Our wedding anniversary is next week Part 3

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Mod Note:  Part 2 of this thread is located here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=340517.0;all

And on top of the no contact this weekend.  I have to say I'm starting to get very angry (I'm venting).

I know her better than she knows herself.  She must have found someone else to be chatting with and she feels guilty like she's cheating on them if she even speaks to me.  This is her past history with every relationship she's ever had.  Then she gets totally wrapped up in them and doesn't have time to "deal with this".  She probably figures if it goes on long enough I will just say f this and then she can blame it all on me, like she's trying to do anyway.  She's trying to vilify me in so many ways, she told one person she needed to leave because all I do is order Amazon packages and get them delivered "every single day".  I order dog food that gets delivered once a month and coffee every other month and every 6 months I order a filter for my fridge. THAT'S IT!  How can she tell people I have a "Amazon problem"...I was mortified when I heard that.  I know she needs to put this all on me and avoid the fact that she had any part in it, but W T HECK I don't drink, I don't do drugs, I don't spend money AT ALL on myself.  I pay ALL the bills on time.  I don't go out partying and I'm the bad guy in all of this HOW?  It's like she has nothing to make me look bad so she's making stuff up.

Side note, 6 years ago when I was going thru cancer treatment and she was having an affair (this was the one time she didn't move out) she said she was mad at me for having cancer at that time because it was like I did it on purpose so she couldn't leave because EVERYONE would think she was an A hole for leaving me right when I was diagnosed with cancer.  So she stayed, in the house...she rarely talked to me, I went to every single treatment ALONE..because she couldn't bring herself to "be there for" me, because she didn't feel like I loved her (same thing she's saying now).  

My daughter put it nicely the other day to someone..."Mom would move mountains for W if it was possible, she's done nothing but give her the world for 10 years and what has W ever done for mom, besides give us kids rides?"

It hurts A LOT.  Not sure what I'm still fighting for.

SH4

[Stillhopeful4]

Mod Note:  Part 2 of this thread is located here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=340517.0;all

And on top of the no contact this weekend.  I have to say I'm starting to get very angry (I'm venting).

I know her better than she knows herself.  She must have found someone else to be chatting with and she feels guilty like she's cheating on them if she even speaks to me.  This is her past history with every relationship she's ever had.  Then she gets totally wrapped up in them and doesn't have time to "deal with this".  She probably figures if it goes on long enough I will just say f this and then she can blame it all on me, like she's trying to do anyway.  She's trying to vilify me in so many ways, she told one person she needed to leave because all I do is order Amazon packages and get them delivered "every single day".  I order dog food that gets delivered once a month and coffee every other month and every 6 months I order a filter for my fridge. THAT'S IT!  How can she tell people I have a "Amazon problem"...I was mortified when I heard that.  I know she needs to put this all on me and avoid the fact that she had any part in it, but W T HECK I don't drink, I don't do drugs, I don't spend money AT ALL on myself.  I pay ALL the bills on time.  I don't go out partying and I'm the bad guy in all of this HOW?  It's like she has nothing to make me look bad so she's making stuff up.

Side note, 6 years ago when I was going thru cancer treatment and she was having an affair (this was the one time she didn't move out) she said she was mad at me for having cancer at that time because it was like I did it on purpose so she couldn't leave because EVERYONE would think she was an A hole for leaving me right when I was diagnosed with cancer.  So she stayed, in the house...she rarely talked to me, I went to every single treatment ALONE..because she couldn't bring herself to "be there for" me, because she didn't feel like I loved her (same thing she's saying now).  

My daughter put it nicely the other day to someone..."Mom would move mountains for W if it was possible, she's done nothing but give her the world for 10 years and what has W ever done for mom, besides give us kids rides?"

It hurts A LOT.  Not sure what I'm still fighting for.

SH4

[Enabler]

I very very very much share those sentiments...

But, again we come back to the point where I ask you, what has held you in the relationship for so long. You've had opportunities to say no, yet you haven't... what do you get out of that dynamic... it could be hope that one day things will be different, it could be a sense of moral superiority... You tell us.

Have you been taking a note of your thoughts when you're swinging emotionally? It's a good learning experience when you get back to center.

