What is wrong with admitting to ourselves that maybe we are unstable?

[PDQuick]

I am not posting this to divide bpdfamily. Nor am I wanting to create hate and discontent. I am sure that some of you will not like what I have to say here. But if I can get just one person thinking, then it will be all worth it.

I have not been here relatively long. I have read most of the posts here, actually too many. It is taking up way too much time, but I feel it has helped me immensly. I have always wondered if I had BPD or was to blame in my failed relationship. My ex had me convinced. I used to scream and yell at her, spy, try my hand a little at manipulation to finally get a say in our dysfunctionship. I had lost all respect for her, trust for her, good intentions for her, and sympathy for her. And I stayed in it. I stayed for way too long. Long enough for me to hit bottom, become disallusioned and give up hope. Then after it was over, I yearned to be back with her.

I came here because I was hurting like no other hurt had been felt before. I looked to you, my friends, bpdfamilyies. You came through loud and clear. You all took me in and treated me better in one posting than my ex treated me in 13 years. You will never understand how much I truly appreciate you for this. I read your stories and related to alot of them. I posted, and you replied, and had great things to say and great wisdom to share.

This whole LAGRIZZLY and TRUE-NON thing seemed to divide you all, one on his side, one on hers. And it got me thinking. What if we all have played some dysfunctional part in our own relationships? It isnt black or white. What if we all, in our own way is damaged? I have seen a few people say that it was all the SO or ex's fault.

Truth is, in at least my case, is that I have issues. No I'm not proud of them, but you know, all of us do or else we wouldnt be here. We wouldnt have let our ex's walk all over us like they did. We read in horror some of the threads here and silently say to ourselves that we would not have let that happen. But we did. We think that if we can recognize the signs of a BPD, that next time it wont happen to us, but, in some cases it has. Maybe, just maybe, there is a deep underlying situation that makes us perfect prey for these types. I know I am perfect prey. That is probably why re-engaging is so effective. I understand the love factor, but why love someone else when you dont love yourself enough to stop this behaviour.

I think that if we focus on our mental happiness, and health, the rest of it will take care of itself. No re-engaging will work if we learn to set boundaries, and enforce them. I cannot set boundaries yet. I dont think I am worth it yet, but I know I will be. The fear of rejection wont work if we work on our self esteem. The blame game wont be significant if we all learn that we all made decisions that put us right where we were and we decided to stay there, I havent seen one posting of a gun to anyones head. Our pain will go away if we learn to love ourselves and respect ourselves. Its kinda like taking care of a flower. The things that are important in the relationship of me and a flower is me, and the flower. I want to see the flower grow and become beautiful. But if I dont take care of me and something happens to me, who will water the flower? See how that works, it takes two people in a relationship. If one is ill, and cant take care of the other, one will surely die. If both are ill, both will wither away, but if both are fit, both will flourish. Its not called a singleship, its a relationship.

I know that we are all kind, compassionate, loving people. I am one of them. I have been apart from my ex for exactly one month today. I have been in NC for one week tomorrow. Until last week, I professed my undying love for her. I convinced myself that I loved her. But with alot of soul searching, I was in love with the good times. The way she made me feel when things were good. I was needing the wrong thing from her. I wasnt in love with the manipulating, lying, cheating, stealing, raging btch-a-holic that I knew all too well. But i thought I was.

All of these green highlighted phrases, if you agreed or related to any of them, I think you need to do some soul searching. Its a lot more promising to investigate what made us nons fall into this behavior than it is to try to understand what our exs were thinking. We know they are mentall ill. Only thing is that, we can fix ourselves in a much shorter time than we can fix them. Truth is, we cant fix them. We have no control over them, all we can do is control ourselves. Not to mention the fact that if we fix ourselves, and understand ourselves, we have alot better chance of being happy for the rest of our lives. And really, my friends, isnt that the real goal here?

Thanks for letting me vent

[Joshua]

My two cents is that there's NOTHING wrong with admitting to ourselves that we might be unstable. In fact, I personally strongly encourage every person who can afford it to go to therapy for at least a few sessions. Best case scenario is that your T will tell you you don't have a need to be there. Worst case? You do- and in THAT case you're right where you need to be, anyway.

