Medium Chill - respond, don't react

[CaptainM]

I heard about someone suggesting Medium Chill a little while ago. Doesn't this basically invalidate their feelings though?

[harmony1]

Thatr's why I like WirsMind... .its more of a "dont load the gun yourself" kind of advice... we nons tend to be way too forthcoming to everything... .I look at it as more of a boundary thing... .I personally find that if we are flat... and not overly happy or upset... things tend to calm down quicker... .

[stayingfornow]

Medium Chill sounds like what my mother did to me throughout my childhood TBH. She would even say, when i was upset about something (her treatment of me, school, friends, bf, "You are not going to drag me into your b/s" - as a child it felt cold and nasty and very invalidating

and i'm sure she was hoping that i would "move on" ASAP

[Mariposa]

I'm not so sure abut this Medium Chill advice, it does sound a bit mean! I cant help but want to be there with my all for my SO when he is in emotional pain... .surely you would just come across as you dont care.

[Carebear]

Medium Chill seems to be the working for me.  

[committed]

This advice might work for a co-worker or someone you just have to tolerate in life. But I don't think it is appropriate in a relationship that you want to work. Neither partner would be getting anything out of the relationship. I think it would cause it to end and both parties go their separate ways. I don't think that is why most of us are here on the staying board.

[Mariposa]

Medium Chill seems to be the working for me.  

Carebear - Does your pwBPD not feel like you don't care? I'm not saying at that you don't, but if I was treated in this manner, I would feel like I wasn't cared about, like my feelings, emotions and what I was going through meant nothing? Do you think this would be beneficial in the long run?

I'm just curious, that's all, I can't work out how it would work!  

[harmony1]

WiseMind is more about not getting all drawn in an enmeshed... .at least that is how I use it... I am sure it could be used to not "care" but I posted this on this thread because it does help the non stay unenmeshed in a way...

disclaimer: this is not to be used to ignore anyone's feelings

[HardDaysNight]

Skip put this on this site awhile ago... .

WiseMind

When they lash out – show no anger.

When they are nice – do not reciprocate.

Be distant and flat in both cases. When they sense they cannot manipulate your reaction, they tend to leave you alone.

Tell them nothing, ask for nothing, and offer vacuous pleasantries. WiseMind gives no appearance of withdrawal, so they can’t accuse you of giving them the cold shoulder. You are there, you’re just not present to them in an emotional way.

WiseMind is effective because they no longer feel safe in their ability to generate chaos. Now you’re back in control. It takes a bit of practice as you learn o disconnect from them emotionally. It’s about more than just boundaries. To put it another way, it’s a two-part process with a specific attitude:

1)   Never share personal information about yourself

2)   Never get involved in their problems/drama

Attitude: pleasant, modest, implacably calm – never showing anger or compassionate involvement; paying attention, but not too much attention, while never violating items one or two above.

Remember, a person can only use information they know about you to find your hot buttons and use them against you if they are highly manipulative. So don’t let them know your hot buttons.

Does your personality-disordered loved one pick fights with you when something is wrong with him/her? When you practice WiseMind, you, in essence, become a dull listener. They get bored and move on to someone they have a greater effect on. I swear, it really does work. They will rather quickly see who is the most active listener and turn their energies there.

Something like this seems to work best for me.  First it is taking care of me and not letting myself get drawn in and set-up.

I do, however, do respond to when she is being nice with niceness, BUT NOT BY removing limits.  I think I've always sensed false niceness but now the I have an idea of what is behind previously baffeling behavior, it's easier to see the false niceness which is really about getting her way again.

I think it is important to reinforce my BPD wife when she is being nice (even when it is a try to remove limits) I express appreciation for her niceness (which is a genuine feeling on my part) but will calmly keep the limit.  Also, she is not 100% in some BPD mode, she can be nice to just be nice.

If there is a drama, I'm there to help solve the real problem, if there is one.  There can often be a problem, but the reaction is all out of proportion to the situation.  Recent case in point changing lightbulbs, yes it can be so "dramatic" we have to replace the whole light fixture or she's sure she'll break it if she tries.     If it wasn't part of a constant litany of negativity it would be funny.

What I'm not going to do again is share with her my true feelings.  

[dados76]

Medium Chill... it could work... for a situation where... staying for the kids maybe... just trying to 'get through'... or tolerate like committed said...

i guess its not a kind of relationship i want to be in... im pretty good at being mellow... but i want to be happy for him if hes feeling good... and i duck out of drama if its pointed at me... if hes upset... i try and listen... i dont want to be emotionally absent from my relationship...

more than a little of this is my own stuff... but i kind of like that R is an intense person... he does feel strongly about things... it does make him really driven...

I like WiseMind

[harmony1]

WiseMind works... .

he threatens divorce every weekend

he left sunday

after being overly demanding and such saying what I need to change (sorry that list is too long an unreasonable)... well this morning he decided he is coming home tomorrow


why? Wise Mind

to his emails... i was like... .ok if that is what will make you happy... .when they see they cant push your buttons... they back off... .

when he is regulated  I will validate... .but telling him too much of my own opinions... never ends well... .

[dados76]

depends a lot on the person too... R doesnt usually make threats abt stuff... some of that is T... some is just how he is... if he says 'im going to ____' thats whats going to happen... im sure he thinks a lot of stuff... but if it comes out loud... is pretty for sure... i think for him saying it out loud makes it 'real'... he doesnt push buttons... on me anyway... soon as he starts w/stuff like that... i take it to mean hes dysregulated... and i peace out for a while... im not trying to be in a relationship where somebody plays games w/me... thats where... my boundary about... dysregulation pointed at me comes in... if hes just dysregulated and trying to deal... ok... if its dysregulated at somebody else... ok... if its dysregulated at me... we can talk when he cools a little

i can def see how this would help a lot for threats of stuff designed to be hurtful...

[harmony1]

yes it does help with the punishers... .usually mine gets all set off when i use dearman... he sees no benefit in compromising... .this last threat was because i told him "no we cant have the roofer chop off the chimney and reroof over it.can we call him first... .well he was gonna go up there to save us money and do it himself (this was a sunday night about 9pm)... it is attached to the water heater"... .another time we were taking a bath... .i said "wow we arent as young as we used to be"  well he held it in til we got into bed... .then when he "couldnt" he screamed at me like "well you have been cutting me down all night and treat me like a sex object"     ... he willingly came into the bathroom... .yet it became all my fault... I did apoligize as I found out he thought I meant he was fat? huh? cause I didnt want him to feel that way... yet it was ok for him to make all sorts of remarks after my apoligy to me... .cause he felt bad... .hmmm ok... .so why bother stating that he hurt me with that? wont help

my uBPDh is very punitive... .what he thinks in his head is the truth... .so i dont defend at all

yet when he thinks i am cheating... he looks for attention elsewhere... .using this technique is what helps me not get all involved  and reenmeshed... .wont work for everyone... but I have been on this board for 3 years... .what works for one doesnt work for another

if i tell him my true feelings or am sick... he makes it about his feelings etc... .so why really bother... .there cant be anyone on this board that gets alot of empathy and hasnt had the conversations turned on them to be all about their BPD and them... .so if you have a headache they have a brain tumor... .I do care... but I use this as a tool for radical acceptance as well... he is not capable of hearing my feelings... if he gets me a gift... i say thank you... however in my case he wants a gift the following week that costs 10 times more... .otherwise I dont care... .um no this works for me

[Sharonon]

I liked the Wise Mind idea & printed it out. That word will enter my vocabulary.

I'm thinking it is one of those techniques we apply in our own way.

