Psychotherapy,psychotherapy,psychotherapy

[Firsttimefather]

Hello,
  I branched out and created new networks in my journey of detachment. From these boards to great friends, old friends, family, my partner’s family, therapists, counselors, ,all wise friends,  I also dug deep within, I slept so little, received so much advice, so much perspective, so much love and support. I freed myself from the isolation, I told my story, I heard it reflected back to me. I questioned, I doubted, I considered, I remembered, I forgot, I even remembered I forgot, I heard it, I saw it…….

Repairing a house for a man named Steve, a psychotherapist by trade. Last we spoke he mentioned his love for working with BpD. He claims to always keep one on his roster. The reason? He says it makes him a better therapist to be so challenged.
 
I spoke to Steve today regarding the story and my partner’s request to work it out. Steve’s advice is as follows:

Once she called the police it was over for me. When she first drew her delusional theory: the substance of which does not matter, it could be anything, and announced it’s over? The only response you should give is ‘ thank you for setting me free’ and walk away. Avoid the dysregulation but always keep the upper hand. Once you do that and walk away, the Bpd tends to flip the other way again. It takes quite some time to totally work it back to neurotypical but the ride will be less bumpy the less you say. Use “I’m sorry you feel that way”. In the face of allegations, “That’s not true” and leave it at that. But always end with the upper hand.
   What is surely to follow is a persistent pursuit. You will be shown a most undying, intoxicating attention. Next time you see this in a person you will most likely see it a red flag. You just have to let it go and be thankful you got out. The cycle will only repeat itself. I’ve seen to many men’s lives ruined by this. Criminal records, courts, lawyers. She called the police once there is a high possibility she does it again. Maybe she takes herself to therapy but it can’t be a ‘homecoming’ gift.
  Be glad you got off the ride and now look forward to life with all the new knowledge you gained. Box it up and take a rest. (SC said the same thing)
  She texted angry and upset because I didn’t come over. I explained I wanted to but I couldn’t. The police issue is too large to ignore. She was all about her, but (acted?) hurt that I wasn’t coming. I told her I just can’t get over it. Her response was not a voice of compromise, of ‘I really wanna work this out’.. it was ‘fine then’ , ‘I’m sick of trying’( the extent of which was 16 unanswered phone calls? ). …. I was blackmailed again “well if you don’t come over (despite your lack of trust in me and sense of self preservation) then it’s over”.. ‘this doesn’t feel like love’.

  I didn’t argue. I offered to her: “hey, if you love me and really think we can overcome this I’m all ears”
  I offered this but didn’t really expect her to offer ideas. I consider the possibility it may all just be a bunch of lip service.
Also I gave her more proof to dispel one of her theories. The response? More interrogation: can you provide me with the text thread to prove that conversation?
  We ended, she ended with: fine, I’m accepting it’s over, if you can’t get past it then that’s that.

   I recognized that everything she said was about her. Also no opposition, no ‘I understand your concerns how can we work this out? ‘  I didn’t hear sadness, I heard pouting. The bitter ‘I didn’t get my way’ The ‘I can’t believe you would leave me alone when I’m at my worst’

  I didn’t respond. I anticipate an evening of about 15 unanswered phone calls, various texts and possibly a suicide threat if I don’t respond. I think I’ll turn the phone off.  I have a temporary place to stay with no urgency. I may just put everything in storage and get out of the lease sooner.
  For now I’m going to rest. Give my mind a break.

[SinisterComplex]

So the best way to handle the situation...Be firm and indifferent. Do not react, do not let your emotions get involved...that is what she wants. As your friend mentioned...keep the upper hand and you do that by not reacting and not letting your emotions get involved. That part will feel and seem unnatural to you most likely, but I assure you it is a necessity. I had to help a close friend who went through a divorce and teach him how to do the exact same thing.

You cannot relent, you have to be perfect essentially. What do I mean by perfect...not slipping up with emotion. Do not flip flop like a pancake. You have to be firm and indifferent, but be strong and consistent as well. The second you allow your emotions to take hold you will make a mistake...this is what she is wanting. It is all about power and control. Think of it like a game you are playing with a child and it will make a lot more sense. Your emotions and reactions are her toy that she wants, but she is being scolded by a parent for not behaving so she doesn't get the toy. She pouts and acts like a spoiled brat. 

See the problem is she knows your weak points and she will purposely try to push those buttons to get the desired response that she wants from you.

FTF, I would strongly recommend you to definitely get out. You need space and you need to heal.

Enough though...you are going through a lot. Look after yourself. Get sleep. Rest. Relax. Find some solace in being alone and being provided the tranquility of only focusing on yourself to get yourself better.

Cheers and best wishes to you!

-SC-

[grumpydonut]

fine, I’m accepting it’s over, if you can’t get past it then that’s that.

Ahh yes, there it is. The whole "it's not my actions that are the problem, it's your inability to move past them".

I had this when she cheated on me. She would say "you're never going to let that go" or "I didn't want it!".

Complete lack of remorse, and a great thing for you to focus on. She really doesn't care how she hurt you, or see anything truly wrong with it.