I think it's a matter of... connotation, if you will. This society has colored those in therapy to be lunatics who can't be trusted with goldfish. My exBPh refused therapy... because his non-repentant pedophile father was in therapy and he didn't want to be able to be associated with him in that way at all. His fear was that people would think he was in therapy because HE raped little girls, too.

We, as a society, really have to get past that, imo...

[johnfl]

Hit the post button too soon...as I was saying.. :P

BP,

Part of getting out of the mess of a dysfunctionship (and I like that term) is to see reality.    There are 2 people, abuser and the abused. True, in order for either to get "healthy" either one has to #1 look at what is going.  I call this facing reality, getting real with yourself.  Most people who are here realize that there IS something wrong with them.  Sure, some will say its the exes fault.  However I think most of us really know we have to work on ourselves and our self-esteem issues.   (See the title of this message board, WOU)

When each of us is diagnosing our situation on these pages, we are going to be expressing what has happened to us b'c we really need to see how ridiculously impossible the relationship was/is.  You know, we all need that validation.  And this is where you hear the lines of the stories matching up, sounding like one in the same over and over...It helps us wake up.  This is just part of the process ans tantamount.  There are countless threads of what positive things to do, how to move on, what to do for oneself.  There is a ton of personal acceptance here. 

Once we have laid the cards on the table and see what has been going on, we have a choice.  We can stay in denial, or look at ourselves and make changes.  These changes require us to understand and talk about everything we have been through so that we don't repeat the same follies.  This is the hardest thing for me.  And I should know after having my lot with 4 N/BPDs.  I mean if I told you some of the things I endured, you would be surprised.  If I didn't rehash these and look at the partner I was choosing, I would be totally missing what I was doing.

Keep in mind that you are doing wonderful and this place needs encouraging stories like yours.  Yes focusing on our part and respecting ourselves is absolutely AS important and maybe more important than anything.  Also, realize that this is a process and you are really making a jolt forward today.  Tomorrow, you may have a low.  Believe me on this one.  I remember thinking a few weeks ago that I was just going to do this or that and recovery was a cinch.  It should be a good thing and will be however, it is a process with good and bad days...However enlightened you are one day, grief can rear its head out of the corner without warning...And it will force you to work through an issue.  Hell, look at my nightmares.  They are whacked...THATS IN ME.  I could just say...I am focusing on my issues, while my sub conscious is still processing  my stay in OZ. 

Realize that what you are saying about just making a decision to focus on ourselves seems like an automatic answer and obvious one, it will not always be that easy...parts of the relationship are emnbedded and recovery requires working on them and guiding ourselves as we make sense of what we have been through.  Guiding ourselves to a better life where we are able to set boundaries and know what good for ourselves.

I sure am glad you are doing well and if anything please see my post as wanting to help you with your process as I think you will have some tough days like we all do.  And when you have one of those bad days, it will be ok to rethink or bring up the past, if it helps you move forward.

[thomaso61]

We are all human and all have our own weaknesses and fallabilities(spelling?). After my relationship ended with my BPDwife, I sought therapy. As a matter of fact, I am setting an appointment to see her for the 6th time. I asked her to give me my diagnosis. She said I suffered from grief, situational depression, etc...I had a nervous breakdown. I have never been through anything like that. I blame it on trying to make heads or tails of a totally insane relationship and not even knowing I was dealing with a form of insanity. Bizarre...isn't it?  

Personally, I believe we all have a moral compass and what we think could or should be an ideal type of relationship. However, what's normal, right? I just know for me there was lack of two way emotional exchange with my BPDwife. Now that I'm out I see just how very one sided it truly was. That is not normal. Relationships are not a one way street where one partner constantly gives and gives and gives. Sure, we all have our issues, no one is perfect. Otherwise, we might qualify for sainthood. We're human and prone to the "human condition." We all have faults.

When your with a BPD, trying to make sense of the senseless of what and why certain things transpired in your relationship will keep your mind in a tailspin. I've tried. I still can't quite put my mind around it yet. As more time lapses, it becomes clearer and clearer. Her motives, wants and needs. Her lack of responses to heartfelt emails. Why? The only answer is a form of mental illness.

If you want to call me unstable or crazy, that's fine with me. We're all a little nuts. It's what makes us human.    

[johnfl]

"I still can't quite put my mind around it yet. As more time lapses, it becomes clearer and clearer. Her motives, wants and needs. Her lack of responses to heartfelt emails. Why? The only answer is a form of mental illness.

