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Author Topic: I have a feeling I'll need help getting past this one  (Read 3757 times)
16floorsup
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« on: June 28, 2010, 01:26:53 PM »

Hi all,

Well, some may know my story, but after breaking up with my exuBPDgf (over 3mo NC), I was able to buy a house and move.  The move was tough for me because I had planned on moving in with my ex and her 2 boys, but as I continue to settle it is getting better.  When I went through tough times  over the past few months, I found myself looking for answers and in that process I have met her exH and on rare occasions we have talked.  Well, I was working on my new place this weekend, and I received a text from the exH out of the blue wanting to meet up.  I wasn't able to and really have been holding off on talking to him any longer because I don't want to get stuck and am trying to move on.  Unfortunately, that didn't matter because he text me again today and said he had a question for me and if I would call.  So, I called and he asked if I went to the Reds game on Friday night (I have a season package for 13 games on Friday nights to the Reds), and I had taken my exuBPDgf there last season a few times, so that is how he knew.  Anyway, I didn't go because of the move, and told him that, and he said that the boys told him our ex was going to the Reds game Friday night, and he wanted to make sure I wasn't back with her (for his own safety of course).

Now, when I heard that she went to the game (I live in Indy so this is a road trip of about 2 hours) my heart did sink.  One, that was my thing and I introduced her to it.  She had no idea about baseball until me, and definitely not the Reds, and now she goes, most likely taking her new boyfriend.  Two, she new very well what games I would have tickets to, so for the mere idea that she goes to the game on the exact night I would be there is too much of a coincidence.  Three, she always said that was our thing, and I liked it that way, but as revelations have occured I realized I was never really all that special, and this just verifies it.

I guess I'm worried this one will bother me greatly and throw me over the edge.  I've been really fighting urges to go to her house lately because I am struggling to move on from her (I still have strong feelings for her), I'm questioning my own issues and wondering if I caused a lot of our problems, and I'm uncertain I'll be able to be trusting of someone else again and feel love for them the way I want to.  All of this makes me want to go to her and say the things she always said to me at the end such as "I hate you" "I hope you get what you deserve" "You lied to me" and "You strung me along" and so on. 

I hope I can get past this one, and I think I will, but I was wondering what you guys think she is really trying to do here.  Is this because she has no identity of her own?  Is she trying to hang onto something that we used to enjoy?  Did she go down there hoping to run into me?  All of it was too much of a coincidence and I can't stop wondering why.

Thanks.
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« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2010, 01:52:20 PM »

Aaahh, me thinks she just wants to rub it in your face.  Maybe trigger some emotional reaction  from you because they get off on that.  And if she can see that she got to you, it feeds her shallow ego, let's her foolishly think that you still care, maybe she can even win you back should Plan B fail... .Even better for her if she can get you to CONTACT her because of it.  

They are masters of delusion and manipulation.  She's doing both.  :)on't fall for it.  You're too smart for that, and you've come too far to risk such a setback.  Be thankful for the warning that this is her new game.   Don't go to the games unless you are certain you can pull it off= no emotion.  Of course the mean gal in me wants to tell you to go to the games and make sure you got a hot babe on your arm ready to make her jealous if you get the chance, but  a) I live too far to help you out and  b) that's just me being mean.  

Whatever you do: DONT GO TO HER HOUSE OR BREAK N/C.   It's soo not worth it, and it won't help you with moving on AT ALL.   Get it out here.  I won't mind at all if you scream at me!  Promise!  Take care!

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« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2010, 01:54:26 PM »

Excerpt
I was wondering what you guys think she is really trying to do here.  Is this because she has no identity of her own?  Is she trying to hang onto something that we used to enjoy?  :)id she go down there hoping to run into me?  All of it was too much of a coincidence and I can't stop wondering why.

Yes.

The BP I dated, had another "soulmate" at the same time    .  After I dumped him, she lasted a few weeks longer.  Then he was back on the dating site, and his new ad was a completely different persona than the ad that hooked me.  It was mirroring her life.

