Suicidal?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

So I have been away from these boards for a couple of weeks because of my daughters surgery... .

I did my best to keep that from her as I knew I was hugely vulnerable... . but a mutual friend posted about it on fb so I know she saw it... .

I have her blocked but I can tell she is usually very active on fb because of numerous mutual friends... . (weird comment threads where missing pieces are left out... . her name in the comments etc... . )

Normally it doesn't bother me but since my friend posted about my daughters surgery she has been absolutely silent... which is weird as she has no social life beyond fb because of her medical issues.

Even weirder, she is trying to get rid of her dog whom she adored and had been training as a service dog.  A weird series of events led me to seeing a response from her on cl to someone I know looking for a dog.  I so did not intend or want to see that!

So... . I may be jumping the gun here, but she has been suicidal numerous times before.  The last being when she bought a gun back before we recycled in October.  We have been split for over 12 weeks this time.

Anyway, she follows a pattern with her suicide attempts.  She drops off social media, looks to rehoming her dog and starts throwing away everything that she owns.

Now I don't know about the trashing things.  I refuse to stalk her garbage can 

But I am concerned about her.  I do not want her back in my life... . I am healing slowly, but surely and I never want to hurt like that again thanks.

But my question is my responsibility here.  I feel like I should say something to someone, yet this is not my business nor my problem any more.   I don't hate her, I don't want her dead... . so this is where my "care taking" comes in.

I have maintained a strict nc besides exchanging stuff... . and I do not want to break that.  However guilt, perceived or otherwise is running thru my head.

I just need a dose of reality from you all.

I keep telling myself, she alone is responsible for the choices that she makes... . good and bad.  I do not know what's best for her... . and I could be wrong of course.  But the only other times she has done this a suicide threat/attempt followed.  And she lives completely alone.

So now she is stuck in my brain again and I hate that... . and I am pretty sure I can't and shouldn't do anything... . but still I suppose I need to hear others opinions.

[Allmessedup]

So I have been away from these boards for a couple of weeks because of my daughters surgery... .

I did my best to keep that from her as I knew I was hugely vulnerable... . but a mutual friend posted about it on fb so I know she saw it... .

I have her blocked but I can tell she is usually very active on fb because of numerous mutual friends... . (weird comment threads where missing pieces are left out... . her name in the comments etc... . )

Normally it doesn't bother me but since my friend posted about my daughters surgery she has been absolutely silent... which is weird as she has no social life beyond fb because of her medical issues.

Even weirder, she is trying to get rid of her dog whom she adored and had been training as a service dog.  A weird series of events led me to seeing a response from her on cl to someone I know looking for a dog.  I so did not intend or want to see that!

So... . I may be jumping the gun here, but she has been suicidal numerous times before.  The last being when she bought a gun back before we recycled in October.  We have been split for over 12 weeks this time.

Anyway, she follows a pattern with her suicide attempts.  She drops off social media, looks to rehoming her dog and starts throwing away everything that she owns.

Now I don't know about the trashing things.  I refuse to stalk her garbage can 

But I am concerned about her.  I do not want her back in my life... . I am healing slowly, but surely and I never want to hurt like that again thanks.

But my question is my responsibility here.  I feel like I should say something to someone, yet this is not my business nor my problem any more.   I don't hate her, I don't want her dead... . so this is where my "care taking" comes in.

I have maintained a strict nc besides exchanging stuff... . and I do not want to break that.  However guilt, perceived or otherwise is running thru my head.

I just need a dose of reality from you all.

I keep telling myself, she alone is responsible for the choices that she makes... . good and bad.  I do not know what's best for her... . and I could be wrong of course.  But the only other times she has done this a suicide threat/attempt followed.  And she lives completely alone.

So now she is stuck in my brain again and I hate that... . and I am pretty sure I can't and shouldn't do anything... . but still I suppose I need to hear others opinions.

[fromheeltoheal]

But my question is my responsibility here.  I feel like I should say something to someone, yet this is not my business nor my problem any more.   I don't hate her, I don't want her dead... . so this is where my "care taking" comes in.