If you want to call me unstable or crazy, that's fine with me. We're all a little nuts. It's what makes us human"

Tom,

I wanted to take a quote from your post and elaborate on it.  As I mentioned b4, I have spent several years in unhealthy relationships...I'd always go back b'c I thought it was just normal or that it was normal for me.  Kind of like when all you know is dysfunctional relationships with woman, just WHAT do you benchmark it against?  Finding bpdfamily and realizing that there was a better way, probably saved me countless hours of pain.  Part of growing really IS making sense of what we were doing and taking a clear look at ourselves.  This isn't self-blaming or pitying; Well, I don't see a lot of that here.  Its sharing experiences with each other, learning from others, seeing how, from those that have been through it, that we feel ok, a little better and learn we do have better options.  To say its confusing is an understatement.  Like the lack of responses to your emails...I recently learned that with a BNPD, they will learn to withhold, that which you seek...hence we give our power to the other side...It shouldn't be about "power" But seeing that for what it is, does allow us to move forward, as you are clearly doing.

[thomaso61]

The one huge issue about myself that I've come away with through this entire experience was my desire to fix. I will never try and be a fixer again. I've learned to spot certain red flags when conversing to someone of the opposite sex. If it involves some form of fixing I find myself just keeping my mouth shut!

My "T" said it may stem from being ACOA. (Adult Child of Alcoholics) Being in the medical field doesn't help much either. I fix at work.

Tom 

[Leo]

who spent the money ,who controlled it who let them ,not that you can stop anyone from doing as they please. But if a divorce by itself takes a year to recover iIl give this twice as long and hope it isn,t longer,people fall out of love all the time and part but 90% is high.Mine was lovable she wasnt always a monster just a control freak and wham in a fairly brief time it got worst by the month?TodayI had to call  abought sons doctor trip she sounded like her old self saying she was sick.a flu. no i couldnt be hitting on all eight cylinders now id be a sociopath. a mess but not that. just dont wont to get caught up in any part of healing.valetnies day sucked so did new years xmas dont even wanna talk to people work and home.anxiety, depression 40mg paxil 4.5 x 1.o xanax a day benydrill to sleep. wake upall night realiseing its real.,its over the re-engagement want fix it nc not  with join custody even without one at home. join t parents then joint granparents . A hereditary thing children grandchildren its allot to bear bound to make you a little crazey  ,      par for course.

[PDQuick]

Damn wrote a long reply and something happened.

Anyway, thanks Autumn, Thomas, and John, just a few points that I want to make.

I came here to bpdfamily thinking that I was right and she was wrong. It never occured to me that maybe, I had a part in all of this. I knew she needed help. But in the back of my mind, she had convinced me that I was the one to blame. After reflecting on my actions, the stalking, spying...I beleived that she was right. I even posted a thread here that read Am I BPD? I waited in horror for the first post. Then felt validated as each post there after came in. There was a certain fear that I needed help. I was uneasy with that. Then the realization came that I was addicted to her. OH MY GOD. I am deranged. I was scared crapless. Now I knew that I needed help. And it carries a dark cloud over it with my thinking and with others thinking...look at him, going to the shrink again...he is crazy.

Then the whole grizzly thing happened. It divided this nook up. He was right, no she was. The truth is, they were both f'ed up in their dysfunctionship. Both had equal parts, as they both made conscience decisions to stay in them. I, for one, will say that I respect grizzly for helping people here, but that is besides the point. What i took away from the whole thing was that people were not realizing that we all need help. We are all to blame for our own roles in the Dance. It doesnt mean that we are not good people, it just means that we have trouble with certain aspects in our lives. And its ok. Its ok. Its ok. At least we can fix our trials and tribulations. We are unlike the BPD's we so desperately want away from. They cant be fixed. We have a way out. And if that means that we have to admit to ourselves that we have a problem, or a weakness, ITS OK. There is nothing wrong with it. I dont know, its a dangerous dance that we are in with our dysfunctionmates, and I hate that all of us are hurting. I want each and every one of us to find what we are looking for...peace and true happiness. We all deserve it especially after the burden of what we have had to endure. I just want to inspire so inward thinking in each one of us and also say that if you do look inside and you truly need some help that its ok. Who cares what this world has conditioned us to think about therapy. its a lot better to need it, seek it and get it, than to continue living in the respective hell that we have resided in.

