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Author Topic: Two types ? Understanding a long forgotten mid night text  (Read 1418 times)
Desert
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« on: February 19, 2010, 02:36:04 PM »

I spend a fair amount of time here, and so I tend to muse on the whole BPD phenomenon quite a bit.

And we all know that a better understanding of this disorder helps us to better place our experiences in context and feel more in control.

Recently I read some statements written by pwBPD that express deep anguish over their knowledge that they are hurting the one about whom they care the most, and intense frustration over their inability to change that behavior.  They were heart rendering, because of the tragedy that BOTH people are made so miserable by this illness.

My most recent mental ramblings have led me to conclude that we might separate pwBPD into two main categories:  Those who are just plain vicious, and those who act out not because of a desire to be hurtful but because they cannot control their emotions.

I'm not a mental health professional, so I can't say whether that has anything to do with the presence or absence of a NPD or ASPD comobidity.  It does seem like a possibility, though, in that the presence of a working conscience is clear only in the second group.

Someone's post on another thread made me think about a text I got in the middle of the night in May 2008, a few weeks after I'd broken up with her and left the state, after which she begged me to take her back.  I'll spare all the details and simply state that I agreed so long as she would stop using drugs and start therapy.

So anyway, this text I got said, "You are the great love of my life.  I miss you desperately and can't wait to see you."  I texted back, "I love you too.  Call me tomorrow."

When she hadn't called by late afternoon, I phoned her.  For whatever reason, I called her land line instead of her cell.  It was answered by this gay friend of hers who told me (1) that he was apartment sitting and (2) that she'd spent the last two weeks holed up with some new guy who had access to lots of ... .white stuff.

I was STUNNED.  I mean, it was bad enough that she'd begged me to take her back while she was already with this guy, but ... .this text proclaiming her love... .WHY?  What POSSIBLE reason could she have for further leading me on?  She had never tried to hurt me before, this made no sense.

I was so upset I talked the incident over with one of my female professors (who was not in the psychiatric field but I felt comfortable talking to her).  The professor said, "She's just sick.  That's all.  You're well rid of her."

I quickly forgot it, and never thought of that again until a few days ago, when another thread discussed middle of the night texts.

My ex's behavior since has not evidenced any vindictiveness or black-splitting whatsoever.  That incident remained an anomaly.

And a few days ago, I had a new thought about it.

I've been on these boards a year and it's EXTREMELY clear that in terms of abusiveness toward me, my ex is near or at the bottom of the scale.  And that's likely why I have never harbored anger toward her.  Her failures to me were not purposeful but rooted in her inability to do better.

So I have a new theory about that text.

Here's what I see:

Desert leaves Z (not her real initial).  Having the emotional needs typical of a pwBPD, Z contacts Desert to obtain some validity ("re establishing a relationship" even though circumstances make it impossible to actually engage in one for the immediate future).  Meanwhile, Z has also established contact with a new victim (V).  V not only satisfies the need for having another body in the room (the emotional needs) but as a bonus is well stocked with one of her favorite substances.

One night she awakens (aren't those the times we often feel the most frightened) and for whatever reason, at that moment her emotional needs are not being met by V.  Z feels alone and once again, seeks validity by mentally re establishing the relationship with Desert.

I know that every time she told me she loved me, IN THAT MOMENT she meant it.  Now I think it might have been true at that moment as well.  But it was impossible for her to sustain those feelings or treat me with the respect one ought to accord a lover (she had no respect for herself, and no concept of boundaries).

Some of you might think I'm a complete idiot.

But this makes sense to me.
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turtlesoup
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2010, 02:42:09 PM »

No, I think you're absolutely correct in your hypothesis. I think probably at 3am on whenever it was she was missing you and/or scared.

I caught my gf re-engages to her ex, and they were always at times when we had been split or something traumatic had happened. However, it doesn't excuse the fact its still extremely selfish and bad voodoo for you.

Who do you send texts to telling them they're your only love in the middle of the night? Their emotional needs are all that matter and its not really good enough is it. But probably, at that moment, yes, she meant it, in the way that they ever mean it.
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man34
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2010, 05:25:54 PM »

u a absoulutly right... .my gf loves me... .i know... .but in that moment... .its complex... .
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atwittsend
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2010, 05:27:24 PM »

you are not an idiot my friend.  I agree with you on much of what you wrote here. 
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KateCat
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2010, 05:59:23 PM »

Desert,

I think your thesis is probably pretty accurate. The only thing that makes me doubt is that so many of the posters here on bpdfamily.com are "people of means," broadly speaking. Not just people with academic credentials and unusual intelligence--like you--or money and connections, like some others. But generally dependable people who can materially improve the life of these troubled partners. If any drug dealers with piles of white stuff and a pimping business on the side post on this website, I've missed it. And maybe the 3 a.m. calls go out too to the drug dealers and pimps, but I wonder if it isn't a self-interested survival mechanism that prompts the late-night protestations of love and loss, and directs them according to need more than emotion.   
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schwing
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2010, 06:34:03 PM »

Hi Desert,

Recently I read some statements written by pwBPD that express deep anguish over their knowledge that they are hurting the one about whom they care the most, and intense frustration over their inability to change that behavior.  They were heart rendering, because of the tragedy that BOTH people are made so miserable by this illness.

I can say with certainty that some of the BPD loved ones in my life have expressed "deep anguish" over the hurt they've caused.  What I would question is how long they can sustain such feelings before they either self-medicate themselves or else dissociate such feelings away.

My most recent mental ramblings have led me to conclude that we might separate pwBPD into two main categories:  Those who are just plain vicious, and those who act out not because of a desire to be hurtful but because they cannot control their emotions.

I would argue that the ones who appear "just plain vicious" choose the illusion of control (through for example, anger).  While the others are not so apt to hide their subjugation to their sensibilities.  I would say that neither choose to even try to control their emotions.  If they chose it, they could endeavor to recover.

I'm not a mental health professional, so I can't say whether that has anything to do with the presence or absence of a NPD or ASPD comobidity.  It does seem like a possibility, though, in that the presence of a working conscience is clear only in the second group.

This is probably a good reason why in the new proposed DSM these once separate and distinct diagnoses are now "blurred" together with sliding scales indicating the degree of certain traits.

So anyway, this text I got said, "You are the great love of my life.  I miss you desperately and can't wait to see you."  I texted back, "I love you too.  Call me tomorrow."

When she hadn't called by late afternoon, I phoned her.  For whatever reason, I called her land line instead of her cell.  It was answered by this gay friend of hers who told me (1) that he was apartment sitting and (2) that she'd spent the last two weeks holed up with some new guy who had access to lots of ... .white stuff.

I was STUNNED.  I mean, it was bad enough that she'd begged me to take her back while she was already with this guy, but ... .this text proclaiming her love... .WHY?  What POSSIBLE reason could she have for further leading me on?  She had never tried to hurt me before, this made no sense.

I can see why you were stunned.  Part of what might be helpful is for you to accept that she does not think and feel in the same way that you think and feel, when it comes to adult, intimate relationships.  In all other things, perhaps she may think and feel as we do, but not on this regard.

Why might she choose to proclaim her love while with someone else?  

One night she awakens (aren't those the times we often feel the most frightened) and for whatever reason, at that moment her emotional needs are not being met by V.  Z feels alone and once again, seeks validity by mentally re establishing the relationship with Desert.

You see, once again, you are assuming she thinks and feels as you do.  You hypothesize if she were not getting her "emotional needs met" then she might be motivated to seek you out.  I would suggest that she did so BECAUSE she was getting her emotional needs met.  One of her emotional needs is to feel close, intimately connected with someone.  HOWEVER, these very same feelings of intimacy ALSO trigger her fear of abandonment (making them two nearly contradictory and competing feelings).  So what does she do when she is afraid that she will be left?  She secures her exit plan(s) first.

I know that every time she told me she loved me, IN THAT MOMENT she meant it.  Now I think it might have been true at that moment as well.  But it was impossible for her to sustain those feelings or treat me with the respect one ought to accord a lover (she had no respect for herself, and no concept of boundaries).

I would argue that when she told you she loved you, she felt it at that moment, intensely; because at that moment, she NEEDED you (to be her back-up exit plan).  But do I think that someone with BPD can honor such feelings of love with the concern for (and the corresponding actions securing) the well being of the other party even when it does not coincide with their own needs?  I do not.  Unrecovered, they will always choose to meet their own needs first and above other people's needs.

My 2 bits, Schwing
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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2010, 07:19:45 PM »

Excerpt
HOWEVER, these very same feelings of intimacy ALSO trigger her fear of abandonment (making them two nearly contradictory and competing feelings).  So what does she do when she is afraid that she will be left?  She secures her exit plan(s) first.

Great quote Schwing and so true. And once you wrap your head around all these people she uses, you'll see that you are really no different than the new guy. This is a part of the recovery process that's most painful (our own narcissitic injury) and traumatizing to our egos.

You see, if Hollywood wrote a screenplay about this- including yourself as a character, the movie would play out as the BPD in the lead with all these bit players. You and I think (erroneously) that this is a great love story gone wrong-and we play a lead role- but the reality is far less fairy tale. This is a deep disorder that has dug a trench in her brain and she continually push/pulls people away with declarations of love. You are useful only in your availability to her. The minute you are available- she will push you away again. It's a disorder.

She fears intimacy and is triggered by the new guy coupling- so she texts you as her back-up plan. It's textbook BPD.  There will come a time when you will see her behavior for what it is- but at the moment, you are thinking the love story.  We all went through this- I came through this- and my own narcissism -when I uncovered my own need to think that I was the ONLY one person the BPD'r ever loved. The BPD partner even continually told me so. I stayed because I thought I was special and I came to realize that the only special part was my availability and desire to keep coming back for more. I had no boundaries when it came to "love."

I had to re-write the movie in my mind. It was no longer a love story- but a series of vignettes of used people. Quite the tragedy actually. Eventually I established this yearning for love as childhood need the BPD partner awoke in me.
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Stargirl
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2010, 05:59:55 AM »

Excerpt
HOWEVER, these very same feelings of intimacy ALSO trigger her fear of abandonment (making them two nearly contradictory and competing feelings).  So what does she do when she is afraid that she will be left?  She secures her exit plan(s) first.

Great quote Schwing and so true. And once you wrap your head around all these people she uses, you'll see that you are really no different than the new guy. This is a part of the recovery process that's most painful (our own narcissitic injury) and traumatizing to our egos.

You see, if Hollywood wrote a screenplay about this- including yourself as a character, the movie would play out as the BPD in the lead with all these bit players. You and I think (erroneously) that this is a great love story gone wrong-and we play a lead role- but the reality is far less fairy tale. This is a deep disorder that has dug a trench in her brain and she continually push/pulls people away with declarations of love. You are useful only in your availability to her. The minute you are available- she will push you away again. It's a disorder.

Soo true, and soo sad. This is the hard thing in a nutshell, to make the journey in our heads and our feelings from thinking about it as a true and great lovestory to see it for what it is... .We should have compassion with ourselves when doing that journey because it´s utterly painful. But, living a lie is not a valid option.     
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turtlesoup
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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2010, 05:23:26 AM »

Actually, I have said something incorrectly here, these messages were not always sent at times of trauma at all.

Recounting the first re-engagement I caught her senging, she had gone to work and we had a really nice weekend together, I was still at her house and she was sending me messages about what was for dinner.

I was cooking a nice meal for her, she had left her email account open (which happened far too often for someone who really should be hiding these kinds of things) and I saw her last message (sent from her phone but still recorded on her Gmail) was to her ex, another re-engagement, whilst I was there in her house telling them how much they meant to her and how she couldn't love anyone else! She only just told me how much she loved me.

So the earlier hypothesis holds water. The idea that when they are getting closer to someone, they will send messages to exs telling them they love them.

Weirdo's, discount it all :D
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VB
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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2010, 06:18:11 AM »

Just reading this made me think of something my BPD once said. He said he was trying to change and that he knew he was being vicious and horrible. I said stop it then! He made it out that he knows he does it and enjoys doing it, but he does not know he does it though, it just happens. He doesn't plan it... .or does he? Is he totally in control and maybe he is just an a-hole. I am more confused now than ever... .!
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turtlesoup
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« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2010, 06:30:11 AM »

Just reading this made me think of something my BPD once said. He said he was trying to change and that he knew he was being vicious and horrible. I said stop it then! He made it out that he knows he does it and enjoys doing it, but he does not know he does it though, it just happens. He doesn't plan it... .or does he? Is he totally in control and maybe he is just an a-hole. I am more confused now than ever... .!

At the end of the day, for us, what does it really matter whether he can control it or not. Unless you are planning on getting back with him? At the end of the day they cause you extraordinary amounts of pain and make you doubt your own sanity. I know its hard not to turn yourself inside out with these questions, but does it really make you feel any better to know its BPD or that he's an arsehole? The net result is always the same; your hurt. And if they're not prepared to get help for the way they act and the people they hurt, this is the only matter or fact that counts on their side.
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VB
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« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2010, 07:57:41 AM »

He won't get help. He won't even admit to needing help. The offer was there. Part of the solution is there, but if they won't take it... .
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