oops

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

so i was scrolling around facebook (1st mistake) and found my ex's (my purpose fault) page. I dont have access to it or anything like that and came across a picture she posted on her first wall or that first picture you see.

its of a picture I am in but there is a center piece that we are standing next to but both of us and others are cut out and only the centerpiece remains but its the point. You can't see us or the other people in the picture, its just the figure centerpiece but sadly I recognized it... .

so what I am saying is she used a picture that we were in and cut us out. This doesnt need to be some poetic thing or symbolic issue, but it feels wierd like I took a step backwards WHEN I KNOW WAY BETTER THAN THIS SEEING HOW FAR LONG I AM WITH THIS ISSUE.

it feels like I AM    making a big mistake, or a ROOKIE mistake and feed crappy I did so.

[ozzanoid24]

so i was scrolling around facebook (1st mistake) and found my ex's (my purpose fault) page. I dont have access to it or anything like that and came across a picture she posted on her first wall or that first picture you see.

its of a picture I am in but there is a center piece that we are standing next to but both of us and others are cut out and only the centerpiece remains but its the point. You can't see us or the other people in the picture, its just the figure centerpiece but sadly I recognized it... .

so what I am saying is she used a picture that we were in and cut us out. This doesnt need to be some poetic thing or symbolic issue, but it feels wierd like I took a step backwards WHEN I KNOW WAY BETTER THAN THIS SEEING HOW FAR LONG I AM WITH THIS ISSUE.

it feels like I AM    making a big mistake, or a ROOKIE mistake and feed crappy I did so.

[T2H]

My second last ex (n, possibly BPD) used a picture of the two of us on the great trip we had together (to Sth.Amer.) with me cutout, for her meetup.com profile.

But ya, we all make mistakes - get back on the horse, or wagon, or whatever.

[ozzanoid24]

it was just strange to see . as if she was thinking me or should I read into the fact   IM CUT OUT... .

[T2H]

Sending you a message, trying to get you to react, ... .

If you don't see it, it won't affect you.

[DAS]

Ya it happens.

If it helps, it is highly doubtful that she intended it as a message to you. Far too rationale a thought - stop projecting!

More likely she was mad cause she'd painted you black and cropped the picture after the breakup. And hasn't been motivated to change it... .

[T2H]

More likely she was mad cause she'd painted you black and cropped the picture after the breakup. And hasn't been motivated to change it... .

I agree.

[ozzanoid24]

we are both cropped out of the picture but just wierd to see that. I mean, we definetly were in both of the picture. And yes, that is too rational of a thought... .

i guess I am projecting a little bit. huh.

[DAS]

we are both cropped out of the picture but just wierd to see that. I mean, we definetly were in both of the picture. And yes, that is too rational of a thought... .

i guess I am projecting a little bit. huh.

For a while after the break-up with her prior ex, my BPDex changed her facebook profile so that she wasn't recognizable in the picture. I think it's a hide reaction... .

[16floorsup]

What is it with Facebook!  I almost wish I never joined or new anything about it, because it causes more harm especially after a breakup than anything.  When we were in the middle of breaking up, my ex broke into my facebook (she had a good idea of my password and I unfortunately forgot she knew it), and changed my status to Single for me.  I had no idea it was done till I had a buddy of mine ask me when I became single again.  Unreal!  Not to mention she went through my Inbox and found what she thinks is dirt against me (Over a year ago we broke up for 4 months, and I was venting with a friend, but amazingly looking back it wasn't all that bad).  Well, she said "now I know how you really felt about me all along".

As far as the profile picture, she hadn't changed it for a couple years, then a few weeks later she changed it to her on vacation (the one we were supposed to take) with her two boys, looking as if they were having a blast and very happy.  There is no doubt in my mind this was done to get a rise out of me knowing the circumstances.  It is part of the manipulative game my exBPgf played all along.  Therefore, I truly would not put it past your ex for placing that picture up there for no other reason but to give her a feeling of control.  PwBPD are the masters of projection, so I wouldn't put any question into your instincts.  It probably was done for a reason, and the reason is probably what you think it is.  Reminds me of Occam's Razor:  "The simplest answer is usually the right answer".

[ozzanoid24]

What is it with Facebook! , I truly would not put it past your ex for placing that picture up there for no other reason but to give her a feeling of control.  PwBPD are the masters of projection, so I wouldn't put any question into your instincts.  It probably was done for a reason, and the reason is probably what you think it is.  Reminds me of Occam's Razor:  "The simplest answer is usually the right answer".

I guess I am kinda confused on what you mean.