[Bdawn]

I had a hard time getting my head around the idea that I might just have some issues of my own to work on. When I first came here I knew I put up with crap I shouldn't of put up with, but I figured that my only fault lied in the fact that I loved my exp soo much. When people would encourage me to look inside of myself and work on my own problems I didn't really disagree with them, it just kind of whizzed over my head. I was hurt, I was a victim, I wanted my ex back and I wanted to fix him. If I could do that then everything would be just fine.

I was out of my bp relationship for quite a while and I had spent some significant time in great pain before I truly had my light bulb moment. At some point I realized that the excruciating and everlasting pain I was experiencing was way out of whack to the actual events leading up to it. And then I knew that this pain was coming from a place deep inside me that maybe didn't even have all that much to do with my exbp. Maybe he unleashed it in some way, opened the floodgates on something that had been dammed up for a long time, but he wasn't the sole cause of it. Wow! That was a real eyeopener for me.

And yes I was dysfunctional in my bp relationship. I was addicted and the last couple of times we hooked up, I intiated it. I wasn't shocked at all to learn that lagrizzly had in fact been making contact with his ex because I did the same sht. When I was in contact I would just kind of lay low here on bpdfamily and not participate much because I knew I was doing something bad for myself, then when I couldn't contain it anymore I would come here and confess. I was one of those really slow learners and I know it made my family feel sick at times to see me continue to expose myself to my addiction. It made me feel sick too.

Now I have no problem coming here and admitting my issues. I'm not saying I'm proud of my flaws but it's a relief to finally let it all out into the light of day and deal with reality. Sucks to live in denial, to have to get up every day and put on that mask of normalcy so that no one guesses that I might be somewhat troubled, especially sucks that I spent so many years hiding from myself by getting involved with toxic people so that the focus would be on them and I wouldn't be exposed. This is so much better.

[geroldmodel]

The one huge issue about myself that I've come away with through this entire experience was my desire to fix. I will never try and be a fixer again. I've learned to spot certain red flags when conversing to someone of the opposite sex. If it involves some form of fixing I find myself just keeping my mouth shut!

My "T" said it may stem from being ACOA. (Adult Child of Alcoholics) Being in the medical field doesn't help much either. I fix at work.

Same here I am a Fixer...

Both personal as professional.

My parents are very normal people. Not alcoholics.

Yes. My mother is a fixer too.

I do not think being a fixer is wrong.

This whole co-dependence stuff is IMHO overrated.

and I am not the only one who has that opinion.

There are psychologists who claim the same.

What IS wrong with fixing

is getting into a emotional relationship with

someone who NEEDS fixing and us not knowing

where to draw the line where to STOP TRYING TO FIX everything.

[PDQuick]

Good morning geroldmodel, There is nothing wrong with fixing, if the subject realizes a problem, and diagnoses says they can be fixed. I am a fixer too, by trade and by design.

I forget who laid the voo doo on me above about good days and bad. Today is my 36th birthday. and what did I get? A nightful of dreams about her and a morning of sorrow. Why is this process so hard? And why, if we understand, truly understand, is it so hard to let go of our love and yearning? I will get through this day, but I was hoping for a much better start.

[garyw]

Hi BPDDummy and Happy Birthday

I go along with Autum 100%. I think going to a T should be looked at like going to a MD for a physical once or twice a year.

Why should we assume that that one organ (our brain) dosen't need checked up on like anyother organ we have...seems rather simple to me.

As far as splitting bpdfamily, No need to even worry about that.

The Nook is too big and its goal too large for a few little things to stop it.

This Grizzly thing (which I didn't even bother reading yet) will fade and tomorrows news will take over.

The Mods here are very wise and even we would get divided at times on what to do or not to do but have learned the art of discussion and reason and will get a handle on it or let it pass.

Been here a long time and have seen all sorts of things come and go. The average length of time they have any real wind to them is around 3 days.

again...Happy Bday.

[sillyputte]

Absoultely nothing in my view.  In fact I cringe when I hear people come on here and blame everything on their ex, BPD or not.  It is like hearing someone play the victim role.

I can understand people coming here and questioning things, and trying to understand, but sometimes there are those who simply will never admit any wrongdoing in the relationship.

Your xBPD did not cause you all of this grief, you allowed it to happen.  You played a part in the dance, and the quicker you get to understand why, the quicker the recovery process will be.

