way with the kids. Kids can and do sense a difference. Will your recovery lead your wife to get help? Nobody knows the future. However, I do know that enabling unwanted behavior reinforces it, and not reinforcing behavior can diminish it. Once you are not enabling, there can be the possibility of change.

[Tattered Heart]

Congratulations on fighting through your fear! I always say it just takes one step and then the next and the next. Overtime, these steps become easier and easier take.

Do you think next time a similar situation arises you can continue to keep doing whatever you are doing by not letting her response change the course? If not, what can you do to begin planning for that scenario? I always like to have situations set up in my head with a planned course of action. It gives me a little courage and breathing room so I don't have to think too quickly in an intense moment.

[RolandOfEld]

Hi Enabler, your suggestions / experience are so relevant and similar to my own and gives me so much hope as to what can be accomplished. I am not nearly as worried about my children as I was before, as my raging was what brought me to face my co-dependency in the first place. Are you having any success setting similar boundaries in your relationship with your wife? This is the next dimension for me in breaking from co-dependency.

Hi Notwendy, thank you so much for sharing. My childhood was almost the same: (probably) BPD mother and passive father, hence the problems I'm facing now. But I am finding my love for my father and understanding he didn't have the resources I have now.

Thanks Tattered Heart, I think your planning idea is great. I can pretty much anticipate when certain situations will arise and can plan accordingly.  

[Enabler]

Are you having any success setting similar boundaries in your relationship with your wife?

Hey there RoE,

It's difficult to gauge what success is with my wife, she wants a divorce and I don't and we've had a couple of sessions of legal mediation so far but it still doesn't feel very convincing yet. I measure success at the moment in terms of understanding the behavior, linking thought process cause & effect. I measure my personal success by my ability to slow my instinct to step in and say "hey Enabler, this is none of your business, no good will come from trying to help here". I now wait for everything to kick off and then once the 2 children (one 38yrs old and one of the D9/D7/D4) have retreated I pick up the pieces. So I suppose I am having a lot of success with the boundary of "this is not my argument, I'm staying out, do not try and triangulate me."

On the Children front, one tool I have found VERY useful is the I AM MAD communication tool from the book "When Hope is Not Enough", this was originally designed for validating pwBPD, but I have found it works amazingly with my D9/D7 because it helps them feel like I understand them and I validate them.

www.anythingtostopthepain.com/i-am-mad-communication-skill/

I-AM-MAD
1. Identify the emotions.

It’s best to do this with “feeling” words, like “look”, “see”, or “sound”, rather than “know” or “understand”.

Examples:

“I see that you are frustrated.”
“You sound aggravated.”
“You look really upset.”
2. Ask a validating question.

This encourages them to share their feelings about whatever triggered them. Do not use “what’s wrong?” If you use “what’s wrong?” they will hear “what’s wrong with YOU?” Also, don’t assume you did anything wrong. Remember, IAAHF (It’s All About His/Her Feelings).

Examples:

“What happened?” (most effective because it is open-ended, requires more than yes/no answer)
“Did something go wrong at work [school] today?”
“Want to talk about it?”
3. Make a validating statement about their emotion.

Validate the feelings expressed in step 2. This helps reinforce that it is natural and valid to feel what they are feeling in the situation. Again, remember IAAHF. Don’t defend against blaming or projecting. And don’t apologize at this point, even if you are guilty. (Apologies for things you are actually guilty of can come later… after they have returned to their emotional baseline.)

Examples:

“Wow, it must have made you feel awful to have done poorly on that test.”
“Yes, it is frustrating when it seems that someone is taking advantage of you.”
“Yeah, that’s really disappointing.”
4. Make a normalizing statement about their emotion.

By relating the situation as common to all people or “normal” for them, this helps alleviate their stress about feeling judged or unaccepted.

Examples:

“I think anyone would feel angry if they had to do that”
“I would feel the same way if that happened to me.”
“I can see why you feel that way.”
5. Analyze the consequences of their behavior.

By examining the consequences of both negative and positive behavior with the person, you help them to separate their emotional reaction from their behavior. The behavior may need to be changed, but the emotions are natural and should not be punished for.