If it would help, maybe you could write it all out.  "I hate what you did because... ."  "I hate you because... ."  "I'll never be able to trust you because... ."  Just vomit it out of the end of your pen and then put it in the waste basket.

What you experienced and what she experienced are two different things.  For you it was special.  For her, it was just like all the other relationships she's burned through have been... . intense, sexy, fun, dramatic, tiresome, annoying, romantic, blah... . that is no reflection on you.  It's her illness.  It always was; it always will be.

Obviously she wanted to be there when you were there.  She's BPD, these "coincidences" are just way too frequent with BPs.  

We all know what it means to not want to move on.  But, if you don't, you will never meet that really amazing, healthy woman who will treat you well.
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2010, 02:01:45 PM »

Yeah, that's tough to deal with!   x

Is it possible to tell the exH that you really don't want any updates from him about her, or really, any contact at all that would trigger thoughts about her?

He's been through the wringer too, and hopefully he'd understand where you are coming from.

It will make it so much easier for you to not have that link.

Just a thought.

VanessaG
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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2010, 02:53:44 PM »

My ex BPD gf also gleaned off portions of my life including things that were "mine" such as places, things and people.

I would guess that the answers to your 3 questions are most likely yes, yes and yes. I would also guess that their lack of object constancy plays a role.
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2010, 03:34:52 PM »

Aaahh, me thinks she just wants to rub it in your face.  Maybe trigger some emotional reaction  from you because they get off on that.  And if she can see that she got to you, it feeds her shallow ego, let's her foolishly think that you still care, maybe she can even win you back should Plan B fail... .Even better for her if she can get you to CONTACT her because of it.  

They are masters of delusion and manipulation.  She's doing both.  :)on't fall for it.  You're too smart for that, and you've come too far to risk such a setback.  Be thankful for the warning that this is her new game.   Don't go to the games unless you are certain you can pull it off= no emotion.  Of course the mean gal in me wants to tell you to go to the games and make sure you got a hot babe on your arm ready to make her jealous if you get the chance, but  a) I live too far to help you out and  b) that's just me being mean.  

Whatever you do: DONT GO TO HER HOUSE OR BREAK N/C.   It's soo not worth it, and it won't help you with moving on AT ALL.   Get it out here.  I won't mind at all if you scream at me!  Promise!  Take care!

I thought this was the case.  Actually, after letting it settle I'm actually feeling better about this.  For one, a lot of my struggling has been thinking I'm the only one doing so, and even though she may not be struggling in the same way, she is trying to play this game and this is her way of moving on.  Too bad it's the wrong way, but to each their own.  The other thing is that it is verification as to how bizarre she really is to not be able to have her own identity.  The funny thing about this is that her new guy probably thinks this is great that she likes the Reds, not knowing that she is actually only doing something she learned from her recent ex, and deep down doesn't have a clue about baseball.  HA!  Makes me smile.  The other funny thing is that had I gone to the game, I actually would have taken a Hot Gal I just met, and it would have really back fired on her.  But, if you are ever around and want to assist me on this, I'd be more than happy to take you along.  This is the mean guy in me, but how fun would that be, even if it is just playing her game.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Then he was back on the dating site, and his new ad was a completely different persona than the ad that hooked me.  It was mirroring her life.

This is exactly what she did to me.  In fact, I was matched with her a couple weeks ago on eHarmony of all things.  Spent the day calling them to ask that they remove her and I think I was able to without her seeing it.  The thing that struck me, though, was all the things she said were a mirror image of me.  I will definitely head our advice and write a letter I shred afterward.  I've seen that recommendation a few times and need to continue doing it when I get in these anger spells.

Yeah, that's tough to deal with!   x

Is it possible to tell the exH that you really don't want any updates from him about her, or really, any contact at all that would trigger thoughts about her?

He's been through the wringer too, and hopefully he'd understand where you are coming from.

It will make it so much easier for you to not have that link.

Just a thought.

