Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 28, 2020, 01:39:37 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: FaithHopeLove, Harri, Once Removed
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, I Am Redeemed, Mutt, Turkish
Ambassadors: Enabler, Forgiveness, formflier, GaGrl,  khibomsis , Longterm, Ozzie101, pursuingJoy, Swimmy55, zachira
  Help!   Groups   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Expert insight for adult children
101
Family dynamics matter.
Alan Fruzzetti, PhD
Listening to shame
Brené Brown, PhD
Blame - why we do it?
Brené Brown, PhD
How to spot a liar
Pamela Meyer
Poll
Question: Have you experienced emotional incest in your family?
No - 12 (5.3%)
Yes, as an invasive parent - 18 (7.9%)
Yes, as a left-out parent - 6 (2.6%)
Yes, as a chosen child - 106 (46.7%)
Yes, as a left-out child - 36 (15.9%)
Yes, as a spouse of a chosen child - 10 (4.4%)
Yes, in another or mixed roles - 39 (17.2%)
Total Voters: 227

Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: POLL: Have you experienced emotional incest in your family?  (Read 38654 times)
blackandwhite
Retired Staff
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
What is your relationship status with them: married
Posts: 3115



« on: September 11, 2010, 03:46:57 PM »

Read the information below, take the poll, and leave a comment!

What is emotional incest?

Emotional, or covert, incest is an overclose bond between a parent and a child without normal boundaries, but without sexual contact. (Overt incest involves sexual contact.)

Best described to date by Dr. Patricia Love, Dr. Love defines emotional incest as "a style of parenting in which parents turn to their children, not to their partners, for emotional support. To the casual observer, the parents may appear loving and devoted. They may spend a great deal of time with their children and lavish them with praise and material gifts. But in the final analysis, their love is not a nurturing, giving love--it's an unconscious ploy to satisfy their own unmet needs."

The BPD factor: Parents with BPD tend to be emotionally immature, have poor boundaries, and think in black and white terms (child = good; spouse = bad). Non parents, faced with a spouse who through his or her disorder may not be functioning as an equal and satisfying partner, may also turn to a child for support. The resulting family situation is one that is at risk for emotional incest.


What are the characteristics of an emotionally incestuous parent-child bond?

1. The parent is using the child extensively to satisfy needs that are beyond the child's ability and role and that should be satisfied by other adults--intimacy, companionship, romantic stimulation, advice, problem solving, ego fulfillment, and/or emotional release.

2. The parent is ignoring many of the child's needs, e.g., for protection, nurturing, guidance, structure, affection, affirmation, or discipline. Instead of the parent meeting the needs of the child, the child is meeting the needs of the parent.

Many parents and children are close; closeness is often healthy and desirable. The key determinant of whether the parenting role has become invasive is that a healthy parent "takes care of a child's needs [in an age-appropriate way] without making the child feel responsible for his/her needs." Parents often slip into the "invasive" role without any intention to harm their children, but the impact is nonetheless harmful.


What are the effects of a parent's reliance on a child?

According to Dr. Love, "Being a parent's primary source of support is a heavy burden for young children. Forced to suppress their own needs, they struggle to satisfy the needs of the adults. Because of this role reversal, they are rarely given adequate protection, guidance, or discipline, and they are exposed to experiences well beyond their years. In adolescence and adulthood, they are likely to be plagued by one or more of the following difficulties: depression, chronic low-level anxiety, problems with self-esteem and love relationships, overly loose or rigid personal boundaries, some form of sexual dysfunction, eating disorders and drug or alcohol addiction."


What about other family members?

Emotional incest affects all members of a family. Dr. Love provides a "role call":

*The Invasive Parent--is enmeshed with a child in order to meet his/her needs that are not being met in an adult relationship

*The Chosen Child--is enmeshed with the invasive parent; often treated as "all good" and favored, but own needs to develop as an individual, to make mistakes and learn, to receive structure and discipline, etc. are actually neglected. Chosen children can also be treated as scapegoats, used "not just for emotional support but for the release of anger and tension."