Enabler

[khibomsis]

SH4, what a horrible experience for you! Do you think at all you are maybe allowing yourself to feel emotions you did not allow yourself to feel in the middle of a life crisis? I can see you are so used to being strong, here are kids arms being broken and what not and yet the thing that really upsets you is a  year ago. Well done for getting yourself to appointments! And passing your one year tests

I'm with Enabler. In all their painfulness these are emotions, let them pass through you, observe and when you are feeling better you will analyse and understand. In the meantime you are coping excellently well. This too shall pass.

Yes, we are all curious beyond belief. What keeps you in the relationship dear? Because even if she is not there and not calling, this is now the focus of your obsession. You are renting her space in your head. Why?

I know the uncertainty is driving you crazy, am in a similar situation myself. Yet the reason why there is uncertainty is because you still dream of her coming back. Why? What's in it for you?
 

[Stillhopeful4]

what do you get out of that dynamic... it could be hope that one day things will be different, it could be a sense of moral superiority... You tell us.

Yup, I think it's the hope that one day things will be different, but I'm starting to openly admit what I have known deep down all along.  It will never change.  She will never change.  She can't go back to that person she was in the first 4-5 months.  This is how it is.  This is HER.  And yes, I resent the amount of time I have spent hoping to get back there, listening to her that it's ALL my fault we aren't there.  I will take some of the blame for reacting to her etc, but I'm not all to blame.

SH4

[Stillhopeful4]

SH4, what a horrible experience for you! Do you think at all you are maybe allowing yourself to feel emotions you did not allow yourself to feel in the middle of a life crisis?

Yes, and I've been looking back on a lot of things over the past 10 years.  I gave her so much and she never really could be there for me.  She could never even hug me.  I could never just cry and have her listen.  It's so sad that I have missed out on so many things over the past 10 years just wanting her to want me...and she didn't ...she couldn't.

Yet the reason why there is uncertainty is because you still dream of her coming back. Why? What's in it for you?

That's it exactly.  Nothing is in it for me.  I gave her a house.  I bought her a business.  I gave her a family.  I paid for everything so she could finish her degree, then she wanted another one, and another one.  I paid every bill and every meal for 7 years.  I let her parent my kids in ways I didn't agree with.  None of that was good enough for her. She did all of this to get a job and as soon as she did and said she would start helping to support our family...SHE LEFT!   All I wanted was for her to want me and to love me.  And what did she do, accuse me of not wanting her and loving her and she walked out and didn't look back and yes it Fing hurts.  I don't know how she can sleep at night.  When I think back of the things she's done and the things she's accused me of that I haven't done it makes me sick.  I'm very angry today.  I'm just venting.  I want to see how long this lasts, but I am starting to realize more and more that in order to save my dignity I am probably better off without her.

[Stillhopeful4]

There is another thing that's been eating at me for about 5 years.  My Godfather was on his death bed.  Literally they told us he was passing at any moment.  Mind you my Godfather was more like my father, we were that close.  He had no children and I was his his one and only.  So very very close.  He passed.  My W was there in the room with us when he passed.  The next day I noticed she posted a funny cat meme to her friend on social media literally 2 minutes after he died.  That hurt me so much.  Even more than her sleeping with her x.  I did mention it to her that I was hurt and she BLEW UP AT ME.  She's like why are you stalking my social media.  I wasn't I am friends with them both and it came up in my feed.  Then she started screaming... I was there in the room for you, it's never good enough... I was like HE WAS DYING...being in the room isn't good enough if YOU ARE ON YOUR PHONE posting memes to your BFF".  Needless to say she said she could never forgive me for saying that and "spying" on her.  She's always on her phone.  She keeps her phone on silent 24/7 and she has never answered her phone if it rings and I'm in the room.  She's always texting and posting silly things to all her BFF's am I/was I jealous, YES because she would never send cute funny things to me.  I would try and send her things and she would ignore them.  So many things...so many things...one time I suggested something for our business...she started screaming what a horrible idea it was and how stupid I was for suggesting it.  5 minutes later her BFF walks in (same one with the cat meme the day my Godfather passed)...BFF suggests the exact same thing I suggested 5 minutes earlier...my W...OMG that's SUCH A GREAT IDEA...I literally broke down in tears and walked out...she told BFF that I was jealous of her because she had better idea than me...I lost it...I was humiliated. 

