Life when thinking about separating

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hey,

I need some words from those who have experienced or are experiencing the same thing. We have two small children together.

Often I'm confident about my desire for a separation, but I'm questioning myself a lot. When I'm away at work my thoughts become clearer, but after a few minutes at home the confusion starts closing in. I'm not sure if I'm confident enough to go through with leaving her, the whole process from the initial chock to some form of stability.
If she's making an effort to connect with me and talks positively about our relationship it makes me really anxious. It's like I need her to be bad all the time so I can leave her with my anger as a driving force. Or I need her to accept my decision and work together with me. None of these two alternatives will happen I guess.

I'm also constantly worried that she will ask for words of commitment, which she does occasionally either indirectly or directly. I cannot talk to her about what I'm thinking, so I end up giving half promises and weird answers which makes me feel really bad as I really care about her well being and don't want to mess with her. But I'm too afraid of her reaction if I tell her the truth, that I'm not quite sure where I see my future.

When I tried to break up in november, and eventually gave in and stayed, she was so happy the first day after and thought that she had stood up and saved our marriage. Later she raged at me for things I said during the break up and I don't think we're done with that yet. Also she tries to joke about it and says things like "now it's one week since you tried to dump me". And she has decided that I was only desperate to express my fear of commitment (which I have always suffered from according to her).

So my questions are:
1. What are your experience of life during a time of constantly thinking about separating.
2. How do you respond if your partner is asking you for assurance that you are committed?
3. How did you build up confidence to actually go through with it?
4. Is this moving too fast? This time last year I was afraid she would leave me even though life was bad.
5. Is it possible to prepare her for a break up or is the best alternative to pretend to be on her page?


Communicating here feels like a huge betrayal, but I still do it. She would hate me so much if she knew.

[15years]

Hey,

I need some words from those who have experienced or are experiencing the same thing. We have two small children together.

Often I'm confident about my desire for a separation, but I'm questioning myself a lot. When I'm away at work my thoughts become clearer, but after a few minutes at home the confusion starts closing in. I'm not sure if I'm confident enough to go through with leaving her, the whole process from the initial chock to some form of stability.
If she's making an effort to connect with me and talks positively about our relationship it makes me really anxious. It's like I need her to be bad all the time so I can leave her with my anger as a driving force. Or I need her to accept my decision and work together with me. None of these two alternatives will happen I guess.

I'm also constantly worried that she will ask for words of commitment, which she does occasionally either indirectly or directly. I cannot talk to her about what I'm thinking, so I end up giving half promises and weird answers which makes me feel really bad as I really care about her well being and don't want to mess with her. But I'm too afraid of her reaction if I tell her the truth, that I'm not quite sure where I see my future.

When I tried to break up in november, and eventually gave in and stayed, she was so happy the first day after and thought that she had stood up and saved our marriage. Later she raged at me for things I said during the break up and I don't think we're done with that yet. Also she tries to joke about it and says things like "now it's one week since you tried to dump me". And she has decided that I was only desperate to express my fear of commitment (which I have always suffered from according to her).

So my questions are:
1. What are your experience of life during a time of constantly thinking about separating.
2. How do you respond if your partner is asking you for assurance that you are committed?
3. How did you build up confidence to actually go through with it?
4. Is this moving too fast? This time last year I was afraid she would leave me even though life was bad.
5. Is it possible to prepare her for a break up or is the best alternative to pretend to be on her page?


Communicating here feels like a huge betrayal, but I still do it. She would hate me so much if she knew.

[NotAHero]

 Been thinking about separating for 2 years but finally took legal steps last month. Also have a small child with her.

 I’m a judge signature away from freedom but in the meantime she continued to torture me with extreme cruelty. First thing first talk to an attorney and figure out your children custody situation.  You must be out of the woods in the emotional department because what comes next will be nothing like you have seen before. You have to have full resolve to move on before you start the process. Once you work your emotions then all that’s left is the legal battle. It will be emotional one too so you can’t have weak spots. For the sake of your children it is ok to not be straightforward all the time. I was in my first divorce and it was a fatal mistake, literally.

