Closing Out All the Brokenness

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hey family!  I haven't updated in a couple of months, but I completed a no-fault divorce about 5 weeks ago and I'm working on selling the house...it should be on the market this week.  As I fixed odds/ends and cleared out decades of clutter, it really felt somehow therapeutic towards starting a new chapter.  My wife promised to help and we'd split profits 50/50, but then made excuse after excuse why she didn't have to.  I'm still wondering why I shot myself in the foot yet again by being the bigger person, but I'll abide by my word anyway because it's the right thing to do.

Lately, my anger and resentment has returned.  My kids take turns being mad at me over something my ex randomly tells them (her versions of me based on mental illness), and I realize that they only way they'll see the truth is by my wife breaking their hearts like she broke mine.  It's already started to some extent and the love/compassion I've carried over the past 18+ months for my ex is now turning to hate...when is enough actually enough?

For example, my youngest kid (non-BPD) wanted a pair of rocking chairs on our back porch for a friend.  No problem- I've told her a million times to take anything she wants.  But my ex-wife told her that I'd probably sell them to her at a decent price, and then my ex called to get me to commit to an amount.  I said I'd talk to my daughter directly and evidently that made the ex mad, because now my daughter is not talking to me.  Why?  I have no earthly idea what my ex might have made up.  But stuff like this has happened consistently for the past 18 months and I've reached a tipping point.

With the house going on the market, I'll have to find somewhere else to live soon and the only reason I'd stay in this area is my  daughter and my young grandson (grandchild #2 arrives in 6-8 weeks!).  But with my ex living with her, I never get to see my kid/grandkid and I'm thinking about moving out of the area.  My daughter actually said that if I moved to a coastal town, I'd probably see her more since she'd spend summers and holidays with me.  So now I'm genuinely considering a town anywhere from Daytona Beach, Florida all the way up to Wilmington, NC.

Does stuff like this ever take a turn?  I'm just at a loss for what to do next.  My kid is close to kicking her out at times for never being around, and last week my daughter said that she felt like the parent of my ex.  It creates conflict/drama and when I tell my daughter what I said, it forces my kid to take sides since my wife has a completely different story.  I can't even mention mental health with my daughter either without her getting angry, because she can't see it (even though she complains about her mom's symptoms daily).

Should I try to talk to my ex more in-depth about this kind of stuff, or do I just let it go and accept that I'll never be highly involved in my grandkids lives (until she completely burns the relationship with our daughter)?  Either way it stinks.

[Pook075]

Hey family!  I haven't updated in a couple of months, but I completed a no-fault divorce about 5 weeks ago and I'm working on selling the house...it should be on the market this week.  As I fixed odds/ends and cleared out decades of clutter, it really felt somehow therapeutic towards starting a new chapter.  My wife promised to help and we'd split profits 50/50, but then made excuse after excuse why she didn't have to.  I'm still wondering why I shot myself in the foot yet again by being the bigger person, but I'll abide by my word anyway because it's the right thing to do.

Lately, my anger and resentment has returned.  My kids take turns being mad at me over something my ex randomly tells them (her versions of me based on mental illness), and I realize that they only way they'll see the truth is by my wife breaking their hearts like she broke mine.  It's already started to some extent and the love/compassion I've carried over the past 18+ months for my ex is now turning to hate...when is enough actually enough?

For example, my youngest kid (non-BPD) wanted a pair of rocking chairs on our back porch for a friend.  No problem- I've told her a million times to take anything she wants.  But my ex-wife told her that I'd probably sell them to her at a decent price, and then my ex called to get me to commit to an amount.  I said I'd talk to my daughter directly and evidently that made the ex mad, because now my daughter is not talking to me.  Why?  I have no earthly idea what my ex might have made up.  But stuff like this has happened consistently for the past 18 months and I've reached a tipping point.

With the house going on the market, I'll have to find somewhere else to live soon and the only reason I'd stay in this area is my  daughter and my young grandson (grandchild #2 arrives in 6-8 weeks!).  But with my ex living with her, I never get to see my kid/grandkid and I'm thinking about moving out of the area.  My daughter actually said that if I moved to a coastal town, I'd probably see her more since she'd spend summers and holidays with me.  So now I'm genuinely considering a town anywhere from Daytona Beach, Florida all the way up to Wilmington, NC.