[khibomsis]

Aw, SH4, it is a lot coming out. It is almost as if you stored emotions for 10 years and now they are all coming out at once. It's a lot.
Keep venting, we are here for you. Let it come. You will feel much better allowing yourself to feel what you have pushed away for so long. It is like a cleansing.

Don't know what to say except that you are going to be OK. The worst is behind you. The mere fact that you are allowing yourself to feel means that your subconscious has decided you are ready to deal. You are going to make it through this.
 
Maybe give some thought to what you do to keep yourself from being overwhelmed? I swear by meditation, took it up for pain management and now realize how it has saved my sanity, never fails to get those endorphins flowing as a counterpart to all the negative emotions wreaking havoc with my body and mind. Due to the car accident I was forced to exercise for half an hour every morning  just to be able to get out of bed and that too has proved a blessing in disguise. I am fitter and healthier than I have been in years.

If you could do so much to make your wife strong then just think once you put all that energy into yourself how strong you will be! What do you deserve right now? What do you need to let yourself feel loved? A walk, a massage, chocolate? Do something special for yourself today as a reward for making it so far.
Big 

[Enabler]

SH4, again, I can utterly empathise with you here and have had many comparable experiences. When you overlay the Karpman Triangle onto your recent findings, do you see anything?

What position can your W not deal with you being in?

Why do you think she can't tolerate you being in that position?

What does this tell you about what you need to do with regards to your support network?

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

Khibomsis,

I'm going to have to read up more on meditation.  I'm not sure what I need but I need something.

Enabler,

I don't really under the triangle.  I've seen it (in several forms).  If I had to guess she claims I am the persecutor all the time (but I'm really not that is her).  Then when I try to explain myself she always says "STOP PLAYING THE VICTIM" when I don't.  The strange thing about this is our T has called her out on it several times.  She will say look at her being so negative..and he will say no W she's not being negative just because her opinion differs from yours.  Then she will say look at her playing the victim, poor poor SH4 always the victim, and again he will call her out on being mean and tell her I'm not PLAYING the victim.  She sees what she sees.  She sees that that has PTSD that I caused her from being in a relationship.  The fact that she CLAIMS she has major anxiety when she goes out with her friends, even now when we aren't together, because her phone will blow up with me yelling at her.  T tried to explain to her she was part of the cause by not telling me she was going out with friends and just going out and not answering her phone etc.  She views it as she is an adult and she shouldn't have to report to anyone where she is going and who she is with.  He explained to her that is part of common courtesy in a marriage to tell your spouse these things she said this is a trust issue...and that she knows I can't trust her because if I did I wouldn't question where she was or who she was with.  (Mind you this is from the girl that's had 3 affairs in our 9 year marriage...and SHE can't TRUST ME?).

I don't feel like I'm swinging... I feel like I am definitely moving into the angry phase.  It's taking all I am to not text her or call her and tell her I AM DONE.  The only thing stopping me is I know that's what she wants.  She wants me to get so angry and fed  up that I will do that and take the pressure off of her...so she can tell everyone that I ended it and not her.  They will never know the behind the scenes of what she has done and how much she ignores me.

I'm just going to sit tight.  I'm angry but I am not going to do anything with it.

SH4

[Enabler]

In the context of the Karpman triangle, your W feels comfortable as the victim. It would appear she feels uncomfortable as you being the victim... or put a different way, "having emotional needs". There's not enough room for 2 people in the victim position so there becomes a bit of a tussle for position there... and you typically lose because you're not as apt at fighting for that position nor do you feel overly comfortable being in that position. You are typically a rescuer.

I've tried to come up with an analogy (boxing match where one competitor is oblivious to the fact he's boxing) many times about what it's like to be in the situations you described in your last post when someone behaves unreasonably yet can't see it for themselves. When they are called to be accountable for their unreasonable behaviour their reaction is one of surprise and hurt as though they've been punched out of the blue for no apparent reason. It's situations like this that have repeated themselves time and time and time again in my own relationship where one stands scratching ones head miffed as to how the situation evolved that way.