VanessaG

It is, and I probably should do exactly that.  I need space from this, and the more information I get, the more it pulls me back in.  The other problem is, though, the more I don't know sometimes the more I wonder or imagine what could be the case, especially from what revelations I've found out about the lies she told me, and the way it really is.  I hope that time will eventually heal as they all say, but it does seem to be taking longer than I ever imagined it would.  I'm also very worried about my ability to trust another and let my guard down enough to truly love again.  That is the toughest realization, and probably what holds me to this, because it all seems like a really bad dream.  My idealistic, naive side of me can't imagine others being in this much denial, and unable to see their actions as anything wrong.  I never could have imagined being involved with someone so able to consistently lie (believing her own lies) and manipulate as well as she did, especially a mother of two wonderful boys (whom I worry about the most).  But sure enough, it exists and is very real!



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« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2010, 05:51:03 PM »

Excerpt
I'm also very worried about my ability to trust another and let my guard down enough to truly love again.  That is the toughest realization, and probably what holds me to this, because it all seems like a really bad dream.  My idealistic, naive side of me can't imagine others being in this much denial, and unable to see their actions as anything wrong.  I never could have imagined being involved with someone so able to consistently lie (believing her own lies) and manipulate as well as she did, especially a mother of two wonderful boys (whom I worry about the most).  But sure enough, it exists and is very real!

Yeah, well.  That's the OTHER club nobody here wanted to join.  The "How the Hell Am I Ever Going to Trust Myself to Pick Out a Good One Club."  But, if you gain membership to that club, at least that means you've moved on from "BPDnon of the Month Club." 
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« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2010, 06:21:55 PM »

With my exBPD g/f i noticed she is "recycling" dates or events with her new B/F. And I noticed when we did some date things that she wanted to do i always felt that she had done them before with other relationships and was recycling them with me. The more I think  about it ,  I feel she can't be original and has to rely on previous experiences that probably she did have fun with. So maybe take it as a compliment that she is trying to rehash a fun event she had with you and her hoping she can replicate that feeling.

Just a thought.
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« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2010, 01:33:27 PM »

My ex too copied me on likes, tastes, brands, habits etc.   Adopted them, made them his own and acted like he had always been that way to others (with time even seemed to forget he got that from me),  like it all originated with him.  How unoriginal!   I too wondered what part of him that I was seeing was something he borrowed elsewhere.   I think they are just very good at figuring out how to appeal to that person.  They can morph into anythng to get their needs met!
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« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2010, 02:03:46 PM »

Well, I had a chance to think about it, and after the initial BLAH feeling, I feel better about it.  I think more than anything it just goes to show how truly disturbed she really is.  The thing about it is Baseball was honestly my identity growing up (don't worry, I have moved on), but it is something I've always cherished and have a lot of great memories.  I asked her to go with me a couple times and it cracks me up because even though she would say how much she enjoyed it, I don't think it had anything to do with the game.  Anyway, for her to act as if the Reds are her thing actually gives me more verification than ever.  To give you an idea, this is the most uncoordinated band geek (please do not take offense to that, I'm just trying to paint a picture) I've ever met trying to act like sports are her thing.  I suspect it will only show her true colors.  It also does help me realize that no matter how long or how well her next boy-toy is to her, it isn't real.  She has no identity of her own, and is only a chameleon.  SAD! SAD! SAD Existence!     I've gained so much truth over the past month it has been overwhelming, but I'm starting to realize it is for the best.  Eventually, when the truth hits you in the face long enough, you have no choice but to start blocking it, and that is what I think I am finally starting to realize.  You guys are the best!  Glad to know this support system is here.
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DAS
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« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2010, 02:34:22 PM »

I saw mine randomly walking along the street that the dog park is on. I have the dog, and her new boy doesn't have one either so it was very suspicious.

