D12 happy that she got prescribed testosterone

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

  I just wanted to point out that I'm reffering to my child as D12 and I'm not trying to offend members by reffering my child as her instead of he I do respect her wishes in real life and address by her male name and refer to her as he but for the sake of this discussion I'm sharing with members just as I would with a T or close confidante and would like the same luxuries to speak freely.

My D12 asked me to think over her prescription for cross hormones, she's been on hormone blockers for 4 months and I can't believe that things are moving this quickly she was really happy and I didn't want to spoil her moment. My biggest concern is what if she changes her mind I read about one boy that went through a gender change at the age of 12 and then changed his mind two years later.

Every thing is new for her right now, she's interested and learning everything that there is to know about transgender is there a possibility that this will wear off and that she'll regret later on taking testosterone? Is she taking it for the right reasons? What I mean is there is a possibility that she fell in love with one specific friend and is trying to change genders to be with this girl. She's only 12 I don't understand this rush to have her on testosterone is the health field worried that if they don't prescribe it to her that they'll face a lawsuit when she's an adult.

She asked permission she's not currently on them.

[Mutt]

  I just wanted to point out that I'm reffering to my child as D12 and I'm not trying to offend members by reffering my child as her instead of he I do respect her wishes in real life and address by her male name and refer to her as he but for the sake of this discussion I'm sharing with members just as I would with a T or close confidante and would like the same luxuries to speak freely.

My D12 asked me to think over her prescription for cross hormones, she's been on hormone blockers for 4 months and I can't believe that things are moving this quickly she was really happy and I didn't want to spoil her moment. My biggest concern is what if she changes her mind I read about one boy that went through a gender change at the age of 12 and then changed his mind two years later.

Every thing is new for her right now, she's interested and learning everything that there is to know about transgender is there a possibility that this will wear off and that she'll regret later on taking testosterone? Is she taking it for the right reasons? What I mean is there is a possibility that she fell in love with one specific friend and is trying to change genders to be with this girl. She's only 12 I don't understand this rush to have her on testosterone is the health field worried that if they don't prescribe it to her that they'll face a lawsuit when she's an adult.

She asked permission she's not currently on them.

[Panda39]

Hi Mutt,

I really don't know anything about taking hormones but it did occur to me that it could be tied to adolescents and our natural hormonal changes at that time.

You may have already said in another post but is your daughter in Therapy?  It is my understanding that it is very important to have that when making this transition.

Is there a LGBTQ organization in your area where you might go to talk with someone or maybe has a parents group, where you could learn more about the process and be with parents that are going through the same thing.

It might be good twofold... .good for you to get more information and support and show your daughter that you want to understand more so you can support her better.

Hang in there,
Panda39

[Mutt]

Hi Panda39,

You are correct, younger kids that say that they feel like the opposite sex usually grow out of it, when puberty is triggered the child will notice that hey my body parts don't match with how I feel it's rare at that age that they grow out of it.

They'll pause puberty by prescribing hormone blockers those can be taken up to two years and they'll be able to better tell if this is really gender dysphoria. Hormone blockers are completely reversible whereas taking cross hormones (testosterone) are not reversible.

She started seeing a P for feeling SI and gender dysphoria in March or April of this year so 7 to 8 months, I talked to the P and she said that she definitely has gender dysphoria and suggested hormone blockers it's reversible I didn't have a problem with that but this is permanent I thought that I had time.

My D12 says that she wants mom to have full custody so that she takes hormones / gender transition. She says that she'll return to my house under certain conditions ( emotional blackmail ) and I have exuBPDw demonising me and making it look like she's saving D12 from a bad father - this is not the right way to do this.

I know that this is different, if you take anti depressants it takes a month to 6 weeks for it to start taking effect after a years passes you can gauge the effectiveness of the drug. Am I wrong in thinking that all of this is going by too fast? I can see how people might see it as a father that's in denial.

You may have already said in another post but is your daughter in Therapy?

Yes she's seeing a Psychologist that specialises in LGBTQ.

Is there a LGBTQ organization in your area where you might go to talk with someone or maybe has a parents group, where you could learn more about the process and be with parents that are going through the same thing

Yes there is. I have not gone yet, I am waiting to talk to a T for myself. That's a good suggestion Panda39 you're right that would work twofold.

[ForeverDad]

Oh, my, I was confused before.  I had previously interpreted it as a male child desiring to transition to female.

Yes, I use the word child because I'm one of those who feel it's a concern to interfere with natural processes.  She's still 5 or more years from becoming an adult.  It's also why I stopped commenting on this topic since that concept seems to be viewed as too old fashioned or out-of-date in today's society.  Sorry, that's me and my perspective.

That said, I am very concerned that permission to take the drugs is being linked to restored visitation.  Is this the carrot to the blocking stick?  I definitely feel Ex has had a hand in this dilemma, however subtly.

