I’m new-struggling with holiday SIL

[Our abuse recovery guide]

  Hi everyone! I’m thankful to find this site as I’ve been a little lost and confused for years now.

My younger brother is married to someone who I believe has BPD. She herself is in counseling (for years), has been diagnosised with anxiety, manic depression... she was threatening suicide when dating- if my brother would did not come over - so he’d drop everything (his job) and go. They are now married with two small children.

Their whole marriage-and time we’ve known her- has been very difficult for the family. She is extremely sensitive to anything we say- but has no qualms about telling us we are horrible people- to her, to our children... .she changes her mind on a whim- for example was a vegetarian for months and belittles us about our decisions and cannot stand my father mentioning his love of hunting(her father hunts but that is okay I guess?) then one day, she takes a burger from the platter passsed around and when we are all surprised she acts like it’s not a big deal she just decided to not be anymore... .no mention of the fact we have been tip toeing around so to not upset her.

We have all felt like she does not hold our families in high regard or importance- yet hers is. She exhibits a great deal of pride/confidence and always being right, yet becomes a puddle in a heartbeat, she must be in control, she thrives on attention but if it’s not suited to her-the whole person is dismissed.

It has gone like this in different ways through the years as all of us have had children and times gone on. She is a big Instagram and is constantly posting pics of herself looking for praise or posting memes justifying herself and her decisions and putting down the way we have decided to parent. Very insensitive, also very passively aggressive purposeful. However if we post anything close to anything she disagrees with -even an article that doesn’t apply to them- it’s taken hugely seriously and we are reamed out- even if it’s nothing to do with them. I’ve tried to be understanding, to show love, but to give the wanted space they ask for(not coming to cousins bdays or holidays bc it’s “too hard”) but then we are accused of not caring and not being there. We’ve tried- and tried- lost sleep, agonized over what we are doing wrong, how to be just perfect so she’ll be happy and how we must be a horrible family that she feels this way towards us and how can we change... .

I’m coming to realize it’s not us. It’s them-her- my brother is just very blindly along for the ride.

They (her?) have systematically pushed each one of us siblings away- we were the last ones. Over -seriously stupid, delusional-things.

Because of all this they have decided they cannot celebrate the holidays with us- my parents are forced to treat it like a divorce situation and spend time with them and us separately. ( there are 4 of us siblings. This brother is the youngest- I am second in line).

The past year or two we have mailed each other gifts- this year has gotten worse and coupled with the knowledge I’m gaining about it all- we decided we did not want to give them anything this year. We have next to zero contact with them- they have pulled away- and pushed us away. I’m Sure whatever gift I do give won’t be correct bc we cannot do anything right. No matter how hard we try-it’s wrong, it’s twised into being our fault... I lose sleep... I can’t continue this cycle. I have a husband and 4  children to care for.

So now this morning- we get a family text from my brother asking what our kids favorite color is bc they’re getting Christmas gifts ready. I don’t know how to respond. My father and One of my siblings is acting like nothing is wrong, the other male sibling-who has the worst relationship with him- probably won’t respond... honestly I am not happy pretending it’s okay just waiting for the next blowup- I don’t want to participate... .is that okay? What do I say to him? Do I say anything? I feel like them deciding to not participate in whatever event they choose is acceptable but we just have to go along for the ride of whatever they want- like I should be jumping for joy they want to do gifts.Just looking for thoughts, I appreciate your time and energy! Sincerely-

[Browneyedgirl81]

  Hi everyone! I’m thankful to find this site as I’ve been a little lost and confused for years now.

My younger brother is married to someone who I believe has BPD. She herself is in counseling (for years), has been diagnosised with anxiety, manic depression... she was threatening suicide when dating- if my brother would did not come over - so he’d drop everything (his job) and go. They are now married with two small children.