I have maintained a strict nc besides exchanging stuff... . and I do not want to break that.  However guilt, perceived or otherwise is running thru my head.

You're right, and good awareness that your care taking is kicking in.  Guilt is part of the FOG, so common it earned a spot in the acronym, and it's very beneficial to look at why you feel that way.  I felt very guilty in my relationship, partly because I'm wired that way and partly because everything was always my fault.  Untangling what was mine and what was hers has been very beneficial in my own growth.

It's very easy to kill yourself, and if someone wanted to there's nothing anyone could do to stop it.  People who talk about it usually don't mean it, they are crying for help.  You know this.  Better to focus on you exclusively, and avoid those Facebook and craigslist stalks; we've all done it and it doesn't help.  Take care of you!

[Allmessedup]

Thanks heeltoheal,

Your right... . I did believe everything was my fault... . I am working on that... . I know I played a huge role in our breakup, but not the entire role by far.  I have a nice little list for when I start to forget that.

The cl thing was completely accidental, a friend forwarded me a reply to her post to see what I thought about the dog, and she has no idea about my ex... . but I suppose I have been stalking fb some... . especially since she has been conspicuously silent... . I need to get my focus back on me again...

And I do know your right,  I know if she wants to kill herself she will.  I have gone thru many suicide attempts with her.  It's funny, I used to think she never called for help.  But repeating a pattern is a call in so many ways, and there was always something she said or did that made me think that she was suicidal... . especially as the years passed.  Little clues she dropped somehow.  So I could rush in and rescue/save her.

Hmmmm.

That is something I need to think about.  She knows me very, very well. 

This split is the first time I have stayed away from her.  No begging, cajoling, no tears.  She wanted to leave and I simply let her.that was her choice.  I simply chose to respect that choice and in doing so I found my way out of that FOG and back to myself.

This too is her choice.  I am not a mind reader. My feelings aren't facts.  I don't actually KNOW anything at all, I only feel concerned.  Maybe I am right, maybe I am not.  But if she chooses to commit suicide that is not MY fault regardless. 

I needed to hear this... . thank you.

She is no longer part of my life, nor is she part of my future.  She is not and never was my responsibility.  If she wants help she knows where to get it... . if she doesn't there was nothing anyone could do anyway... . especially me.

Thanks heeltoheal!

[Want2know]

I see from a prior post that you have 4 children.  I'm not sure of the details of what happened with your daughter (has she been in therapy, diagnosed?), however I am curious about the relationship with her and your other 3 children.  Do they have any contact with her?

[Allmessedup]

Hi want2know.

Good memory!  I do have four kids...

My daughter had open heart surgery 2 weeks ago... . neither she nor any of my other kids are BPD...

I think I was not clear... . my exgf girl friend is the one whom I suspect to be suicidal... . my kids are doing great:)

But my kids no longer have any contact with her.  When they did they only knew her as my friend.

Does that answer what you were looking for?

Amu

[Want2know]

I think I was not clear... . my exgf girl friend is the one whom I suspect to be suicidal... . my kids are doing great:)

I think it was more likely my early morning brain before having coffee.  

So, I'm assuming you do not have any direct contact with your ex anymore.  I understand reading the signs of her behavior through the limited information you had recently, and agree it's best to stear clear of it unless there is some type of direct interaction/threat/behavior where calling 911 would be the best route - let the professionals do what they do.

[Allmessedup]

Lol.

I wrote that post way late last night so I figured I wasn't clear:) I so understand the pre coffee brain!

No, nc for 12 weeks now.  And for that I am grateful!  It's been hard... . horribly hard at times.  But I am getting thru it.

I think that you are right.  If she contacts me somehow with a suicide threat I can call 911... . otherwise I will let it go.  She is a grown woman and does not need me or anyone else to take care of her... . or to save her.

Thanks!

[Want2know]

I think that you are right.  If she contacts me somehow with a suicide threat I can call 911... . otherwise I will let it go. 