Examples:

“When you don’t ask questions about something that confuses you, I don’t realize that you are struggling, so I can’t help you. When you do ask questions though, I can either give you the information you need to solve the problem yourself or we can work together to figure out the best solution to the problem.”
“When you yell at me, I feel disrespected and become upset too. However, when you speak calmly to me, I know you have respect for me, so I am able to listen to you better.”
“When you refuse to talk to me, I don’t know what else to do except give you space.When something is bothering you, it’s best to be open and honest with me so I know what’s going on and don’t make the wrong assumptions about what you need.
6. Don’t solve the problem for them.

Solving one’s own problems helps to build self-confidence.Empower the person by getting them to come up with a solution themselves.When given the opportunity in a non-judgmental setting, most people will find that they can come up with solutions to their problems. You can guide them through this process by asking helpful questions to ascertain what they need or want.

Examples:

“How would you like to handle this?”
“What would help you make a better choice next time?”
“Is there anything I can do to help?”
(Note: Sometimes you have to go back and forth to help them find the most effective solution. They may say, “I don’t know” or “I don’t care.” This can be tough. Go back to step one to deal with any additional emotions that become apparent.)

A few other things I have found useful:
- Children (and probably adults, especially pwBPD) often skip their primary emotional reaction and go straight to anger. I came home to a situation where my D9 was holed up in her room and uBPDw was storming around... .something had gone down and I felt inclined to unravel the ball of string safe in the knowledge that "the fight" was over. It turned out after a lot of I AM MAD that D4 had kicked off at the dinner table and it had made D9 sad. She sees that the stress and anxiety of others playing up causes uBPDw to get angry and dysregulate and she doesn't like it. W had promised D9 a cuddle on the sofa and some quality time and D9 felt that this was put at risk. So... .D9 skips from sadness (weak helpless emotion) to full on rant and melt down anger (powerful emotion). uBPDw didn't identify this and therefore got angry with her, ejected her from the kitchen and said she couldn't have any pudding, WW3 broke out and I walked in some 30m after to the aftermath. The point was that had I have got angry with Eva for her bad behaviour I would have TOTALLY MISSED the primary emotion which was sadness. Sadness that her sister was misbehaving and cause uBPDw to dysregulate. It took calmness not to get wrapped up in the obvious emotion of anger to look through to see what was going down. D9 and I talked about how and why she moved from a helpless emotion that would have gotten sympathy to anger which got punishment. We talked about how she could have improved the situation for herself.
- Saying nothing and listening is just as effective as advice... .that pause you might give an adult to say something in a conversation... .make it longer and they will fill it with how they feel, say as little as possible in fact.
- Your job as a parent is not to do things for your kids, it's to "manage the transition between being a baby to being a fully functioning adult", set age appropriate boundaries and allow them to make mistakes... .mistakes are VERY important. This is an area I have struggled with as mistakes = stress = anxiety = uBPDw & me having emotional pain... .sit with that pain.

You can make a huge difference to the quality of your children's lives. You can be the source of stability they need and it doesn't necessarily matter that you might work all day and your wife is primary caregiver. Those times you are with them, the children will be able to effectively identify their emotions, practice rational thought and learn to solve their own problems.

[RolandOfEld]

Thank you, Enabler. I am sorry things are not progressing well with your wife at the moment but I greatly admire all you have put into making a stable home for your children. I suppose we have to think long term in these things. If we compromise our own parenting beliefs to get the kids out from under mom's hair for a while, perhaps it might calm her down for a few hours, but as the children grow more and more out of control due to all this throwing them around it will only cause more conflict later.

Example from this past weekend, I was trying to cook dinner and manage the kids at the same time while my wife was dysregulating, which of course doesn't work. My wife always puts on a cartoon for them when she cooks, but if I do this she'll yell at me for just using cartoons as if she doesn't need to do the exact same thing. So I was going through the usual running between food burning in the pan and stopping an argument between the two kids. Finally I realized I was helping absolutely no one by putting on the harried dad show and turned on Nick Jr for them. Dinner was finished in ten and no one had a meltdown; rather everyone calmed down.   