So ya - they do stuff like that. Don't reengage.
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« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2010, 02:41:07 PM »

and he wanted to make sure I wasn't back with her (for his own safety of course).

focus on the above... .

remeber the phrase . out of the mouths of babes... .

the ramifications... of this. will be wide spread... .

i dont think its worth it... .seems to me 3 of your 4 wheels are back on the car... .

she will kick the jack out... when your about to put the fourth wheel on
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« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2010, 02:57:35 PM »

This is an interesting topic and one that I have just had another  Idea moment (only 19 months out folks you would think I have had enough  Idea moments)!  When I met my uexBPDbf our lives were actually very synced, not something that can be mirrored... .point in case... .I am heavily into the theatre and arts, his cousin is a very famous actor, his daughter was into theatre as was mine.  I work with bands and so did he, he had a 1970 Harley Davidson in bits that he was desperate to get fixed... .my brother just happened to be an expert Harley engineer for that particular bike as he used to own one himself.  My ex also used to aerobatically fly a Chipmunk RAF plane, my father worked on these aircraft in the war and my uncle flew these aircraft too.  None of this stuff came out straight away it took time to get to know bits and pieces.  We both had many airline contacts too as I work for the airlines.  I met him online from match.com and had no friend links. My ex was heavily into Roman Empire history and World War II history, my brother in-law was an expert in those two areas... .getting the drift here?  So what I can now understand is that he really didnt need to mirror as it was always there... .it fit like a glove for him.  Sadly I think this was too much for him as he cheated, lied, manipulated then dumped me 3 weeks after my brother finished his bike.  I couldnt understand why he spent the last 19 months begging me to come back because his new fiance isnt like me and he feels like she is a square peg in a round hole, he keeps saying that he has nothing in common with her.  So there is the  Idea moment, now I think I know why he fought so hard for me to return... .the mirror didnt need to be used for him, he fit with my family like a glove.

Tippy
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« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2010, 04:58:23 PM »

Excerpt
The other funny thing is that had I gone to the game, I actually would have taken a Hot Gal I just met, and it would have really back fired on her.

It would have backfired on the Hot Gal too. No one wants to become a part of the dance between a dysfunctional couple- that is triangulation (read definition) with the intent of using an innocent person for subversion. Meanwhile this person would think they were on a date. No one wants to be used like that. If you're unsure then ask them-"would you mind being a pawn in my game?" I'm sure she'd say No.

When you feel like this involving another person in this- stop yourself and realize that you are setting up a Karpmann Drama Triangle. Keeping the drama going becomes more important to the players than other considerations and it's a way of remaining involved in dysfunction.

You've already triangulated yourself with the Husband, who is now calling you and according to you, "he wanted to make sure I wasn't back with her (for his own safety of course.)" His own safety? He may be regretting even talking to you now that his boundaries are shot to hell.

I hope you realize that he has to keep an eye on her because of HIS children (not yours) He will likely have a front row seat to her dysfunctional relationships for the rest of his life as the Mother of his children. You, on the other hand, could have a second career following her suitors, but what is your investment in? His children? They have a biological Father and nothing you do will change that. Beware of Sub-groups that can form in teams that act as if they were one rescuing person, sharing the role and switching role together- In the end you cannot both be victimized equally.

Rescuers need victims. There is a subtle and powerful seduction in being a powerless Victim. Besides being a great way to elicit pity and assistance from others, the role of Victim lets one believe that they are not responsible (i.e. able to respond) for what is going on in their life and often, the victim becomes the star of the drama. This position lets the victim avoid responsibility for their life, since, as far as they are concerned, they are usually not the cause of such occurrences in their life and, therefore, it's not their fault! But the real question is not "whose fault is it?" The real question is, "What do you want?" and "Who do you want to be?" given your situation.

Triangulation (read definition) in relationships moves the rescuer to persecutor to victim around and around. It solves nothing but creates drama. Triangulation (read definition) is also a way of determining someone's location using the locations of other people.

And on this wheel of fortune, there's even a computer that seems to be boundary-less.  You're thinking that the computer doesn't make mistakes- it does (only because of false data)

The software is an example of what's known as garbage in and garbage out. People sometimes lie on computerized tests to make themselves appear better than they are. The bias toward untruthfulness is staggering = that's the garbage part. Coupled with the garbage out process of untruthfulness- the cognitive dissonance creates a false environment of zero accountability.

Computerized dating sites like Eharmoney (sic) use that cognitive dissonance to their advantage:  reasoning that applies to people allowing a computer to choose their mate rather than using their own mindfulness.  Don't buy into the hype that it is a perfect tool for Human interaction. It's not. You are.

