Enough is enough

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

It’s been a hell of a long road to get to this point, but enough is enough. I’ve seen everything I need to see. I’ve stared down the messes that I’ve brought into this 13-year marriage and slayed the dragons that I could slay. There’s nothing left for me to do but move on from the madness.

This past Sunday was the final tipping point. It was ugly. Mere miscommunication and misinterpretation turned into bickering turned into an uncontrollable rage on both our parts. It actually turned physical, which is a first and a last. If that’s how far we’re willing to take this, to actually lay hands on each other, then I’ve seen enough.

*of course it’s never okay, but let it be said that she shoved me once (unprovoked, to the best of my recollection) and I shoved her back. That’s it. Not good, obviously, but nothing more than that.

I’m just done with it. All the gaslighting and deflecting, all the blaming me for her mess, the total lack of any effort whatsoever, the lack of accountability, feeling like I’m not even on her list of priorities.

I will NEVER be enough for her. EVER. This is trying to fill a cup that has a hole in it. It will never end. “How much does a pwbpd need from you? All of it and then some.”

I left my career a year+ ago to start my own business. There were some lean weeks early on, but I was cash flow positive almost immediately. No debt on the business at all. In very short time I was making as much at the new job as I did at my old one. No financial catastrophes. Never borrowed money or missed a bill or skipped a meal. Everything is fine.

Yet from the beginning I was lambasted over money, or the financial crisis that she PERCEIVED us to be in, or her anxieties and insecurities over money:

“I’ll divorce you if we should face money problems”,
“You’re not fulfilling your role as husband/father”,
“I hate our marriage. This biz is going to ruin my credit”,
“You’re a coward and a liar”,
“You’re not spending MY money on this”,
“You’re hiding money. You want to control me”,
“I married a cop (my prev job) for financial security”,
“We’re broke. I’m going to have to get another job”.

My thinking? If you’re worried about money then you could be fully supportive of my new biz, the biz that’s actually making the money that’s making you feel less anxious and insecure. Help me put it together, visit me at work (6 mins from our house), show enthusiasm and excitement, bring business cards to your job, etc. All easy to do and what I’ve asked you for multiple times. Yet she has REFUSED to do any of it. Flat out refused.

“I don’t have to support it. It wasn’t my idea.”

So I’ve trudged on for the last year, desperately trying to hold it together and get my business off the ground. I’m very fortunate and blessed to have accomplished in months what should take a year or two. I’ve got a really good and faithful client base and am making as much as I was making previously. Eventually she’ll see that right? She’ll see that everything is fine, I’m successful and happy, this will all work out and it will calm her fears, right? She has to. It has to work.

Except that while she’s been crushing me over money, emasculating me and cutting me down to my very soul over these perceived money problems she’s been spending money like she’s on shore leave! I sat down and did some basic accounting the other day, based off our joint checking account. The very woman who is so afraid of going broke spent over $10,000 last year on things outside the home, outside the care of our children, outside of groceries and bills, etc. $10,000 on unnecessary frivolities, clothes, makeup, etc. $800+ a month on total bullsh!t while holding a gun to my head, threatening to take my marriage away from me.

I’ve seen this story before. I’ve been in this spot before and I’m not gonna do it again. She got sober about 4 years ago and that was a hell of a ride in and of itself. But the pattern of bullsh!t leading up to it was the same. She did anything and everything she could to distract me from the real issues, tried desperately to blame me, make wild allegations, threaten my very manhood, accuse me of things, anything she could do to bring me down to her level.

It was only when she was fully backed into a corner did she pursue sobriety. But guess what? Since then she has never acknowledged what she put us through, never atoned or apologized, never made her amends. To this day she still blames me for her drinking and is bitter for having to stop. It was never her fault and never will be. It will always be my fault.

This (perceived) spending addiction? Why would I bother trying to battle through this one? I did that before. I stood by her side all the way through it. Everyone else ran away. I was there. I loved her through it. I got myself right through therapy and Al-Anon. I was not going to let her go through it alone. I held the family together while she went to rehab. We got through it. I’ve told her how proud of her I am. We had a second chance at a life. But that was never going to be enough.

There are givers and takers in this world and she is a taker. It’s that simple. She will take as long as I give and will never ever return the favor.