If you haven't had a chance to review our suicide protocol, please take a look at it.  It can help to know how to handle situations, such as direct threats, as a precaution.

Here is the link (you can also access it by clicking on the red Emergency button at the bottom of each thread):  https://bpdfamily.com/discussions/search-info3.htm

[Skip]

Guilt is part of the FOG, so common it earned a spot in the acronym, and it's very beneficial to look at why you feel that way.  I felt very guilty in my relationship, partly because I'm wired that way and partly because everything was always my fault.  Untangling what was mine and what was hers has been very beneficial in my own growth.

fromheeltoheal makes a great point here.  You feel fear and obligation and you want to detach from that.  "beneficial in my own growth."  Good stuff.

The cl thing was completely accidental, a friend forwarded me a reply to her post to see what I thought about the dog, and she has no idea about my ex... . but I suppose I have been stalking fb some... . especially since she has been conspicuously silent... . I need to get my focus back on me again... .

Let's assume, magically,  you have already shed the "FOG" and the negative feelings about the relationship - how might you feel about what you have learned (remember, she made no effort to communicate with you).  Let's face it, selling the dog is a significant signs of suicidal ideation.  

Suicide typically takes place when someone in suicidal ideation impulsively reacts to a bad feeling one day. Imagine that you went with her to a casino and she played the roulette wheel 6 times and didn't ick the win number.  Would you conclude that she will never pick it?  Or would you conclude that if she hangs around long enough the odds of her picking a win number go way up - and that the very next bet might be a win number.  Think of suicidal ideation this way.

So what obligation do you have?  Probably none, as you say. You can walk away.  No one will sue you.  No one will judge you.

I'd ask myself three questions:

1. What is my humanity for this person - how much do I want to help her out of sheer goodness in my heart?  

2. What are appropriate and healthy conditions given the state of the relationship?

3. What would be helpful in her eyes?  She may not want help or there may be a narrow range for what she thinks is healthy or appropriate.

What is it that would meet all three criteria?  

I might look at that - it will likely generate some fairly narrow options.  Once you have them clear in your mind, you can decide if you want to exercise one.

What is it that would meet all three criteria?  

[pinkparchment]

Oh Amu. This is such a hard situation. I worry based on our relationship that my ex will commit suicide also. She's tried a couple of times and has a "deadline" in her head that if she hasn't found a life partner and had children by a specific age she's going to kill herself. The last time she did something that made me obsessively worried about her (stopped showing up to class after getting out of the psych hospital) I drove all night to check on her and "Save" her.

I called and left her all kinds of messages saying I was going to drive down there, and at any point she could have reached out and let me know that she was OK. She didn't. And then, after driving for six hours, she refused to see me. Went out somewhere and finally e-mailed me to say she was done.

Fury doesn't even begin to describe what I felt. That was the moment I realized that she positively FED off of my devotion. She could have saved me that drive, I could have gone home to my kids, I could have slept. One word in an e-mail was all it would have taken. But she LET ME come up there to prove to her that I would still, after two weeks of being brutally ignored, put my entire life on hold for her. And it was like knowing that gave her the boost she needed to truly break me. That's the last contact we've had.

So, I share this because I think you are dead on with your assessment of the situation. If your ex knows you well enough to know you check on her periodically or that word will get through to you about her rehousing her dog, etc, this could very well be a "pull" mechanism to again test exactly how much you care for her. She wants to know--have you REALLY moved on or does she still have a grip on you?

We're human beings, and of course we don't stop caring about people simply because we've broken up or even because they've hurt us terribly. It's natural to always be concerned for someone we loved and shared a snippet of our lives with. But you have four little human beings who need a sane, functional mommy and your primary responsibility is to them and to yourself! They are your job, SHE is not! You are dealing with so much right now. I hope everything went well with your daughter, that must be incredibly scary. Good luck and head up.

[Allmessedup]

Thank you all for your responses!

I am a psych nurse so I am unfortunately really familiar with suicide attempts and am certified in suicide  intervention.

Skip, you ask good, hard questions.

