Video calling from kid's mom while at my house

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I want to throw this out there to see how other's feel about my uBPDex video calling (FaceTime) our kids while at my house. To give a little background, our three youngest stay with me full time since their mother doesn't have a suitable place to have them overnight. She is living with her bf and his stepdad in a two bedroom townhouse. Our two oldest (D15 and D17) live with me full time and do not spend the night with their mother(their choice). Our youngest three (D10, D8 and S8) are supposed to be with me 35% of the time per the divorce agreement. I told her that she is welcome to pick the youngest three up on her custodial days anytime she wants with reasonable notice but bring them back by 10pm now that they are out of school. She was doing this somewhat frequently for a couple of weeks and has slowed down to maybe an hour or so once or twice a week in the past two weeks. She doesn't have a job and lets her bf use her car to drive back and forth to work since he doesn't have his own car. She has also made allegations that he is mean and has little patience with our kids. He also has a felony record (2013) for possession of Schedule 2 narcotics. I am communicating with my L about all of this too.

Now for my question - How frequent would you say is fair for her to video call them in one day? Some days she doesn't call at all but she will call 4-5 times a day for several days. Some of the conversations last 20 minutes or more. I want to be fair to her and I also want our kids to maintain contact with their mom. I have to admit that I don't like hearing her voice and for her to have the ability to be "in" my house since it's a video call. She calls on my D10's iPod. My cell phone is a company phone and I don't have a landline in my house. All feedback and suggestions are welcome. I don't have a problem with setting boundaries with my ex but I don't want the kids to be limited in communicating with their mom if it's me that is being too restrictive.

[40days_in_desert]

I want to throw this out there to see how other's feel about my uBPDex video calling (FaceTime) our kids while at my house. To give a little background, our three youngest stay with me full time since their mother doesn't have a suitable place to have them overnight. She is living with her bf and his stepdad in a two bedroom townhouse. Our two oldest (D15 and D17) live with me full time and do not spend the night with their mother(their choice). Our youngest three (D10, D8 and S8) are supposed to be with me 35% of the time per the divorce agreement. I told her that she is welcome to pick the youngest three up on her custodial days anytime she wants with reasonable notice but bring them back by 10pm now that they are out of school. She was doing this somewhat frequently for a couple of weeks and has slowed down to maybe an hour or so once or twice a week in the past two weeks. She doesn't have a job and lets her bf use her car to drive back and forth to work since he doesn't have his own car. She has also made allegations that he is mean and has little patience with our kids. He also has a felony record (2013) for possession of Schedule 2 narcotics. I am communicating with my L about all of this too.

Now for my question - How frequent would you say is fair for her to video call them in one day? Some days she doesn't call at all but she will call 4-5 times a day for several days. Some of the conversations last 20 minutes or more. I want to be fair to her and I also want our kids to maintain contact with their mom. I have to admit that I don't like hearing her voice and for her to have the ability to be "in" my house since it's a video call. She calls on my D10's iPod. My cell phone is a company phone and I don't have a landline in my house. All feedback and suggestions are welcome. I don't have a problem with setting boundaries with my ex but I don't want the kids to be limited in communicating with their mom if it's me that is being too restrictive.

[kells76]

How frequent would you say is fair for her to video call them in one day?

I'm guessing your divorce decree doesn't say much?

Seems like once per day is fair.

Does she ever extend the call for over, say 45 min or so? Or is it usually under 30 min? 30 min seems reasonable, too, for one call once a day.

If it were just the frequency that were limited, would the length not be so much of an issue any more?

[prof]

I'm curious about the responses as I'm in a similar boat.  uBPDstbxw lives 7 hours away from S6 and I and hasn't seen him since February.

They go through hot and cold spells of video chatting (Facebook Messenger).  Sometimes they'll go for a week or more without chatting, and sometimes it seems like it's almost nonstop.

I usually initiate the calls.  She's complained about their irregularity, but when I've asked her to suggest a more regular schedule, she just changes the subject.

