first time here

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

My first time here so I start with some explaining. I am from the Netherlands. My problem is very old but I never thought it was necessary to do something about it wich is in hindsight very stupid of me.I have had a relation and marriage and now a friendship and a shared grown up child  with  my ex who has borderline. We have been divorced for 20 years after a marriage of 17 years and now still in a friendship with each other, wich is getting more difficult for me. But the worst thing is that our son has a lot of trouble in his life. He is 33 years old now and his mother is very much in his life wich isn't always good for him. I try to influence my ex wife to leave him alone a little bit because she has a lot of influence on him wich prevents him from being his own person. I try to tell my ex she has to leave him alone but than she just gets angry. How can I do this in a way that nobody gets hurt. Because my son also gets angry with me when I try talking about this, he loves his mother and is very dependant of her.

greetings

[Cornelius]

My first time here so I start with some explaining. I am from the Netherlands. My problem is very old but I never thought it was necessary to do something about it wich is in hindsight very stupid of me.I have had a relation and marriage and now a friendship and a shared grown up child  with  my ex who has borderline. We have been divorced for 20 years after a marriage of 17 years and now still in a friendship with each other, wich is getting more difficult for me. But the worst thing is that our son has a lot of trouble in his life. He is 33 years old now and his mother is very much in his life wich isn't always good for him. I try to influence my ex wife to leave him alone a little bit because she has a lot of influence on him wich prevents him from being his own person. I try to tell my ex she has to leave him alone but than she just gets angry. How can I do this in a way that nobody gets hurt. Because my son also gets angry with me when I try talking about this, he loves his mother and is very dependant of her.

greetings

[BigOof]

So you're friends with the BPD ex you're asking your son not to be friends with? Or did I misunderstand your post?

[alleyesonme]

My first time here so I start with some explaining. I am from the Netherlands. My problem is very old but I never thought it was necessary to do something about it wich is in hindsight very stupid of me.I have had a relation and marriage and now a friendship and a shared grown up child  with  my ex who has borderline. We have been divorced for 20 years after a marriage of 17 years and now still in a friendship with each other, wich is getting more difficult for me. But the worst thing is that our son has a lot of trouble in his life. He is 33 years old now and his mother is very much in his life wich isn't always good for him. I try to influence my ex wife to leave him alone a little bit because she has a lot of influence on him wich prevents him from being his own person. I try to tell my ex she has to leave him alone but than she just gets angry. How can I do this in a way that nobody gets hurt. Because my son also gets angry with me when I try talking about this, he loves his mother and is very dependant of her.

greetings

That's a tough question and a tough situation. What first comes to mind for me is that the best thing you can do is to maintain/form the best and closest relationship possible with your son. Ideally, he'll see the healthy and normal behaviors in you and gradually begin to notice the big difference between the way you two act and live. I understand the need to walk a fine line here, as you don't want to bash his mother to his face, but you also want him to be as happy as possible. From knowing your son, do you think he'd be able to follow your cues and be led by example to be - for lack of a better way to put it - less like her and more like you?

[ForeverDad]

But the worst thing is that our son has a lot of trouble in his life. He is 33 years old now and his mother is very much in his life which isn't always good for him. I try to influence my ex wife to leave him alone a little bit because she has a lot of influence on him which prevents him from being his own person. I try to tell my ex she has to leave him alone but than she just gets angry.

Neither your ex-spouse nor your son are listening to you.  Both are adults.  Both are resisting your advice.  They're not likely to change their adult behaviors unless they want to change them.

Have you read our articles on Tools and Skills (<--link) such as communication, boundaries and more?

[Cornelius]

Thank you all for the fast reaction.
I also sometimes, when I am very tired, think that they are grown up so they can decide for themselves so just let them go and don't see them so often ,  but I cannot keep that up when I see how depressed they are and that depresses me and they are my family so I cannot let them down.
I know now that I cannot expect to much from my ex because with her borderline she has no control, so now I try to make clear deals with her, just practical things like we eat together once in two weeks, just so she won't go over my borders and be with me every day. It is hard to keep those borders because she does her games with it but with some effort from me I can keep her on a little distance. But my son is not ready yet to define borders for his mother. I am going to buy a book from Paul mason and Randy Kreger about how to live with a borderliner and study that and than I am slowly going to teach my son how to do this. That is the plan for now, it is going to take some time but there is no quick solution for this problem. When I try to do it quikly she gets angry or shuts down, so do it the slow way and try to stay close to myself and what I want while trying this.
I am very gratefull for this forum because it really is the first time in my life I can try to talk about this and I really have to cry now.
Thanks

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Cornelius-

Welcome to our family.  I am very sorry for the pain that brings you here, but very glad you’ve found us.  I have to apologize, because some of what I’m going to say may be difficult for you to hear.  But I pray it will be helpful and explain some things to you...maybe?

First, it seems that before you can truly help your beloved son, it may be helpful for you to really look at how YOU can establish more solid boundaries and space between yourself  and your BPDexW (BPD ex-wife).  If I understand correctly you’ve been divorced for 20 years.  Aside from co-parenting responsibilities you shared while your son was a child, you truly do NOT “owe” your ex-wife any more time - especially if she continues to act in angry ways toward you.  There has always been therapy and others means available for her get help to better manage her emotions and behavior.  That is not your responsibility.

The boundaries you establish around how often you spend time with her are for you.  Not her.  Our boundaries represent our values.  The disordered people in our lives generally take no interest in respecting our boundaries... Over time, as we learn to uphold our own boundaries we regain our self-respect and self-worth.  If this means you make other plans, meet new friends, develop new hobbies, then that’s what you do.

You have stated that she wants to see you daily and you’re trying for lunch every two weeks; but is that often even good for you?  Have you given this any thought?

The second thing is your son.  This is a very complex topic that’s not often tackled here.  And this topic is actually one of the primary reasons I left the relationship with my BPD/NPD ex-boyfriend.  He was SO enmeshed with his mother that it was truly disturbing and extremely destructive to most of his relationships (ours included).  I did not realize how bad the situation was until the last year of our relationship (6.5 years total), after her husband passed away and she moved to our town full time.

There is a book called “Silently Seduced” by Dr. Kenneth Adams that addresses Covert Incest.  This is NOT directly sexual in nature, but it does relate to a parent treating a child more like a spouse or partner.  And that IS the case with my ex-BF.  He expressed discomfort to me about the relationship with his mother on numerous occasions, but he was unable to change anything about it.  Or rather he wouldn’t.  He was 62 years old when we parted ways.  There is a lot to this... he truly never developed his own identity.  It still makes me sad almost two years out.

I wish I didn’t understand this, but I do.  And Cornelius - I have a friendship that I recently ended because I saw this friend doing the same thing to her 24-year old daughter.  I could not watch it.  Just couldn’t.

I know this is extremely painful and I am so so sorry.  I do believe there are steps you can take.  Please continue posting and let’s see if we can help you through this.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes