BPD and Non-Monogamy

[Loving a BP]

Hello,

I could tell J was different right from the start. We started off as friends, but within a week or two, "sex happened." She had invited me over to her place to hang out. I was expecting to just talk and watch TV. A few minutes after being there, her clothes came off and she made it clear she wanted sex. I was pleasantly surprised, and not about to disappoint her.

That was almost three years ago. It has been a tumultuous relationship since then, but the last four months have been hell. There is a 22 year age difference between us. Early on, she labeled our relationship "friends with benefits." I thought I was fine with that.

She said, "I always knew there was something wrong with me." I endured passive-aggressive communication, projection, her finding my hot-buttons, and a feeling like she was trying to hide our relationship from the world. I started doing some Internet research and came across BPD. When I mentioned BPD to her, she was familiar with it, and said an ex-boyfriend had believed she had it.

About a year ago, she became depressed, and went to get help. She mentioned that she might have BPD, and they diagnosed her with it. I have read a lot about BPD, and although some of it seems to fit her, I'm left with this feeling like the diagnosis is not quite right.

At some point, quite awhile back, we had a fight and "broke up." I'm not sure how this could happen, considering we were always just "friends with benefits," but that's what she says. We continued to stay in contact and continued to have sex (still sounds like friends with benefits, huh?) But then something happened.

Up until this time, it had always been just me and her. Then she met a friend, and soon, she slept with him. He is gone, but now she declares herself to be non-monogamous, and has other lovers. This is where my real pain starts. Although she is still interested in sex with me, she wants to have sex with others of her choosing as well...and does. Of course, she has a right to her choice, and I have no right or power to stop her. But I'm finding it quite painful.

I feel like I should be able to overcome this. I should be okay with it. I should be able to find other lovers of my own. Non-monogamy and polyamory are a thing some people do, and are fine with it. In principal, I don't find anything wrong with it. But, so far, I haven't been able to find anyone else I want to have sex with. And every time I find out she has slept with someone else, it kills me.

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[itsmeSnap]

Hey there lovingaBPD, welcome to the boards 

I have read a lot about BPD, and although some of it seems to fit her, I'm left with this feeling like the diagnosis is not quite right.

Can you mention some reasons why it doesn't seem to fit?

I feel like I should be able to overcome this. I should be okay with it. I should be able to find other lovers of my own. Non-monogamy and polyamory are a thing some people do, and are fine with it. In principal, I don't find anything wrong with it. But, so far, I haven't been able to find anyone else I want to have sex with. And every time I find out she has slept with someone else, it kills me.

So many "shoulds", so many boxes . have you thought about what you really want? no expectations or anything, what do you feel would be an ideal relationship? Could it be that you want a monogamous relationship after all?

It's not easy admitting that you would rather have a commitment to her, maybe you haven't really thought about it.

Given your attraction to her (which I suspect is very intense, I know it was for me and my BPD ex) maybe the fwb label seemed "ok enough" so as to not push her away if you demanded exclusivity.

I don't think the the age difference is much of a reason for the fwb label. My ex also wanted to "just be friends" and then immediately started being flirty and sexy with me, with BPD its more about not feeling vulnerable, if you're just friends and not "serious" (or so they rationalize) they feel a "safe distance" and get comfortable, too much intimacy and they feel vulnerable, like you'd leave them and they'd be hurt, so they leave first (and possibly/likely have other lovers like in your case).

Can you mention what caused her depression? also, what was the fight about that you guys "broke up" over?

[Radcliff]

Let me join itsmeSnap in welcoming you.  I'm sorry for your pain, but it's also a good thing that you're recognizing a difference between what you thought would be OK, and what feels OK.  Pay close attention to those feelings.

RC

[zachira]

I am sorry you are hurting from the pain your girlfriend is causing you by having sex with others. In my experience from the people I have known who have an open marriage,friends with benefits, whatever name you want to give to a relationship in which one member is not monogamous, the person who is monogamous is very hurt by their partner having sex with others. I have heard that if both partners are not monogamous in a heterosexual relationship, that the relationship does not last. It sounds like having a partner who is not monogamous is possibly a deal breaker for you.

[Loving a BP]

Hey there lovingaBPD, welcome to the boards  
Can you mention some reasons why it doesn't seem to fit?