I have nothing left to give her.

There’s more, but that’s it for now.

[M604V]

It’s been a hell of a long road to get to this point, but enough is enough. I’ve seen everything I need to see. I’ve stared down the messes that I’ve brought into this 13-year marriage and slayed the dragons that I could slay. There’s nothing left for me to do but move on from the madness.

This past Sunday was the final tipping point. It was ugly. Mere miscommunication and misinterpretation turned into bickering turned into an uncontrollable rage on both our parts. It actually turned physical, which is a first and a last. If that’s how far we’re willing to take this, to actually lay hands on each other, then I’ve seen enough.

*of course it’s never okay, but let it be said that she shoved me once (unprovoked, to the best of my recollection) and I shoved her back. That’s it. Not good, obviously, but nothing more than that.

I’m just done with it. All the gaslighting and deflecting, all the blaming me for her mess, the total lack of any effort whatsoever, the lack of accountability, feeling like I’m not even on her list of priorities.

I will NEVER be enough for her. EVER. This is trying to fill a cup that has a hole in it. It will never end. “How much does a pwbpd need from you? All of it and then some.”

I left my career a year+ ago to start my own business. There were some lean weeks early on, but I was cash flow positive almost immediately. No debt on the business at all. In very short time I was making as much at the new job as I did at my old one. No financial catastrophes. Never borrowed money or missed a bill or skipped a meal. Everything is fine.

Yet from the beginning I was lambasted over money, or the financial crisis that she PERCEIVED us to be in, or her anxieties and insecurities over money:

“I’ll divorce you if we should face money problems”,
“You’re not fulfilling your role as husband/father”,
“I hate our marriage. This biz is going to ruin my credit”,
“You’re a coward and a liar”,
“You’re not spending MY money on this”,
“You’re hiding money. You want to control me”,
“I married a cop (my prev job) for financial security”,
“We’re broke. I’m going to have to get another job”.

My thinking? If you’re worried about money then you could be fully supportive of my new biz, the biz that’s actually making the money that’s making you feel less anxious and insecure. Help me put it together, visit me at work (6 mins from our house), show enthusiasm and excitement, bring business cards to your job, etc. All easy to do and what I’ve asked you for multiple times. Yet she has REFUSED to do any of it. Flat out refused.

“I don’t have to support it. It wasn’t my idea.”

So I’ve trudged on for the last year, desperately trying to hold it together and get my business off the ground. I’m very fortunate and blessed to have accomplished in months what should take a year or two. I’ve got a really good and faithful client base and am making as much as I was making previously. Eventually she’ll see that right? She’ll see that everything is fine, I’m successful and happy, this will all work out and it will calm her fears, right? She has to. It has to work.

Except that while she’s been crushing me over money, emasculating me and cutting me down to my very soul over these perceived money problems she’s been spending money like she’s on shore leave! I sat down and did some basic accounting the other day, based off our joint checking account. The very woman who is so afraid of going broke spent over $10,000 last year on things outside the home, outside the care of our children, outside of groceries and bills, etc. $10,000 on unnecessary frivolities, clothes, makeup, etc. $800+ a month on total bullsh!t while holding a gun to my head, threatening to take my marriage away from me.

I’ve seen this story before. I’ve been in this spot before and I’m not gonna do it again. She got sober about 4 years ago and that was a hell of a ride in and of itself. But the pattern of bullsh!t leading up to it was the same. She did anything and everything she could to distract me from the real issues, tried desperately to blame me, make wild allegations, threaten my very manhood, accuse me of things, anything she could do to bring me down to her level.

It was only when she was fully backed into a corner did she pursue sobriety. But guess what? Since then she has never acknowledged what she put us through, never atoned or apologized, never made her amends. To this day she still blames me for her drinking and is bitter for having to stop. It was never her fault and never will be. It will always be my fault.

This (perceived) spending addiction? Why would I bother trying to battle through this one? I did that before. I stood by her side all the way through it. Everyone else ran away. I was there. I loved her through it. I got myself right through therapy and Al-Anon. I was not going to let her go through it alone. I held the family together while she went to rehab. We got through it. I’ve told her how proud of her I am. We had a second chance at a life. But that was never going to be enough.