Children can be manipulated.  When my son, who had previously for years (ages 3 to 9) always declared he wanted more time with me, got into my car at an exchange and immediately said, "I want 50/50 time" I knew it was ex's prompting though her name was never mentioned.  I was seeking custody and had just won the first step in my Change of Circumstances motion and a GAL had been assigned for my son.  He was 9 years old.  Clearly ex didn't want to lose the 50/50 that she and I had then.  Then a few years later when he was approaching 12 years of age, my ex got an "in camera" interview with the judge and GAL scheduled.  Until then the court magistrates had never met my son.  I don't know the details, I don't think they asked directly about his parental preferences.  But the decision included that he avoided eye contact when talking about his mother but was normal when talking about me.

That's why I have reservations about the 'why' of her wishes.  Maybe it's about her friend, maybe it's about her mother, maybe it is the claimed gender dysphoria.  But with the next (evidently rushed) medical wish combined with the carrot of resumed visits - which carrot offer could be yanked away, my antennae start vibrating.  What about "Don't link visits with this, restore visits and we'll discuss the matter"?  After all, a typical wait period can be 2 years as mentioned already, fix the visitation now then give the wait period time for proper assessment.

You are correct, younger kids that say that they feel like the opposite sex usually grow out of it... .  They'll pause puberty by prescribing hormone blockers those can be taken up to two years and they'll be able to better tell if this is really gender dysphoria.

My D12 says that she wants mom to have full custody so that she takes hormones / gender transition. She says that she'll return to my house under certain conditions... .

Legal side note... .If you have this prospect she expressed documented (text? email?) it could help you later prove that any allegations of being a bad Dad are contrived since custody and visits have just been linked to the medical decisions.

Edit:  When I was 12 I was in 7th grade.  While I recall hormones were starting their tasks, I didn't notice girls, really notice them, until I was a freshman a couple years later.  I always tell my story that that was the year I noticed who the prettiest girl on the school bus was and often managed to find a way to sit nearby if not sometimes even in the seat with her... .  I was 14.  Sadly I was quite reserved if not shy too.

[Harley Quinn]

My D12 asked me to think over her prescription for cross hormones, she's been on hormone blockers for 4 months and I can't believe that things are moving this quickly she was really happy and I didn't want to spoil her moment. My biggest concern is what if she changes her mind I read about one boy that went through a gender change at the age of 12 and then changed his mind two years later.

If I were you, I'd voice the question to the medical team about how many cases they handle with someone so young (not making it about D12 or how serious she is about this) and what the downsides are to taking the hormones in their experience.  Has a young candidate ever regretted it or had complications? 

To be honest, I really can't think what taking the hormones would actually do for her right now.  Perhaps that's something to explore and understand more before being prepared to consider giving permission.  She needs to know that you care about her and her wellbeing long term and yet not feel invalidated or not taken seriously.  That's a really hard position to be in. 

[Turkish]

That the psych community and the government and society isn't going to ask questions or delve into the history of messed up mom and her messes up bf/step-"dad" is a given.  In my opinion,  they failed.  My buddy's niece in law thought she was a boy from toddler hood, which is more typical. 

I can't imagine going though this with my kids,  though I worry about S8 as he's obviously way more attached to me due to his mom (he kissed me on the lips the other night... .nothing wrong with that,  but it caught me unawares).

Given that your daughter is transitioning into a son,  how do you think you'll act going forward? How are her brothers coping with this?

[Mutt]

That said, I am very concerned that permission to take the drugs is being linked to restored visitation.  Is this the carrot to the blocking stick?  I definitely feel Ex has had a hand in this dilemma, however subtly.

I think that the ex is going to attempt the same thing when the other two are older in the context of the ex this is about money by getting full custody of the kids I think that she knows that she's going to have a difficult time getting full custody through court now she's trying to have the kids take sides and go against me.

I'm really surprised and I'm disappointed in D12 I thought that we had a good r/s I had a choice a couple of years ago to go on vacation by myself and I took her with me because I wanted to spend time with her things seemed to have changed shortly after we got back from vacation she didn't want to spend time with me or her brothers, she would spend time in her room or go out with her friends I didn't know that she was having thoughts of SI I thought that it was normal pubescent stuff.


During this period she had long shoulder length hair and she shaved the one side of her head I wasn't happy about it because I wasn't consulted I started to see a trend where I was being bypassed and the things that she wanted were getting done on her time with mom. D12 knows how to work both parents mom has little to no boundaries at her home so if she wants something that she thinks that I won't approve she gets it done on mom's time.

My ex was condescending when my D12 came out "I accepted it right away because I'm open minded why can't you accept it?" I said D12 dropped a bomb and depending on the other person everyone is going to react differently D12 is ahead of me and I need time to catch up with her I reacted normally. I think that D12 has some magical thinking which is normal she's still a kid, I say that because some students and teachers have not accepted that she is a boy and still call her by her girl name she gets very upset. I can understand that it's invalidating but you can't expect people (non's) to embrace this automatically every one reacts differently, some will accept it and some will not.

fix the visitation now then give the wait period time for proper assessment.

That's a really good point thanks for pointing that out and I agree with you.