Many of the commercials for these dating sites suggest that the computer is smarter than the human instinct because the computer does not rely on emotions- but this pairing of untruthful profiles and acceptance of computer rationale can be very harmful to humans, especially when they uncover the deception on the part of the profile.

If you are not yet ready to let go of her- I would highly recommend staying off the dating site. No one wants to date the walking wounded. It will only mess up your healing and make you feel worse.

Have a read on the Drama Triangle. It is one of the most enlightening things to uncover about a BPD's victimhood and how they manipulate others. It also helps to identify yourself in the game. The only way to win is not to play. www.hda.co.uk/candidate/images/misc/careermanagement/10102008416Appendices.pdf

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« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2010, 08:37:20 PM »

Computerized dating sites like Eharmoney (sic) use that cognitive dissonance to their advantage:  reasoning that applies to people allowing a computer to choose their mate rather than using their own mindfulness.  Don't buy into the hype that it is a perfect tool for Human interaction. It's not. You are.

Many of the commercials for these dating sites suggest that the computer is smarter than the human instinct because the computer does not rely on emotions- but this pairing of untruthful profiles and acceptance of computer rationale can be very harmful to humans, especially when they uncover the deception on the part of the profile.

Just a note, e-harmony "matching" is a myth.

I am not "deeply compatible" with over 1500 people (the number of "matches" I've received over 9 months spread over 3 years. I am not compatible with the super sporty athletic girls that I've been matched with. I am not compatible with 10 people A DAY that get sent my way.

No e-harmony is just a rationed search engine that doles out any profile that meets the age and geography settings in measured amounts. It still is overwhelming which is why I have had to turn matching off before the three months I've paid for is up every time.
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« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2010, 10:46:09 AM »

Thank you for your input.  I am curious about the thoughts on eHarmony.  So, my take is that you feel the Personality Profiling can be flawed because a person would be able to profile themselves based on who they believe to be rather than who they really are.  I guess I can see this, especially with Borderline mirroring that occurs and the lack of any real self identity.  I'm sure you can find someone compatible with you on the site, it just would take more work to do so.  I'm also sure it wasn't the site that was or is the problem, but rather the place that I was in at the time that I met her, and the need and feeling of insecurity I had in wanting to start a family (and low and behold she had one ready and willing for me to have).  If I had been in a good place with myself and working on who I am and what are my healthy needs, as well as, recognizing that a family is built with time and effort not handed to me, then I would have recognized the  |> a lot sooner, stuck with my initial instincts and been okay with moving on to the next person.  But, since I did not, and I fell into the addictive trap of this quick fix scenario I am struggling day to day with finding myself again, and working through the withdrawal I have of the quick fix family I thought I had, as well as, working past not denying how truly misguided my exuBPDgf really is (which is really the hardest part for me to accept because it only forces me to recognize how truly misguided I was in thinking I could make it work).  Even so, I don't think I can completely put the blame on eHarmony and feel like that there is no chance of finding someone worthwhile on this website, and that everyone on it has some sort of mental illness similar to BPD.  I think it is no different than the real world and only an opportunity to meet others for whom you would not have the chance otherwise to meet.  I think if a pwBPD is capable of lying to themselves with a personality profile, imagine how good they are at doing it in person.  So, you are at risk for meeting them in your regular hobbies, job, church, supermarket, etc just the same as on eHarmony.  It all comes down to knowing yourself, following your gut instincts, recognizing the  |> as they are, and doing the right thing.  Blaming eHarmony for the mistake of meeting the person is really just trying to take the blame off yourself and not looking inward at why you decided to be with the person in the first place.