That said, and accepting there's been a lot of these situations in the past, I hope we can now see these situations for what they are. You know that the past has been filled with hurt on both sides and in many respects those situations are continuing to occur now... but you're changing the way you respond to those situations, or at least working out how to respond differently. You've mentioned above that you hoped that things would change, that she would go back to how she was, but also accept that this was unlikely... that said, I don't buy that the only reason you stayed in this was because of the honeymoon phase 5-6m in, I don't believe that was all the good that was in it for you.

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

When they are called to be accountable for their unreasonable behaviour their reaction is one of surprise and hurt as though they've been punched out of the blue for no apparent reason.

It's funny you compare it to boxing...LOL...if you only knew...LOL.  But what's funny too is that she describes it the same way that she feels like she got sucker punched out of the blue and that she "didn't do anything wrong".  Every single time I call her out on something.

I don't buy that the only reason you stayed in this was because of the honeymoon phase 5-6m in, I don't believe that was all the good that was in it for you.

I've always been trying to help her, rescue her.  Emotionally she was never able to give me much of anything.  She's always been not available.  At first it was work, then it was the new business, then it was she had to rush off and help some friend in crisis.  I remember one time we were leaving for a week away.  The night before she called and said she couldn't come to the airport with me because her friend needed her help painting something that night...a friend she hadn't talked to in years...I was like can't you say no that you are are leaving on a trip tomorrow and you need to stay here the night before...she was so angry at me she cancelled the trip because she claimed I was being selfish.  She does that a lot.  She cancels plans because something "better" comes along. or some "fight" happens and she can't be in the presence on me because it hurts her too much.

I have a lot of processing to do.  This is very hard accepting all that's happened...and it hurts.

Thank you all for your support.  Any thoughts on if I should acknowledge her birthday next week?  She's having a little family get together at her mom's on Sunday, she invited my daughter and grandbabies.  I haven't talked to my boys yet, so I'm not sure if she invited them.  I still haven't heard from her at all.

SH4

[Enabler]

Similarly to the wedding anniversary I think you acknowledge it with something personal, but not too heavy but this time you put it out there and don’t add any additional heavy if the opportunity arises.

So, she needs a lot of support and you provided that... that’s a lot about her. What did you get out of it. Did it make you feel more competent? I think this is an important point to clarify.

[Stillhopeful4]

Similarly to the wedding anniversary I think you acknowledge it with something personal, but not too heavy but this time you put it out there and don’t add any additional heavy if the opportunity arises.

Can you give me some examples?  I thought the rose wasn't something heavy last time, but clearly I was wrong.

So, she needs a lot of support and you provided that... that’s a lot about her. What did you get out of it. Did it make you feel more competent? I think this is an important point to clarify.

I'm not sure I understand.  What did I get out of what?  The relationship?

Right now my head is spinning.  I can't believe it's been over a week since I have heard from her.  No texts, no calls, no random pics of our dog.  It really hurts that she is capable of completely shutting down on me like this.  It feels horrible.  It hurts a lot.  I have a feeling she's distancing herself because she's seeing someone else and if she doesn't talk to me she won't have to tell me and she won't feel the guilt (this is what she has done in the past).  I just don't understand how she can completely walk  away from her entire family after 10 years.  It's not in my nature.  I have never turned my back on anyone even when they have done me wrong.  Yes, I know I could have reacted differently to her but did I do anything to deserve this treatment/abuse?

SH4

[Enabler]

My personal opinion is that the single rose was perfect. Even your first response was good. Your text later in the evening was where the wheels came off. A gift that says "I know you really well", nothing expensive. Remember, no grand gestures. I know my daughter loves her back being scratched, so one day I bought her a telescopic back scratcher... that kind of thing.

What I meant by my comment was that you were telling us a lot about what she got from the relationship, but didn't tell us why you kept doing those things and what you were getting out of it. I know you said you hoped you would get her to the point of flourishing, but I reckon you need to dig deeper than that. I for one get a lot of pleasure being a white knight, sometimes I feel like one of those awesome PA's where the boss starts to say something and the PA says "In the second drawer down on the left hand side, there's 2 in the pack so I need to order another pack soon." It reassured me I had my  together.