How much do I want to help her out of the sheer goodness of my heart?

  I want to help her... . very much.  Not any less than I would be prompted to help a stranger or a client.  However at that point they are calling or coming to me for help. She is not... . but I care for her more than a stranger or a client as well

What are the appropriate and healthy conditions given the state of the relationship? 

She has made no move to contact me other than try to follow me on Pinterest.  Right after the break up I told her I was always here for her.  She said she didn't even want to remain friends.  She unfriended me, I blocked her on all social media.  I however did not block her texts or email as there was no reason to... .

So that leads to the third question... .

What would be helpful in her eyes?

I am a trigger to her I know this.  She is diagnosed (in her late teens) and went thru years of therapy, but she has told me she is "fixed" yet terrified of being thought of as "crazy" again.  Selling the dog tells me she is very much contemplating suicide, but she didn't plan on me finding that out.  Neither did I for that matter.  I suspect if I was to get involved it would result in two things... . one she would eventually see me as controlling all over again even if (and that would be a big if) she was appreciative of the help.  We have many mutual friends and I have considered going to one of them to intervene, but that is just starting a darn triangle again.

I feel like I am stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Pink parchment you brought up points that I considered too.  What if this is some crazy game to see how much I am still invested in her.  But then again I wouldn't know about the dog rehoming other than accidentally.

But even if I chose to intervene by reaching out to her where does that honestly leave me?  Selfish or not, this breakup has damaged me so much... . I am working hard on me and coming out of the FOG over the last 3 months, but I am not far enough out that I couldn't be sucked back in in a heartbeat. We were involved for 3.5 years... . friends for many years before that.  It is so hard to break that bond

I see that ever since getting that email my thoughts are back to being consumed by her.  I hate that!

But it prompts me to realize I am not nearly as far along ask thought I was.

So I feel that I am at an impasse... .

[seeking balance]

AMU,

Tricky situation and you have gotten sound advice.

I recall you are a psych nurse and you met her through work - am I remembering correctly?

[Allmessedup]

Yes sb... .

She was a mental health tech... . That's why I know she knows what her options are... . she did suicide crisis calls all the time... .

[seeking balance]

Yes sb... .

She was a mental health tech... . That's why I know she knows what her options are... . she did suicide crisis calls all the time... .

Honestly, I don't know what I would do in your shoes, but here is where I would start -answering and analyzing these questions.

I'd ask myself three questions:

1. What is my humanity for this person - how much do I want to help her out of sheer goodness in my heart? 

2. What are appropriate and healthy conditions given the state of the relationship?

3. What would be helpful in her eyes?  She may not want help or there may be a narrow range for what she thinks is healthy or appropriate.

What is it that would meet all three criteria? 

I might look at that - it will likely generate some fairly narrow options.  Once you have them clear in your mind, you can decide if you want to exercise one.

What is it that would meet all three criteria? 

Analyze it here if you need a sounding board for your own thoughts.

[Allmessedup]

Sb.

I analyzed them aloud in a couple posts above... .   I am not good at quoting from my ipad so you might have to look close?

[seeking balance]

Sorry AMU - I skimmed that but didn't put 2+2 - my bad.

Rock & Hard place indeed.  It doesn't sound like she is looking for you to save her, but I can see where your concern comes from.

If you did get a 3rd party involved to help her - what would that look like? (not saying to do it, just asking what it would be)... . HR, a friend, other professional - who would it be since it doesn't sound like it would be in either of your best interests for it to be you doing the talking directly to her.

[Allmessedup]

No worries!  If I try to quote from the ipad I end up with the whole post quoted so it makes it confusing.

The only person I could get involved would be a mutual friend... . however I am not sure I want to involve her.  She has used this friend in a triangle between us before when we were together... . and I suspected she was going to be my replacement.  I do not talk to this friend about my ex.  I did a lot when we first broke up... . but I realized I was Triangulation her then and I really don't want to become involved with all of that again.

I am so new to setting boundaries I am afraid to be too lax in them but also I don't want to be stringent either if that makes any sense?