My house isn't huge, so it's hard to avoid hearing her voice, which can be difficult because of all the memories of our relationship.  Sometimes she tells him things that are less than positive about me.  For example, I decided to cancel a planned visitation next week, and the other day she told him that I was to blame and I did it because I don't like her.  Plus the video chats tie up my phone!

[worriedStepmom]

My kids don't like video chatting, so that isn't a problem in our house, but I know other parents who  don't allow it, or make the kid take the call on the front porch.  In those cases, the parent calling usually has a PD and their goal is not only to communicate with the kid(s) but also to invade the space or spy on the other parent.

If you want to stop the video chats, I would look at getting a cheap prepaid cell phone that the kids can use to talk to their mom.

We are about to limit SD12 to only getting two 30-min phone calls a week from her mom and no texts.  In addition, she can call her mom anytime *she* wants.  mom is disruptive, emotionally abusive if SD doesn't answer immediately, and inappropriate in the stuff she texts or says (as with prof's son, there are litanies of texts and calls to SD about how awful H and I are).

[40days_in_desert]

kells - The divorce decree doesn't say anything about communicating with the kids while at the other parent's house. She is supposed to have 65% custodial time with our three youngest but can't have them overnight due to not having a place for them to stay. She was staying with her mom and had to move out in March. Once per day would be fine at a half hour to 45 min with me. Especially if it were around the same time each day. With them not being able to see her I thought that extra time would be reasonable. Maybe twice a day? She was calling at or after bedtime during the school year which I already set that boundary. They are in bed and settled by 9pm every day during the school year. They didn't have a set bedtime with their mom. Thank you kells.

prof - I feel your pain. I'm detached from her at this point so hearing my ex's voice doesn't bother me. I was there at one time. I would have to leave the room when she video chatted back then. When I discover that they're on the phone with their mom now I leave the room to give privacy. She calls unannounced every time. I wish you the best moving forward prof.

worriedStepmom - I wouldn't doubt that she wants to invade or disrupt but I don't try to figure out her motives anymore. What does bother me is that she gets them worked up by crying sometimes and telling them, "I can see that you're upset because mommy isn't there" and "it's going to be ok...you'll be back with mommy soon". They see that she's upset and then they get upset. Five minutes after they hang up they're fine. Maybe the prepaid phone is something to look into. Thanks you for the feedback!

[livednlearned]

Do they ask to talk to her?

[40days_in_desert]

livednlearned - She video calls our D10's iPod. She doesn't ask me.

[livednlearned]

Do you think the kids would prefer to have a set time to talk to mom?

[40days_in_desert]

I feel children in general feel better with consistency so I would say yes. There is guilt placed on them by their mother so they don't want to upset her by not taking the calls. They don't seem to ever not want to talk to her. For example I picked them up after eating dinner with their mom at her bf's house and she literally took 10 minutes to say goodbye and she was on the verge of crying. She said, "it's ok. Mommy will have her own place soon and we can be together again" and "call me as soon as you get home". It was 9:30pm and was going to put them in be as soon as we got home. Two of the three were crying and 5 min after we got home they were perfectly fine and laughing like their normal selves. I told them that it was late and that they could each send their mom a goodnight text. All was good. They rarely ask to call unless they are asked to first by their mom. Not that they never ask but it is rare. Then again it was rare for them to call me when they stayed at their mom's before she had to move out of where she was living four months ago.

[livednlearned]

I don't have a problem with setting boundaries with my ex but I don't want the kids to be limited in communicating with their mom if it's me that is being too restrictive.

It doesn't sound like she's really communicating with them so much as using the calls to soothe herself with the kids providing the soothing. When she sees they feel guilty or sad, she feels soothed. Now they feel the way she feels and that validates her.

If you were to limit the communications to a set time and set day, how would the kids feel about that?

Would it be a challenge to enforce that limit?

[40days_in_desert]

livednlearned, I agree with you about her soothing herself.