How much do you know about your W's activities? If you had to call it paranoia or knowledge, which one would you choose. Paranoia is a shocker of a trip... it can drive you totally bananas. I know, I've been there... arguably still am. What if she was seeing someone else? What would you do if you knew for sure?

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

My personal opinion is that the single rose was perfect. Even your first response was good. Your text later in the evening was where the wheels came off. A gift that says "I know you really well", nothing expensive. Remember, no grand gestures. I know my daughter loves her back being scratched, so one day I bought her a telescopic back scratcher... that kind of thing.

Got it.  I will try and figure out something small with a card just to acknowledge the day.

What I meant by my comment was that you were telling us a lot about what she got from the relationship, but didn't tell us why you kept doing those things and what you were getting out of it. I know you said you hoped you would get her to the point of flourishing, but I reckon you need to dig deeper than that. I for one get a lot of pleasure being a white knight, sometimes I feel like one of those awesome PA's where the boss starts to say something and the PA says "In the second drawer down on the left hand side, there's 2 in the pack so I need to order another pack soon." It reassured me I had my  together.

Yes me, white knight.  I've always tried to rescue her.  I bought her the business of "her dreams" so she could quit her job and just do that.  I married her so she could quit her job and have health insurance (she has a past history of cancer too).  She kept our marriage a secret for 4 months and wouldn't even let me tell the kids.  She didn't move in with me until 4 months after we were married...the day we opened the business.  All I ever wanted was for her to love me.  I never wanted anything from her other than that.

How much do you know about your W's activities? If you had to call it paranoia or knowledge, which one would you choose. Paranoia is a shocker of a trip... it can drive you totally bananas. I know, I've been there... arguably still am. What if she was seeing someone else? What would you do if you knew for sure?

What I have is knowledge and not paranoia.  If I knew for sure, which I'm 99% sure, I would do exactly what I am doing...nothing.  Because I know her...she will be happy and giddy for 2 months and then she will be filled with regret and sadness that SHE IS THAT person she claims she isn't.  And then, and only then will she run back to me for me to pick up the pieces.  I just don't know if I can do that this time, as much as I want to I think I need to accept that this is who she is and will always be and at the end of the day when I need her the most I will know she won't be there for me.  It's not that she can't give it to me, she can't give it anyone.  She has done this with every relationship she's ever had.

SH4

[Enabler]

How did she convince you that was a good idea... the marriage for health insurance and not moving in for 4m?

I mentioned if a few months ago, but I do think it's important to have a default plan in place to guild you if your crystal ball turns out to be correct. What are you going to do differently this time?

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

How did she convince you that was a good idea... the marriage for health insurance and not moving in for 4m?

It was my idea to get married because she was so depressed in her job and need to get out.  She was embarrassed that we got married for that reason and didn't want anyone to know.  Because she wouldn't even let me tell people we were dating for MONTHS because she didn't want anyone to think badly of her.  I didn't realize it was all going to be secrets and lies until after.  She just told me...we can't tell anyone for awhile and I'm not moving  in yet.  I didn't have a choice.  She is very big on keeping everything a secret in her life and only lets certain people know certain pieces for FEAR of being judged.

I mentioned if a few months ago, but I do think it's important to have a default plan in place to guild you if your crystal ball turns out to be correct. What are you going to do differently this time?

I really don't have a clue what I am going to do.  I think one thing and then if/when she comes back with all that pain in her beautiful blue eyes...I just want to take it all away.  I need to learn that I can't.  Only she can heal that pain.  I need to focus on my own pain and heal that and HOPEFULLY I will get so healed I won't want to put myself through this again...and again...and again...

SH4

[Enabler]

It seems you are still thinking of this situation in a very binary way. What if there was an intermediate position where you didn't have to be all in or all out. What if there was a position where you controlled what you allowed back into you and your families life and what you didn't allow. It sounds a bit controlling yes, and some might (your W) might argue that she has every right to return to the relationship and you should either accept her, or get a divorce... but I'm not sure you have to think of things like that. It's far better to decide who you're going to be, and what you're going to tolerate, and let the chips lay where they fall. These could be terms that she is not willing to accept nor have any realistic chance of adhering to.