I could in theory tell this friend that I stumbled on the reply for the dog and that it's part of the pattern of suicidal ideation she has shown before.

However back when we first broke up I told the friend all of this... . about the suicide attempts and the patterns as well.  The issue is this mutual friend is actually out of town currently as well, so there is little she can do from where she is at anyway... .

Sigh, it's such a mess!

I do not think it is in my best interest to talk with her... . and likely not in hers.  However the possibility of suicide has me reevaluating this and that's where I am stuck... .

[Want2know]

I've gone through something similar with my ex after we broke up.  Without getting into much detail, what it comes down to is what can you live with in your conscience (I believe that is what Skip was trying to get into with his hard questions).  

I understand wanting to not get involved with her personally, and you've stated some good reasons not to.  I also understand that the mutual friend you think you could share this with would not be able to assist right now.

You have stated some solid thinking about it all, which is not surprising based upon your background.  Putting all your personal stuff aside (which I know can be difficult), and going back to your training, what would you suggest to someone, such as yourself, who called into your office to speak with you about their situation?

Just probing a bit more in hopes it will get you to a solid place with your decision so that you do not question it.   

[Allmessedup]

I appreciate all the advice and hard questions!  I need that right now!

I think at this point there is not much I can do honestly.  And I believe at this point I have some time... . or I hope I do.

The dog rehoming thing was a response to a post my friend placed.  I advised my friend not to respond.  My ex dog is fabulous, but I don't want to have this friend end up with him for a number of reasons.  And although she may or may not have responded to others posts of seeking a dog, I did search cl and did not find one of her offering up her dog for rehoming... . if that makes any sense? 

I do not believe that she will do anything unless she has a place for him first... . I could be wrong, I haven't spoken to her in 3 months... . but she does love that dog to pieces.


It's a hard choice... .

I would tell someone who called me about this that likely they would do more harm than potential good given the status of the relationship.

Back in October when I had to go pull a gun out of her hands and subsequently return it I told her if she ever did this again I would have her hospitalized.  She is terrified of that.  I did not do it to scare her, but to set my own boundaries over what I would tolerate.  I do believe that was the one and only time I did that.  I have dealt with many suicidal people.  In person and on the phone... . but that was the hardest thing I have ever had to do.  Looking back I know I should have handled that differently then, but hindsight is 20/20 and I was way way deep in the FOG.

The one option that occurred to me was to get in touch with her son with whom I was very close.  He however is not happy with his mother about the break up and again that is that damn Triangulation again.

I honestly can't see a way out of this that won't end badly.

If I get involved and she doesn't commit suicide then I am still involved again

If I get involved and she still does commit suicide then I was not enough all over again

If I don't get involved and she does commit suicide then I will feel horrible for not doing so

If I don't get involved and she doesn't commit suicide is the only positive outcome... . but it's shaky as hell

It is my nature to help.  And admittedly I am codependent but I really would help anyone in this situation so I feel selfish for not getting involved.  And really rules don't apply in a suicidal intervention.  Privacy is violated almost always.

However me being the one to violate that privacy is a whole other issue altogether.  She already says I am controlling and manipulative... . this would feed that.  I am not some stranger on the suicide prevention hotline.

I do not think there is an easy answer here.  If I totally disregard my feelings on all of this   I still do not honestly know if my getting involved would help or hurt her.

And even if it helps this time... . what about the next? 

[Want2know]

And even if it helps this time... . what about the next?  

Good point.  

Not to get too much into my situation, however, I did become 'involved' a few times (during and after our r/s) - he had tried 2x seriously before I met him, so I took his threats seriously, and they were direct.

After now being detached from the relationship for a fairly long period of time, it would be unfathomable for me to intervene without him directly contacting me with a threat.

I do have contact with his daughters, and if they were to indicate something that might make me feel that he was on that path again, I would advise them of our protocol, and let them handle the situation.  If I didn't have that link to his daughters, I wouldn't know what was going on, and it would be a circumstance beyond my ability.

