She had my first Bible rebound..without asking.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

The backstory behind this Bible is precious to me.  I rarely used it, because I wanted to preserve it, be careful with it.

Oddly enough... .we had a joint parental discussion with S8 yesterday... .about respecting the stuff of others.

It's hard to express the sorrow... .the shock... .

FF

[formflier]

The backstory behind this Bible is precious to me.  I rarely used it, because I wanted to preserve it, be careful with it.

Oddly enough... .we had a joint parental discussion with S8 yesterday... .about respecting the stuff of others.

It's hard to express the sorrow... .the shock... .

FF

[mama-wolf]

FF, I'm so sorry.  I can imagine the sense of loss and violation that has come with this, and don't really know what to say.

mw

[formflier]

Thanks for the hug... .

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I have a white leather-bound Bible that my mother gave me when I was little. Reading her inscription inside still brings me to tears.

I'm very sorry, FF.   

[love4meNOTu]

I'm sorry this happened formflier.

I've had to hide or lock things that were very precious to me away from sight.

And I can tell you that I would never consider touching my partners things... from his phone down to his dental floss.

It's a tough one because on the outside it's a "nice" thing, but if she knew how you felt about the bible and did it anyway, it's just vindictive.

[empath]

I'm so sorry that happened. It is such a weird spot to be in when something they do can seem so good to others but be so invalidating and hurtful.

[formflier]

Adding in the context that "more often than not" she speaks of my "religious upbringing" with contempt and derision.

"you didn't go to that church because you love God... .you "just" wanted to hang with your peeps" (the people I like and grew up with)

Wow... .

The church is no good... .therefore I will...

His first Bible is no good... .therefore I will... .

FF

[Cat Familiar]

She certainly is not behaving in a Jesus-like manner.

[Enabler]

What do you think was the motivation for getting the bible rebound?

If you removed your sentimental value to its old state, and any other emotional attachment to its condition, could you see this as a nice gesture?

I’m trying to play devils advocate here but like a child who removes a plant from a plant pot to make a mud pie, then produces the mud pie as a gift, they are unaware that the plant was wanted.

Are you being generous with your opinion of her motivations. I may be way out of whack here but I can think of better ways to hurt someone that renovating a bible, such as burning it.

It very much sucks to have your precious things tampered with. Sentimental value holds no weight with a person with BPD... .unless it’s their things.

[Cat Familiar]

I can see how FF is thinking. She has criticized him for "not being a Christian" because his religious background differs from hers. And she has tried to "remodel" him in her own particular faith, even being threatened by him seeing secular medical professionals and his psychologist, though she is a Christian.

To give her the benefit of the doubt and posit that she was doing a kind gesture also implies a great emotional gulf in that she would not recognize the sanctity of his Bible, just the way it was.

[Enabler]

But why not make the bible disappear?

Has the new Bible had any connection to FFs denomination removed from it? Was there something on the original binding that she found offensive or conflicting towards her denomination or beliefs?

[Cat Familiar]

I think the rebinding is a classic metaphor for polishing up the old FF into a newer image that she controlled.

[formflier]

I had a long talk with P...

I'm writing my wife a note... .of thanks... .with gentle clarification of boundaries.

To be accurate... it is "rare" that my wife has anything positive to say about my home church, upbringing... .religious habits.  Certainly "more often than not"... .there is contempt in whatever is being said.

My "kind" and "thankful" response... .with gentle boundaries... .will help clarify her true intentions.

Important to put in in a thanks letter or card... .so there is no eye contact... .and it gives her time to process.

Working on it now.

Oh... .I'll end by saying.  There is no way to know her intentions.  Based on our history... .the "best" I can say is it was thoughtless and forgetful.

I regularly ask... .to be asked first... .about my stuff.

I've shutdown access to my stuff in many different areas... because of disrespect.  So... .I have to acknowledge what is the "likely" answer... .but also acknowledge that there are other options... .that are reasonable.

FF

[formflier]

thoughts?


FFw,

Thank you so much for trying to preserve my first Bible.  I’m sure you intended this as a kind and generous act.  Thank you.

Going forward, I would ask that if you want to make changes to any of my personal effects, you ask me first, especially if they will be permanently altered in any way.

I have many fond memories of this Bible.  Over the years I had to treat it with special reverence and delicate handling because of it’s worn character.  Many of the memories are in that character.  

Thanks again for the thought.

Love,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Wow, you're having to navigate through some rocky shoals here.

This is a good first draft, but I see some danger lurking here and of course, you've been really wounded by her action, though she may not have intended that at all.