Does stuff like this ever take a turn?  I'm just at a loss for what to do next.  My kid is close to kicking her out at times for never being around, and last week my daughter said that she felt like the parent of my ex.  It creates conflict/drama and when I tell my daughter what I said, it forces my kid to take sides since my wife has a completely different story.  I can't even mention mental health with my daughter either without her getting angry, because she can't see it (even though she complains about her mom's symptoms daily).

Should I try to talk to my ex more in-depth about this kind of stuff, or do I just let it go and accept that I'll never be highly involved in my grandkids lives (until she completely burns the relationship with our daughter)?  Either way it stinks.

[SinisterComplex]

Hey family!  I haven't updated in a couple of months, but I completed a no-fault divorce about 5 weeks ago and I'm working on selling the house...it should be on the market this week.  As I fixed odds/ends and cleared out decades of clutter, it really felt somehow therapeutic towards starting a new chapter.  My wife promised to help and we'd split profits 50/50, but then made excuse after excuse why she didn't have to.  I'm still wondering why I shot myself in the foot yet again by being the bigger person, but I'll abide by my word anyway because it's the right thing to do.

Lately, my anger and resentment has returned.  My kids take turns being mad at me over something my ex randomly tells them (her versions of me based on mental illness), and I realize that they only way they'll see the truth is by my wife breaking their hearts like she broke mine.  It's already started to some extent and the love/compassion I've carried over the past 18+ months for my ex is now turning to hate...when is enough actually enough?

For example, my youngest kid (non-BPD) wanted a pair of rocking chairs on our back porch for a friend.  No problem- I've told her a million times to take anything she wants.  But my ex-wife told her that I'd probably sell them to her at a decent price, and then my ex called to get me to commit to an amount.  I said I'd talk to my daughter directly and evidently that made the ex mad, because now my daughter is not talking to me.  Why?  I have no earthly idea what my ex might have made up.  But stuff like this has happened consistently for the past 18 months and I've reached a tipping point.

With the house going on the market, I'll have to find somewhere else to live soon and the only reason I'd stay in this area is my  daughter and my young grandson (grandchild #2 arrives in 6-8 weeks!).  But with my ex living with her, I never get to see my kid/grandkid and I'm thinking about moving out of the area.  My daughter actually said that if I moved to a coastal town, I'd probably see her more since she'd spend summers and holidays with me.  So now I'm genuinely considering a town anywhere from Daytona Beach, Florida all the way up to Wilmington, NC.

Does stuff like this ever take a turn?  I'm just at a loss for what to do next.  My kid is close to kicking her out at times for never being around, and last week my daughter said that she felt like the parent of my ex.  It creates conflict/drama and when I tell my daughter what I said, it forces my kid to take sides since my wife has a completely different story.  I can't even mention mental health with my daughter either without her getting angry, because she can't see it (even though she complains about her mom's symptoms daily).

Should I try to talk to my ex more in-depth about this kind of stuff, or do I just let it go and accept that I'll never be highly involved in my grandkids lives (until she completely burns the relationship with our daughter)?  Either way it stinks.

My friend talking to your ex more about this will be a zero sum game. No good will come of it. As for not being involved in your grand kid's lives that is not on you. You want to be there for them and be involved. However, it isn't something you have control over. Sadly, this is still a scenario where you have to do what is best for you. There is a lot you want to change but you cannot as it is not up to you. All you can do is move forward and be the best version of yourself. In time you may see your grand kids more than you expect. Keep a positive outlook to it.

Hey you're a parent so I am not telling you what to do with your own children, but perhaps make it a point when speaking to your children that you will not be discussing their mother. Keep the conversations about them. 

Continue to be consistent and strive to be the best for YOU and let your children see the best you. This is where I think a less is more will end up working in your favor.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Notwendy]

Pook- as a an adult child of a BPD mother, I can say- they have their own relationship with their mother to work out. I commend you for protecting them as much as you can, but it's not possible to entirely smooth this one out. They are adults now and this appears to be a triangle. Now that you are divorced from your ex, it doesn't have to be.

Yes, they will learn from experience with their mother- just as you did. BPD affects all relationships.