Thanks so much for sharing about the I-AM-MAD technique, which I see is similar to the SET technique but more elaborated. My son is just getting old enough to understand and experience validation / non-validation, so this is a huge help.

[Lakebreeze]

Hi!
I just wanted to chime in and second the recommendation that Enabler made for the book " When hope is not enough"  it is especially helpful if you feel very committed to the relationship for whatever reason. Another excellent read is "Stop care taking the Narcissist or Borderline"
And thanks for starting this thread! It has been a wealth of information and helpful ideas. I'm a stay-at-home mom to our young kids. My husband is undiagnosedBPD. I think the hardest thing about my own co-dependent tendencies is that I can be so blind to them. It's how i have acted as long as I can remember so it's really hard to see it sometimes.
Best wishes

[RolandOfEld]

Thank you, Lakebreeze! I've already downloaded a free preview and will give it a look.

It is hard to see it. We get used to ways of living and assume they are correct until we are shown something different. I believe we need to get into the thinking that, no, this is not normal, this is not OK, and we have to make changes if they are not going to.

Hope my experience was of some help to you, too!

[Enabler]

My wife always puts on a cartoon for them when she cooks, but if I do this she'll yell at me for just using cartoons as if she doesn't need to do the exact same thing. So I was going through the usual running between food burning in the pan and stopping an argument between the two kids. Finally I realized I was helping absolutely no one by putting on the harried dad show and turned on Nick Jr for them. Dinner was finished in ten and no one had a meltdown; rather everyone calmed down. 

It's tough to stand back and take stock when someone is dysregulating around you. On the one hand you want to passivize her to encourage her stop yelling and on the other hand you know how to handle the situation... .but this is what you did and is the way forward. You had strength in your knowledge you knew what you were doing and you cracked on. Well done. Did you say anything to your wife whilst she was upset at you about the cartoons? Did you JADE?

[RolandOfEld]

Thanks, Enabler. I just explained clearly I was going to put on a cartoon for them while I finished dinner. I recall she muttered something sarcastic back but didn't try to stop me.

I try not to JADE and often succeed. The thing I can stand the least while she is dysregulated is being undermined and humiliated. But the thing I asked myself recently was, humiliated in front of who? Ok her, sure, but inside she knows she has problems just as I do and will respond with criticism no matter what I admit or don't. The kids? They're still too small to understand the concept. Myself? Then I must have some serious self compassion issues if I left what she says hurt me that deeply.

I come away with much more inner strength if I do what I believe it right rather than do/say anything to try and soothe her. I'm not truly helping her by doing this either.

I guess many of us can relate to the question we have to ask ourselves every day: do I want to do what I need to have a good night, or a good life? I know I often choose the former.

[Enabler]

RoE, you're being wise, you're the glue that is holding things together, you're important and EVERYONE needs you. I'm not suggesting you take a stance of arrogance but act with consciousness that you think about your actions and you do your best... .sometimes you will fail, and that's okay, sometime you will be wrong and no doubt your W will try and make you feel bad that you didn't listen to her... .but you acted with consciousness.

I asked my FIL recently how he dealt with my MIL's constant criticism and demeaning comments, some of which are very personal and very specific. He is a wonderful man, highly apt and very gentle... ."I know she doesn't mean it." I personally don't know that my MIl or my W don't mean it, in fact I think they very much do, but like emotions, they come and they go and my MIL for one has no recollection of her outbursts once she's back to baseline. He is clearly stronger than me.