There are givers and takers in this world and she is a taker. It’s that simple. She will take as long as I give and will never ever return the favor.

I have nothing left to give her.

There’s more, but that’s it for now.

[M604V]

Point being is I have an appointment with a mediator/attorney for next week.

[kells76]

It makes sense that you got to a point of being done. Sometimes there are marriages and relationships where because of the unique dynamic between the two partners, it won't be possible to end the conflict and keep the relationship. Like you said, you've seen what you needed to see to make the choice to move on.

...

There will probably be two threads going on at the same time for you as you move forward.

One is the logistical stuff -- attorneys, mediators, parenting plans, unwinding finances, etc. That's going to take a level head, forethought, and learning from others' experiences here to make sure that your kids are taken care of. These are not normal divorces and it's going to be critical to approach the separation, divorce, and parenting aspects with the understanding that "boilerplate" won't be good enough. I would assume from the get-go that you guys won't be able to have the "well, we didn't work out as partners, but I bet we can put that behind us and coparent equally" experience.

The other is emotionally and psychologically processing what happened. There may be anger, pain, frustration at double standards, getting triggered... stuff that hurts, stuff that sets you off, stuff you grieve.

It is so important to keep each thread in its own lane. When we let our fear, anger, frustration, and pain spill over into how we navigate the legal side, it shoots us in the foot.

It's really good that you're meeting with a lawyer. Consider doing an initial consultation (can be free or low cost) with maybe one or two more, so you have some comparison. That helped us, not to go with the first L we met.

Consider also seeing a therapist or counselor yourself (if you're not already). The lawyer won't necessarily tell you when your anger or pain is impacting your legal strategy, but a good counselor can help you process stuff so that when you meet with your L, you're coming at it from a better headspace.

...

Can you remind me how old the kids are?

[M604V]

Thank you Kells. Kids are 11D and 8S.

The insanity has to stop. I refuse to let this be my life any longer. The children deserve better, even though they don’t know it yet. But one day, when it’s too late, they’ll look back and say “we deserve*D* better.”  I can’t wait til time runs out and then scramble to make it up to them. The time is now.

Honestly? I wonder (hope?) that my W will view this as almost like a mercy move. That I’m freeing her of whatever this marriage is doing to her. That she’ll recognize I’m actually doing this out of love, that I don’t want to “take” anything from her.

I hope she’ll see it that way, but I doubt it.  I will give her the opportunity to do this like an adult. If she doesn’t take it then I will just have to protect myself from her. And *that* will be the thing that really sets her off. If she sees me starting to separate finances, sorting through possessions, etc. That will send her over the edge.

I just want to do this with my head high. I don’t want to regret it. I know it’s gonna hurt and I’m gonna feel like sh!t. I just pray that I can get through it knowing it was the right thing to do. If not I’m screwed. If I do this and then regret it I’m in a heap of trouble.

Hopefully re-starting therapy next week.

[Tangled mangled]

Thank you Kells. Kids are 11D and 8S.

The insanity has to stop. I refuse to let this be my life any longer. The children deserve better, even though they don’t know it yet. But one day, when it’s too late, they’ll look back and say “we deserve*D* better.”  I can’t wait til time runs out and then scramble to make it up to them. The time is now.

Honestly? I wonder (hope?) that my W will view this as almost like a mercy move. That I’m freeing her of whatever this marriage is doing to her. That she’ll recognize I’m actually doing this out of love, that I don’t want to “take” anything from her.

I hope she’ll see it that way, but I doubt it.  I will give her the opportunity to do this like an adult. If she doesn’t take it then I will just have to protect myself from her. And *that* will be the thing that really sets her off. If she sees me starting to separate finances, sorting through possessions, etc. That will send her over the edge.

I just want to do this with my head high. I don’t want to regret it. I know it’s gonna hurt and I’m gonna feel like sh!t. I just pray that I can get through it knowing it was the right thing to do. If not I’m screwed. If I do this and then regret it I’m in a heap of trouble.

Hopefully re-starting therapy next week.

@M604V,

I’ve followed your story in the past, sounds like you have been through hell. I was in your shoes around 20 months ago. Knowing my marriage was over but just couldn’t find the courage to pull the plug.
In the UK it cost a lot of money just to file for divorce and my my ex husband refused to contribute his half to pay for the application fee.
I’m bringing this up just to make you aware that from here on if you are bent on proceeding with divorce, don’t expect your wife to handle this like an adult. She will not. There will be no rationality on her part, you will be going down this road alone, just like you were in the marriage.