2010, thinks for the input on the drama triangle.  I will definitely read that article, and after going through this more and more, and trying to rationalize why it is okay to continue conversation with her exH, I've recognized it is a really bad idea to do so.  All it does is pull me back, help me lose focus of my own faults and needs by putting the focus back on this cycle, and not move on like I should be doing.  You are absolutely right in that these are not my kids, and I have to let them go.  This is not my world any longer and I need to let that go.  I do not need any association with my exuBPDgf any longer, and I need to let her go do her thing and hopefully I'll never have to know what that is any more.  Much easier said than done, though.  It hurts me to think she will continue down a path of destruction and continue pulling in others to her sick and twisted sense of reality, but I suppose I've lost my innocence and naivety in realizing this is just life and the way it has to be, and there is nothing I can do about it other than LET IT GO!  UGH, this is hard to do!   :'(
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« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2010, 01:17:58 PM »

Ya. As I said, gone on lots of first dates through e-harmony. Closest thing I got to with anyone from there though was a 6 month celibate LDR.

My BPDex I met through meetup. First woman I met in real life who became interested in being with me in over a decade.

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« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2010, 01:37:00 PM »

... .after going through this more and more, and trying to rationalize why it is okay to continue conversation with her exH, I've recognized it is a really bad idea to do so.  All it does is pull me back, help me lose focus of my own faults and needs by putting the focus back on this cycle, and not move on like I should be doing.

I've been following your posts a bit, 16floorsup.  I've been "waiting" for you to come to this realization in your own time.  I was going to post something along these lines when you first opened this thread, but stepped back thinking you'll get there in your own time.  I know it hurts to walk away from this and let go, but both you and the exH are enabling each other to stay engaged in her life.  He has to -- he has children with her.  You don't have to.  Take a deep breath, and feel free in the knowledge that you're able to let it go without any strings attached.

I wish you peace.
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« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2010, 02:07:01 PM »

I've been following your posts a bit, 16floorsup.  I've been "waiting" for you to come to this realization in your own time.  I was going to post something along these lines when you first opened this thread, but stepped back thinking you'll get there in your own time.  I know it hurts to walk away from this and let go, but both you and the exH are enabling each other to stay engaged in her life.  He has to -- he has children with her.  You don't have to.  Take a deep breath, and feel free in the knowledge that you're able to let it go without any strings attached.

I wish you peace.

Thanks Clean Slate!  I really appreciate the reassurance.  I think I remembering you mentioning something of this line in an old post I did when I first met up with him and asked if it was right or not (if not you someone else).  I guess my stubborn self kept me from realizing the truth, or more likely I just did not want to accept the idea of moving on, but the  Idea is finally on, and after this last event and how I responded to it, I realize this is enough.  I do not need to hear anymore information about her, and that is all I'll do if I continue talking to him.  Suppose you were dead on, though, in that I needed to figure that out for myself.  Thanks again!

Ya. As I said, gone on lots of first dates through e-harmony. Closest thing I got to with anyone from there though was a 6 month celibate LDR.

My BPDex I met through meetup. First woman I met in real life who became interested in being with me in over a decade.

DAS, I've read a few of your posts for awhile, and I'm concerned about the credit you give yourself.  You have often stated that no one is interested in you, and that concerns me.  The only way to know if this is true or not, is if you are interested in you first!  Take it from someone who understands low self esteem (hell, I bet most of us involved in a BPD relationship experience low self esteem), and the main thing I've learned is that you have to take care of you first and foremost.  Once you do, the pieces will fall as they may. 

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Relationship status: Never married
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« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2010, 11:02:39 AM »

DAS, I've read a few of your posts for awhile, and I'm concerned about the credit you give yourself.  You have often stated that no one is interested in you, and that concerns me.  The only way to know if this is true or not, is if you are interested in you first!  Take it from someone who understands low self esteem (hell, I bet most of us involved in a BPD relationship experience low self esteem), and the main thing I've learned is that you have to take care of you first and foremost.  Once you do, the pieces will fall as they may. 

Cheers mate. I don't really understand what you mean as the incidences of women expressing attraction or interest in me have been completely unrelated to how I happened to be feeling at the time. It is in fact the lack of success when I have truly believed I felt good about myself that I truly think has triggered this current depression. And ironically - someone messaged a two year out of date profile on Match.com on Wednesday. Interest - out of the blue - completely unrelated to my feelings.

Anyway, cheers. I appreciate the intent!
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