Yes. The primary one to me seems to be the lack of idealization early in the relationship. I feel like I was being held at a distance right from the start.

So many "shoulds", so many boxes  . have you thought about what you really want? no expectations or anything, what do you feel would be an ideal relationship? Could it be that you want a monogamous relationship after all?

Yes. I want (at least for right now) a monogamous relationship...with her. But that's where the problem seems to lie. She doesn't want to be in a monogamous relationship with me. I have tried to see if I could embrace a non-monogamous relationship with her, which is what she claims she wants. In theory, I could see it working, but in practice, I'm miserable. And that's where we are right now. I am distraught over it enough to have sought out counseling. My first session is in a couple of days.

It's not easy admitting that you would rather have a commitment to her, maybe you haven't really thought about it.
Given your attraction to her (which I suspect is very intense, I know it was for me and my BPD ex) maybe the fwb label seemed "ok enough" so as to not push her away if you demanded exclusivity.
I don't think the the age difference is much of a reason for the fwb label. My ex also wanted to "just be friends" and then immediately started being flirty and sexy with me, with BPD its more about not feeling vulnerable, if you're just friends and not "serious" (or so they rationalize) they feel a "safe distance" and get comfortable, too much intimacy and they feel vulnerable, like you'd leave them and they'd be hurt, so they leave first (and possibly/likely have other lovers like in your case).
Can you mention what caused her depression? also, what was the fight about that you guys "broke up" over?

I think, in general, her depression was due to feeling isolated. She seemed to complain about not having any friends at the time.

The fight we "broke up" over started because, in the middle of us getting along well she said, "I'm not in love with you." I felt it was an unnecessary thing to say, and didn't take it well. In my mind, if you love someone, you tell them. If you don't, you don't say anything. Anyway, that led to me kicking her out, but before she left, I changed my mind and apologized, but it was too late. She said she felt like she had to leave.

[Loving a BP]

Sorry for the response format. Still trying to figure out how to work this board.

[Radcliff]

No worries, your response format was fine.  It sounds like you are stuck in a tough spot -- really caring for her and wanting a relationship, but knowing that you want a monogamous relationship.  One of the things that can be the most painful is having expectations for how the other person should behave that aren't met.  She behaved very differently from the way you expected when she volunteered, "I don't love you."  It's totally natural to want to advocate for our needs, but we often do it in a reactive way, and with a pwBPD that fuels conflict.  When you're wanting more closeness than she does, that puts you in a vulnerable position.

There's not an easy answer here.  One thing that sometimes helps is to beef up our support networks and friendships outside the relationship.  It can counter the isolation we sometimes end up in while in a BPD relationship, it helps us feel less stressed and vulnerable, and in relaxing us can help the pwBPD feel less pressure, which makes them more likely to feel safe in the relationship.  How is your support system?  Do you have activities that you enjoy doing without her?  Friends or family you've got active and supportive relationships with?

RC

[itsmeSnap]

She doesn't want to be in a monogamous relationship with me. I have tried to see if I could embrace a non-monogamous relationship with her, which is what she claims she wants

Again, drawing from my experience with my BPD ex, I think the "wanting to have sex with others" is more about inner feelings of not being good enough and seeking validation, up to and including having sex with someone just to feel desirable.

Its difficult to wrap your head around that, I know it felt weird when I started realizing what was going on with my ex and why she brought those things up, they say they don't love you because they fear you'd leave them, and they have sex with others because they don't feel appreciated (even though they keep pushing you away!)

I think, in general, her depression was due to feeling isolated. She seemed to complain about not having any friends at the time.

So it seems I'm not too far off. people with BPD are notoriously hard to stay in relationships with because they tend to mess up by blowing things out of proportion or pushing the partner enough to do so themselves, sort of like your case.

Was it like this when you met? the isolation I mean, did she have any friends that you knew of? family was probably an issue (it is for many pwBPD), did she mention anything happening with them that might have made her feel extra disconnected?

I know it seems like I'm asking very unrelated things, I'm trying to figure out if she really does want an open relationship or if that's just how she rationalizes and finds it easier to keep a distance.

My ex said she told people she was tone deaf and that's why she didn't like music. Turns out she didn't like the distraction (she needs to be ultra focused, otherwise she feels not in control and panics) and it was easier to tell others so they wouldn't bother her about it instead of having to explain her true feelings. Do you think this is something she could do as well?