The only thing that kept me going was the thought of spending time with my children in a peaceful home without the drama and chaos and holy sh!t from hell that was my 10 year marriage. I’m still going through divorce as the family home has to be sold but I have temporary custody of my children and live hundreds of miles away from my ex.
She will do everything to make you regret filing for divorce but like you said, hold your head up high and scrape off whatever is left of your dignity and keep going.
I physically left my husband 8 months ago and I can’t even list the positives that have happened since then. I’m financially better off, I get all kinds of support from organisations ( I’m a student dr) , the mental clarity is on another level. My autoimmune conditions have disappeared, my skin is even glowing I swear. I hear music and I dance because I am happy within.
I’m living a little above the breadline but I have all that I need and I’m content, my anxiety around money is gone. I’m not afraid of what my ex would do with our finances.


At the stage you are in, self doubt is your biggest enemy- don’t look back, and don’t expect your ex to somehow start making adult decisions, in her mind, she imagines you will never leave that’s the reason why she has continued to behave badly, she thinks she calls the shots but from here on you are the only adult and need to take control of the process. You will hurt for a while but it’s temporary.
Take care of yourself, at this time you will need it the most.

[ForeverDad]

I'll comment on the concept of mediation.

Yes, courts do often have mediation at the top of their to-do list, right after setting a temp order primarily for custody and parenting schedule.  Side note: Beware of sitting quiet while your stbEx claims to be the nice homemaker and victim.  Back in 2005 myex had just been arrested for Threat of DV yet in family court she walked out with full custody in the temp order.  Me?  The other court had already gifted me temp possession of the home while it contemplated the charge she faced, family court grudgingly awarded me alternate weekends and and an evening in between.   My advice?  Get the best ("least bad") temp order you can.

Back to mediation.  Since you'll already probably face ordered mediation later, okay to get it out of the way earlier.  However, understand what mediation is... mediation is where two relatively normal people sit down and work out the differences.  Our cases sadly only involve one reasonably normal person.  The other is too entitled and to self-centered and too on-the-warpath to be even the lest bit able to truly negotiate.

So if you face demands that you give away your Must-Have terms, then state "I've tried but mediation has failed."  You'll never Gift Away enough to satisfy your spouse's Black Hole, not unless you've given everything way and left yourself the debts and obligations.

The Bridge
The Backyard Black Hole

It's okay to accept when mediation fails, it failed for most of us.  At least you made a sincere effort to try, yet were alert enough not to sacrifice yourself.

On the other hand many of us did manage to work out a settlement agreement, eventually.  Mine was two years into my divorce on Trial Day.  She finally caved to reality.  Others here found their outcomes sooner.  The key difference is that at the start the ex is too entitled.  Later, often just before a big hearing or court appearance, the ex faces the reality.  The ex is still metaphorically kicking and screaming all the while but it can get done.

[M604V]

Thank you for taking the time Kells and Forever. I do appreciate your attention and concern.

I don’t know, maybe it’s just hope, but there is a part of me that thinks she’ll just go along with it. But I don’t think there’s anything I can actively do to influence that. Like there’s nothing I can say to convince her, although I want to. I want to tell her that I don’t want to take anything from her. That I want to be great co-parents. That I want to try and live in the same town. That I want to give her plenty of time to get herself settled. That I want to be fair and mature and reasonable. I want to say all of those things but she won’t hear it and she sure as hell won’t believe it. So I’ll just keep my mouth shut as far as that stuff is concerned.

In our state we can choose between various types of mediation or go the traditional adversarial route. I intend to make this as non-confrontational as possible. We simply can’t afford to pay attorneys for two years while we fight it out. It’s just not an option. Nor do I want that. I don’t want to spend $100 just to protect $1. No point.

Any advice for how to prepare/protect myself for the battle should this not go well?

[PeteWitsend]

...

Any advice for how to prepare/protect myself for the battle should this not go well?