Personally counselling was a godsend for me.  It helped me recognize why I put up with the abuse, and how my FOO played a role in all of that (I do have two mentally ill brothers).  That is not to say they are to blame, rather it was more to note that we are the way we are for reasons.

The need to save or fix, or the ability to put up with emotional or physical abuse long past a time we should have left, just confirms for me we have issues we need to work on.

If those who deny that continue to do so, they will stay stuck as the victim.

Overall nothing wrong with admitting we are unstable and perhaps unhealthy.  IMHO it is much easier however to continue to blame the xBPD for the problems, and some people enjoy that place.

[turtle]

Hey BDDummy --

Ya know this whole la/true non thing is just a waste of energy.  I posted to this thread early on because the message I got from the whole thing was that we ALL need to take a look in our own mirrors -- without the rose colored glasses. Now it's just turned into a big finger pointing mess.  Like my Mom always said -- "when you point your finger at someone -- remember there's three fingers pointing back at YOU."

I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with admitting we have issues.  In fact, I think there's everything RIGHT with it.  I wrote a thead about my own realizations about this very thing not that long ago.  You can read it if you want to. Realizing MY part in the whole mess was a real turning point for me. Continuing to blame my bpxbf kept me stuck and it kept him in control even when he was no longer in my life!

hthttps://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?

I'm here to help you, others, and myself move on to the better lives that we want and deserve.  And we can only have a better future if we work on OURSELVES! 

Let's all move forward together!

Turtle

[turtle]

Here's the link I was talking about --- I didn't do the copy/paste thing right the first time.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=54234.0

Turtle

[Silas Pseudonym]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

You are still being very hard on yourself, on several levels.  One month is very early days & you are still grieving.  Calling yourself unstable, because you were not taught, never learned what a good relationship feels like, is harsh.

You are working on understanding & making progress.  Just like divorce, our healing is a process, not a single act.  It is a process.

In my journey therapy has been a help, but you have to remember, you are the one doing the work.  My first 3 therapists would not offer insight into the estranged.  I needed to understand him in order to know what to change in myself.  (My current T got that in the first 15 minutes...)  Some of that is about the way I learn.  So I had to look for answers myself & books played a huge part of that. 

A help to you, a book out there about Narcissism...it is at my other residence.  That is the title, I think, followed by a longer description.  The cover is mostly red with cubist portrait on it...it describes the dance many of us carry on, the compromises we make (some with ourselves) to stay in the relationship.  There were aspects of the stuff that I think go out the window, when it becomes a PD.  Remember, we ALL have personality traits, & we play off each other.  When those traits become so extreme as to get these PD labels, it becomes a different situation.  There is much you could gain from reading it, but what I am saying is, that I do not agree with ALL of their conclusions...

People who have PDs are not capable of loving, down to their core, therefore they are not "IN" the relationship.  The "relationship" is all about them.  Staying in it, changes us, fixing that & getting out does too.  All of that is a process, change.  Not long term, entrenched behavior (like BPD), but an event, like a cold.  Messed up, maybe, but it can go away.

People who stay...another perspective would be Karen Horney.  She was a "founding" psychologist, contradicted, built on Jung.  One of my first big insights into this stuff was her descriptions of "neurotic" personalities.  Her work is older than you, so things have changed, more labels, but it does not make the underlying conclusions wrong..."HIS" diagnosis (NPD/BPD) aligned with her description of SADIST, most often they end up with a masochist...I read that, & the description of a Masochist...& said NOO.  Later in the book, she describes, the Resigned, personality.  Fit me to a T.

I loved the way she described a resigned character getting out.  She used the Paul Gauguin analogy.  He gave up a successful business, wife, family, to paint naked women in Tahiti.  Most of us won't be famous painters, we get labeled as having a mid life crisis!

You said no one here had a gun put to their head...well...not literally.  After a point in my marriage, conceiving my son, our second child in a sexual assault (yes I know you have a vision of the stereotype but...) I concluded HE was capable of anything.  My belief was not at a conscious level...this bit, but I do think so now...I thought he was capable of anything, up to & including incest.  He did threaten kidnapping, into the Commonwealth where I would never find them.  I stayed to protect my children.

This much was conscious, I stayed, because I knew I would never be able to have 100% custody.  Once they were old enough to speak for themselves, I was able to get him into counseling, got some change, but now with the children grown, not enough...