[DAS]

What is it with Facebook! , I truly would not put it past your ex for placing that picture up there for no other reason but to give her a feeling of control.  PwBPD are the masters of projection, so I wouldn't put any question into your instincts.  It probably was done for a reason, and the reason is probably what you think it is.  Reminds me of Occam's Razor:  "The simplest answer is usually the right answer".

I guess I am kinda confused on what you mean.

Ditto.

I still maintain that our understanding and perception of "reason" is utterly different than a pwBPD. I really think the only "reason" they have for doing anything at any time is cause they felt like it. Nothing ever was "simple" in my dealings with a pwBPD. Nothing.

[ozzanoid24]

that makes a little better sense. I guess I shouldn't be as suprised  as I was to see the picture that way. It was just surreal to see it that way I guess.

[16floorsup]

I still maintain that our understanding and perception of "reason" is utterly different than a pwBPD. I really think the only "reason" they have for doing anything at any time is cause they felt like it. Nothing ever was "simple" in my dealings with a pwBPD. Nothing.

That's assuming that they are truly Insane, for which they really are not.  They are just stuck in very often a 2-3 year old mindset, that gets reinforced in early teenage years often with physical, emotional, or sexual abuse.  But, many are Highly Functioning individuals, and very intelligent at that.  In fact, my exBPgf is a Biochemist (although who knows for how long considering she can't hold a job for more than 5 years).  So, she can be rational, and in fact, I often would see an Adult side to her, and would even express how much I like this side of her, for which it was in these time periods that she would rationally understand that she would do things wrong.  Unfortunately, we get confused with Insanity because they often disassociate, and revert back (way more often than the typical person, but that is not to say we do not do the same because we all have childlike tendencies).  The difference is that their Personality is trained to revert back to that thinking as a defense mechanism on a regular basis for even minor stressors causing it to be a Disorder, rather than with a typical personality that may only revert back to a earlier age under severe stress.  

Therefore, I understand thinking that she doesn't have the where with all to make decisions, and only does what she wants, but I don't think this is true.  They are the masters of manipulation, and the lords of deception, meaning they do know how to push our buttons, and ingeniously make us think something we shouldn't think.  I believe the confusion you felt by saying nothing was "simple" was a lot more planned than you realized.  Remaining the "Victim" is a conscious thought pattern that would come to them when they were either feeling pressured or trapped (hence the "push" or feeling abandoned (hence the "pull".  So, they consciously do not want to take blame for anything, because they consciously would have to face all the pain and hurt they have caused, and thus the manipulation and deception to remain a "victim".  

Thus, I still believe this was a chance at manipulating ozzanoid24, because she knows that he will look at it, and knows that he question it.  It gives her control.  It gives her a sense of being a "victim" by making him notice it, miss her, and long for understanding why he and her were removed from the picture.  Haven't you ever done something that actually was probably manipulative, but it was pretty sly in that even you made yourself believe it was okay?  I think this is their thought pattern.  They manipulate, but also make themselves believe it is okay or rationalize they are the victims so they are allowed to do this, like a child who is hurting and angry.  As a child, it was okay to do mean things in retaliation to make yourself feel better or the "Victim".  Unfortunately, those mean things as an adult become cheating, abuse, and so on, versus tripping, telling, crying, or not sharing as a child.  Again, the masters of manipulation, but also extremely understanding and sensitive to others reactions and emotions, to the point of knowing the subconscious ways of manipulating us.

Sorry if this is confusing.  Unfortunately or fortunately however you look at it, I've done a lot of research on this trying to understand how and why my exBPgf did the things she did, and I've spoken to a few different psychiatrist/psychologists about this and from what I've gathered this is the mainstream thinking right now on their actions.  So, to sum it up I do believe this was a manipulation attempt at ozzanoid24, and he should go with his gut on it.

By the way, did you know that pwBPD actually on occasion spontaneously improve usually in their late 30's and 40's.  I guess they learn coping skills after the many years of traumatizing themselves and others.  I just thought that was interesting.

[T2H]

By the way, did you know that pwBPD actually on occasion spontaneously improve usually in their late 30's and 40's.  I guess they learn coping skills after the many years of traumatizing themselves and others.  I just thought that was interesting.

I read this too a while ago - but since then I've heard more along the lines that they get worse with age... .

[DAS]

16floors... .

I agree there is some degree of conscious choice in pwBPD. When my BPDex made her decision to stop engaging with me, it was a radically different experience than the short-term push-pulls that I mark as BPD induced.

I also agree that pwBPD can present an extremely rational, responsible, professional image. But I think the random feeling monkey is still going on inside and this is the part they reveal to those who they are close to.

And I'm not sure - but doesn't assigning them the role of "manipulator" make us nons the victim?

[szia]

And I'm not sure - but doesn't assigning them the role of "manipulator" make us nons the victim?