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

I don't think I could be in a relationship and not be "all in".  I'm way too forgiving.

Don't forget, she blames all of this on me and only sees me as the problem.  So in her eyes if she comes back I have to change and I have to give her more than I did before.  I'm not sure how I can give anymore and still not get anything, emotionally, in return and hold on to the fact that she's just going to leave again at some point.

I'm struggling with a lot right now.  Things with my kids, my mom, one of my dogs (not the one she has) and other family members.  It just feels like EVERYTHING is crashing down around me and I don't want to do any of this anymore.

SH4

[Enabler]

I hear you on all in... maybe you could be all in for the marriage... that's different from being all in for her.

It being all your fault is not unusual and I am sure she will have people reinforcing this for her... but that kind of attitude is not going to help her much if she wants to reengage in a marriage that you're defending.

For now prioritise the things that you can influence. The true victims that require your SUPPORT , not rescue.

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

For now prioritise the things that you can influence. The true victims that require your SUPPORT , not rescue.

So basically I should worry about my dog and only my dog.  Got it.  I'll try!  First round playoff game tonight for the youngest, game is about 1.5 hours away...I'm going to do everything I can to just enjoy it and not think of the rest of the poop falling apart in my life at the moment.

SH4

[khibomsis]

hey SH4, still here. Internet was down in my neck of the woods but now back up:) I think the plan for her birthday is awesome!

Have you ever thought about co-dependency? Because you can't change her, but you can change your response to her behaviour. And that has to start with change within yourself. If you both are going to behave in exactly the same way as you did before then getting back together would be pointless because undoubtedly the marriage will end up exactly where it is now.
In the meantime, don't sit at home. Go out, see friends, have fun with family, pursue that hobby you never really had time for because marriage was consuming you.  I am not saying dating or anything like that, only enjoy the space you are given to build the kind of life you always wanted to have. Don't give away the power to be your best self  

[Stillhopeful4]

Just got word she reached out to my daughter today:  Please let me know  your thoughts.

This was over text...she said she needed something that was coming in the mail to my house for her car sticker but didn't want to reach out to me because she's very hurt from our last interaction and she's very angry and that she doesn't want to reach out for the mail and mislead me that she wants to see me.  Mind you I RARELY get the mail so she could drive by anytime and check the mailbox when she knows I'm not home.  Anyway she went on to tell my daughter that she's not sure what kind of relationship she can ever have with me at this point if any.  Then she asked my daughter if she thought it would be weird to reach out about the mail and my daughter replied with I'm sure mom would love to hear from you.

Do you think she was:

A. testing the waters with my daughter to see if I am mad at her and would be receptive to her reaching out.
B. Planting the seed with my daughter that she can't have a relationship with me anymore.


I mean come on...she could send a cold text...I'm expecting my registration sticker in the mail when you get it can you drop at my mom's.  Why does she have to text my daughter and ask what she thinks about contacting me?

Thoughts?  AND what should I do if she reaches out.  Right now my plan is If she texts and says can I come by and pick up my mail I will say I can drop it off to your mom or I can tell her I will leave it in the dairy box on my front porch and she can pick it up anytime.  I know she wants to confront me and get angry and discuss divorce.  I'm not willing to have that conversation yet.

SH4

[Enabler]

If she reaches out, behave as if your daughter just mentioned in passing. Behave in a normal way and do t be dragged into any games.

Have you heard of triangulation? There’s helpful triangulation such as the use of a couples counsellor, and there is unhelpful triangulation. Unhelpful triangulation is often an attempt to get someone to pick sides, to gain some kind of information or to gang up on the other person (you). Some couples triangulate the children especially when the children oscillate between the separated couple.

I wouldn’t like to suspect what your W’s motivations are. Maybe suggest to your D that she takes herself out the triangle by politely suggesting she talk directly to you about these things.

Your W is angry with you. It’s common in all of us to want to tell other people and get them onside. You tell us your version of events here, hopefully we take a reasonable neutral view... i do try but I guess I’m riddled with bias.