Their whole marriage-and time we’ve known her- has been very difficult for the family. She is extremely sensitive to anything we say- but has no qualms about telling us we are horrible people- to her, to our children... .she changes her mind on a whim- for example was a vegetarian for months and belittles us about our decisions and cannot stand my father mentioning his love of hunting(her father hunts but that is okay I guess?) then one day, she takes a burger from the platter passsed around and when we are all surprised she acts like it’s not a big deal she just decided to not be anymore... .no mention of the fact we have been tip toeing around so to not upset her.

We have all felt like she does not hold our families in high regard or importance- yet hers is. She exhibits a great deal of pride/confidence and always being right, yet becomes a puddle in a heartbeat, she must be in control, she thrives on attention but if it’s not suited to her-the whole person is dismissed.

It has gone like this in different ways through the years as all of us have had children and times gone on. She is a big Instagram and is constantly posting pics of herself looking for praise or posting memes justifying herself and her decisions and putting down the way we have decided to parent. Very insensitive, also very passively aggressive purposeful. However if we post anything close to anything she disagrees with -even an article that doesn’t apply to them- it’s taken hugely seriously and we are reamed out- even if it’s nothing to do with them. I’ve tried to be understanding, to show love, but to give the wanted space they ask for(not coming to cousins bdays or holidays bc it’s “too hard”) but then we are accused of not caring and not being there. We’ve tried- and tried- lost sleep, agonized over what we are doing wrong, how to be just perfect so she’ll be happy and how we must be a horrible family that she feels this way towards us and how can we change... .

I’m coming to realize it’s not us. It’s them-her- my brother is just very blindly along for the ride.

They (her?) have systematically pushed each one of us siblings away- we were the last ones. Over -seriously stupid, delusional-things.

Because of all this they have decided they cannot celebrate the holidays with us- my parents are forced to treat it like a divorce situation and spend time with them and us separately. ( there are 4 of us siblings. This brother is the youngest- I am second in line).

The past year or two we have mailed each other gifts- this year has gotten worse and coupled with the knowledge I’m gaining about it all- we decided we did not want to give them anything this year. We have next to zero contact with them- they have pulled away- and pushed us away. I’m Sure whatever gift I do give won’t be correct bc we cannot do anything right. No matter how hard we try-it’s wrong, it’s twised into being our fault... I lose sleep... I can’t continue this cycle. I have a husband and 4  children to care for.

So now this morning- we get a family text from my brother asking what our kids favorite color is bc they’re getting Christmas gifts ready. I don’t know how to respond. My father and One of my siblings is acting like nothing is wrong, the other male sibling-who has the worst relationship with him- probably won’t respond... honestly I am not happy pretending it’s okay just waiting for the next blowup- I don’t want to participate... .is that okay? What do I say to him? Do I say anything? I feel like them deciding to not participate in whatever event they choose is acceptable but we just have to go along for the ride of whatever they want- like I should be jumping for joy they want to do gifts.Just looking for thoughts, I appreciate your time and energy! Sincerely-

[once removed]

hi Browneyedgirl81, and

this does sound difficult to navigate! a real damned if you do, damned if you dont situation. im glad you reached out.

its amazing how the holidays, which are supposed to be joyful, can become so stressful for us all.

honestly I am not happy pretending it’s okay just waiting for the next blowup- I don’t want to participate... .is that okay?

lets work through some options here... .what do you think would happen if you dont participate/dont respond?

[Harri]

Hi and welcome.  

I am sorry to hear about the issues with your SIL and younger brother.  It is very difficult when problems are caused in the family due to a dysfunctional relationship between 2 people.

We have people who post here due to problems with in-laws so you are not alone and are in the right place for support.  

They (her?) have systematically pushed each one of us siblings away- we were the last ones. Over -seriously stupid, delusional-things.

This unfortunately is common.  In an effort to keep things calm at home the non will often pull away from family and friends at the urging of the pwBPD (person with BPD).   It can be quite difficult to live with someone with BPD and unfortunately other people can get hurt in the process.  Holidays can be especially difficult.  

we decided we did not want to give them anything this year.