Well, one thing to consider: it sounds like your wife is particularly concerned with money.  Mine was too.  The cost and expense of a divorce - especially trying to fight for more - really put the kibosh on her appetite for conflict after she got her first monthly bill for legal fees.  She even tried to get me to agree to meet without attorneys and mediate personally to avoid the cost.

Keep in mind that all states have legal guidelines for the things that matter in a divorce, mainly child custody and property division.  Judges have discretion to go against the guidelines, but will typically only do so if one party can show some sort of abuse, infidelity, aggrievement, etc.  And to do so is not cheap; you need to have evidence of it that can be admissible in court, which means extra $$$ on top of the regular monthly legal bills.

It's amusing to get a chance to see the pwBPD get enraged when they realize a judge isn't going to just let them sit there in court and run down their list of reasons why their partner is the worst human being in history... let alone believe them. 

So there's that.  It also seems like if your wife gets what she wants financially, she'll be willing to give on other things (particularly with respect to your kids).  Just don't make any decisions you'll come to regret, or have trouble meeting in a few years if your own situation changes. 

I'll bullet point out some things I learned the hard way, or wished I did differently:

• I should've fought for more custody (and less child support owed/month)
• I should've gotten education rights or at least split that, so that my ex-wife could not move our daughter really far away, albeit still within the county, and affect my time with her
• Expect some stability after the divorce is finalized, and expect it to last about 2 years before some major changes affect things.  But "stability" does not mean good relations, just a regular level of BPD conflict.  She probably won't stop ever badmouthing you to the kids, but that's okay; take the high road.  The kids will lose respect for her over things like this.
• Do not be surprised if your ex runs out and has a new boyfriend immediately
• Do not take things like this quietly; tell your attorney, and get on the phone with them to discuss; don't just send an email and forget about it
• Don't be penny wise and pound foolish in terms of avoiding fights in court now, that will come back to bite you.  And don't think you can just go back to court later; judges HATE re-opening matters, and you'll need to have a good reason to do so.  Even if you do, it's a hurdle to overcome that your ex won't have, allowing her to claim that re-opening the case is just sour grapes on your part.

[kells76]

I don’t know, maybe it’s just hope, but there is a part of me that thinks she’ll just go along with it. But I don’t think there’s anything I can actively do to influence that. Like there’s nothing I can say to convince her, although I want to.

It's possible and it may depend on timing and also on her "currency" (i.e., what is important to her).

There was a brief moment before H and the kids' mom divorced, when she suggested to him that maybe he could have the kids and she would go off and start a new life with her boyfriend (H's former best friend). H likely thought something like "the kids need their mom" and I think pushed for both of them to be involved. He thought that even though he agreed she could have full custody (believing that, because he worked full time, he had to do that), they could still coparent and "put it aside for the kids" and she'd stay cooperative. That did not happen and she ended up badmouthing him, blaming him to the kids, trying to unilaterally deprive him of parenting time, convincing the kids they didn't want to see him... the full 9 yards. Looking back, H does wish that (a) he had taken the opportunity to "encourage" her to start a new life, and (b) he never agreed to anything besides joint custody.

In our example, timing was critical -- she was in the "honeymoon" phase of being rescued and was willing to agree to almost anything to be with her BF.

Her currency also was important. She wanted to feel "free" and "rescued" those would've been the angles H would have needed to use to make sure the kids were taken care of: "Don't worry about the kids; I'll take care of them and I don't want to trap you or stop you from living your best life".

You mention there's part of you that thinks she'll be cooperative. Do you think she may be in a phase like H's kids' mom, where she "just wants to start a new life" or "just wants to be free"? Is her currency more "I'm a victim who wants a new man to rescue me", or is it more entitled/queen-like: "I deserve to truly be myself, I need to find the real me, unencumbered by the kids"?

It may be important to suss out whether your belief that she'll go along with it is based in some clues that she wants to walk away, or is more based in your grief process (versus anything she'd actually do in real life). That difference may impact your strategy.

...

I want to tell her that I don’t want to take anything from her. That I want to be great co-parents. That I want to try and live in the same town. That I want to give her plenty of time to get herself settled. That I want to be fair and mature and reasonable. I want to say all of those things but she won’t hear it and she sure as hell won’t believe it. So I’ll just keep my mouth shut as far as that stuff is concerned.