*The Left-Out Spouse--spouse of invasive parent, is often shut out of exclusive parent-child bond; may turn to workaholism, alcohol, affairs, or other unhealthy coping mechanisms to deal with an unhappy life at home

*The Left-Out Child(ren)--a non-favored child, may be neglected or receive less of the family's resources; may bond with the left out spouse

*Spouse of the Chosen Child--when the chosen child grows up and marries, his/her spouse may find him/herself engaged in a rather disturbing triangle with the chosen child and invasive parent


Where can I find out more?

Book Review for The Emotional Incest Syndrome, by Dr. Patricia Love

Share your experiences by adding a comment. If you answered yes to the poll, how has emotional incest affected you and your family? Have you found ways to cope with and improve the situation?
Logged

What they call you is one thing.
What you answer to is something else. ~ Lucille Clifton
kkriesel
****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
What is your relationship status with them: living alone, wonderful girlfriend
Posts: 291


WWW
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2010, 09:34:01 PM »

I haven't absorbed it yet that physical incest really happened... .accepting the emotional incest was hard enough.

I'm the only child of uBPDm.  The divorce between she and my dad (dBPD), when I was 4, was the second for them both.  He then faded away, he wasn't there to protect me.  I became ubpm's entire world.  Whenever an unrealistic couple in a movie depended on each other or saved each other (Prince Eric and Ariel, for example), upbm said that she and I had each other like those characters had themselves.

She alternately painted me as the golden child and the black sheep, depending on how much of her needs I was considering/fulfilling at the time.  Golden child periods consisted of me carrying 100% of the relationship in addition to her dreams and relationships with other peopld.  When I was the black sheep, she claimed both that I was abandoning her and that she would abandon me.
Logged

neverenz
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
What is your relationship status with them: single 14yrs
Posts: 95


« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2010, 04:48:55 AM »

I have never heard of this before but this is exactly what my exhn/BPD(also schitzophrenic) did to my kids. Such inappropriate behaviours! Just a few examples:

"walk up and down so i can look a your sexy bum"

telling my d15 (then 10) that he "wanted her to be the mother of his children" !

Telling the kids to bark at me "Ur a dog mummy, woof woof"

Has a rage at them if they dont call him

Tries to make them responsible for his life and choices

There are so many other things but you get the drift. He is emotionally incestuous toward all 3 of my kids and my oldest is udBPD and my son is showing signs of schitzophrenia :'( My middle child d15 is incredibly amazing in her response to him. When he face books her with the title, "live or die" and then tries to make her feel responsible for his predicament, she replies, "This would be really touching dad IF YOU WERENT THE ADULT HERE!"

My kids are d18, d15 and s14 and all live with me 2,000 km away from him!  

Emotional incest is the perfect description of what he has done to my kids

  neverenz
Logged
DaughterInDespair
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 472


« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2010, 08:10:29 PM »



WOW... .YES!


I grew up being my mother's "best friend"/parent/therapist, and had

to listen to her talk about her sex life with my dad (... .including the

"inadequate" size/duration of his erections, etc... .)

               


Ironically, she used to try and guilt ME into keeping my distance from

my dad... .   (by saying things like "your father would make you his WIFE

if he could!"

 


People on the outside just don't understand how incredibly damaging

this all is on a child... .

... .and because it's so subtle, nobody else can see what is going on.



Logged
Silver08
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
What is your relationship status with them: Married
Posts: 378



« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2010, 08:53:31 AM »

I've never heard this term, but YES, it describes the relationship between my mom and I. My mom jokes about how she used to cry on my shoulder when I watched Sesame Street.