[Turkish]

There was a good discussion here more than a few years ago about "letting go (or detaching) with grace." Sorry I couldn't find it...

But it's better to do that rather than "gray rock" or the cold emotional cut off. It sounds here like you've both accepted that it's over, and hopefully she'll let you go likewise.

[Firsttimefather]

Grumpy, I see what you mean in her words. She also did apologize before that statement, multiple times however I hadn’t read that line in that way and that is very interesting.
 Sinister,
  I had a therapy session today and my therapist having spoken with both of us on separate occasions , said it is obvious there is a lot of mutual love and respect between she and I and that if we decided to work it out and try again that he sees a treatment plan..me working on establishing firmer boundaries and she working on boundaries and develop better skills for dealing with the disorder. She had therapy today too and she was in a great mood and energy afterwards. We did talk a bit and it was a great conversation. We spoke about concerns for the future if
we tried again but she is adamant that she loves me and feels terrible about everything and wants to reconcile.We spoke about
Concerns such as dating app and triggers. We decided to talk about it all again.
   If nothing else I like the idea of exiting with grace. I love that we are communicating peacefully.
  My therapist spoke about couples he counsels that include Bpd and he spoke of many successes. He also feels that the police thing probably won’t happen again. That it was an impulsive decision but she learned a lot from it. (I recognize this is a gamble though I do somewhat agree with him)
 There is so much to think about of course, a big part of me would like to try again if we can make some agreements, boundaries etc but it is nothing I perceive happening overnight. I don’t know that it will happen. I’ve come a long way in a short time and learned a ton.. all the same questions are on the table: the future? Children? Security, sanctuary and police?
  I’m starting to get responses from my thread on police. Is it wrong to wanna consider trying again? I feel that we did some good heartfelt apologies, I sincerely do.

[grumpydonut]

Is it wrong to wanna consider trying again? I feel that we did some good heartfelt apologies, I sincerely do.

If you do, there is absolute certainty it'll fall apart. There is zero doubt. I challenge you to find one story that has reached your depths that ended in "happy ever after".

[grumpydonut]

Also, is this therapist well versed in BPD? What is his basis for saying that the police thing won't happen again? My therapist is an expert in BPD (this is why I chose him) and his exact words for me were "you were very lucky, it gets much worse".

End of the day, you should make your own decision, but I personally think that you are walking straight into the lion's den. Everything she is doing is designed to manipulate you (even seeking treatment) and you will see it all fall apart in a few months. This is what borderlines do when they feel like they've been discarded - they do and say everything they know you want to hear and see.

I'd also question why you would want to date someone who falsely accused you to the police even once? Is this really the best person for you to date?

[SinisterComplex]

Grumpy, I see what you mean in her words. She also did apologize before that statement, multiple times however I hadn’t read that line in that way and that is very interesting.
 Sinister,
  I had a therapy session today and my therapist having spoken with both of us on separate occasions , said it is obvious there is a lot of mutual love and respect between she and I and that if we decided to work it out and try again that he sees a treatment plan..me working on establishing firmer boundaries and she working on boundaries and develop better skills for dealing with the disorder. She had therapy today too and she was in a great mood and energy afterwards. We did talk a bit and it was a great conversation. We spoke about concerns for the future if
we tried again but she is adamant that she loves me and feels terrible about everything and wants to reconcile.We spoke about
Concerns such as dating app and triggers. We decided to talk about it all again.
   If nothing else I like the idea of exiting with grace. I love that we are communicating peacefully.
  My therapist spoke about couples he counsels that include Bpd and he spoke of many successes. He also feels that the police thing probably won’t happen again. That it was an impulsive decision but she learned a lot from it. (I recognize this is a gamble though I do somewhat agree with him)
 There is so much to think about of course, a big part of me would like to try again if we can make some agreements, boundaries etc but it is nothing I perceive happening overnight. I don’t know that it will happen. I’ve come a long way in a short time and learned a ton.. all the same questions are on the table: the future? Children? Security, sanctuary and police?
  I’m starting to get responses from my thread on police. Is it wrong to wanna consider trying again? I feel that we did some good heartfelt apologies, I sincerely do.

Props to you...you are doing much better with the breaks in between ;-).  

Hey it is not wrong to wanna consider trying again. Regardless of what others may say. You know your situation and you know her. But you cannot just impulsively dive right in again and expect it all to work it out. In truth it wouldn't be easy and it would be a mountain to climb.

What I propose...spend some time apart. Work on yourself. Give yourself time to digest everything and process it. You are human, not a robot so it takes time.

My straight to the point answer before is that you need space hence why I said it is best to get out. The only way to gain clarity is to take a few steps back and not let outside influences sway you. When you can go after something because it is what you truly want then no one can fault you for that. Just be cautious and use proper judgment. If you decide to truly part ways then definitely make it on good terms. Harboring negative feelings will actually keep you tied to it more so than positive.

FTF, also you will never have to apologize with me. I am here to help. Just do what is in your best interests and I will support you if you so choose. It is your life and you have to live it and what you do is up to you amigo.

Cheers and best wishes FTF!