Since I'm a very direct person, I have a difficult time with subtle nuances, so I'm not going to try and edit your response.

I will say that for me, it might help to put sentence number 3 before sentence number 2.

You want to state a boundary about your personal things being inviolate, but somehow that sentence comes across as harsh. Maybe some wordsmiths here can preserve the meaning, but soften it somewhat.

[Enabler]

Totally agree, switch paragraph 3 with 2. You say thanks, you state why it’s worm state holds memories (like the notches and kids scribbles on an old family kitchen table), then you state your boundary... .well technically you are stating a rule.

How does this message pan out if her intentions were honourable? Does it invalidate her efforts to do something nice? How can you soften the rule with love and tenderness that reaffirms a generous assumption of her intent to do good? What would happen if you left out the rule and just praised a generous assumption of her intent? You might not “learn” anything BUT you would not reward her with displeasure if there was any inkling of negative I tend or intent to wound you?

I don’t know your wife, you do, but I still struggle to rationalize renovating something rather than destroying it irrespective of her previous derisory comments about your faith and family. It just doesn’t fit... .a child or teenager would not do that with ill intent.

[formflier]

Big picture:

One of the "problems" with PDs is that "in their world" they are doing nice things and we are the ones "effed up" for not realizing it.

My husbands a sinner... .he needs to know... .I'm saving him... .I wake him up in middle of night and "save him"... .my husband doesn't appreciate me... I wonder what's wrong with my husband.  (without a clue... .even a thought... .that they contribute or could be wrong)

There is a presumption that they know what we are actually thinking... .and if we don't "admit" that... .we should be punished until we realize.

In this "gift" there is a presumption that I would experience this as a positive thing... that I will appreciate it.

"more often that not"... .things like this go badly... .because I don't appreciate her gestures and ask to talk first.  Since "she knows" I really don't mean that... .why should she change?

There is history where this could be completely innocent and "meant well".  There is more history that suggests otherwise.

That being said... .I get to decide where to take my response... .I need to limit my response to "this incident"... and then see where it goes.


FF

[love4meNOTu]

FF- why isn't it ok to ask her... "Why did you recover my bible?" Without any affect in your voice at all... .

What would the repercussions be if you did that?

[GaGrl]

It must be frustrating to not know which of your personal items are "safe."

In our house (read... .a normal marriage), we are crystal clear on what we share and what is each other's personal property. For example, anything left from DH's military career is his and his alone - I wouldn't dream of messing with it.

So... .to me it comes back to boundaries.

[formflier]

FF- why isn't it ok to ask her... "Why did you recover my bible?" Without any affect in your voice at all... .

What would the repercussions be if you did that?

Most likely response would be something along lines of "you should know why... ." 

If she was very chill she might say something along the lines of "what... .do you not like it?"

but really... .who knows.  She could just say "i figured you would like it."

FF

[PeteWitsend]

The backstory behind this Bible is precious to me.  I rarely used it, because I wanted to preserve it, be careful with it.

Oddly enough... .we had a joint parental discussion with S8 yesterday... .about respecting the stuff of others.

It's hard to express the sorrow... .the shock... .

FF

I've been through that before.  Wife hates... .HATES... .any signs of my life from before we were married.  there are therefore no pictures in our house earlier than 2013.  (I insisted she follow the same rule). 

after a few of my things showed up missing and she denied throwing them away, but it was clear she did, I just got a personal storage place on the DL and moved it all there.  all mail goes to my office & I pay the monthly fee in cash. 

I know how you feel FF... .some may say "these are only THINGS, who cares?" but you feel a mixture of sadness over the loss of something you treasured, something from your past and all warm memories associated with that.  and on top of that there's the anger, the knowledge that someone, knowing how important that is to you, would intentionally destroy it, or in your case despoil it I suppose, just to hurt you.

[I Am Redeemed]

FF,

So sorry this happened. In my opinion it was a clear violation of something of value to you. If it was not meant to be vindictive, then at the very least it implies that she felt that she had the right to change something so special to you and therefore did not acknowledge that the rule which you tried to impart to D8 (respect what belongs to others) also applies to her. If done intentionally, there is some serious vendetta stuff going on here. I think her earlier criticisms about your motives regarding church attendance are very telling.

I think your note is well-put, but I agree about switching 2 and 3. Mainly because I think she (as a pwBPD) will probably be angry once she reads the boundary part. So she may never even make it to the part about how the memories of the Bible were preserved in its character.

I don't think it's being too harsh, I think it's a clear statement of your right to be consulted about permanent changes being made to your personal belongings.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

  So sorry about the loss of your Bible,

Redeemed