I did think about this type of relationship between my mom and her brother.  She is obsessed with him, constantly calling and wanting his attention.  He has been supporting her financially for 20 years.  A few family members were talking and wondering if they ever had a sexual relationship.  I don't think they have, but emotional incest describes it perfectly.  My mom acts like her brother is her boyfriend!  My mom asked her sister one day, ":)oes Jon say "I love you, I love you, I love you" when you say goodbye?"  The way she said I love you was so passionate.  My aunt (my mom's sister) did tell me that my mom went on a campaign to break up her brother and wife when they first got engaged.
Logged
Ankakusu
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 1059



« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2010, 10:42:31 AM »

"I think the most difficult aspect of this legacy was feeling I had to jump back and forth between two desperate worlds: The world of a child and the world of a grown up. Just as pdm had no enduring sense of identity I also struggled to find my own voice. I became overly responsible, anxious and burdened. In effect, I don't feel I ever really HAD a childhood, you know, pretty much care-free like my friends appeared to be. And I lived in terror knowing my "white" status could be changed to "black-beyond-recognition" in a heartbeat or less and I had NO control over either."

Yes! What said!

I was always visual-minded when I was little, and, as a result of the emotional incest, got the idea that I was not actually a real child but some kind of obscene little adult in a child's body, and also that my voice was not a child's but a grotesque little adult's, and that that was my fault and that nobody generally noticed this, but that I should be GLAD that no one noticed, because if they did, they would no longer love me, if they loved me, and their noticing would also be my fault.  It was also my "job" to somehow bridge the gap or disparity between the child's world and the grownup's world, and I'd always feel despair at not knowing how to do it. I never put it into words, but felt and saw it this way very strongly.

On the surface, I was the left-out child, and my uBPD/NPD? ensis was the chosen child, but we each experienced emotional incest in different ways. Ensis was mother’s favorite and caretaker/therapist, chosen to manage her “good” moods, and was rewarded for it. They sort of enveloped each other (or rather mother did because she was the one with the power) in this nurturing-looking environment and would coo over each other and soothe each other in ways that I was jealous of (because I wanted love) and disgusted by (because it seemed creepy to me).   Mother also used ensis to abuse me by proxy.

On the other hand, ensis was the “innocent” one in the household, and I was the one who didn’t deserve innocence and never had. I was left out of the “happy” emotional incest (as if there really were such a thing), and was chosen to manage mother’s bad moods, and was punished for provoking them.   All three of us (mother, uNPD endad, and I) were supposed to band together and worship ensis’s innocence. I was the one chosen from a very early age to hear details of mother’s and endad’s sex life and opinions of each other as sexual and romantic partners, and very punishing opinions of men and women  and the way they ought to act in general.  Endad gave me Lolita to read when I was ten, because I was “supposed to be the smart one,” even though he told me males were smarter than females, and I was “old enough to appreciate it.”  Over the years, I would get in serious trouble if I mentioned  to ensis that any of this was happening, even to complain in a general way when we were both teenagers, which was all I did, because at two years younger than I am (even when we were both adults) she “wasn’t ready” for things like this and it was “abusive” and “creepy” of me.

I think endad and mother were attracted to each other for the usual n and bp reasons, and endad was a total enabler but very self-absorbed and also got tired of soothing mother constantly  and affirming her delicate waifiness or meeting anybody’s needs but his own, so mother used ensis for that when we were both very little and I wouldn’t do it.  Endad was jealous and felt himself superior to mother, and  used me sometimes as a surrogate spouse intellectually and with inappropriate sharing of sexual and emotional information.  But mother also forced sexual and emotional information on me, so I don’t know. I guess we were set up in opposition to each other in their minds: Ensis was an innocent androgynous sprite when I was a mean and precocious brainy woman-child brat, and ensis was a delicate, feminine angel when I was a surrogate (male) intellectual partner for endad or a surrogate (hated) endadish stand-in (or conversely hated Other Woman) in mother’s eyes. It makes no sense. 