I would agree with that. As hard as it is to make it a practice, I oftentimes see their actions as uncontrolled. Manipulation requires executive function - something with which the pwBPD struggles. They are so caged by their emotions that I gather a lot of the activity that appears manipulative is actually a defensive act, totally reptilian, and impulsive.

At the end of the day, however, those actions feel manipulative to a Non. And that's what counts. We were not created to engage with one another in that manner. If even seemingly manipulative behaviors can cause the same harm as actual manipulative behaviors, then it doesn't matter what the intent is behind the action. Only how it feels to us. Unhealthy. End of story.

[DAS]

If even seemingly manipulative behaviors can cause the same harm as actual manipulative behaviors, then it doesn't matter what the intent is behind the action. Only how it feels to us. Unhealthy. End of story.

QFT

[ozzanoid24]

16floor


I do follow your story and I think it was well put about being manipulated. I mean, bam she jumps from one place to another. I am not going to beat up myself anymore but I will be paying close attention to those red flags next time i am in a situation to watch for them.   

I think maybe it is some dark secret that she suffered and now has BPD and SHE IS WELL AWARE. She knows she has it, has been diagnosed and takes meds so I know she has a grasp on it. I even remember her telling her mom how she could get anything she wants from her ex, "NOW CURRENT re second time" boyfriend... .  wow... .

[T2H]

Some have a bit more more N (or socio) mixed in there, so they are likely more often the conscious manipulators.

My exBPDgf (waif) was completely reactionary/defensive in her behaviors.  It still often seemed like manipulation but looking at it after the fact, it was never to set something up in advance to get her way / what she wanted, it was always an attempt to control something currently happening that would cause her to stop getting it.

[ozzanoid24]

ok I may already know this answer, so sorry for asking,

But way back 4 months ago when I broke contact, I sent messages and phone calls on her bday, she never responded back or anything so It feels like I am completely erased or anything.

So really, is all of this because she doesn't need me right now?  I just imagined to recieve random phone calls or messages but I am wondering in her sick mind is she trying or already erased me even though she is the one that left? you know what I mean?

[T2H]

Yes.  No.  Maybe.  Who knows!  Does it matter?

You're on the Leaving board... .  part of disengaging is eliminating the speculations on what our ex's are now doing and what that means.

Don't misunderstand.  We're here to support you - but that means helping you understand yourself, not what a pwBPD may or may not be doing.  So how does this affect you?  Why is it important to you to know the answer?

[DAS]

ok I may already know this answer, so sorry for asking,

But way back 4 months ago when I broke contact, I sent messages and phone calls on her bday, she never responded back or anything so It feels like I am completely erased or anything.

So really, is all of this because she doesn't need me right now?  I just imagined to recieve random phone calls or messages but I am wondering in her sick mind is she trying or already erased me even though she is the one that left? you know what I mean?

I don't know that we ever get completely erased. Like it feels like that to me too sometimes.

Essentially though I ask you this - what matters it to you what is going on in her "sick" mind?

What is important is what they did and how that made you feel. It is about not repeating the same mistake. It is, has to be, 100% about you.

Stop wasting time and energy trying to figure out WHY the pwBPD does anything. I think I've already answered that in this thread. They do what they feel like doing.

And - although it hurts just as much - don't you think that being erased is probably easier than facing constant attempts to reengage?

[ozzanoid24]

ok I may already know this answer, so sorry for asking,

But way back 4 months ago when I broke contact, I sent messages and phone calls on her bday, she never responded back or anything so It feels like I am completely erased or anything.

So really, is all of this because she doesn't need me right now?  I just imagined to recieve random phone calls or messages but I am wondering in her sick mind is she trying or already erased me even though she is the one that left? you know what I mean?

I don't know that we ever get completely erased. Like it feels like that to me too sometimes.

Essentially though I ask you this - what matters it to you what is going on in her "sick" mind?

What is important is what they did and how that made you feel. It is about not repeating the same mistake. It is, has to be, 100% about you.

Stop wasting time and energy trying to figure out WHY the pwBPD does anything. I think I've already answered that in this thread. They do what they feel like doing.

And - although it hurts just as much - don't you think that being erased is probably easier than facing constant attempts to reengage?

 

ya that last part is true.  They are prolly pretty good at it by now.  Let it go is what I need to do, but it makes me wonder sometimes...

[DAS]

ya that last part is true.  They are prolly pretty good at it by now.  Let it go is what I need to do, but it makes me wonder sometimes...

Fair enough mate   

[16floorsup]

Unfortunately, I think they do erase you from their mind for the most part.  Not to get too scientific on this, but I think it has to do with "Object Constancy" or the lack of it in the case of pwBPD.  I think they have such a feeling of despair that they just don't even go there, put the blame all on your shoulders to maintain the "victim" role and then move on to the next person, putting all their focus and energy on them, not even thinking of the past other than how "bad" we were.  