The youngest three would probably feel guilt in the initial conversation. Maybe some anxiety over how they feel their mom would react or say in response. They would ask why they can't talk to their mom more than "x" times a day.
History would point towards it being challenging to enforce it. I feel that it would be best to communicate with their mom first so they won't feel burdened over it. If their mom would work with me and establish a scheduled time once a day, they would be ok with it. Their mom didn't call Thursday or Friday and they never asked to call her and were fine all day both days.
My ex has been responding different the past couple of weeks. Almost normal you could say. Her responses demonstrate emotional regulation and the responses brief and to the point. She's been going to group therapy. Not for BPD though. She has taken antidepressants and mood stabilizers for over twenty years. Our divorce was final a year ago after a long three year divorce battle. I agreed to pay for three months COBRA but after that she was on her own for healthcare. She went through the state to get her prescriptions but the requirement was for her to participate in group therapy once a week. I saw no change in her until the past couple of weeks. Her responses seem as if she's being coached by her therapist. I want to think that it will last but not thinking that it will. Maybe this is the right time to bring it up.

[Turkish]

Two of the three were crying and 5 min after we got home they were perfectly fine and laughing like their normal selves

Typical of kids, they adapt. I agree that once per day is reasonable.  livenandlearned also brings up a good point, suggesting what's best for the kids?

Daily calls aren't in our stipulation. The first year,  I intuited that it was resulting in more stress for then S4 (D1 was not quite 2), so I suggested to stop the nightly calls.  It seemed to help. Kid initiated calls wax and wane at both homes, though I've said more times than I can count that she's free to call them any time.  It only seems to be when she needs her anxiety soothed.  "I had a feeling that the kids weren't ok.  Can I talk to them?" Recently, it's been when she has verbally abused them and wants to apologize.  There's rarely a "hi, how are you doing?" call without an agenda. 

I also tried to encourage calls.  Then I stopped. Punt the ball into her court and leave it there. 

The Waifish ("rescue me!") emotions that she telegraphs to your children is certainly frustrating,  but it sounds like your stability helps them. 

[livednlearned]

The waif aspect is tough because kids are less likely to understand what's happening.

Still, I would insist on regularity. Part of the problem is that mom's impulses are dictating what happens in your home.

Do you think any of the kids can articulate that yes, it's tough when mom calls because they are expected to drop everything and end up feeling sad and guilty?

[40days_in_desert]

Turkish - You're probably on to something there regarding her anxiety level and how frequent that she calls vs not calling. She hasn't called them since last Thursday although she has seen them. I have stated that she is free to pick them up on her scheduled custodial time. Part of that reason is because I want them to see their mother and part because I don't want her to claim that I am restricting her from seeing our kids. Not one of our three youngest have asked to call their mother in the past four days. S8 did ask yesterday if he could see mom in which he did. They went to grandma's (ex's mother) to go swimming and mom came over for a couple of hours while they played in the pool. 
What's best for the kids? After thinking more about it the past few days, I would say that once per day is sufficient. That one call should be limited to a few minutes each to say goodnight and maybe allow them to share what they want about what they did that day. Calling several times per day for several days then nothing for several days probably confuses them and I'll try to.
Thank you for the feedback Turkish.

[40days_in_desert]

livednlearned - D10 would be able to articulate that and maybe D8 although they would be hesitant due to feeling like they are saying bad things about their mom. They know from experience that I don't turn and confront things with their mom that they tell me. If it's something that I feel that needs to be brought up with their mother, I use generalities. In this example I might say something like, "BPDxw, do you think that it might be somewhat stressful for D10/D8S8 by calling them when they're going to bed? Having to choose between going to bed at their scheduled time and taking your call? Would it be better for them to have a set time to call like 8:30pm which is after they get washed up and before they get in bed at 9?"
Her dictating what goes on in my home is a problem. I just want to make sure that I'm not letting my pride get in the way of doing what is right and fair for our kids. That's why this community has helped in the past.
Thank you livednlearned for the insight.