I now cope with the situation by never interacting with them, because there is no chance at all that they’ll change. Mother’s dead, Endad is drinking himself to death in a filthy house, telling himself fictitious anecdotes about his wonderful life with mother, and ensis only wants me in her life if I’m unhappy, overweight (that’s another issue), self-limited, and yearning for greater closeness, none of which is happening.

Logged
readthisdaily
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 137


« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2010, 10:47:00 AM »

YES!  My gcbro has become my mother's new husband (in every way other than sexual)  It is creepy & other people notice it.  Several of her sisters have done the same thing (with sons) I don't understand how their real husbands let this happen.
Logged
kynsofella1
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
What is your relationship status with them: Married
Posts: 87


« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2010, 11:53:15 AM »

Before I knew much about the BPD in my mil, I discovered this concept of emotional incest. I knew that DH was not physically or sexually abused by his Mom. I doubted she ever touched him. BUT, I had this nagging sick feeling in my gut, that something very disturbing on a similar level existed. Somehow in my research, I came across this concept.

DH absolutely experienced emotional incest. He tells me stories from a very young age, he would sit on her bed, while she cried and made him tell her how much he loved her. She would often tell him how much his Dad was never there for her in the way she needed. She was very invasive about girlfriends that DH had while growing up that went on into college and adulthood.

The descriptions and roles that have been described in this post, fit our situation exactly. It still sickens me
Logged
Japanese Doll
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
What is your relationship status with them: married
Posts: 328


« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2010, 01:51:40 PM »

 

sick!  I heard the word emotional incest.  Sadly I experienced emotional incest up until I terminated my relationship with my Mother.  She stole my childhood.  I am feeling anger inside me.

Sad. :'( :'(

Japanese Doll
Logged
Waiting to Exhale
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
What is your relationship status with them: Single
Posts: 993



« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2010, 08:54:16 AM »

Oh yes, very much so.  With dad gone 6 months out of the year and my being an only child for 5.5 years.  I was her golden child and her black sheep too.  When brother came along she would switch back and forth between us.  If he was doing what she wanted him to do for her he was good.  If I wasn't doing what she wanted I was bad and blackened and made to feel incompetent.  That would be when she would tell dad lies just so he would get upset at me and yell at me.  I can't tell you how many "listen to your mother and behave yourself's" I heard while he was a way and to me I WAS behaving, I was listening.  It was MOM that wasn't listening.  I was her therapist, her friend, her victim.  I was the second mother and her little helper.  She would tell me that she didn't know what she would do without me growing up and then later that day tell me I lacked common sense and was just like my father.  Who would circle the gammut a few times between being the love of her life and a piece of hit_.  She stole my childhood too.
Logged
tine2
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 446


« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2010, 06:00:51 PM »

I experienced this in my family. My uBPD mom told me inappropriate things about her relationship with my en-dad, and her problems with everyone (including ALL of our relatives, her co-workers, our neighbors and friends). When she was angry at someone else, she took it out on me. When she gave my dad the silent treatment, she gave me the silent treatment. Often for days. In the meantime, she and my golden brother were like little lovebirds. I got it from both of my parents. My en-dad used to tell me about all his problems with my mom. When I was 8, he showed me a letter she'd written to him about how she hated him and wanted a divorce. He wanted my opinion. I told him to leave her. He didn't. He did, however, start sleeping in my bed at night.
Logged
ron7127
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1062


« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2010, 05:57:24 PM »

My wife insisted our daughters sleep in our bed , every night since birth. I was the odd man out, and slept in the basement. If/when I objected, I was  a swlfish, bad parent.
Logged
David Dare
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
What is your relationship status with them: broke up in 10-2009
Posts: 836


« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2010, 07:08:11 PM »

I never did in my life, but I witnessed it in my udBPDex's.  I watched her dad flirt with her.  It was disgusting, but it explains a lot.
Logged
life2live
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 451


« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2010, 01:12:54 PM »

 

I can see now that this was what happened between xbph and his mom. Now he's doing it with D8.   