 Just be kind, and pleasant and focused on responding in ways that are consistent with your personal values.

Make sense?

[Browneyedgirl81]

Once removed and Harri-

Gosh I was so happy and thankful for a response so soon!   

I do not know what would happen if we did nothing. We’ve mailed gifts the past few years and never not done it- so we have fear of the unknown.

If we did mail them gifts- it would probably be no different than it is now. Which is nothing- our relationship is basically close to non existent. But it’d be pretend on our end- it is not a Yippee-skippee everything is fine and that’s what the message would be. It’s far from it. We’ve been pretending for years and I’m tired of the games.

I’m personally feeling hurt by their actions over the years and for me it’s come to a head this year.  I feel like I’ve given enough in the relationship and it’s been dumped down a black hole of nothingness with nothing coming back but vehemence. For me I’ve had to put up a wall to protect my heart from any more pain. This is truly a first for me. I’ve never felt like this toward anyone. But I have my own family to think about- they clearly do not have time for us- why am I giving anything more of myself when I just keep getting hurt?

A few things- They’ve not included themselves in birthday parties, they have chosen to not come to holiday get togetherness. Choosing to go to her sides family cabin every weekend, making it a priority over our children’s (and all siblings) birthdays. My older sister and her husband and 3 kids would come to visit for a week and tho BPD/they were a mile away they had no interest in coming to visit or even arranging meeting somewhere was very difficult to not at all. It comes off as the boy you have a crush on in school and just want to be around cuz he’s cute and cool- yet he doesn’t like you, you can’t change how they feel about you.

She began a hobby making pottery about a year ago. We all supported her and were enthusiastic for her and her “therapy”. I told her I’d love a coffee mug but they kept selling too quickly for me to snag one. The prices then were about $15/mug. Fast forward a few months she had another batch of mugs, and she messaged me a heads up they were available and to grab one quick (hers is an online FCFS sale). I looked, found one but the prices had more than doubled, plus shipping

[once removed]

so right now, the relationship kinda feels more trouble than its worth, right?

they want to exchange gifts... .exchanging gifts doesnt need to be less or more of a relationship, but it does avoid possibly greater conflict.

what do you think?

[Browneyedgirl81]

Harri-

I don’t know what my personal values are towards people who think that it’s okay to treat you so poorly. I’m a Christian but I have turned my cheek so many times - I’m far beyond the 70x7. Kind of been run over a few too many times- not to mention being twisted into the bad guy. Talk about a brain trip. And then watched the rest of the family suffer the same or worse.

It’s not okay to drag your brother through the mud just bc you parent differently. It’s not okay to take your kids and dangle them like carrots to get what you want or “need” from the grandparents.

I don’t believe you should condone these things and their actions yet I think that’s all we’ve been doing for the past 8 years bc of her issues. Brushing it aside and pretending it’s fine. Or patting her on the head and giving her all the sympathy- with no thanks ever- just “you weren’t there for us.”

And where has that gotten us? No where better. Things have only gotten worse. I really just want a wall up to separate us.

I know the good Christian thing would be to just mail stinking fake gifts. Maybe we will. I don’t WANT to though. My heart isn’t in it.

[Harri]

Hi.  I understand better than you may think.

Turn the other cheek does not mean allowing yourself to be used and treated like crap.  Nor does it mean ignoring bad behavior, at least not the way I look at it.  For me it means I will not respond in kind, with anger or meanness, but I will do what i think is right and what is in my heart to do.,  If that means no gifts, that is what it means.  If that means sending gifts and letting go of any expectation of thanks, that is what it means.

I do agree with once removed that sending gifts would be the least likely to lead to overt or greater conflict.  But that does not sound like something that sits well with you. 

I don’t believe you should condone these things and their actions yet I think that’s all we’ve been doing for the past 8 years bc of her issues. Brushing it aside and pretending it’s fine. Or patting her on the head and giving her all the sympathy- with no thanks ever- just “you weren’t there for us.”