[Allmessedup]

And I suppose that is  just it.  I would worry less if it was just suicidal ideation.  But in the past it has never been.  It has always been planned out to the last detail.  Attempts have in fact been made in the past as well.  That is much more serious to consider.

However this is far from new.  She attempted suicide many times in her younger years.  That is what ended her up hospitalized and subsequently dx with BPD.  She has attempted twice in our relationship and has had suicidal ideation with a plan multiple times.

The years between her earlier suicide attempts and the more current ones she had her children to consider.  Now they are grown and in college and she sees herself as more of a burden to them then a help. 

The son I am close to she is hugely protective of.  He does not know even the extent of her medical problems let alone the mental/emotional ones.  And I of course helped her cover that all up from him.  She will never let him know anything ahead of time... .

Fact is, I can see where she is at.  She is unemployed due to disability (physical) she has her kids living hundreds of miles away, her health is declining dramatically from what I have heard and she is isolated. 

Hopeless/helpless is huge right now.

But this is a cycle for her.  It is something I went thru with her when we were together, and it won't stop now that we are apart. 

I am wondering something off topic a bit here... .

She painted me black... . but with me gone her problems did not get better, they got worse.  Isn't possible for them to paint themselves black?  And if that is possible then is that playing into things here?

Like I said, I know her well... . and I think I have a bit of time.  I am going to continue to investigate my feelings and my motives here.  I will simply just stand still for a bit.  Hopefully some sort of solution will be found somehow... .

Thanks for your post want2know! 

[Want2know]

She painted me black... . but with me gone her problems did not get better, they got worse.  Isn't possible for them to paint themselves black?  And if that is possible then is that playing into things here?

If you mean does she have shame (ie. painting herself black), I would assume so, but my guess is that's not anything new.  It just cycles depending on the situation.

Like I said, I know her well... . and I think I have a bit of time.  I am going to continue to investigate my feelings and my motives here.  I will simply just stand still for a bit.  Hopefully some sort of solution will be found somehow... .

That sounds reasonable.  You know the reality of what's going on.  Sleep on it.  Read a book, watch a comedy, meditate, take a bath... . something that soothes you and can bring you back to yourself.  It's good you are talking about this.  Perhaps someone at work can give you some additional insight tomorrow, if that is something you want to pursue.

[Allmessedup]

In regards to painting herself black...

I know she holds a ton of shame!  And it does cycle.

I suppose my line of thinking comes from both suicide attempts as well as idealization has come off a break up.  We recycled many many many times

There is something lingering in the recesses of my brain about that and I need to think on it more I suppose, but this whole thing cycles.

I mean the pattern repeats itself over and over.  Things are ok, some event gets her all depressed, she gets angry with me, she destroys things and/or gets suicidal, I come back, "rescue her" take all the blame and we repeat over and over again

For about 10 months it happened once a month like freaking clockwork.  For the last 6 months or so it was twice a month... . give or take... .

It was just the same thing over and over again... . for 3.5 years.

I suppose my thinking is this... . and it's going to sound egotistical I suppose but whatever.

She feels engulfed and controlled by me, she breaks it off, she realizes she doesn't do well without me, she gets hugely depressed because of that,  I come back and "fix" it and all can be ok for a bit until the same thing happens.

I just am so so so tired of the cycle and have no interest in repeating all of it.


But your right... . I think for now so e distance from this would do me a world of good... . tomorrow is a new day:)

Thanks for listening!

[seeking balance]

AMU - you seen to have really worked through this logically on how you are going to act (not react) for the short term.

I know it doesn't change the fact that you are scared and sad this cycle with her - this is hard to watch. 

Right now, you do have a lot on your plate - I do hope you can find a little quiet time for YOU to recharge the batteries a bit.

Peace,

SB

[Allmessedup]

Thanks for the validation and advice sb

I went to bed early (for me) last night and slept better than I have in a very long time.

That was good for me. As was sharing the latest issue with my ex.

I have made it one of my goals to stop reacting to everything that happensin my life.  Not just with my ex but with everything. 