It sickens me, I lose sleep over it, yet I feel like there is nothing that I can do to protect D8 from this. But at least I have a label for what he's doing now.

The courts/judge don't see this as an issues, the GAL thinks it's "cute" and that xbph is a "doting" dad, the 2 counselors D8 has seen refused to take a stand in court over the issue. So in the end, xbph will end up with 50/50 placement of D8.

What can I do? Those of you who were/are the chosen child, what do you wish the other parent would of done to help or protect you? Xbph and I have been separated for 3 years, divorced for 2, and it's only getting worse     :'(
Logged
neverenz
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
What is your relationship status with them: single 14yrs
Posts: 95


« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2010, 09:27:53 AM »

Good Question life2live,

i was in exactly the same situation. My d15 (chosen child ) said to my sister the other day "I wish i could go back in time and be mum, I would kick dad in the nuts"

Pretty obvious she wanted me to protect them! Eventually i saw what was happening and left but a lot of damage has been done. My advice would be to say straight out to him that what he is doing is inappropriate. Put it out there so he knows you are watching and then if it continues, kick him in the ... .! Smiling (click to insert in post)

  neverenz

Logged
bentnotbroke
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
What is your relationship status with them: Happily married, 2 years
Posts: 193


« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2010, 09:18:07 AM »

I had never heard this term until reading it today, but it so perfectly describes everything I've felt. My mom was an invasive parent... .she would tell people (and still does) that we are best friends. She calls and lays the guilt trips on thick with "I'm lonely... .I'm by myself ALL the time" (imagine a weepy, creepy voice). As a child she would take me with her everywhere, including when she was being unfaithful to my dad and then make me lie to him afterward about where we had been and who we were with. I spent the majority of my childhood life having nightmares that dad was chasing me with a gun because he found out that I was lying to him. She also inserted herself into every aspect of my life... .even for the time I lived eight hours away. I had nothing that was my own. I don't even tell her things anymore for fear that she'll coincidentally show up. It got to the point (and stayed there) that my friends wouldn't even be around her for holiday or birthday gatherings... .she would spend the whole time monopolizing them and then tell them to call her or come see her when I wasn't around... .as if my friends even remotely had any interest in her. She hit on a couple boyfriends and even cheated on my dad with the father of my brother's girlfriend and the dad of my boyfriend (2 diff guys).

I never knew the terminology for these things... .I just knew they were very abnormal and inappropriate. It makes so much sense now!

Great post!
Logged
tine2
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 446


« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2010, 10:23:46 AM »

My uBPD mom used to leave me notes under my pillow after she'd just given me long bouts (days, weeks) of the silent treatment for who-knows-what (she had a bad day at work, Christmas was coming, I closed the door too loudly, or left a dirty plate in the sink) and finally I'd get up the nerve to apologize to her, which would end the silent treatment, and she'd write to me: You're my best friend.   ? And I'd feel tremendous relief. Then I'd write her a note back, and say, You're my best friend, too. Ugh.
Logged
organicallygrown
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 552



« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2010, 06:44:13 PM »

I never made the link that a chosen child could also be the scapegoat,  but now I can see that to be true. That would explain the feeling I always had growing up. I was to be my father's confidante, understander, listener beyond anyone else, the one who understood fully , the one he could go to... .and at same time, the one he could blame, yell at, torment and destroy. i never understood the chosen child scapegoat blend, because that is who I was to my father. My mother, maybe always the scapegoat. But to my dad, he had a need with me, he had a reason to pull me aside and talk with me, share with me, things that were not my responsiblity, to contain or hold... .and then, a day later, i was the vessel of his wrath , his hate.And yet, I was always somehow told, without words, I was the chosen child by him. The chosen child to be his vessel of need, someone trained well to hear him, listen to him, and be exploited and hurt by him. YAY!  
Logged
deephealing

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 42


Strength in Letting Go and Moving On


WWW
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2010, 11:26:45 PM »

The Invasive Parent-my uBPD/NPDmo was so invasive when I was growing up and into my adult years until I shut her out that she used to brag about me being her shadow. Everything was always about her; even when she was doing something for me that appeared on the surface to be for me – it was always about her. Just recently when she was saying something that she believed she was entitled to say to me that was so invasive I told her I am a separate person from her and she said with all seriousness that I am extension of her. That is why I live 800 km away from her and try to keep as LC as possible with her. 

The Chosen Child—I was the ‘chosen child’ for a long time and it pitted me against my siblings. I fought against it for years and my uBPD/NPDmpo. I think I might have been CC because I was being groomed for her future carer.

The Left-Out Child –after years of fighting against being the CC I am now on the border of the non-favoured child. uBPD/NPDmo still talks it up to anyone she can about how much she loves me and is so close to me, I am her best friend and rah rah rah. But she now uses ignoring me and giving other FOO members things that she doesn’t give me as her way to let me know I am on the edge.

For years I have felt like she plays cat and mouse games with me – I’m the mouse and she cruelly tries to lull me into a sense of safety and enjoys the game until eventually I am giving back to her. When I realise what has happened again and step out of the FOG she pounces with the intention to hurt or stands back and gives room for one of her PDchildren to pounce with the intention to hurt.

Ouch – No wonder it hurts so much. It’s all so creepy and so so sad.

Logged
Sharonon
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
What is your relationship status with them: Long term married
Posts: 1134


« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2010, 02:20:24 AM »

I was the chosen child, the oldest of 5 children. This meant that my mother talked a lot at me. She talked mainly about whatever was passing through her mind but also made a lot of personal comments about me. But I felt she was not really there. It was as if there was no real person there, behind all that talk.

At the same time, I saw her neediness & tried to help her. And I became the parentified child, caring for myself & the other children because there was so much she did not do. Our father came home late, only to sleep.

But sometimes she did help me to get my wishes met, particularly via money or dealing with my father so I could do something like study a particular course at school. I appreciated that very much. I was not particularly demanding though, but some things were important to me & I asked. She did not assist with the most important thing I wanted, a stable, loving, sane & happy home & a mother I could turn to.

I coped with her by setting limits/boundary setting. She was not usually cooperative. Some things I had to learn to accept & to do what I could to remedy any resulting problem, such as going elsewhere to study & preparing meals for my brother & sisters.

I have had less & less to do with her as I and my children have become older. I have come to understand her quite well & I don't want to experience her behaviour. I wonder if I have become uncaring of her. Up to 18 years ago, I was too considerate of her, basically letting her get away with too much behaviour I did not want, but never anything like completely.
Logged
StillLearning

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 13



« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2010, 01:11:26 PM »

Definitely.  I vaguely remember being a small child & upbd Mom  making me sit down facing her to listen to her go on & on but I don't think I had any idea of what she was talking about.  The emotional incest was so intense & enduring that I have had dreams of her sexually exploiting me.  I don't think that happened, but is a reflection of the emotional incest. 

She also used me to do her dirty work, such as face bill collectors, call in sick for her at her workplace,  deliver messages to people, etc.  I hated it!  I had to face the hostility & shame that should've been hers to face & I was a little kid!

When I became an adult it got worse.  She would say "my sister" when referring to my Aunt as if she was speaking to a stranger or friend who wouldn't know her sister.  She didn't seem to be aware she's referring to MY Aunt.   I always felt as if all relatives were HER relatives, but not mine.  I guess that made it easier to go NC with her & all relatives, which, for me was the only solution.  I have never felt like I had an FOO or extended family.  They are just "relatives", I never use the word "family".
Logged
wanderlust
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 65


« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2010, 11:20:13 PM »

W W! So that's what that was, is.