On a different tack, understanding what is right, as opposed to what is wrong, I read a book by a Buddhist Shrink.  An American who adopted Buddhism, though he has a long history by US standards.  I do remember that title, "Open To Desire."  He does go against the stereotype interpretation, that Buddha ONLY aspired to eliminating desire to achieve spiritual enlightenment.  He actually taught that for most of us that route is through physical love.  Most people are not capable of celibacy, so loving another is the next best route..Great book, gives one hope.

Let this birthday be a milestone for you.  Give yourself some goals & set some boundaries for the next woman in your life.  Then refuse to SETTLE for less.  So many men are blinded by looks, & yes attraction does hinge on that to some extent, but don't let that carry you away in spite of the bad, shallow, character beneath.  Not to say, YOU think that way...

Happy birthday & go have some FUN!

Silas

[Pinnacle]

Noting is wrong with admitting it. I'm going to see a T tomorrow. If I was willing to take his physical, emotional and verbal abuse for 30 years there must be something wrong with me.  The fact that I'm still in the marriage just cements the fact that I need to see someone.

I have made progress. I do recognize that my anger and resentment isn't going away.

Its time to work on me and find out what my contribution was and where I'm going from here.

Happy Birthday BPDUMMY!

Puddin

[spamlady]

Thanks, puddin,

I've been thinking along those lines. After finding bpdfamily, it took me quite a while to go beyond my initial glee that I had found out about BPD--about "what was wrong with him."

Frankly, during my first months here, I wondered why the board owners included a "Working on Us" section--why would we need to work on us when *they* were the disordered ones?

Now I understand. :P

spam

[Pinnacle]

Well, I went to the T today. I found out:

a. I'm not doing a very good job of erecting and maintaining boundaries. ex: last weekend when he called me a F...B... it over stepped my boundary on using those words with me. My boundary stated that I would move out if he started that again. I didn't move out.

b. I am keeping the loop going.I am allowing the arguments to continue by participating.

All in All I am still being an enabler and until I consistantly enforce my boundaries, don't participate,, etc. nothing is going to change.

That's part of why I am still carrying somuc resentment.

I will try again!

[thomaso61]

Glad you did that Skip..It's been awhile since I've seen this one...WOW!   

[oneflewover]

Wonder if PDQ has seen it yet?  This was such awhile ago, curious as to how he may decipher it today.  Quick...you still feel unstable my friend?   Nah...you have come a long way you ol' BPDDummy!

It is interesting how this disorder can draw out our weaknesses, even if they are minor, to such a degree that we do question our very own stability.  Why do we give that power away I wonder?  What is it about this crazy disorder that invokes self-doubt and purges out our weaknesses?

Of course we should self-examine and always work towards improving ourselves.  That should be the natural progression and evolution in our lives.  But I was pretty stable before BPD, minus a few weak spots, then I crumbled apart during the whole BPD explosion, then I methodically and systematically re-built and re-stabilized myself post BPD and feel fairly rock solid now. 

But why did I crumble because of someone else who was truly unstable?

Interesting to think about PDQ...sorry I missed this post the first go around, I think I was painted white way back then and obviously quite enmeshed and foolishly enamored with the ex...

[Exonerated]

Hello All,

There is a very good reason why living with a BPD makes everyone question their own sanity and stability. The principle is scriptural and from what it says the oppression of BPd will make even a wise one act crazy.

(Ecclesiastes 7:7) . . .For mere oppression may make a wise one act crazy

The problem we see here is that when we are around insanity, we begin to accept that certain behaviors are "normal" for the BPD.

I will never forget the time, when one of our daughters spilled a soft-drink on some new carpet. My BPDw gets up in her housecoat and barefood, and starts jumping up and down in the soft drink. So here my two daughters and I are watching her jump up and down splashing the soft drink and crushing the paper cup, BPDw noticed that we were all watching, and she sat down on the dry carpet and asked one of our daughters to get a towel. Eventually she got angry at us because we were all laughing and amused at her behavior, but she maintained that her behavior was normal under the circumstances.

In time, it does cause instability.