It's good that you recognize that right now, she isn't going to truly hear or process anything from you. It's fine to have those hopes for your future -- it would be a really wonderful, healthy thing for your kids if those could happen! It's not bad to hope for goodness.

It's also an important example of how to start separating out your legal strategy thread from your emotional processing thread.

Those wishes and desires are part of your emotional processing -- definitely bring those to your therapist (glad to hear you're starting!)... not necessarily your lawyer. Be wary of letting those wishes and desires "drive the car" of your legal strategy. Or, at least, be able to look at each of those desires with a neutral eye (peer feedback here can help).

For example, the desire to live in the same town: for better or for worse, H and I live <1 mile from the kids' mom's house. This has been really helpful for when they (inevitably) forget something at either house, and it makes pickup/dropoff time much easier. SD17 is looking for a new job and has applied somewhere almost exactly between the two houses. However, in the past, it has also meant that the kids demand or threaten "I don't want to spend the night here! I want to sleep at Mom's!" and there's no way to say "Sorry, we're 6 hours away, can't make that happen for you". There are benefits and drawbacks to living in the same town, so as you work through legal stuff with your L, if your L says something like "we can't stop her from moving up to 60 miles away", don't get emotional about that with your L -- work with it rationally vs reacting to a broken dream. Hope that makes sense.

In our state we can choose between various types of mediation or go the traditional adversarial route. I intend to make this as non-confrontational as possible. We simply can’t afford to pay attorneys for two years while we fight it out. It’s just not an option. Nor do I want that. I don’t want to spend $100 just to protect $1. No point.

Any advice for how to prepare/protect myself for the battle should this not go well?

I get it about the money. We had to ask H's parents and my parents for financial help to pay our L. It was humbling but it was the best money we ever spent to protect H's time with the kids.

As much as you don't want to retain a lawyer, I can't recommend enough at minimum doing initial consultations with a couple. This is not the same as retaining a lawyer (paying that lump sum), and initial consultations can often be free or at least low cost for 30-60 minutes. I did one on the phone on my lunch break at work, and he was kind enough to talk with me about our particular situation for probably at least 45 minutes for no charge. The information you get will be invaluable because so much divorce/custody stuff is area/region specific.

Plus -- just because you don't want to hire a L doesn't mean your W won't try to do so. Any L you call will ask for your name and for her name, and that L will then not be able to work for your W (conflict of interest)... even if you don't hire the L or talk much beyond saying Hello. You can use this information strategically by calling "hard nose" L's and chatting briefly -- that means your W can't hire them.

We found our L because I had a coworker who had gone through a divorce, and he actually recommended his ex's L as fair, balanced, and kid-first. So consider asking friends/coworkers for recommendations.

Any advice for how to prepare/protect myself for the battle should this not go well?

Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

Assume she'll dysregulate and escalate.

Focus on your kids' well-being first, putting feelings of "but I have to be fair to W" behind those.

Lots to talk about -- hope this is a good start;

kells76

[livednlearned]

Any advice for how to prepare/protect myself for the battle should this not go well?

Do you think she's primarily BPD? Or does she have characteristics of high-conflict personality (HCP), which includes persuasive blaming, recruiting negative advocates, having a target of blame. People can have BPD and not be HCP. Whereas HCPs are said to have a PD of some type.

One thing that would concern me is that she shoved you and you shoved back.

Any chance that could happen again?

The cases on this board that tend to be the messiest either involved DV or allegations of DV.

[PeteWitsend]

One thing to add: everyone involved - other than you and your kids - will have zero sympathy for any issues you'll encounter with custody as the non-primary custodian.

What I mean by that, is that typically both parents always get some custody rights to the kids (i.e. "joint custody.")  However, one parent may get more (the "primary custodian"), and there are also other rights (to medical care, choice of school, psychological care, etc.) that can be held individually or jointly. 

The primary custodial parent usually gets child support payments, and that may be on a sliding scale depending how much time they get. 

I didn't fight for more time because I got some bad legal advice about this. 

My daughter's counselor warned me about the 2 year thing I mentioned above, namely that after 2 years post divorce, expect to see some major changes that affect the arrangement.  Well almost exactly 2 years later, my ex- moved to the very edge of the county we had listed as our county of residence (which established residential limitations on us for the custody arrangement).  Whereas before, we lived about 10 mins away from eachother, and I could leave work on my custody days, pick up my D, and maybe miss 20 minutes of time, now I had a 45 min drive each way, PLUS the time spent in pick-up/drop-off lines at her school. 