[orders4946]

Hi OP,

Your post resonated with me as I am currently in exactly the same position.

One minute I am absolutely certain I wish to separate but then when things are 'good' (typically when I am conforming to her needs and wants) she is lovely and it makes me doubt my plans.  I similarly have young children (boys 3 years and 7 months old) and that is what is making the decision so difficult to make.  It is much easier when we are at conflict.

How have you handled the situation over the past month?  I feel so deceitful giving the impression I am trying in order to live a peaceful day-to day when I am secretly making plans to leave for the sole purpose of spending as much time as possible with my children whilst I am waiting for those plans to come to fruition.

[CoherentMoose]

Hello. 
While I did not experience this personally, I'll post on what my Fiancé went through to separate from her xBPDh. 

1. What are your experience of life during a time of constantly thinking about separating.
While there were some "reasonable" times, my GF planned her surprise exit for over a year.  She said she became someone else when home hiding the fact she was planning a surprise exit.  It took a toll emotionally and physically.  She was constantly sick.  It was a very, very difficult act.

2. How do you respond if your partner is asking you for assurance that you are committed?
She "faked" it stating whatever got her through the moment.  Again, it took a toll on her.

3. How did you build up confidence to actually go through with it?
Re-listening to Stop Walking on Eggshells helped as it re-focused her whenever things were not in a crisis.  However, BPD being BPD, there was always a crisis so that too kept her focused.

4. Is this moving too fast? This time last year I was afraid she would leave me even though life was bad.
Only you can make the final decision.  Where do you want to be next year?  And the year after that?  At some point my GF realized things would never change and she had to be the one to save herself and give her children a chance at a reasonably normal home life at least half the time.  Once that line was crossed, she planned and executed her escape. 

5. Is it possible to prepare her for a break up or is the best alternative to pretend to be on her page?
In her case, the answer was no.  She new the exit had to be a surprise in order to separate with her children.  She worked with a lawyer to craft a letter she left behind to ensure she had the required documentation in case he attempted to get the police involved.  There were a few small hiccups, but overall her plan worked and she was able to separate and eventually divorce.  Her only regret is she didn't do it sooner.  For herself and for her children. 

Be well.  CoMo

[BigOof]

Aren't you simply describing the book "I Hate You - Don't Leave Me"?

[sterlingblue]

15years,

I was in your situation last year before moving out in September.  In my case, my uBPDw would reliably claim she wanted a divorce and tell me to get out of her life when she was upset with me.  After years of this, I finally took her up on the offer and moved out during one of those episodes.

So one strategy might be to commit to her when things are good (after all, if things were to stay good/healthy, I'm guessing you really would want to stay) but be prepared to separate if/when things go off the rails.

No matter what, it's not easy.  You can read my prior posts (including a recent reply to Navigator) if you want to know more of my story.  I have kids also, S11 and S8, one of whom is experiencing a loyalty conflict and siding with Mom (I understand this is fairly common with BPD parents).  It's heartbreaking.  I miss my son, but most of all I'm sad about the effect this is having on him.

[redpoppy]

I was having these exact feelings maybe a month ago, the first time I opened up to a friend and my doctor, who wrote in my diagnosis that I was a "victim of intimate partner abuse." Since then I have said it out loud to family, friend, and counselor multiple times that I was being "emotionally abused." And I read multiple books, secretly, of course:

1.Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder
Mason, Paul
2.Gaslighting & Narcissistic Abuse Recovery: Recover from Emotional Abuse, Recognize Narcissists & Manipulators and Break Free Once and for All
Barlow, Don
3.Escaping Emotional Abuse: Healing from the Shame You Don't Deserve
Engel, Beverly
4.Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Eddy LCSW JD, Bill
5. Codependent no more
Melody Beattie
6. Where to draw the line
Anne Katherine

These have helped me realize that if you are confused or have sympathy for your partner, you are still being abused. You said it feels like betrayal to write here, it's because you've been taught by her to put her first and not care about yourself. BPDs are very skilled at giving you affection just when they think you might abandon them. Each time you think about leaving (they can feel that) and don't, they are likely to feel more secure in abusing you more.