Cheers,

On_Parole

[kj1234]

Hi everyone,

I jumped over to this board because I want to try to put more emphasis on myself, separate from my stbxw.  I haven't been able to get that whole thing out of my mind for over four months now, but it is a mix of thinking about her and thinking about me.  I don't blame her for everything at all.  I know I had some faults in the marriage.  But some things she did were way out of line, to say the least, and I sure hope I will never do those things to anyone.  I don't think I have so far in my life.

Still, I realize that I have had a hard time when most of my LTRs have ended, except for the one time when one was ending, restarting, ending, restarting, etc., and a woman I knew for a long time expressed an interest in me and wanted to date me.  I suffered least in that transition than in all my other break-ups.  I know that I also have some fear of abandonment.  I have trouble being alone, at least for a good while after a break-up, and I usually don't feel fully better until I am in another relationship, but I have remained single for years at a time between relationships.  I have tended at times to get serious too quickly in relationships and rarely end them, even when they don't seem right, but I do usually bring some problems to the surface and try to resolve them, which sometimes brings about the ending.  The main thing is that I suffer badly with the ending of most relationships and have trouble functioning normally for a while, even when the relationship was not that good and even when the SO did some terrible things.  I have at times continued calling, shown up uninvited, etc.  It is difficult to admit these things "in public", but they are true.

Now, in this last one, my marriage that is ending (has ended), I thought I finally did the right thing for myself and allowed myself to develop love and marry a woman whom I thought was so many good things and treated me so well.  I resisted the old "in love" feeling that in the past has sometimes been a mix of love, lust, desire, insecurity, longing for a particular person, some idealization, etc.  In this last case I took it slowly, thought about what was good for me, got to know the person, tried to objectively judge who she was compared to what was important to me.  I developed real respect, admiration, concern, love, happiness and was sure I wanted to marry her when I did.  I was happy being married to her and I believed she treated me very well.

Then the whole thing blew up in a terrible way and I found myself looking back and seeing that there were many strange things along the way that I ignored.  There were also some concerns expressed by my stbxw, though she did not express them clearly or consistently, that I did not dig into, but let pass.  There were other things going on behind my back that part of my mind had easily figured out, but I was in denial.  I am purposely leaving out details because I want to keep the focus on myself.

I have been through some extensive T in the past and while I have improved I have not been able to get rid of some of my weaknesses and I don't know if I can.  Recent T helped me immensely in getting over the initial shock and anxiety.  I think I will go back now to try to take another jump forward.

I just think sometimes that some of my stbxw's issues are like mine, but some are worse in some ways.  So, I don't like to judge her entirely for her faults.  I only really have a very hard time with some of the things she did that were a complete betrayal, utterly destructive to me, and have caused me damage in multiple ways.  Some things she did are almost inconceivable to me, especially coming from someone who professed to love me and always strongly opposed, as far as I knew, the kind of behavior she executed against me.

Still, even if she is BPD, which I strongly believe is the case, I am not completely without fault.  I am eager to move on with myself in any way I can, but I also need to have an appropriate mindset to protect myself in the legal issues that still remain.  So, I have mixed feelings about too much introspection and self-examination and am trying to do it in a way that strengthens me without increasing any self doubt at the moment.  It is a challenge and it is life.  None of us is perfect.  Sometimes our fault can be trying too hard to fix ourselves, which requires us to keep thinking something is wrong with us.  It is a little tricky at times.  I try to give myself some days when I don't think at all about what I should be doing or what is best for me at any moment, but just to go completely with gut and intuition, no judgment.  Those days can be just as helpful as the others.

Life goes on.

[bewildered2]

i was back home visiting family last week and bumped into someone i have known for most of my life.

this guy is a great example of the eternal batchelor; and he has seemed for years like one of the happiest people i know. of course, he is very selfish and gets to do exactly what he wants, all the time. all his money gets spent on him. no wife or kids to worry about. truth is, sometimes i have envied him.

he has always had lots of girlfriends too. and lots of stories about his wild sex life too.

well, i hadn't seen him for best part of a year. and guess what, i hear stories that he is in a dysfunctional relationship with a strange woman. so i meet them both. but before i meet her he tells me that he loves this girl but that she smokes a lot of pot (he doesn't and never did), drinks heavily (he doesn't and never did), and cheats on him all the time with old boyfriends, ex-husbands, and others.

we go out for dinner and she is a total mess. incoherent. stories that go no where. she arrives drunk and gets drunker. she is teasing him at the table by constantly looking at her phone for text messages. she lets slip that she was in the same place a few nights earlier, without him. this prompts an inquiry from him, "who were you with?", etc.