So it seriously cut into my time with my daughter.  Guess how many other people, including the court cared?  ZERO.  I had to sue again (still ongoing 3 years later), and while I've gotten some minor (temporary) concessions that made the arrangement more tolerable, it's cost a lot of money. 

[PeteWitsend]

One thing to add: everyone involved - other than you and your kids - will have zero sympathy for any issues you'll encounter with custody as the non-primary custodian.

What I mean by that, is that typically both parents always get some custody rights to the kids (i.e. "joint custody.")  However, one parent may get more (the "primary custodian"), and there are also other rights (to medical care, choice of school, psychological care, etc.) that can be held individually or jointly. 

The primary custodial parent usually gets child support payments, and that may be on a sliding scale depending how much time they get. 

I didn't fight for more time because I got some bad legal advice about this. 

My daughter's counselor warned me about the 2 year thing I mentioned above, namely that after 2 years post divorce, expect to see some major changes that affect the arrangement.  Well almost exactly 2 years later, my ex- moved to the very edge of the county we had listed as our county of residence (which established residential limitations on us for the custody arrangement).  Whereas before, we lived about 10 mins away from eachother, and I could leave work on my custody days, pick up my D, and maybe miss 20 minutes of time, now I had a 45 min drive each way, PLUS the time spent in pick-up/drop-off lines at her school. 

So it seriously cut into my time with my daughter.  Guess how many other people, including the court cared?  ZERO.  I had to sue again (still ongoing 3 years later), and while I've gotten some minor (temporary) concessions that made the arrangement more tolerable, it's cost a lot of money. 

To tie this all together, you should consider fighting for joint custody on these things.  YES, it will mean you'll be forced to make some decisions with your ex, ideally with a tie-breaker specified, like mediation, or something else like that.  But that's better than giving her the rights to make decisions that affect your kids, and having to go to court to challenge them.  Especially if she's likely to use those rights to screw with you.  And she will not put your kids best interests above her own wants, if she feels like screwing with you.

Finally, don't expect to get anything in return for any concessions you make, unless they're in writing at the time and being recorded by a judge or mediator, i.e. "I will give you X for Y" is fine, but don't think "I've allowed her an extra day of vacation with the kids, so surely she'll allow me to have one next time I ask".

And that's okay.  Remember to focus on the material results for you and your kids; don't try to make her happy in the divorce, or even spare her feelings.  Get the results you and your kids need first, and let her stew.  She's going to hate you and be miserable either way. 

[PeteWitsend]

to be clear, in my first sentence of that last post, I meant... joint custody if you can't get primary or sole custody of an issue (I hate that there's no more edit button on this site!)

For example, if you can't get primary custody or sole decision making over something, agree to joint.  And stand up for yourself, even if your attorney isn't.

One thing I did save myself from, was limiting our residency requirement to two counties: the suburban one we lived in, and the neighboring one our major metropolitan area is located in.  My ex wanted the entire 6 county region. 

At mediation, I did a quick check, and realized this could easily result in a 100 mile trip (50 each way) and 3 hours total just to pick up my daughter on school nights, or get her to school in the morning on nights I had custody.  Neither the mediator or my attorney seemed concerned.  I had to fight for that. 

[ForeverDad]

Don't be penny wise and pound foolish in terms of avoiding fights in court now, that will come back to bite you.  And don't think you can just go back to court later; judges HATE re-opening matters, and you'll need to have a good reason to do so.  Even if you do, it's a hurdle to overcome that your ex won't have, allowing her to claim that re-opening the case is just sour grapes on your part.

It is always more costly to agree to something now expecting to "fix" it later.  And it might not even be possible to undo all the mistakes.