It is essential for self-care that you don't put her needs or feelings above yours.
If you are not ready to think about leaving, don't. But start detaching yourself from her feelings, turn inward to think about how you are feeling, and think about how you can protect your children.

1. What are your experience of life during a time of constantly thinking about separating.
3. How did you build up confidence to actually go through with it?
I just want to be somewhere else with my kid. I keep looking at houses for sale and imagining myself and my kid living in them peacefully, but don't want to think about how to go through with it, or the difficulties I will face until I get there. My friend, who has prior experience with abuse, my doctor, and my counselor and my siblings have been tremendous sources of support. They are giving tangible advice about what to do. Like someone offered space to quietly store a few important items, which I hadn't thought about before.

2. How do you respond if your partner is asking you for assurance that you are committed?
5. Is it possible to prepare her for a break up or is the best alternative to pretend to be on her page?
Do not indicate that you're considering leaving. Say some loosely committal things maybe. If you worry about her feelings if you leave abruptly, you are not taking care of yourself. It is unsafe to give her a heads up. You have to be discrete to keep yourself and kids safe.

4. Is this moving too fast? This time last year I was afraid she would leave me even though life was bad.
I know it feels that way. For me, from the realization that my SO was BPD/NPD to definitely wanting a divorce it took two months. But I keep finding examples of BPD behavior from 20 years ago, red flags that I had overlooked, and realize that it isn't fast at all. It just took me too long to put a name to it.
Good luck!

[15years]

One minute I am absolutely certain I wish to separate but then when things are 'good' (typically when I am conforming to her needs and wants) she is lovely and it makes me doubt my plans.  I similarly have young children (boys 3 years and 7 months old) and that is what is making the decision so difficult to make.  It is much easier when we are at conflict.

Sorry to hear you're in the same position as I am.

I've been in the "bettering" category of this forum now for a few weeks, thinking that I could be strong enough to make this work, and at the same time thinking if it doesn't work, I still grow stronger from trying. Maybe I'm shifting back to plans of leaving now, I'm not sure. I remember thinking two months ago that the long to-do-list she makes me feel I have - I could throw that in the trash if I just left. However it's not that easy and my worst enemy is my own feelings. I'm praying this is a process moving forward and not just me spinning in circles, that's my worst nightmare.

How have you handled the situation over the past month?  I feel so deceitful giving the impression I am trying in order to live a peaceful day-to day when I am secretly making plans to leave for the sole purpose of spending as much time as possible with my children whilst I am waiting for those plans to come to fruition.

"I feel so deceitful giving the impression I am trying in order to live a peaceful day-to day" - same here. And then when she starts conflict I'm relieved. I have noticed that my feelings don't go as often to extremes as they used to do.

I can't say I've handled the situation that well, the days before and after christmas I tried to be as peaceful as I could for the sake of the children. If I felt deceitful I thought to myself I'm thinking of my kids. I didn't want to create bad memories from christmas.
After this it felt hard to again gather strength. Now I've tried to set boundaries but it's so hard and I do give in to her wishes most of the time. And one of the worst feelings is that I don't love her romantically anymore, and I'm not as attracted to her sexually as I used to be.

A tip I could give you is to talk to someone about your relationship - push forward and tell that someone one thing you wish you would have the courage to say. You'll feel guilty each time but it will pass and your personal space will grow or change at least.

[15years]

Hello. 
While I did not experience this personally, I'll post on what my Fiancé went through to separate from her xBPDh. 

Thank you very much for your reply!

[15years]

Aren't you simply describing the book "I Hate You - Don't Leave Me"?

Haven't read it but maybe I will. Thanks.

[15years]

15years,

I was in your situation last year before moving out in September.  In my case, my uBPDw would reliably claim she wanted a divorce and tell me to get out of her life when she was upset with me.  After years of this, I finally took her up on the offer and moved out during one of those episodes.

So one strategy might be to commit to her when things are good (after all, if things were to stay good/healthy, I'm guessing you really would want to stay) but be prepared to separate if/when things go off the rails.

No matter what, it's not easy.  You can read my prior posts (including a recent reply to Navigator) if you want to know more of my story.  I have kids also, S11 and S8, one of whom is experiencing a loyalty conflict and siding with Mom (I understand this is fairly common with BPD parents).  It's heartbreaking.  I miss my son, but most of all I'm sad about the effect this is having on him.

That's a strategy I myself have thought about but I'm not at all ready for it. Problem is my feelings are so short lived to the point that as soon as she gives me the feeling that she's a reasonable person, I loose my drive to leave. When I'm angry I could leave and say I never want to see her again, but moments later when the anger subsides, there would be so much anxiety and doubts. In time I hope this will become clearer.

I'm sorry about your son. I think if you're stable, he will follow later, just be there for him. I don't think he will resist you forever.

[PeteWitsend]

Hey,

I need some words from those who have experienced or are experiencing the same thing. We have two small children together.

...

Communicating here feels like a huge betrayal, but I still do it. She would hate me so much if she knew.

Hey, 15years, I went through a lot of the same things you did, including one "false start" divorce, where my XW also begged me to stay, apologized, and promised to work on her issues, and then within a week had re-written the whole episode, blaming me for overreacting and denying anything she had admitted or promised.

I also had a small child (still small, but a little bigger now), and shared my story anonymously here and another place to get some perspective and help from other people. 

Two things helped me cope with the general confusion & lies when I got home:

1) I made a calendar / journal and kept it at work, detailing days we fought, the reason for the fight, the good days, and bad days.  It helped me keep things in perspective, because as an optimist, or at least a tolerant person, I would often forget how bad things were sometimes.  I realized that even in a "good month" we were still fighting or not speaking to eachother for entire weeks.  Anywhere from 1/3 to 2/5 of the time.  In bad months, it was closer to 1/2 the time.

2) I got some therapy for myself, paid in cash so I could do it on the DL.  This helped confirm my belief that I wasn't doing anything to provoke her behavior; she was just out of line.  I think with a pwBPD, you really need to keep therapy secret because they will NOT be okay with it; they will view any outside help or counseling you receive as a threat to their ability to keep the situation confused, and maintain their permanent "victim" status.

To answer the rest of your questions (answers in italics):

So my questions are:
1. What are your experience of life during a time of constantly thinking about separating.  It's tough, man; you really can't think about the future, and know you need to cross a pretty unpleasant "bridge" (i.e. divorce) in order to move forward

2. How do you respond if your partner is asking you for assurance that you are committed? Maybe I'm wrong here, but do whatever you have to in order to protect yourself.  A pwBPD is not going to be honest with you, so you are under no obligation to be honest with them.  Whether you lie or tell the truth, they will paint you as the bad guy.  If you have to lie to calm things down, go ahead.  If you don't care and want to be honest, do so... but as soon as they feel you're on the way out, they will move faster than you to protect themselves.  And they will spare no concern for your feelings, or for appearances... after all they know they will just lie through their teeth to re-write the reasons for divorce to put all the blame on you.  And if you have any mutual friends who don't buy their stories, they will abandon those friendships and surround themselves only with those who take their side

3. How did you build up confidence to actually go through with it? Therapy?  Work on yourself?  Exercise?  I suppose this is different for everyone; the two things I mentioned above helped me.  I also spoke with a friend of mine who is a psychiatrist and who's stepmom was likely BPD.  Not every has a confidant like that, but he was pretty unequivocable that the only solution to relationships like these - if one values their happiness - is to leave.