Me, I often add warmth, but not the headless "I believe everything you say". I reserve the right to remain my own thinking person. Sometimes I go flatline Wise Mind. I have a BPD daughter who needs that sometimes. I think she is also NPD, even more than my h. These people are not pussy cats.

When I first came to this site, I could not & still cannot accept what it seems to me some people are saying about "validation". I am still ok with my opinion on that. When all is going seemingly genuinely, yes, I validate, including if he is having negative emotionsas long as he isn't dumping them on me (being abusive) . But when he is behaving abusively, no way do I validate; I extinguish - chill stuff  . And if he seems to be working on me with an insincere line designed to flatter me, etc, I do Wise Mind, eg, a simple, unemotional "Thank you" with a wee smile only for show & move on.

I guess the matter is somewhat complex. And we may understand things differently.

I am currently reading "How to Handle Bullies, Teasers & Other Meanies; A book that takes the nonsense out of name calling & other nonsense" by Kate Cohen-posey. Am not sure, maybe I bought it from her ( or some therapy type site by PayPal). That book is good for me though it is pitched at grade school kids. It fills a need in me though I am at a higher level in some other ways. It is Wise Mind with validation. Reading that book I saw so clearly how my BPD mother had no idea how to deal with the bad stuff. So she became just as bad in return (to my father). And now I am having hassles having a brother & 2 sisters reacting to my ordinary talk aggressively. Somehow I didn't turn out as bad as they did in that way but the child in me is still in need of a few lessons.

[asdf]

I'm at the end of my rope and this is worth a try. I'll validate when there is peace.

This and meditation.

[dados76]

i dont think... abusiveness should get validated... it should probably be be left by itself... i keep validating for when hes really trying to communicate... to let him know im getting it... or to help me clarify if im not getting it... any kind of uglyness just gets 'lets talk about this later... '

[CaptainM]

i dont think... abusiveness should get validated... it should probably be be left by itself... i keep validating for when hes really trying to communicate... to let him know im getting it... or to help me clarify if im not getting it... any kind of uglyness just gets 'lets talk about this later... '

I agree totally, only validate the valid.

[Carebear]

Mariposa, I guess every situation would be different.  but it also depends on the type of person I am as well.  Sometimes I can be over anxious about things, especially if I am reacting to something my BPD friend has said or done.  This week she rang me at work.  The minute she rang, my heart started to beat faster and I felt really ill.  I have had panic attacks before.  Instead of reacting to her drama with great concern, like I usually do, I camly told her to refer to the information I had already given her and not to ring me about that type of thing at work.  I think I handled it better then usual.  When I spoke to her next, she had calmed down considerably and was not upset with me. 

[CalicoSilver]

When they lash out - show no anger

When they are nice- don't reciprocate.

Be distant and flat in both cases. When they sense they can't manipulate your reaction, they tend to leave you alone.

Tell them nothing, ask them nothing, and offer vacuous pleasantries. Medium Chill gives no appearance of withdrawal, so they can't accuse you of giving them the cold shoulder. You are there, you're just not present to them.

Medium Chill is effective because they no longer feel "safe" in their ability to generate chaos. So now you're back in control. It takes a bit of practice, as you have to learn to disconnect from them emotionally. But I've had some great success using this.

It's about more than just boundaries.

To put it in simpler terms, it's a two-parter with a specific attitude:

(1) never share personal or private information on yourself;

(2) never get involved in their problems/drama;

(attitude) pleasant, modest, implacably calm-- never showing anger or compassionate involvement; paying attention but not too much attention-- while NEVER violating items one or two

Remember, a person can only use information they know about you to find your hot buttons and use it against you if they're highly manipulative (like so many BPDs are).  So don't let them know your hot buttons.

Does your BPD pick fights with you when something is wrong with him/her?  Then by being a dull listener, they'll get bored and move on to someone they have a greater effect upon.  I swear, it really does work.

Are you unwittingly giving them the road map to figure out what you're sensitive about, so they can exploit those things later on to make YOU upset when THEY are upset but can't deal with those emotions on their own like a healthy adult?

Are you offering advice or help with only the best of intentions?  Well, if things go wrong, and they CAN'T blame themselves as part of BPD, who do you think they're going to blame?  Are you just putting yourself in the line of eventual fire without realizing it?

If they're angry and they get you angry, then they can successfully transfer the emotions they can't cope with onto you (projection).

If they're angry and lashing out, they get relief from their inner turmoil by getting YOU upset.  So don't ever show yourself getting upset.  If they're upset and they can make you upset too, their goal has been achieved.  I swear, as it worked for the other poster, it worked for me too-- my BPD mother rather quickly would see who was the most active listener and turn her energies there.  I was no longer a means to an end; she no longer got relief from her inner pain by making me feel pain too. 

Of course, one of my physical boundaries was to not do a one-on-one meeting with her again in non-public places; this played very well into Medium Chill.  There's always someone more unenlightened and more of a sucker than you that they target instead.  It might be an unfortunate still-enmeshed family member; it might be the waiter.  But the point is, it will NOT BE YOU. 

Likewise, don't especially share their joys when they're on a high.  If they come to view you as a confidente/soulmate, who do you think they're going to turn to when their rage is highest and they need to foist it off onto someone else?

It's all about disengaging from playing into the BPD dynamic. We often talk about boundaries around here, like only speaking once a week on the phone, or not staying overnight in their houses, or a host of other physical actions of restraint... .

Medium Chill techniques, however, are boundaries for your soul.

[moments]

CalicoSilver, it seems that the term may have been created by the relative of someone with BPD who is resentful, rather than a psychologist's research or someone with training. 

[CalicoSilver]

Moments, I believe you're right regarding its genesis. Sometimes the simple solutions are the best ones, too.

[hidemeaway]

I didn't realize there was a term for this, but I've actually been doing it for awhile.  I DON'T tell Mom anything, and as for her drama, I ignore most of what she complains about, because she is always complaining and it's about everything and everyone!  However, I feel that "Medium Chill" has made the situation worse.  Since she couldn't get information from me, she turned to my DD 5  ?  Where have you been? Who have you been with? She quizzes DD on gifts she's received and who they were from?  Then she takes that information and creates drama claiming others get more time with DD, or we like others more than her, or she wasn't invited to an event, even if it was completely acceptable that she wasn't invited, etc etc.

Now I don't allow her alone with DD.  Which has now turned into her claiming "since you won't allow me alone with DD, I'm just not going to continue this relationship as is"  her words not mine!  So she's been NC with us because she wasn't getting things her way.  It's all or none with her.  Being deprived of any information regarding me, DH, DD, or other extended IL's, has seriously driven her over the edge!  Of course she claims this NC is my fault, and now I'm denying her visitation with DD.  She actually dropped Xmas gifts off for DD at IL's house because she knew we would be there, now dragging IL's into her drama.  She could have dropped them at our house but she rather smear me in the process.  I don't know what else to do to make her stop! It's like I put up a road block and she just barrels top speed right through it. 

[CalicoSilver]

I didn't realize there was a term for this, but I've actually been doing it for awhile.  I DON'T tell Mom anything, and as for her drama, I ignore most of what she complains about, because she is always complaining and it's about everything and everyone!  However, I feel that "Medium Chill" has made the situation worse.  Since she couldn't get information from me, she turned to my DD 5  ?

You're right - and thanks for sharing, too. Were it only (that easy) to determine when and where to use this technique, or another, all our lives might be easier. There simply isn't one (solution) to engage pwBPD - that is "fail safe."

[Skip]

CalicoSilver, it seems that the term may have been created by the relative of someone with BPD who is resentful, rather than a psychologist's research or someone with training. 

It's a grass roots term as you suspect... .it was created and defined by a couple of members in 2004 and it became poplar with some.  But you are right, it is not sanctioned by nor has it been reviewed by any professionals.  