the evening is over (the one with us) because she leaves at 10pm. the guy then says "that's it, its over". the next day, of course, we find out that she was texting apologies to him at 4.30am. then, he takes the blame for the bad evening.

of course i am not a mental health professional, but...if she isn't a borderline then i'll eat my hat.

and after 6 months with this woman the guy is a total wreck. and 6 months ago he would have slept with her once or twice and then dumped her. so why didn't it happen? i will be that the woman i saw at the 6 month mark was completely different from the woman she was 6 months ago. and that is the problem with these types. day 1 is way different from day 180.

so, are we unstable? i don't think so. do we become unstable? absolutely. why? because the partner we fell in love with slowly changes from the best person to the worst person. and your typical non slowly goes crazy trying to get the borderline back to the person he or she was in the beginning, which as we know, is an impossible task.

everybody hopes that this guy dumps this woman, and fast. a few of us who have had previous experience with a borderline know that this guy now has some serious work to do to get back tho the person he was last christmas.

are we unstable? i don't think so. but can a stable person become destabilized by a relationship with a borderline. absolutely.

b2           

[Finding_Myself_again]

so, are we unstable? i don't think so. do we become unstable? absolutely. why? because the partner we fell in love with slowly changes from the best person to the worst person. and your typical non slowly goes crazy trying to get the borderline back to the person he or she was in the beginning, which as we know, is an impossible task.

are we unstable? i don't think so. but can a stable person become destabilized by a relationship with a borderline. absolutely.

b2           

Hi,

I do agree with the above and I do agree that I had some issues and played a role in the dance (worked very hard on them and ongoing process).

It's the slow change that makes you question everything you believed in.

Am I crazy because I really liked and loved this person who really looked sincere and who did so many lovely things for me. (never thought that somebody could say and do such a things and that it was not sincere, I would not be able to change and just play a role to get close to somebody)

Am I crazy for having tried to help him (carrying yes, rescuer yes, crazy?)

Am I crazy because I let him get away with so many things?  I had disputes with friends before and sometimes there was a cold in our relationship until we started talking about what happened said sorry if we really hurt somebody or did something wrong and forgot about it. (never met a person before in my life who was not ready to talk about what happened, never heard of passive agressive behaviour)

Am I crazy because somebody you just had a great moment with doesn't remember things about it or has another memory about it (made me crazy but I have an excellent memory)

Am I crazy because I never heard of BPD before and didn't know what this could do to people.

Am I crazy for believing everybody has some good inside and that I cannot believe somebody can hurt another human being on purpose (Naive maybe but does that make me crazy)

I can honestly say that there is nothing wrong with my integrity, my values in life and my education.

After all these months on the rollercoaster, I still find it a horrible decease and I still wish that something would be invented to stop it and help them lead a life full of joy and love like everybody deserves.  I still find it hard to believe that hurts people just to hurt them and doesn't give a damn about it.  I still believe in people and still trust them.  I still am gratefull to have met him which helped me so much getting to see my own issues and work on them which allows me to become a better person.  Does that make me crazy?

Yes I played a role in the relationship and I take full responsibility about this role but did I get to choose the part ... don't think so

FMA

[briefcase]

I didn't check the date when I first read the original post by PDQ and did a double take!     What a difference two years makes, eh?

I've actually been thinking about this issue quite a lot and thought I might take a tentative step into this forum (even though I am still trying to figure out what to do with my marriage).  I met my wife when I was 21 and still fairly immature.  She was 25 and ready to be married.  Before her, I had never had a relationship that lasted more than about 4 or 5 months. As a kid I had some self-esteem and shyness issues, but by the time I met her I had out grown most of those issues and was developing into a fairly confident man. 

Fast forward to present day, seventeen years later (15 married), and I know I have some real issues, which I am working on.  I really, really wonder if these issues would have popped up in my life anyway, or if they developed over time because of the relationship.  On my best days, I focus on changing my life from this point forward, on not so good days I resent the hell out of my wife and feel like she stole something from me (even though I gave it willingly). 

I think bewildered2's story about his friend's gf at day 180 v. at day 1 was interesting, but I wonder what makes us hang around after the pattern becomes obvious.  I don't think the answer is the same for all of us though.

--BC