I want to talk about FOG- Fear, Obligation and Guilt

[jaded7]

Ozzie pointed this out to me in the first part of my thread "Or leave...don't know what to do", so I was just rereading it with more clear mind right now and wanted to share and see your experiences too. Writing and reading is helping me with now almost three weeks of no contact, and massive amounts of F and G.

Sufferers are blamers and guilters who expect us to figure out what they want and ensure that they get it. Sufferers take the position that if they feel miserable, sick, unhappy, or are just plain unlucky, we are expected to help them – even if they haven’t told us how. They let us know, in no uncertain terms, that if we don’t help, they will suffer, and it will be our fault. Sufferers are pre-occupied with how awful they feel, and often they interpret our inability to read their minds as proof that we don’t care enough about them.

This was my experience to a T with my gf. It was bewildering at first. Some times I remember

-she was home after dental surgery (I picked her up from the office, took her home, stopped to get medicines, took a 1.5 hour bus ride home) then immediately began checking in with her, many times a day by text and phone and she always said she didn't need anything. So, then I started making suggestions for what she might need, coming up with some creative ideas including driving her to her store, giving her a back rub, holding her.  She seemed to become distant and angry, then stopped responding. When I finally found out what was wrong it was "my friends don't have to ask, they just know what to do" and "oh thanks, great...like I really need a ride to the grocery store, how nice"
-Exact same situation when she was home with a cold, quit responding when I called and texted to see how she was, and was mad at me. I even sent a text letting her know that I love her very much and am just wanting to make sure she is ok, I'm not upset your not answering me...she then was mad at me for 3 days for saying "how PLEASE READty it is for Jaded to let me know everything is a-ok with him while I'm sick at home and with a sick teenager"
-and now with this eye surgery thing when she talked about it October and suggested that she'd probably do it in early January but had no date and time, then completely ditched me over Christmas, ceasing communication and leaving town without a word and then not responding to a text I sent, when she finally communicated on the 31st and I said I was not really up for talking that night, then 3 weeks later I get an angry, eviscerating email telling me I wasn't there for her, I never show up for her and her friends did.

Of course I was filled with guilt, and still am. It's so painful, because of course I would want to be there for the woman I love, but these things are like tests that you WILL fail and then they'll be mad at you and tell you how awful you are.

This seems to be very common with bpd or narcissistic, and it's very confusing. I'm still trying to work through the guilt of the eye surgery, even though she had every opportunity to let me know between October and January, and actually ditched me completely in the weeks before.

Have any of you seen this type of behavior as well? How have you dealt with the guilt?

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[Dungahass]

My friend, I know how that feels. It's like, they light a fire, walk away and leave you with the burning wreck, and you end up scrambling to figure out what YOU did wrong to cause them to set the fire. Even if its a situation in which normally, if it was described to you by someone else going through it and you'd tell them they're not at fault, you're still unable to integrate that into your own feelings.

A friend of mine who has experience with BPD in her family said of this very topic, "know your truth". By that, she meant, the pwBPD can try to put the blame on you, with unrealistic and completely lopsided accounts of what actually happened, but that deep down, try your hardest to be confident that you know the truth. I don't remember the full details of your eye surgery situation, but I do remember reading about it, and I can tell you that from where I'm standing, you did not deserve to be blamed and treated the way you were. Same with the dental surgery. You filled your partner role admirably, with love and support, and even if there are things you feel like you could have done better, it doesn't justify her telling you that "others know what she needs without her having to ask". Know your truth. If others really knew what she needs without her asking, she'd be in a long-lasting relationship already, and BPD would not be an issue for her. It's all an unfair blame game. It may not be deliberate on her side because of the disorder, but it certainly isn't your fault either.

Here are a couple similar examples of this that I went through:
1) Her dad died a year ago. We live in different cities. It was hard for me to be there for her because of the distance, but I did what I could, like sending her mom flowers, checking in with the ex multiple times a day, re-arranging my incredibly hectic work schedule so I could be present for the funeral, etc. When I went down there, a series of events got me painted black. During that time, she told me that I had done NOTHING to support her during her grieving period, and that strangers at work were being more supportive by asking how she's doing and giving her sympathy cards. Sure I could have done more to handle the situation, but I was really trying to give it my all and it was all discarded.
2) One morning, I was at her place, and she had to run off to work urgently. She asked me to watch her 3 year old daughter for a couple hours at home. It was my first time left alone with a small child, so I was excited but also very anxious. I managed to get the little munchkin bathed, dressed, fed, and drove her to school. Later that day, I told my ex how that morning went, how I was anxious but also happy I managed to do it. Her eventual answer? "Yeah, you think that stuff is a big deal? You think you did this huge favor for me because you took care of my daughter while I was away? That stuff is meaningless. You don't even know how to help me. That's not what I need". I was shocked and destroyed. Not once I had bragged about taking care of her daughter or asked to be recognized for it. Not even close. But she thought I did, and lashed out at me. Which would have been an easier pill to swallow had she also being thankful for helping. But nada.
3) In December, my work brought me to her city for a week. We had spoken about it a couple weeks before, and she had said she wants us to take the little one to the zoo together, as we always wanted to do. I was super excited. This is despite us not being in a relationship. When I got there, I found out she made plans to go to the zoo with someone else who had suggested it to her. When I told her it hurt my feelings, she said I ruined everything and any good feelings she had re-developed about me. She didn't give a crap that I was actually hurt by it, it was all about her, her, her, and the stress I was causing her by sharing my feelings. She was cold and physically distant with me for three days after that, and I felt and still somewhat feel guilty for opening my mouth, even though deep down I think I know I had a right to be hurt.