One needs to be careful with this as  "Medium Chill" could easily become "passive aggression".  I think those that have been most successful with this tool know the difference between ending the cycle of conflict and passive aggression.

Mindfulness and WiseMind is a professional tool for dealing with our own "triggering".

What is Mindfulness and WiseMind all about?  In the simplest sense, we all develop from time to time, thinking patterns that do not serve us well.  When we do, we are easily "triggered" -- having non-constructive reactions to specific words or actions based on prior experiences.  We've all been there - resentment, pessimism, defensiveness, impatience, closed mindedness, distrusting, intolerance, confrontational, defeated... .

Mindfulness and WiseMind is a type of self-awareness in which we learn to observe ourselves in real time to see and alter our reactions to be more constructive.

[Jemima]

I think that the fundamental difference between Medium Chill and passive aggression is intention --- and the intention of the behavior comes out clearly in the way it is done. Medium Chill, as Skip pointed out, is about reducing the cycle of conflict by not providing emotionally dysregulating material for the BPD person to latch onto. Passive aggression, on the other hand, is intended to provoke a reaction by inaction or stonewalling.

Somebody may say, "So now we have to  consider the 'thought police' in dealing with our BPD person? WHat difference does it make what our intention is? Isn't it our behavior that matters?" Well, yes, that is true that it is the actual behavior that matters the most. However, it is difficult to describe every possible incarnation of passive-aggressive behavior. Something that looks perfectly benign to an outsider, can be a passive-aggressive act if it taps into an understanding between the two involved parties in an aggressive way.

So, I would say that the "target intent" of Medium Chill is detachment and neutral uninvolvement. It is not about refusing to engage because it gives you a tinge of satisfaction to see them getting frustrated. It should not be about "sending them a message" by refusing to talk to them, to look them in the eye, or refusing to cooperate with them.

The goal of Medium Chill is to have them NOT get upset, and NOT to even realize that you are not engaging with them. If it is frustrating to you to soft-pedal the detachment so that they don't realize you are doing it purposefully, then you are probably operating from a position of passive-aggression. Passive-aggression = you want them to know that you are snubbing them. If they don't get it, you feel like it's not working. You look for signs that you are getting under their skin. You remain highly engaged in the relationship because you are seeking a response from them.

Medium Chill = you don't want them to know that you are purposefully not engaging with them. You want them to get bored with you and find another target for their emotional outbursts. Or at least to keep them calm and neutral when you have to interact with them.

I believe that Medium Chill works in part because it does not provide emotionally disturbing fodder for their dysregulation. When somebody has poor boundaries (as someone with BPD usually does), emotionally=laden material (even when it has nothing to do with them personally) can be taken personally. Getting an emotional response (positive or negative) from you may ramp up their own emotions, and as we know they don't have effective brakes once the emotions start rolling.

[blackandwhite]

I would add that the goal of Medium Chill is to protect the self and the relationship. By minimizing opportunities for conflict--and that includes boundary busting on the part of the pwBPD that a relative will need to cope with--Medium Chill allows the relationship to continue. It won't be at an intimate level, but a relationship at a semi-distance may be the best outcome of a particular situation.

I'll give an example from my own life. My parents (both with undiagnosed PDs) divorced when I was a small child. For decades afterwards, they continued to fight in the courts and through their children when given the opportunity. I first mastered Medium Chill during childhood, as a way of stepping out of that conflict between them, while remaining in relationship with both of them. I reduced the information I conveyed and my emotional expression about each to the other to a bare minimum, given each of them less to work with to fuel their conflict with each other. This frustrated both of them at times, but my intent wasn't to express anger passively at them; it was to make it unrewarding for them to pursue me as a third party in a triangulated fight, and it worked quite well. ":)etachment and neutral uninvolvement" were critical for my own survival and for my ability to continue these relationships at all.