In my case the Custody Evaluator, lawyers and magistrate all expected us to settle on Shared Parenting, a concept where nearly everything is split equally between the parents.  My ex had a very favorable temp order (where mothers in my area always got default preference) where she had both temp custody and temp majority time.  No way was she going to easily give all that up.  It took two years to work my way through the required steps to get to a trial (Mediation attempt, Parenting Investigation by court's counselor, expensive in-depth Custody Evaluation and Settlement conference attempt).  Finally on Trial Day I arrived and was greeted with the news she was finally ready to settle.  I knew the difficulties with equal term on parenting so instead of allowing her to continue as "Residential Parent for School Purposes" - which I'm sure court would have allowed since someone has to be Residential Parent - I stated I had one condition, that I would be the Residential Parent.  or we would proceed with the trial.  After tears and begging, I walked out with equal everything and Residential Parent.

Son had been in kindergarten with just less than three months to the end of the school year.  School was agreeable for him to remain in her school until the school year ended.  I got a call several weeks later that ex had created enough incidents that the board gave me one day to register him in my nearby school district.  If I hadn't become RP then her school would have been stuck with her.  (And I might have had to follow my child as she moved around the area.)

As PeteWitsend mentioned, I too had continuing quandaries with my ex's obstructions and exchange games.  About the two year mark I did go to court again seeking Custody and majority time, but I had an additional hurdle first.  I had not known that I first had to get the court's approval.  That involved seeking a declaration of substantive Change of Circumstances.  Again, that the wisdom for getting the best (or "least bad") order, both in the initial temp order and later the final decree.

For example, if you can't get primary custody or sole decision making over something, agree to joint.  And stand up for yourself, even if your attorney isn't.

At mediation, {on too many issues} ... Neither the mediator or my attorney seemed concerned.  I had to fight for that.

Each state has slightly different laws and varying phrases.  Your lawyer can advise.  While joint sounds workable, you can expect your ex to disagree often, leaving you spinning your wheels.  That's why, if you can't get primary or full whatever, then at least try to get an edge better than your sabotaging or uncooperative ex.  Ask whether Decision Making or Tie Breaker status is possible.  Essentially it avoids a disagreement causing inaction for months until it get addressed legally.  It means you would get to proceed while the ex could always take it to court afterward.

Another possibility is to split some custody matters.  For example, you could have schooling and counseling while ex has dental or other things less crucial to the kids over the years.

For court and lawyers and other professionals involved, this is their job.  More or less, they'll make a decent effort.  But this is your life, your children.  This is your future and your children's future.  It deserves your best effort, even though it will often feel like an uphill struggle.

[ForeverDad]

Based on the stories told here in peer support - an unscientific summary of course since likely the more severe cases end up with people searching longer until they've found us - there are some mothers who care more for their adult relationships (their latest love) than their children.  But by far the majority of the ones posting on our Separating and Divorcing board report their exes are parenting as though the kids were extensions of themselves.  That's not normal or healthy but it is what it is.  Sometime even these overly possessive and controlling mothers do get sidetracked with a new adult relationship, for a while, so if your case is like that, then seek as much parenting as you can because that new relationship may fail all too soon and then your ex is back to being more uncooperative and more sabotaging.

[PeteWitsend]

... there are some mothers who care more for their adult relationships (their latest love) than their children.  But by far the majority of the ones posting on our Separating and Divorcing board report their exes are parenting as though the kids were extensions of themselves.  That's not normal or healthy but it is what it is.  Sometime even these overly possessive and controlling mothers do get sidetracked with a new adult relationship, for a while, so if your case is like that, then seek as much parenting as you can because that new relationship may fail all too soon and then your ex is back to being more uncooperative and more sabotaging.

Just playing amateur psychologist for a sec: since attachment issues in relationships are a big part of BPD, I kinda figure in most cases BPD moms would care more for their adult relationships than their kids.  Unless of course they've "parentified" their kids or one of their kids and are using them for emotional support, then the kids absolutely need to be around as much as possible.

That's been consistent with my experience.  My ex's priorities seem to be 1) money & 2) maintaining her post-divorce relationship, and only after those are met,  3) taking care of our D, in that order. 

In my experience, my ex rushed back into a relationship right away (still going surprisingly, but he's dependent on her financially... interesting dynamic), and hasn't been overly difficult about custody issues since then, as long as they don't interfere with her personal time or money.  She's fought me on the 50/50 custody, but her attorney hinted that she'd be willing to give on custody as long as I keep paying max child support (of course I can't afford to do that if I have to arrange for after school care more often).