Item 1) made me feel guilty as hell "for not being there for her when she needed me", and item 2) I just didn't understand but it still made me wonder what I had done wrong, and if I should have done a better job in taking care of her daughter. And item 3) just plain hurt badly. All nonsense, of course, but it all shattered me and made me feel like there is nothing I can do to please her. Even flying halfway across the continent and spending thousands of dollars to be with her went without recognition.

[jaded7]

My friend, I know how that feels. It's like, they light a fire, walk away and leave you with the burning wreck, and you end up scrambling to figure out what YOU did wrong to cause them to set the fire. Even if its a situation in which normally, if it was described to you by someone else going through it and you'd tell them they're not at fault, you're still unable to integrate that into your own feelings.

A friend of mine who has experience with BPD in her family said of this very topic, "know your truth". By that, she meant, the pwBPD can try to put the blame on you, with unrealistic and completely lopsided accounts of what actually happened, but that deep down, try your hardest to be confident that you know the truth. I don't remember the full details of your eye surgery situation, but I do remember reading about it, and I can tell you that from where I'm standing, you did not deserve to be blamed and treated the way you were. Same with the dental surgery. You filled your partner role admirably, with love and support, and even if there are things you feel like you could have done better, it doesn't justify her telling you that "others know what she needs without her having to ask". Know your truth. If others really knew what she needs without her asking, she'd be in a long-lasting relationship already, and BPD would not be an issue for her. It's all an unfair blame game. It may not be deliberate on her side because of the disorder, but it certainly isn't your fault either.

Here are a couple similar examples of this that I went through:
1) Her dad died a year ago. We live in different cities. It was hard for me to be there for her because of the distance, but I did what I could, like sending her mom flowers, checking in with the ex multiple times a day, re-arranging my incredibly hectic work schedule so I could be present for the funeral, etc. When I went down there, a series of events got me painted black. During that time, she told me that I had done NOTHING to support her during her grieving period, and that strangers at work were being more supportive by asking how she's doing and giving her sympathy cards. Sure I could have done more to handle the situation, but I was really trying to give it my all and it was all discarded.
2) One morning, I was at her place, and she had to run off to work urgently. She asked me to watch her 3 year old daughter for a couple hours at home. It was my first time left alone with a small child, so I was excited but also very anxious. I managed to get the little munchkin bathed, dressed, fed, and drove her to school. Later that day, I told my ex how that morning went, how I was anxious but also happy I managed to do it. Her eventual answer? "Yeah, you think that stuff is a big deal? You think you did this huge favor for me because you took care of my daughter while I was away? That stuff is meaningless. You don't even know how to help me. That's not what I need". I was shocked and destroyed. Not once I had bragged about taking care of her daughter or asked to be recognized for it. Not even close. But she thought I did, and lashed out at me. Which would have been an easier pill to swallow had she also being thankful for helping. But nada.
3) In December, my work brought me to her city for a week. We had spoken about it a couple weeks before, and she had said she wants us to take the little one to the zoo together, as we always wanted to do. I was super excited. This is despite us not being in a relationship. When I got there, I found out she made plans to go to the zoo with someone else who had suggested it to her. When I told her it hurt my feelings, she said I ruined everything and any good feelings she had re-developed about me. She didn't give a crap that I was actually hurt by it, it was all about her, her, her, and the stress I was causing her by sharing my feelings. She was cold and physically distant with me for three days after that, and I felt and still somewhat feel guilty for opening my mouth, even though deep down I think I know I had a right to be hurt.

Item 1) made me feel guilty as hell "for not being there for her when she needed me", and item 2) I just didn't understand but it still made me wonder what I had done wrong, and if I should have done a better job in taking care of her daughter. And item 3) just plain hurt badly. All nonsense, of course, but it all shattered me and made me feel like there is nothing I can do to please her. Even flying halfway across the continent and spending thousands of dollars to be with her went without recognition.