[Loving a BP]

How is your support system?  Do you have activities that you enjoy doing without her?  Friends or family you've got active and supportive relationships with?
RC

My finances are severely limited (whole other story), and my support system is minimal. I live in a rural area where the population is sparse, and there are few people out here that I am interested in associating with. I don't have any family that I'm close to. For awhile I was going to some Meetup.com activities in an effort to expand my social network. This worked somewhat, but I didn't forge any close relationships and the activities tended to require long drives. I may do more of this. My latest thing is to go sing karaoke. I used to sing in bands, and am finding karaoke to be fun lately.

[Loving a BP]

Again, drawing from my experience with my BPD ex, I think the "wanting to have sex with others" is more about inner feelings of not being good enough and seeking validation, up to and including having sex with someone just to feel desirable.

This is definitely part of it, but in talking with her, she seems to want to embrace this lifestyle. I think it may have to do with keeping an emotional distance from all partners, while still feeling somewhat intimate and desirable. I tend to think, rather than putting all her eggs in one basket (monogamy), she is trying to diversify, so if one relationship collapses, she has another.

Was it like this when you met? the isolation I mean, did she have any friends that you knew of?

She was living with her ex-boyfriend when I met her. She told me they were just platonic roommates. This turned out to be a lie. But the two of them had only recently moved to the state, and she mentioned her lack of friends in our first conversation.

family was probably an issue (it is for many pwBPD), did she mention anything happening with them that might have made her feel extra disconnected?

She grew up in an Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) environment. It was an abusive environment. Her father died when she was 10, at which time the abuse increased at the hands of her (probably BPD) mother. Her siblings are all substantially older, so she was left alone with her mother. Nowadays, the family is scattered across the states and other countries. She keeps loose ties with them, but she is now an atheist, while her mother is an IFB missionary, so open and honest conversation is limited.

I know it seems like I'm asking very unrelated things, I'm trying to figure out if she really does want an open relationship or if that's just how she rationalizes and finds it easier to keep a distance.

I appreciate any insight you can give me.

My ex said she told people she was tone deaf and that's why she didn't like music. Turns out she didn't like the distraction (she needs to be ultra focused, otherwise she feels not in control and panics) and it was easier to tell others so they wouldn't bother her about it instead of having to explain her true feelings. Do you think this is something she could do as well?

Yes. And I believe I may be getting a mix of this and truths. I think it is possible she convinces herself that her own lies (coping strategies) are truths.

[itsmeSnap]

she seems to want to embrace this lifestyle. I think it may have to do with keeping an emotional distance from all partners, while still feeling somewhat intimate and desirable

Makes perfect sense.

So with that in mind, it seems to me like you do want more intimacy than she can realistically provide right now.

She was living with her ex-boyfriend when I met her

Interestingly enough it seems that people with BPD don't want to lose the people they care about (case in point, why the ex-boyfriend and not just any other new person?), they just do. In seeking distance they push them away, only to realize its "too much distance" and try to lure you back in (there's a book about this dynamic called "I hate you don't leave me")

It sounds counterintuitive, but a lot of things with BPD are: Maybe giving her some distance is the way to go. And I'm not exactly talking about accepting an open relationship, but in general a "detached love" if it makes sense?

What do you feel is the way forward for you right now?

I also encourage you to read up on other people's threads and how they are managing their own situations, it often happens that our stories are remarkably similar even if the details are all over the place. Talk to them and ask, share your experiences. Multiple breakups and back togethers (my own rs included) are not uncommon. I think if you really want to pursue her further you'd want to know how to handle her outburst and your own reactions to them in the future, and how to try and lead the relationship to a place you can both be comfortable in.

[Loving a BP]

So with that in mind, it seems to me like you do want more intimacy than she can realistically provide right now.
Interestingly enough it seems that people with BPD don't want to lose the people they care about (case in point, why the ex-boyfriend and not just any other new person?), they just do.

That ex-boyfriend has ended up on her sh!t-list of sorts. She says it was a toxic relationship, and he was a drug addict (she met him in rehab). She says she doesn't want to see him again because he is a liar/people user. This could just be devaluation, but I tend to think there is some truth to it. Still, I notice she didn't let go of him until after she met me.

It sounds counterintuitive, but a lot of things with BPD are: Maybe giving her some distance is the way to go. And I'm not exactly talking about accepting an open relationship, but in general a "detached love" if it makes sense?