Feelings are feelings, not facts 

Today I woke up in a very different mindset.  And I think a bit more clear.

For now I will do nothing. 

I am codependent, I am a helper, a fixer.  I like being in control so that I can feel safe.  These are things I have learned about myself thru this journey.

Help is not really help unless it is wanted.  She has not turned to me over this.  If I swoop in and try to intervene in this situation I am not helping either one of us honestly.  It is her responsibility to ask for the help she needs... . not mine to decide she needs it... . that is control.

The potential finality of suicide attempts or ideation put a slightly different spin on it, but the message is still the same. 

If I remove the relationship, if I remove the diagnosis... . and I attempt to look at it objectively then the last thing I would ever do would be to advise someone to try to do a suicide intervention with someone who hates them.  I honestly feel that would be counter productive to both parties.

If I look hard at my motivations, I don't want her to kill herself of course, but I don't want the guilt if she does either.  That is a very huge factor.  I don't hate her, I don't want her to kill herself but I also do not want her in my life again.

I also have learned I crave peace, stability, loyalty most of all.  The last two days I have been dropped right back into the anxiety and stress that I was in during the relationship.  I have a ton going on in my own life.  I just came home from a major open heart surgery for my daughter and her recovery is rough.   She needs her mom to be all there for her right now, the other kids need mom to be all there for them as well... . I have been gone from them for 2 weeks as well.   I have this week off of work to recharge and restablish my "normalcy" again.

Last night while typing out all of my responses I was struck as to actually how bad things were with her.  How very wrong... on both parts.  I thought I saw it before... . but it all became clearer somehow. 

I guess somehow it was one more level of detachment achieved somehow.  I think I realized she is simply who she is and that is not going to change. A lot of my anger at her for things she said about my daughter, for not being there for me thru the surgery faded away

But I am changing.  She will always matter to me but not at the expense of myself, not at the expense of my children.  I can not get myself involved on the basis of a suspicion. 

If she contacts me, if she seeks me out I will reevaluate things of course.  That changes everything.  But I hope I can help at that point professionally and keep the personal out of it.  I doubt it, but hope and being aware is a good start.

So I will leave my phone and email unblocked.  She can contact me if she needs me and I will attempt to help if she wants me to.  That is in fact all I think I can safely do at this point.  For both of us.

I spend a lot of time rereading the beliefs that can keep us stuck... . the belief I can help her is where I have been stuck.  And right now I can't.  Not for her... . not for me. 

It may be the wrong choice.  I will feel horrible if she commits suicide, and I will second guess myself to Hell and back I am sure.  But I feel right now this choice is the best one that I can make in the end.  For both of us.

And in the end as selfish as it may appear I have to remember that what is best for me matters too

[seeking balance]

Isn't it great what a good nights sleep can do for you.   

If you are intending to help her if she contacts you, it might be good to have a plan of what that looks like so you can "act" versus "react".  Although you are a professional - you are not HER professional; so the plan to getting her back into the hospital or to her T is what I mean. 

Keep taking care of you and your kiddos.  Sounds like your daughter is doing ok after the surgery?

[Allmessedup]

Good point as always sb!

I am not HER professional.  I used to be, but I am not... . and never should have been.  She doesn't see a T, not for like 30 years... . and refuses to.

I suppose I will have to think about this.  I can of course get her hospitalized if she has a plan. 

I think I will mostly strive for detachment in communicating with her.  Like a crisis call.  Keep it professional and not bring up my emotions into it.

That's what I will try to do at least.  If she comes to me then I feel better about bringing others on board to help as well.  I do not have this burden alone.

Mostly I shall take time to think with my head instead if responding with my heart. 

I am well aware it would be all too easy to be sucked back in.

Thank you for the concern about my daughter.  We ended up being in the hospital for twice as long as we anticipated and she has a long journey to recovery even now that we are home... . but the surgery was a success and she is doing far better than I would if the roles were reversed!

Amu

[seeking balance]

the surgery was a success and she is doing far better than I would if the roles were reversed!

Amu

  right on