-SC-

[Couscous]

FTF,

The question is not IF you should get out, but rather HOW to get out, and how to handle the inevitable withdrawal symptoms. I know it feels like love, but it’s actually an addiction.

But you may need to learn this the hard way and really hit bottom with this girl. And if so, hopefully you will be able to get out without a DV on your record….unlike my hapless brother who foolishly gave his false police report filer BPD girlfriend a second chance.

[Firsttimefather]

Hello Cous cous,
 Can you please  tell me more about your brother’s story? I thank you for your advice. I am listening. If you refer to my thread on ‘police reports’ you will see where I am in my journey. You are not the first to say this to me. I am curious of your brother’s tale.

 GrumpyD,
 Oh grumpo, you are probably right and your comment came at a great time. It is why I am not jumping back into anything. I want to set the stage for if I’m fact I do just walk away, I do it with grace, if possible.
  If you read my ‘police report’ thread I talk about where I am. Trust is a big deal.  It begins with me, I know this, but I definitely need to consider how it could possibly end.

[Couscous]

FTF, the details of his story are not important. While I personally think that anyone who wants to get out of a relationship with a BPD would benefit from a stint in rehab, sometimes it takes hitting bottom to finally make important life changes.

While I am still waiting for my brother to finally hit bottom, it was his second BPD relationship with another false police report filer, which predictably turned into a nightmare, that resulted in me hitting bottom. For the sake of my own emotional wellbeing I have decided that I will not be able to maintain any kind or relationship with him unless he is gets into some kind of 12 Step Program, like Al-Anon or maybe even SLAA. This has also meant that I had to make the heartbreaking decision to forfeit being able to have a relationship with my two year old nephew who had the great misfortune of being born into a family from hell, and to a mother who conceived him against my brother's will solely to punish him. This she actually admitted to doing after I kept pressing her to explain to me her rationale for getting pregnant after she realized that he wanted to end the relationship. She said that he had exploited her and her financial resources when they moved in together, (she bought all the furniture,)so now he would have to pay her back in child support payments. I kid you not.

[Firsttimefather]

CC,
 I see what you mean but what role did your brother play in the ordeals? It takes two, not that I don’t believe the Bpd is a radical in the equation. I ask this as you are on these boards but is your brother? Are you or were you in a Bpd relationship also? I actually do believe details are important. I see two T and both have seen successes that start out with a very traumatic/abusive stunt but the couple seeks help. Now, not to say it lasts forever but does seem that if the non has their stuff together, the knowledge etc. It can be of great help. Again, I’m not taking things lightly by any means but I also find it hard to believe that all people who are diagnosed Bpd are malevolently manipulative. Sure , tell you what you want so you don’t leave, I get that. I feel like nons do that too. Do you buy a drink for a beautiful woman at a bar without a hope that it may turn into something? I also see how when spun in the throes of Cptsd it is easy to engage in behaviors as a non: speaking only of  the ‘bad’ side of Bpd partner as an example. I’m not that kind of thinker personally. As for therapists: all three are very knowledgeable and two I have seen for many years. I have PTSD so I’ve don’t CBT for a long time. I’ve learned from all three that yes there are positive outcomes but if things are going well it is not common to go on to support forums and say ‘it’s going great’ , I feel we should if that’s the case but why would you? I’m not saying I disagree with your attitude and sentiment. By your story too I see that ‘tough love/cut off’ approach is a good option when things aren’t going as you would hope. Again, you may be right but your brother might need you even if not in a 12 step program. My brother too was married to a Bpd. It was very frustrating as we felt he wasn’t hearing us, but we never turned our back on him.
  I really hope you don’t think I’m being snarky, or combative. I really just want to consider and talk through questions/thoughts.
 Again my focus is truly on me. I’m at the gym right now! (Why did I smoke those stupid cigs. Lol..stupid PTsD)
 I’m not trying to fix my partner, solve her problems. I won’t allow us to anything if she doesn’t agree to boundaries etc. In a way I have an upper hand as she doesn’t really want a new housemate etc. She knows I am aware of the Bpd and we talk no about that and recognize behaviors and she went right to therapy. Your brother? Therapy?, his wife therapy? Does your brother drink, party , etc? Did any of this complicate matters during dysregulation?
 I really thank you for your time. Again I hope I’m not p…sing you off. Your experience is on my mind a ton right now(your brother’s) thanks again

[once removed]

i think that it may be confusing for you and the support(ers) youre seeking, if you are entertaining hope of reconciling the relationship, to be on the Detaching board. it is generally a board for "abandon all hope".

the same applies if you ultimately want to get out, but want to retain a friendly relationship. youre going to end up debating what constitutes that.

there is ongoing conflict with your wife. how do you navigate that? either through letting go and divorcing, or through a solutions oriented strategy.

what do you think?

[Firsttimefather]

Hello OR,
 I put my post on the conflicted/reversing thread as it seemed more appropriate to me for sake of the question I was posing. In truth I am a bit conflicted so taking it day by day.
 I apologized for not having a better explanation or stance than this. My recent therapy appointment we discussed possibly staying and attempting to work it out. Again this can only happen if agreements and boundaries are met.
 I’m interested in learning more ‘solutions oriented strategies’.