One thing to note and I think this is a VERY IMPORTANT bit... .the kids DON'T KNOW their mother doesn't mean it. To me this is the primary way that BPD goes from generation to generation. My wife is severely emotionally scared because of her mothers outbursts of anger, criticism and degradation. My FIL never stopped my MIL when my wife was younger, and he still doesn't say anything to her when she's ripping into my W or others. His silence is complicit as much as my MIL's outbursts and frankly he should know better as the "sane" one. A great read on this is Toxic Parents. Have you ever noticed with your kids, the concept of doing a bad thing and being a bad person (I suppose the separation of guilt (thing) and shame (your being)) are one. so if you tell your kids off and said something like ":)9, stop being so lazy and come over here and put your shoes in the rack", you might get a comment such as "I know you think I'm lazy". I noticed that she took 'a thing' and applied it to her entire being. Constantly being berated by their mother has an incremental effect of asserting that they are bad, wrong, thick, naughty, rude, lazy, worthless. Add to this that kids are genetically programmed to love their parents and believe they are infallible, the child turns they mothers disgust in on themselves... ."Mum is Mum and she loves me, she is infallible and she is telling me I am rude, therefore I must be rude because she cannot be wrong."  My FIL never corrected this so my W has growth up thinking she was all of the above (reinforced by her mum giving her the silent treatment for 2 weeks in a row)... .but it's okay... .because "She didn't mean it".

The result is BPD, which results in anger, being emotionally unavailable, chaotic behavior, inconsistent boundaries... .and so the cycle continues. 

[Notwendy]

I admire all posters here for your strength as a parent and insight into how this affects generations. Changing this as a parent was a main motivator for me to work on co-dependency. Thankfully my H didn't say mean and disparaging things to me in front of the children-like my BPD mother did with my father- but there were issues between us that were affecting the children and it concerned me.

I can relate to the impulse to give in to demands- to gain peace for the moment ,but in the long run- perpetuate the dysfunction. When the kids were little- sometimes the question was - do I want to get some sleep or stay up all night having an argument or circular discussion? Often sleep won. I can also recall the kids' behaviors - they pick up on stress and act out.

I agree that family patterns of dysfunction persists between generations. What a child grows up with is perceived as "normal" to them. That doesn't necessarily mean the child will grow up to have BPD but there can be affects on their self esteem and how they choose their future relationships. For me, it wasn't my mother who appeared "normal" but I perceived my father as the normal one- as a victim of my mother's behavior. It was only later when I worked on my own co-dependent traits that I realized his role in their relationship.

Don't underestimate the good though. Both my H and I also took many good values from our families- morals, the value of hard work and education, and appreciation for the arts - to name a few. I also understand that there were no resources like this board for my parents for most of their marriage. I know they did the best they could with what they had available to them- and I want to use what we know now to do better.

I think it is great for the kids to have a stable parent as a role model. One idea to consider is the factors that build resilience in kids. I had other role models as well- relatives, some of my friends' mothers.

One of the reasons kids act up is for attention. Kids will choose negative attention ( being yelled at) over no attention. Parents who are pre-occupied, or who are not emotionally intact- might not be aware of what they are paying attention to. If the kids are behaving - the parent may not be paying attention to them- so they act up, get yelled at. With any attention, the behaviors will increase. The parent with BPD may not be aware of this or motivated to change. I think plenty of positive attention from the other parent will help this. Also- to foster their talents as a source of self esteem- whether it is academics, sports, the arts- anything where they are getting positive attention can help.

Another one is honesty about BPD. The kids will start to ask questions. They will see that other mothers don't act like theirs. In my FOO, my mother's issues were a family secret- we were forbidden to say anything about her behavior. I know it is difficult to discuss the other parent- so perhaps a counselor would be a good resource. As a teen, my mother blamed me for the issues between my parents - my normal teen behaviors were seen as causing trouble. I actually believed that when I left for college, all would be harmonious between them.  This of course wasn't true. I think that offering counseling to the kids -when they are old enough-  a place where they can speak freely, ask questions- can go a long way to help them with their own sense of self.

[Enabler]

FWIW, my uBPDw went to therapy in '07 and looked at her parents influence on her life, she approached her parents and their response was "I have no idea what you're talking about." Very sad, but sadly very common. Even where one parent might be blissfully unaware of their behavior and the impact they have on others, the other accomplice opts to bury their head in the sand and deny the elephants existence.

There's a lot to be said for the statement "Please can you not speak to me like that, it's not acceptable". Other board members have come up with strategies to penalize such bad behavior with boundaries. "If you speak to me like that, I will not communicate with you at all on any matter for 24 hours." 