This is actually the part that stings the most for me.  In fact, I think when I am in a FOG, like I seem to be right now, I'm thinking about this the most.  How could she tell me "I could never be with anyone else" and of course how much she loved me, then say a month later "I don't love you anymore" and move on so fast, it is as if it didn't happen.  And yet, I'm stuck with all the pain and hurt, and can't seem to let it go for longer than a day or two at a time.  I actually just realized something yesterday.  I'm at 3 months since we broke up, and that is the exact amount of time it took her to get over her 7 year marriage and move on to me the first time we were together -- a major reason I couldn't go exclusive with her then.  My rational side understands all this, but my heart still stings.  

So, I feel you Ozzanoid24, and can understand how you found yourself wanting to say or do something for her birthday.  Unfortunately, this is breaking NC, and you are reconnecting yourself, and having to start over each time you do that.  I look forward to the day when my heart has no memory of her anymore.

[ozzanoid24]

Unfortunately, I think they do erase you from their mind for the most part.  Not to get too scientific on this, but I think it has to do with "Object Constancy" or the lack of it in the case of pwBPD.  I think they have such a feeling of despair that they just don't even go there, put the blame all on your shoulders to maintain the "victim" role and then move on to the next person, putting all their focus and energy on them, not even thinking of the past other than how "bad" we were.  

This is actually the part that stings the most for me.  In fact, I think when I am in a FOG, like I seem to be right now, I'm thinking about this the most.  How could she tell me "I could never be with anyone else" and of course how much she loved me, then say a month later "I don't love you anymore" and move on so fast, it is as if it didn't happen.  And yet, I'm stuck with all the pain and hurt, and can't seem to let it go for longer than a day or two at a time.  I actually just realized something yesterday.  I'm at 3 months since we broke up, and that is the exact amount of time it took her to get over her 7 year marriage and move on to me the first time we were together -- a major reason I couldn't go exclusive with her then.  My rational side understands all this, but my heart still stings.  

So, I feel you Ozzanoid24, and can understand how you found yourself wanting to say or do something for her birthday.  Unfortunately, this is breaking NC, and you are reconnecting yourself, and having to start over each time you do that.  I look forward to the day when my heart has no memory of her anymore.

well nothing happend. so no big deal about the contact ,that was almost 4 months ago.

Anyhow. I havent talked to her even longer than that.

I been thinking, talking to her will do absolutly no good . what can come out of it? The ultimate way is to remain NC. I mean, she isnt contacting me, so why should I do for her? If i did, it would just lead to more accustations of not contacting her or being accused of things i never did so what is the point. what is the point of this. what is the point of BPD.   need a break...

[DAS]

well nothing happend. so no big deal about the contact ,that was almost 4 months ago.

Anyhow. I havent talked to her even longer than that.

I been thinking, talking to her will do absolutly no good . what can come out of it? The ultimate way is to remain NC. I mean, she isnt contacting me, so why should I do for her? If i did, it would just lead to more accustations of not contacting her or being accused of things i never did so what is the point. what is the point of this. what is the point of BPD.   need a break...

 

[ozzanoid24]

ya

[ozzanoid24]

sometimes though I never think i am goingto move out of this. Sometimes I want to just scream and call \her and let her know how I feel about this BPD S***.  I understand it wont do any good but it just is so frusterating.

[goldstar]

Totally understand. But I think we think one way and they think another and we will never get the "I'm sorry" or "I did you wrong." Some thing a "normal" person would say.

I think they have such a feeling of despair that they just don't even go there, put the blame all on your shoulders to maintain the "victim" role and then move on to the next person, putting all their focus and energy on them, not even thinking of the past other than how "bad" we were. 

yep. I struggle with how is he so nice to his new gf. He never treated me that nice. stupid, but I struggle. Facebook is horrid. My kids have him on facebook, of course, that's their dad. Well, 2 of my kids don't, but that's another story. But yesterday morning, I went to Facebook and it was my dd page and right there in front of my eyes was him saying to his gf -- "You're the best, Honey" and her response -- "Thank you so much for yesterday. I love you deeply. Can't wait to spend the weekend with you."

ouch. whatever though. I don't miss him. He was horrid. still... .there's the -- Hey, why am I treated so badly? but whatever.

I think, for me and because my xBPDh is high functioning, I think definitely if he did something like that on Facebook -- cutting you out of a picture -- yes, definitely it was intentional. But that's just my take.

I try and stay away from his Facebook stuff -- he's blocked -- but sometimes it's staring right at ya.

I'm sorry Ozz. It's hard. It stinks.