Legal side note... .If you have this prospect she expressed documented (text? email?) it could help you later prove that any allegations of being a bad Dad are contrived since custody and visits have just been linked to the medical decisions.

I have a screen shot and I have it attached to an email she plainly says I want mom to have custody so I can go through my sex change.

If I were you, I'd voice the question to the medical team about how many cases they handle with someone so young (not making it about D12 or how serious she is about this) and what the downsides are to taking the hormones in their experience.  Has a young candidate ever regretted it or had complications?

I like this too because it turns it back on the medical team and it helps to get a more complete picture without leaving anything out what I mean is I was told that the reason why they do it this young is because a transgender person will face less stigma, rejection, harrasment, bullying if the person physically looks more the gender that they are mentally programmed for. I can understand that but that's one side of the equation the good now what about the bad there has to be a grey area.

Given that your daughter is transitioning into a son,  how do you think you'll act going forward? How are her brothers coping with this?

Actually I'm surprised that her brothers are coping well with this so far they call her by her male name and correct others that say the girl name and say she. I don't think that they truly understand what is going on I think that they are going a long with it because they were told by D12 and the ex.

I felt pressure by the P, D12 and mom when I signed for the hormone blockers for example when I told the P that we should all slow down and go with the flow she asked me a few times if I had a problem with transgender people. That being said I'm not blaming anyone else I signed because I knew that the hormone blockers are reversible now we're talking about a different animal being give testosterone to change your voice, grow facial hair, broader shoulders etc.

I plan on being realistic what is the rush with the hormones? I plan on living my values and that means that regardless of outside pressure I'm not going to compromise because everyone is rushing into this that's fine that they are feel that way and are doing that it's also ok to think differently about it thats' were I stand. My main concern is let's say that we do this now and in two years years from now she says "Dad I changed my mind" what do you then?

I can't honestly completely answer that question what I can say going forward is knowing what I'm not going to do and that's rushing into things - go with the flow what is the rush?

[Catsmother]

Hi Mutt

I think you have every right to be concerned. At 12, children are at a vulnerable age, they are in the midst of puberty, and their thoughts are going in all different directions. She could be confused about her feelings towards other people, either of the opposite sex, or even the same sex. There are reports out there, where psychiatrists are questioning gender reassignment in children. If D12 had been confused about her gender since she was 3 or 4, then you could maybe understand her 'request'. But it is when it is 'sudden', then you really do have to question it. In my opinion, she needs to see a professional about this, because as you said, you don't want her, in a few years time, regretting her decision.

I know of a 12 year old girl, who has just come out as gay. Now, at no stage would I have thought this of this child, and neither do any of her family and friends from interstate. The only family she has here in this state is her mum and her sister. Oh, and the mother's wife. There are a few of us thinking that she has come out as a way of getting attention. Who knows. Is your D12 now getting a lot of attention from her mother, is she getting more attention than before? Just putting it out there.

[Catsmother]

And in 2016, the Obama government decided against having gender reassignment covered under Medicare and Medicaid services under a National Cover Determination, and rather that it would continue on an individual basis.

https://www.cms.gov/medicare-coverage-database/details/nca-proposed-decision-memo.aspx?NCAId=282

[Mutt]

Hi catsmother,

If D12 had been confused about her gender since she was 3 or 4, then you could maybe understand her 'request'. But it is when it is 'sudden', then you really do have to question it.

I'm sorry I had a busy weekend because I worked  two 12 hour shifts on Saturday and Sunday.

I had a session with her P by myself obviously the P couldn't give me information that was between D12 and her I brought your point up, I told the P that there was nothing of the sort in her history for example if she were a toddler sitting in a shopping cart and you pass the boys clothing section and she she cries out for the boy stuff.

The way that she explained it is that once the changes start in your body at puberty I brings it to a transgender child's attention and they don't feel like their body parts match with well what they feel. It's their programming in their mind that doesn't match their body.

I do question it because she displayed effeminate qualities and still does she can be really motherly with the other kids but I think that is do to parentification she gets stuck babysitting the younger kids  I never saw any thing that hinted at it except for one thing a little while before she came out she drew a picture of a boy she used a black and another blue marker with a question mark on the boys face that's the only hint I was confused at time, it was a good drawing I just thought that it was odd.

Who knows. Is your D12 now getting a lot of attention from her mother, is she getting more attention than before? Just putting it out there.

That thought came to mind I don't want to diminish or invalidate gender dysphoria if all of the ideas and thoughts are concentrated on gender dysphoria are we painting a realistic picture or is it too black and white? She does get attention she also gets attention online she has an Instagram account, I suspect that she may be a members on an online group for LGBQT.

I'm glad that others agree that things are moving too quickly I felt like I fell into the Twilight Zone because of how D12, P and exUBPDw are pushing for this I had always thought that I was an open minded person and I had a lot of reservations about this issue, maybe I wasn't up to date or something I thing that it was my intuition warning me that this is too fast what's the rush with the hormones?