Passive aggression, however, is a huge temptation in a dysfunctional family. Learning about the patterns and looking inward to increase our self-awareness are important for our own emotional health. It's tempting because:

1. We most likely learned it as a strategy from our own family members.

2. Open anger, even well justified, is often not permitted in dysfunctional families. Or if it is, only an assigned member (mom gets to be mad, nobody else) or only under assigned circumstances (brother Joe was drunk when he said those things, let's all pretend it never happened) is okay.

3. We have a great deal of legitimate anger. Working through it takes time.

4. In the meantime, unless we're NC, we have these relationships to manage. "Getting back," punishing, frustrating, withholding can all come naturally in these circumstances if we don't work on our self-awareness.

B&W

[Jemima]

I must say, that there are other things that have to go along with Medium Chill to make it tolerable for us, too. First of all, we need healthy relationships where we CAN share emotional material. Most of us can't tolerate withdrawal from emotional engagement with our people with PDs if we don't have others we CAN lean on. And, especially if we find ourselves virtually surrounded by people with whom we have to employ Medium Chill (and it seems like if we have one PD person in our lives, we are likely to have several), we need to tolerate the "adrift" feeling we get when we disengage from emotional involvement. If you have a family full of PDs, and know that the best way to have peace is to employ Medium Chill with everyone, the holidays may be less dramatic but also will feel like you are a ghost in the house. You might not even dare to share emotional material with a non-PD family member during gatherings, because PDmama or PDcousin might overhear. If you are also recognizing the PD friends you have that you need to disengage from, you go through a period of feeling like the whole world is made up of people you can't trust. It's unsettling. But it's part of the process.

[BMama]

LOL

I feel silly reading some of these old posts I wrote.  But, good, too.

Thanks, B&W.

After the run in I had with enAunt last month with the DD prom stuff, I think I finally once and for all have learned about this.  It takes time, and screwing it up a little bit along the way, I guess.

The whole idea of the "little child" in me, and then tossing around whether or not I want to be NC or LC or whatever... .that's come full circle.  I wish I could let go of the anxiety when I hear from or think I might see/run into uBPDm, though.

Reacting vs. Responding.  Good topic to revisit for me and for many of the folks here now.  And I would add something else I learned in the last year:  No response IS a response.  Sometimes it's all that will "work."

[samantha!]

It seems that the term may have been created by the relative of someone with BPD rather than a psychologist's research or something like that.

It's a grass roots term as you suspect... .it was created and defined by a couple of members in 2004 and it became legend here.  But you are right, it is not sanctioned by nor has it been reviewed by any professionals.  

One needs to be careful with this as  "Medium Chill" could easily become "passive aggression".  I think those that have been most successful with this tool know the difference between ending the cycle of conflict and passive aggression.

Here is a video based on the work of  Alan Fruzzetti, PhD.  It is fundamentally the same idea - a different presentation for a different audience but along with the definitions published here - may help further explain the concept. Video Link  

The idea of avoidance techniques (internal and externally focused) like "Medium Chill" to break the cycle of conflict is an often recommended strategy by professionals.



Alan Fruzzetti, PhD. is a professor at the University of Nevada and he is the educational director for the National Educational Alliance for BPD - an organization of the most respected mental health professionals in this field.

I have read this thread several times and I think it depends on the way of the sickness of the BPD if Medium Chill works or if not.

I really would like to add the following this to this thread:

There are BPDs or Pd were Medium Chill is not working and I think it should be stressed.  Otherwise members will maybe feel "guilty" that his recommended technique is not working in their case.

Also, even that I am for example mostly do not respond on the crap of my enNPDDad anymore, there are situations were I still get panic and very feel frightend and were he is acting very bad, that one has to set proper bounderies with authorities and even legal authorities.

So this thread is often recommended, but Medium Chill  does not work for everyone and surely not in every situation. So do not be disappointed if that is no "real" solution for you.

[Shaktipat]

Thank you for sharing this,  it's helpful.