4. Is this moving too fast? This time last year I was afraid she would leave me even though life was bad. Don't worry about things being "too fast"... that's a subjective value, and is not material.  Focus on what you need, and what your kids need.  Take care of those and move forward.

5. Is it possible to prepare her for a break up or is the best alternative to pretend to be on her page? See point #2 above: you cannot do this cordially with a pwBPD.  You are not only triggering, but actually doing one of their major fears (abandonment), and do not expect them to behave rationally, honestly, or sensibly here.  They will alternate between emotional outbursts, love, pleas for forgiveness, spite, hatred, and possibly even worse.  They will stab you in the back every chance they get.  They will agree to things and break their promise the second your guard is down.  Protect yourself (mentally, physically, legally, and financially), and your kids and do not let her blur those lines between her own interests and yours.  

For example, In my own case, I learned from a third party that at the same time my XW was pleading with me to stay, telling me she loved me, and promising that she'd go to therapy & marital counseling,  she was telling people that she didn't mean any of that, and she just didn't feel like getting divorced.  She had a new boyfriend a couple months after I moved out, let him move into our house, and lied about it and denied it, as she was violating the "no habitation if the kids are home" rule she insisted on in our temporary orders after I moved out and filed.  That's a whole other story...

[ForeverDad]

I would have quoted all Pete's responses but this excerpt is what I felt impelled to expound upon.

5. Is it possible to prepare her for a break up or is the best alternative to pretend to be on her page? See point #2 above: you cannot do this cordially with a pwBPD.  You are not only triggering, but actually doing one of their major fears (abandonment), and do not expect them to behave rationally, honestly, or sensibly here.  They will alternate between emotional outbursts, love, pleas for forgiveness, spite, hatred, and possibly even worse...

Fear of Abandonment is a prime motivator for pwBPD.  The head-shaking reality is that their fear — and how they express it in their lives — is precisely the reason why the relationships fail.  For us, if the disorder is severe enough, the only way to end being on the receiving side of the poor behaviors is to end the relationship.  (If there are shared children, the the adult relationship ends but the parenting relationships continue somehow.)  The pwBPD does not know how to (or will not) moderate over the long term their extremes of behavior and perceptions.  That's why their moods and emotions range from one extreme to the other.  And why their fear of abandonment and dysfunctional ways of dealing with control and demands ends up causing what they fear.

[zaqsert]

2) I got some therapy for myself, paid in cash so I could do it on the DL.  This helped confirm my belief that I wasn't doing anything to provoke her behavior; she was just out of line.  I think with a pwBPD, you really need to keep therapy secret because they will NOT be okay with it; they will view any outside help or counseling you receive as a threat to their ability to keep the situation confused, and maintain their permanent "victim" status.

Great advice from others above.

Expanding on this one — even if your wife knows about your therapy, go through with it for yourself. She may tell you you don't need it, she may say it's really about her, she may insist that you have to address the issues that affect her in your therapy. None of that matters. Your therapy is for you, period. And you don't have to explain or justify any of this to your wife.

My uBPDw dysregulated in a pretty bad way. It lasted a full two weeks, and now in the third week she's not verbally attacking our daughter (11) and me as she had been, but she's still far from back to normal or stable. A few days into it I mentioned to her that I'm booking a session with my therapist. I didn't need to tell her, but she had thrown something related in my face recently, so I mentioned it in case it helped avoid a similar scene this time.

Her response? I don't need the therapy. It's her problem. She's the one who was [supposedly] so terribly mistreated by our daughter and by me. I pointed out that this stuff that's going on affects all of us, our daughter and me included. It seemed in the state she was in, she couldn't comprehend that. It didn't matter though. I left it at that, stepped away from that brief conversation, and had a very helpful session with my therapist a couple of days later.

Do what you need to do for yourself. And you don't have to justify it to anyone else.