[Notwendy]

Enabler- sadly, I don't think your wife's situation with her parents isn't unusual- they may be in denial, or they may have been raised in a similar situation and consider that what they say/do is normal.

If I were to approach my parents like she did, I'd either get the same answer or be punished for daring to ask them. My BPD mother was not accountable for her behavior and my father ( except for rare occasions) would not discuss it.

I have even approached her FOO to ask about any family dysfunction, not from a critical standpoint but for my own information and personal growth. I have no proof, but I suspect my mother was abused and possibly sexual abused by someone as a child. I have no idea who, may have been a relative or a neighbor. Her FOO only says all is fine, nothing was abnormal and nothing is wrong with my mother.

Fortunately her behavior was so obvious to me as a child and teen that I knew it wasn't normal. I do wish someone had explained her disorder to me. It is easier for me to have compassion for her knowing it is a disorder.

My H maintains that he had a happy childhood and his family is normal but the dysfunction became apparent to me over time. Compared to my childhood- his parents appeared "normal". I think one result of growing up in a dysfunctional family is that kids don't know what "normal" is.

Your wife's parents may be in denial or they may truly be unaware of their own dysfunction.

The way I got my father's approval growing up was to be compliant with my mother so as not to upset her. I was a parentified child and another emotional caretaker. The message I got was to be a doormat in order to be loved- accept verbal abuse, walk on eggshells, people please. My H has a temper ( verbal- not physical) and I would try to protect him from the kids and the kids from his anger. I don't know which was worse- my role modeling being a doormat or his moods.

[Enabler]

Fortunately her behavior was so obvious to me as a child and teen that I knew it wasn't normal. I do wish someone had explained her disorder to me. It is easier for me to have compassion for her knowing it is a disorder.

I don't think my wife, her sister or her father believe her behavior to be 'normal' but none of them bar this one incidence are prepared to seriously address it. I discussed it with my W in the summer and she rather aggressively said "I know it needs addressing" to which I said "Unfortunately the result will be that she will disown you and cut you out of her life." I don't know if my W has made the association between her mums behavior and BPD, I certainly see the parallels. Like you I see her behavior with compassion now, in much the same way I see my wife's behavior with compassion despite the hurt and family destruction it causes me. I sometimes think that if my W were able to fully understand the causes of her Mums rage she might be able to accept the kind of relationship she is capable of having with her rather than attempting to have the CONSISTENT loving/caring relationship she has always wanted but never achieved. She might also be able to accept her own dysfunction and deal with it.

[RolandOfEld]

Enabler, you are so right. We as adults can separate dysregulation from reality, kids can't. That's what scares me more than anything because my own childhood clearly made me see the world in a twisted enough way that I was willing to endure years of marital abuse thinking it still fell in the range of "OK". I don't want my kids to end up the same way. As Notwendy very accurately noted, mental illness is something that can be "passed through the generations".

Nearly everyone in my mother's family suffered from some form of mental illness. In my father's family, everyone is quite calm and quiet but no one ever addresses problems. I would like to be the one in this generation to change things, but its very hard, especially when my wife has this problem. But I will never give up hope!

[Enabler]

I would like to be the one in this generation to change things, but its very hard, especially when my wife has this problem. But I will never give up hope!

That's the spirit. I have read numerous times that it only takes one highly validating person to significantly reduce the chances of a child developing BPD later in life. Historically there has not been the same awareness of mental illness, globally, nationally and probably in your family. You are now aware and can enact change... .you are already doing that by researching mental illness online, exploring yourself, exploring how you can help your SO's... .that's a good thing. Hope isn't enough, but positive actions can make a difference. This isn't something to put in your burden bag FWIW, you can only do so much and things may not go perfectly in the future, but you will have more clarity. Use this clarity wisely, every time one of your kids has a melt down, that doesn't mean they have BPD, that means they're kids. 

How do you feel your FOO (family of origin) impacts your thoughts and emotions today?

[Notwendy]

I agree that the input of a validating adult can go a long way.