About your feelings- feelings in themselves are not wrong, or bad. We feel what we feel. Where we make ethical choices is about how we act on them. You've been focused on the drama in the relationship and the process of dissolving it- and now, with some space in your thinking- you are possibly feeling the emotions you didn't focus on- your anger and resentment. What makes you a good person is that you aren't acting out on them by doing something destructive. But your emotions are telling you something- usually to pay attention to your own needs.

What I have seen is that my mother's BPD behaviors increase during times of stress or change. It makes sense that if these are coping behaviors- they increase at these times. Some stressors are for the better, like moving to a new area. Divorce is a stressor- even if it's for the better.

I see some similarities in your wife's behavior to when my father passed away. I think my mother felt out of control and so she controlled what she could- his possesions, some of which were sentimental to me. At first, she refused to let me have them. It doesn't make sense to you that your ex would intervene over some chairs but my mother did something similar over items of little resale value but of large sentimental value to me. I think it's about feeling out of control and so controlling what they can.

Some of her family and friends didn't speak to me at the time. I had no idea what she had said to them, or to my father. She's also said some things to me about him. I told her I won't discuss him with her anymore.

Does stuff like this ever take a turn? In my situation- BPD mother's behavior is a challenge however, people in her circle have had their own experiences with her and have become more aware of her issues.

It can take a turn for you though. Your children can have their own relationship with her- and their own separate relationship with you. It doesn't have to be a triangle now. You have put a lot of energy into your relationship with your ex. Now you can shift focus- first to yourself- recover emotionally from this relationship. Establish your own separate space. A coastal area sounds wonderful and if your children would visit you there, that sounds like an idea to explore. You can continue to build on your relationship with your children.

[CC43]

Pook, change is hard for everyone and especially those with BPD. Your ex might be acting out because of that.

I think that now you can focus on you and embrace joy in this next phase. If a coastal home appeals to you, I’d say go for it. You are a positive magnetic force, and eventually your children and grandchildren will feel that and be drawn to you.

You need not be sucked into the drama stirred up by your ex. That’s what you’d advise others on this site, right?  But it’s natural to feel conflicted, you’re human after all, and there’s lots to unpack. I just hope you unpack in your dream home. You deserve it.

[Kashi]

I was also stuck with fixing up a house to sell.  If they don't feel like doing something they dig their little heels in, and you can't budge them.

The way I handled that is told myself keep moving forward despite what obstacles they like to put in the way.

Don't think of the injustice you are facing.   Think beyond it.

I didn't have kids so I feel for you.   That must be such a difficult situation.

Perhaps using the same method don't get bogged down in the detail and keep moving forward and eventually people will see it for what it is.   You just hold your ground.  Stay on message.  Make the message simple.  The more complicated the message the more it can be embellished.  You end up trying to fight for your integrity and it is frustrating.   If my ex accused me of something I started to not it on but turn it around.  I would say to her maybe that is what you think, maybe that is what you feel, no I'm not threating you, are you threating me.  I would get silence and I hear her brain ticking over trying to process it.

You are no good to yourself or anyone else if you are not out of her life and reclaiming yours.

I think kids want to hear they are loved and if they need you, that you will be there.   They want to know you are interested in them.   Care about their lives.  Put aside some time just for them.  She can't give them that can she.  Just show you love them and they will know. 

[EyesUp]

Hey Pook,

My D was just over 2 years ago. When my ex moved out, she abandoned some of her stuff, and damaged things like a light fixture and a screen door in the process. Like many other things during the marriage, I had to let it go.

In my case, my ex-FIL has been a good model for how to comment to my kids re: my ex, if necessary.  I've known my ex-FIL for 25 years, so I had a lot of time to observe how he  commented on my ex-MIL to my ex, over the years...   they were divorced before I met my ex.

He was like a zen master who had already internalized BIFF, etc., when commenting on his ex-wife to his daughter.  I think the worst think I ever heard him say was, "well, you know what your mother can be like..."

i.e., he empathized, while acknowledging that her behavior could be troubling, irritating, give it a name. 

Even that much acknowledgement was surprising because he was usually 100% beyond reproach when commenting on his ex, which he would usually avoid entirely. 

I observed that his D - my ex - responded well to this. He sort of left her wanting more, but feeling validated and acknowledged, like he was on her side.  It's a high bar...

Good luck with the house and the move. 

PS, don't buy a house on the beach for your D - Pick the right place for you!  If that happens to be on the beach, so be it.