Enabler

[Stillhopeful4]

I just talked to my daughter again.  She said she started the conversation with she got good news from the vet about our dog and asked my daughter if she thinks I would want to know.  My daughter said when she read it, she had to read it again and she laughed, like is she really asking me if mom would want to know about DOG who she loves so much, of course she would want to know.  My daughter replied that yes mom would want to know.  

I don't understand.  We had that big blow up a few weeks ago, but then that Saturday she took my dog with the OTHER DOG to the vet and when she came back she let DOG stay and was texting all day on Sunday and making jokes etc and then asked me to drop him and I did then I called her about the food and we had that nice 30 minute conversation about her daughter etc.  Then was two days later with the Anniversary and the rose and a few texts.

I think this is her feeling guilty about things she's doing and she needs to put an end to us and doesn't know how to approach it and using the dog and the mail is just an excuse to have a blow up with me because she knows I don't want a divorce.

[Stillhopeful4]

Have you heard of triangulation?

I wouldn’t like to suspect what your W’s motivations are. Maybe suggest to your D that she takes herself out the triangle by politely suggesting she talk directly to you about these things.

Yes, I have heard of it.  I've lived it.  My W has always done it with me and the kids.  And being able to look back now, with more clarity, it happened so very frequently.  If she was mad at one son, she would get closer to me, if she was mad at me she would dote on one of the kids.  She did it with the dogs, she always said DOG was her favorite and that she never wanted the others, actually when we got dog 2 she wouldn't pet her or interact with her for almost a year and 7 years later W will still say she never wanted her.  So sad.

I have asked my D to try and stay out of it and that if W reaches out to her to not give her any info and ask W to contact me herself while still being polite and for D to maintain a relationship with W.  I just had this conversation with D last week on our anniversary when W reached out to her to "check" on me to see how I was doing.  I just can't married 10 years to someone and you can't send a text to them to check on them but you can text their kid to see how she is doing.

Clearly my W is in a very bad place.  I wish I could help her, but I am aware that I can't.

SH4

[khibomsis]

Well done, SH4! You stayed firm in not contacting her and now she is missing you! Well, trying to communicate through your children which is the BPD version of "I miss you" 

I have to admit, when I heard about your D being invited, I also suspected a bit of triangle drama, I mean how weird is that to invite your children and not you? Because it makes it really hard for you to parent, and I am glad you are being so clear with D. Maybe sit down and have a conversation with the boys also? Because it is good to have a strategy as a family.  

At the same time I think doing what you can to reduce the conflict is helpful. It is good that you foresee the next move and can prepare for it. But she is always going to be in your life, dogs, kids, mail, etc, and I think she herself is beginning to realize  there is a need for communication. Stay firm in your boundaries ("you want to communicate, you have to talk to me" and if you can get the kids to help you out so much the better.  While it is hard as you process the anger of the last ten years, still it takes two to fight. She cannot fight with you if you respond peacefully.

You have been to hell and back observing these big anniversaries, 10th wedding, a year after your medical crisis, and now her birthday. Think of how much harder it must be for a BPD, their emotional intensity is very high volume. And it is a lot, fear of losing you must have been uppermost in her mind last year and in some ways that is what she could be running away from. In staying away from you she also leaves all these complex emotions behind.

So try to be compassionate in your firmness. Set your boundaries, patrol them, and use every opportunity to widen the pool of conflict-free interaction.  

[once removed]

Anyway she went on to tell my daughter that she's not sure what kind of relationship she can ever have with me at this point if any.

SH4,

in the same way that you are considering each contact, each interaction, and gauging the possibilities, so is she.

its an awkward, and hard situation.

she doesnt want to send the wrong signals. at the same time, she still cares. you dont want to send the wrong signals. at the same time, you still care.

neither of you are really reading the other very well. understandable, at the moment.

for example, you think she wants you to chase her. so you do. she put the kabosh on it because she doesnt want to give you false hope; but she still cares. you interpret her reaction and the pulling back as she must be dating someone else. do you really believe this (it would really change things) or is it a way of coping?

[Harri]

This thread reached the post limit and has been locked and split.  Part 4 is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=340759.msg13085967#msg13085967

Thank you.