Yes and yes on #1 and #2, almost exact quotes from mine. She most recently raged at me almost 3 weeks ago saying "I don't show up for her" when, in fact, I do anything I can at any moment and will drop everything to be there for her, and have. When in fact I can prove that she doesn't show up for me at all, ever and even ghosts me. Has never come to a single event at my business ever, in 2 years. Refuses when I ask her. I've sent food to her and her son multiple times in the last few months when they were stressed or super busy, went to all his 8th grade graduation events, went to her friends wedding party, volunteered for her sons theater group, built her son's basketball hoop Thanksgiving week (on 45 minutes notice), sent her flowers when she was sick and ghosting me (and mad again), etc etc

"Yeah, you think that stuff is a big deal? You think you did this huge favor for me because you took care of my daughter while I was away? That stuff is meaningless. You don't even know how to help me. That's not what I need

I feel like we are dealing with the same exact person here. This is so eerie.

To do something other than vent, I'd say this is massively demoralizing and hurtful, and like you said, if you say it's hurtful you get attacked. This kind of stuff just doesn't align with my way of thinking. Check out my posts on the birthday issue. Baffling.

[Dungahass]

Here is another thing that I look back on with incredible amounts of guilt and self blame. She started pursuing me for rekindling the relationship starting back in August, for a total of 3 months. I still had all this resentment from the months prior and the way she treated me during the initial months of the break up. This is before I learned about BPD. Even when she was chasing me, there were things she was doing that were really not sitting well with me, and I felt she didn't care about anything I wanted, or my feelings. So I pushed back, said I'm not ready yet to get back together, and that I need space from her. That got me painted black, and I then learned about BPD. I still feel an almost unbearable amount of guilt and regret for not taking her back right when she was back all in, since I now desperately want to get back with her. I beat myself up for not giving her the greenlight, and she has basically told me her 180 is pretty much my fault, and that I ruined things. No lie, that's how I've felt. But sometimes, I do remember, there was a reason I was reluctant at the time. I was not crazy or stupid, and I need to pay more attention to that, even though it all seems FOGgy  right now.

It seems like you put in a lot of effort into your relationship, as a super caring guy. More than she did, which you seem to agree with. I feel like I have done the same in my relationship. I once told my ex, "you know I would do literally anything for you." Her response was, "I know you think that, but its not true".

Do you find it helpful to write this stuff down somewhere you can see everyday, to help with the FOG? Many people, including my T, recommend doing that. I haven't done that yet, but I think I will. I know just writing out these posts is helpful on its own. Sometimes I find that remembering these things and retelling others reminds me I'm not crazy. Is talking about it having a similar effect for you?

[jaded7]

I still had all this resentment from the months prior and the way she treated me during the initial months of the break up.

I totally get this. Thus my occasionally delays of one day in responding to her after what she calls a 'fight', what I call verbal abuse and me defending myself.

and I felt she didn't care about anything I wanted, or my feelings. So I pushed back, said I'm not ready yet to get back together, and that I need space from her.

I absolutely get this feeling that my needs, feelings simply don't matter.

I still feel an almost unbearable amount of guilt and regret for not taking her back right when she was back all in, since I now desperately want to get back with her.

I also very much understand this, and have been feeling this for the last few weeks as I have not contacted her, I'm so torn. I don't feel I deserve to be abandoned without any word at Christmas and verbally abused.

I do remember, there was a reason I was reluctant at the time. I was not crazy or stupid, and I need to pay more attention to that, even though it all seems FOGgy  right now.

This is me right now.

"you know I would do literally anything for you." Her response was, "I know you think that, but its not true".

I have told her this many times. She said that I don't do it right, or that doesn't count for anything. Intent doesn't matter, effect does she says.

Do you find it helpful to write this stuff down somewhere you can see everyday, to help with the FOG? Many people, including my T, recommend doing that. I haven't done that yet, but I think I will. I know just writing out these posts is helpful on its own. Sometimes I find that remembering these things and retelling others reminds me I'm not crazy. Is talking about it having a similar effect for you?

I have 3 200 page notebooks full. I've spent the greater parts of some nights laying in bed writing this out, trying to make sense of it. It part of my rumination and ocd tendencies, I grant, but sometimes it just helps to get it out of my head so I can sleep. This morning I wrote out a response to her accusation on the phone the last we talked that "I don't show up for her"- I then laid out 30 plus ways that I have shown up for her, repeatedly, over the last several months. Then I wrote out 20 ways she hasn't shown up for me (at all, really, couldn't think of any ways she has) in the same amount of time. Helps me see the idiocy of it, the projection of it.