I don't think it is inevitable that children raised in a family with mental illness will inevitably have those disorders. My mother has BPD but there are few individuals in our family tree with full mental illness, but there is an increase in the results of that- such as anxiety, depression, PTSD from the verbal abuse, and co-dependent traits.

There is also a difference in resilience. Some family members are more resilient than others. For some children it is just their nature. However, there are factors that increase resilience- a validating adult is one of them.

For us, a big factor was that our mother wasn't interested in full time child raising so when school was not in session, we got to spend time with my father's FOO- and there was no BPD in his immediate family. We got to spend time with a loving and consistent family and I think this made a big difference. Also, my father did parent us in a loving way when I was younger- it was when I was older that my mother saw me as more of a threat. Teens tend to assert their individuality and I was a typical teen but this was seen as disruptive to her. If I didn't passively obey her, my father would get angry at me.

Along the theme of invalidation- while I wouldn't say all members of my mother's FOO are dysfunctional - they are invalidating personalities. One doesn't ever feel "enough" for them. They seem to be critical and demeaning. I don't even know if they are aware of it.

Every bit of consistent love and validation your kids get from you and others can help.

 




 

[teapay]

I validate my kids as part of fact finding aND I validate healthy positive behaviors, thought and attitudes.  I explicitly invalidate and give consequences for negative behaviors.  I also extend these principles of validation and invalidation to thoughts, attitudes and feelings where possible, age appropriately.  I also extend these principles to my BPD wife.

If you want healthy behavior to have to train and demand it otherwise the immature mind will gravitate towards its own self service by any means necessary.

[AskingWhy]

Learning coping and communication skills are important to living with a pwBPD, but also learning to predict behaviors.

I can pretty well predict when my uBPD/uNPD H will start to dysregulate and descend into an episode of rage and splitting.

I have also come to cope with these episodes with communication skills.

It's not easy to have a spouse with BPD, but at least your W suspects she has issues that are not normal.

For the most part, pwBPD are truly frightened and unhappy people and don't deliberately like the chaos they cause for themselves and others.

FWIW, my uBPDw went to therapy in '07 and looked at her parents influence on her life, she approached her parents and their response was "I have no idea what you're talking about." Very sad, but sadly very common. Even where one parent might be blissfully unaware of their behavior and the impact they have on others, the other accomplice opts to bury their head in the sand and deny the elephants existence.

There's a lot to be said for the statement "Please can you not speak to me like that, it's not acceptable". Other board members have come up with strategies to penalize such bad behavior with boundaries. "If you speak to me like that, I will not communicate with you at all on any matter for 24 hours."  

Enabler is correct that "enabling" is a large dynamic in dysfunctional families.  

My H is so terrified with what is going on inside his head but unwilling to take a deeper look at himself.   He rages and says it's all my fault.

I know as a fact that his uNPD father (my FIL) was a contributing factor to the way my H is today.  H left home at 18 to enter the working world to get away from his father.  FIL is now elderly and still a self-absorbed, pathetic mess of a man.  My MIL was the enabler in all of it.  :)uring their half-century marriage she truly thought she was treated like a queen.  In actuality, she was her husband's pack mule and work horse (and the butt of "jokes" who allowed him to use the joint income for his pastimes and hobbies.  They lived at poverty level.  

[RolandOfEld]

Hi AskingWhy, it would have meant everything to me if my father had not enabled my mother's problems and reassured me following my mother's rages, but sadly he didn't have that ability, he could only ask me to do what she said. I can be different for my children. 

Thanks, teapay. I like how your frame validation as "principles" rather than a psychological skill for interacting with someone with BPD. As Enabler highlighted so well, validation extends beyond our partners and to everyone in our lives. It is a basic human principle that we only apply to a more exaggerated degree with those with BPD. My father's family, though more psychologically stable, is a series of pathological "invalidators", and I certainly had this trait until recently.

While I am not happy to have a spouse with BPD, I am happy to have the opportunity to walk away from long family dysfunctional tendencies, even if I needed an extreme situation such as I'm in to learn all this. I think it also increased my resilience as you mention, NotWendy.

There is a positive side to everything.