That sort of thing is also known as walking on eggshells.  It is not healthy and often does indeed lead to an increase in behaviors.  It has taken 8 years to get to this point and it is going to take time to turn things around but it has happened before.  I am not saying she will not still be disordered but you can reach a place of greater peace within you.  Will that happen for this Christmas?  probably not as there is not enough time, but we can help.

We spend a lot of time talking about boundaries and learning ways to communicate in ways that allow you to protect yourself from further harm and also, maybe, help the situation with your SIL and brother.   Learning about the disorder can also help in terms of depersonalizing a lot of the behaviors you are on the receiving end of. 

Thoughts?

[Snoopy737]

Hi Browneyedgirl81

I guess I felt all the same feelings that you do, when I read your post.

I have a sister with BPD-traits too, and I have for years been trying to please her, bc I really wanted our relationship to be fine. I've consulted several doctors and therapist and help lines to get help on how I should react to her peculiar behaviour.

I really recognize the pattern with only her feelings and opinions are right and she really stresses it out, so we know she thinks we are wrong or sometimes the 13-year old her (She is 51) 'That's MY opinion, la la la la laaa, I don't care what you think'. And when she acts like that with a smirk, it really annoys me big time.

When my dad got into the ICU and we didn't know if he would live or die, she didn't come by at all (we're only two children/siblings), so I had to take care of my mom and dad and take over all the contact to the doctors and nurses. I heard nothing from her.

A month later, my dad did survive and came home, and my parents a wedding anniversary, but they were so shaken about my dads bad health that they didn't want to celebrate at all. Then one day my sister out of the blue called me, and said she prepared a surprise party for my parents and she wanted to invite me, too, bc she thought I would feel bad, if I wasn't invited.

I blew a fuse! I got so angry and asked her how in the world she could ignore my dad being hospitalized at the ICU and now called me to ask, if she should buy breakfast for me at the suprise party. She couldn't handle the question at all, so she acted like she didn't care at all about what I just said, and then she just said merrily 'Oh well, I just felt sad for you, if I didn't ask you, so bye, bye'. And then she just hung up.

I was furious! I had to go for a long bike ride and gave all I had for hours just to get a bit of my anger out. She totally ignores her family when the serious stuff happens and then she acts like 'the good child' bc "she would feel bad for me" if she didn't invite for a suprise party my parents didn't want!

Actually I think it reminds me a little of your episode. Everything going wrong. You walk on egg shelves and you're the only sibling who stayed in contact. You really suffer, and then out of the blue, you have to answer what your kids favourite colors are. It's completely crazy.

My advice - I'm just being totally honest - I would say it like I confronted my sister. Tell him or her the truth, that you think the relationship is really bad, and as long as it is like that, you couldn't care less if they gave you kids Christmas presents. I know it sounds a bit rough to tell the truth, but I have wasted several years thinking of alternative solutions, and no matter how many friends or therapists I asked, my sister always blamed me for what I did and say. I her eyes I just can't do anything right and will hurt her no matter what. And when you for years is treated like a bully, when you actually tried to do 'the right thing' and spent money on therapist, to hopefully get a better relationship, and it just crashed and burned every single time, I just don't care about her feelings anymore. Actually I might as well tell her, what I think about her decissions, rather than keeping my anger inside, bc then after months like that I get depressed or get anxiety attacks, bc I suppress my feelings.  So now I just tell her the thruth, and then one day she said that she didn't want any contact with me. And I guess that's the best way for, actually.

Therapists have also asked, what I could gain in life, if I took all the time I spent on my BPD-sister and spent then time and energy on myself instead. And for years I had excuses and said "Yeah, but I really, really, really want a good relationship to my sister" and then I kept on pleasing and kept on eating all her blame. But the last ½ year I actually tried to spend my time on positive activities instead of spending them on therapists discussing my sister, and I'm actually feeling the joy in life again, and I haven't felt the for almost 10 years. Instead of arranging a complicated Christmas with sister, we're celebrating without her - and she didn't wan't contact with me - so I actually feel good about it, because it's her decission. Now I'm a volounteer in the local swimming club, and we had the best Swimming Club Christmas Celebration today - Saturday. Happy teens on the swim teams and happy parents and Christmas joy. It is SO much better! And I don't understand, why I didn't do this 5 years ago. Why did I had to waste so many years on a woman (who happens to be my sisters) who's always unsatisfied and fiers?