I'm not sure exactly what this means. It seems/feels like to me, if I could detach enough, I could accept an open relationship. I have also considered just being friends with her, but that doesn't seem like it would accomplish what I'm after either.

What do you feel is the way forward for you right now?

I'm not sure. I've tried walking away altogether, but that ended up feeling "wrong." I think I did this when I was thinking of her as a "normal" woman, in which case it probably would've been the right thing to do. I'm still keeping this option open. I think some strategy where I remain in contact is likely appropriate. She has recently re-entered therapy. Tomorrow is my first day with a therapist myself. I'm hoping to get some clarity then.

I also encourage you to read up on other people's threads and how they are managing their own situations, it often happens that our stories are remarkably similar even if the details are all over the place. Talk to them and ask, share your experiences. Multiple breakups and back togethers (my own rs included) are not uncommon. I think if you really want to pursue her further you'd want to know how to handle her outburst and your own reactions to them in the future, and how to try and lead the relationship to a place you can both be comfortable in.

She is a "quiet" pwBPD. This is something I have recently discovered by reading other's stories on here. This kind of makes the BPD diagnosis a bit more fitting. So, she is not prone to outbursts. She has "in bursts." She holds it in, takes it out on herself. It does come out in "discussions" (mostly her talking, me listening), but they are not directed attacks. They seem more like struggled attempts to be understood.

[Skip]

Got it!

[Radcliff]

I'm sorry if I missed it, but are you living together?  If not, how often do you see each other?

RC

[Loving a BP]

I'm sorry if I missed it, but are you living together?  If not, how often do you see each other?

RC

Nope, we don't live together. Generally, we see each other on the weekend...but now that she has another boyfriend, it's not every weekend. Lately, It has been two out of three weekends, but things are always changing, so who knows?

[Radcliff]

OK, given the ambiguity in the relationship, that's helpful that you have your own space to live in.  You said that you were about to start counseling.  What has your counselor said about the situation?

RC

[Loving a BP]

OK, given the ambiguity in the relationship, that's helpful that you have your own space to live in.  You said that you were about to start counseling.  What has your counselor said about the situation?

RC

She gave me a pamphlet on boundaries,  but I don't think that's an issue for me. So far, she has mostly just listened to me, which has been important to me.

[Radcliff]

Having someone to listen to us without judgement is huge.  Have you talked to your counselor about the non-monogamy issue?

You said your support network was minimal, but that you were singing karaoke and had had some success with meetups.  Any more activity there?

RC

[Loving a BP]

Having someone to listen to us without judgement is huge.  Have you talked to your counselor about the non-monogamy issue?

Yes. I think it's a foreign concept to her. I don't have a problem with it in theory. I just don't like the way I was drug into it. My introduction to it was J yelling over the phone at me, "I don't want to be in a monogamous relationship with you!" just before she went to bed with someone else.

You said your support network was minimal, but that you were singing karaoke and had had some success with meetups.  Any more activity there?

No. I stopped going to those meetups because they took too much time and money. I may start back up with this, but I have also thought, just going out and doing things by myself might be a good idea. And I haven't gone to karaoke for the last two weeks. Once because I was hanging out with J. Once because I just got myself together too late and was tired.

[Loving a BP]

I still wonder if she actually has BPD. The diagnosis seems close, but not quite. I seem to be enduring the devaluation, but I don't feel like I ever really experienced the idealization. Her latest therapist has not diagnosed her with BPD either (yet). Of course, I have been scouring the internet trying to find a diagnosis that seems to fit better. It may be Complex PTSD. That would fit with what I know about her childhood.

[Radcliff]

BPD can present in a variety of ways, there's no "cookie cutter" description.  Not all of us experience the idealization phase.  BPD also can follow childhood trauma and can co-exist with complex PTSD.  Pinning down an exact diagnosis is not critical.  Just focus on your situation, concentrate on things that are realistically within your control, and learn coping strategies.

How often do you spend time together?  What do you do when you spend time together?

RC

[Loving a BP]

How often do you spend time together?  What do you do when you spend time together?

RC

Lately, we get together on the weekend every two weeks. I spend a few days at her place. Most of the time we just stay in and watch videos. Sometimes we'll go to coffee, a park, dinner, the movies...stuff like that.