No more. And of course, I'm sad from time to time over the broken relation, very sad indeed, bc I havn't any family left besides my mother (dad died later), but I have to compared it to a relationship with an always fierceful sister. Then I rather have it like I do now.

The only conclusion I have came to, with my therapists, is that a person with BPD-traits like my sister, can often only handle easy situations (like the surprise party, buying breakfast), and the hard jobs, like beeing there at the ICU, meetings with the doctors and nurses, the therapists guess she couldn't handle at all, and the just kind of shut down, ignored that it ever happened, because she couldn't handle it. I actually think the therapists are right. IDK you, but maybe your brothers wife can handle the color on kids toys, but nothing more complicated than that, like social relations. Maybe it's just as simple as that. But when she hurts you, I think you really should say it honestly and let her get mad about it (that you really don't care about the color on toys for Christmas, and Christmas presents in general, when your relation is as bad as it is).

So back to your first question. Is it O.K that you don't wanna participate?  Of Course it is O.K. The realtions has actually hurt you so much, that you lose sleep. You HAVE to take care of your own needs to get better. And actually, by time, I think you would feel really good about your gut feeling, that it is not fine to have a relation like that. And why exchanging Christmas presents, when the don't even can cope seeing you, and you have to put presents in the mail?

After my sister wrote me, that she wanted NO CONTACT with me, bc I told her what I honestly felt about her ignoring my dad at the ICU. She kepts sending me Birthday presents. It felt so wrong! Why would I like something you buy in a shop, when she didn't even wanted to see me? So I told her, that she should not send me birthday presents, when she didn't wanted to see me. And she got mad again and sent the shortest e-mail ever saying: "FINE!"

Again, she could handle sending me a presents. Also it pretty sure, she felt could about sending me a present, because she could then tell my mother how nice she had been to me. She's a lot like that. She sees herself like "The Good One" always "doing the right thing". So she could buy a present a send it, but she can't solve problems with other people. And it's the same at all her jobs.



All the best to you!  Snoopy

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Browneyedgirl81,

I want to join the others in welcoming you to our online family.  I'm really glad you came.

I'm sorry for all this turmoil and for the near breaking point things have reached. I grew up with an uBPDm who fought so much with my dad about his family that she finally drew the line and said no more contact with his family. I think my dad was heartbroken, but he went along with it to try and keep the peace.

Growing up in that environment and suddenly being cut off from extended family can be hard. I was 12 when the separation began. It was over 20 years before I had the courage to go and visit my extended family, all the while scared to death that my mom would find out, and she lived 1200 miles away!

I share that story with you because I wonder if it possible for you to send gifts to your nieces/nephews if you would want to? Maybe they would be able to receive them, and they would have a tiny connection with you, if even by a thread. They unfortunately, fall into the fray.

Regarding turning the other cheek, as a Christian I've assumed that there was an obligation to always turn the other cheek, but setting healthy boundaries as Harri suggested has great value. Did you know that even Jesus did not trust himself to men because he knew that man's heart could not be trusted? Jesus often set healthy boundaries by taking time to go and be with His Father, or to rest away from the crowds. He put a priority on doing what He saw his Father telling him to do. There was no obligation in him, just a willingness to do what he was to do. I have struggled with the same things you have, and I encourage you to ask Him what He wants you to do. He will be faithful to show you. 

 
Wools

[Browneyedgirl81]

You guys have no idea how thankful I am to find this group! My heart is bursting finally after being stuck for so long!

Thank you for all your responses. It’s so nice to know I’m not alone

[once removed]

whatd you decide to do?