As a child I was the chosen child. My mother came to me for alot of her validation as a parent, or her validation if there was something negative going on between her and my father which there usually was. There was only one way to answer and that was to tell her exactly what she wanted to hear. I learned to repeat back what she had asked me about herself because God help you if you made the childish mistake of answering her as a child would or if the answer wasn't correct then I could be transported to "left-out-childom" in an instant. 

When she and my father divorced I was chosen/left out. Very disorienting really. No wonder I second guess myself so much!

When she and my stepfather divorced, which happened to coincide with my adolesence, all hell broke loose and I became the left out child. She took every bit of rage out on me at that point! That witch totally robbed me of my childhood and teen years.

When I became an adult and no longer was vunerable to her bullying I became her emotional dumping ground. I can leave phone conversations with her and be absolutely exhausted.

Wow, that really touched a nerve with me. Thank you for introducing this topic. I need to do some more exploring regarding this.
Logged
kath

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 26


« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2010, 10:05:08 AM »

Didn't know there was such a thing but YES this is what has happened to me... .I'm still struggling to

recover ... .

Logged
knorkatje
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 80



« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2010, 04:25:28 PM »

She allways yells that I'm her daughter and hers only.

She blames me for not being thankfull enough for all the sacrifies she has made for me.

When she is suicidal she uses me as an excuses because I don't support her unconditionaly.

Pff it's like I'm just a hugh amount of Salt in the open wound that is her life.

And she thinks I'm not feeling guilty about it. :'( she should know.
Logged
Alastor
*****
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 583


« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2010, 04:57:51 PM »

I distinctly remember once yelling back at mother "I'm not your husband! I'm a child!" I can't remember what led up to the argument, but now this vivid memory has a lot more meaning.

She wanted a buddy, and as a relatively normal kid with school, sports, friends, etc I wanted a normal life. She had clearly put the expectations of an adult relationship onto a kid, and thankfully I had pushed back. I saw how my friends related with their parents, and all I knew was that what I had at home wasn't normal.

Yes, she would tell me all sorts of inappropriate things, and her demands on my time and accusations when it was inevitably never enough were abusive. She would talk to me about something where she needed support, but, being a kid still with a still-developing emotional intelligence and grasp on the world, the best I could do was try to listen or grunt a response. This led to accusations that I didn't care about her etc, and bam, rage.

Or I saw my friends have a nice dinner with their families, maybe watch some TV together etc and everyone was happy, but me... .no, I was expected to do overtime and sit there with mom all night because she had no friends and was lonely. If I wanted to head out I got the whole "using the place like a hotel" rage or "you don't care about me."

So there you go, it has a name: emotional incest.
Logged
moments
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Posts: 171



« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2010, 10:46:24 PM »

New here, but I definitely was a chosen child (and only child) of my mother. Glad to see I'm not alone!

Logged
Loveisfree
*******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Posts: 1130


« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2011, 09:39:46 AM »

I'm not sure if this counts but my BPDm would have me do her pedicures at a young age, take off her make-up, and rub her hair at night.  The funny thing is, we never received manis/pedis from her. 

It took me a long time to convince myself to get manis/pedis and I still feel guilty, like I only deserve them if I did something good. 

I do hate being touched/handled by my mom now but can not pin point exactly why.  I used to feel horrible for feeling this way, I often flinch when my mom reaches to touch me, but I don't feel so bad anymore from reading some of the posts on this board Smiling (click to insert in post)
Logged
MotherSpirit
***
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
What is your relationship status with them: single
Posts: 246


« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2011, 10:14:35 AM »

I guess all three of us were at some point Mom's spouse because to her, my father was and would always be bad (and I easily accepted this since he was the overt abuser (physical and verbal)).

I can remember times when my mom and I would hang our all day.  I would drive her here and there, we'd go shopping, have lunch, she would talk to me and I would listen.  Mostly I thought it was mother-daughter bonding (which it might have been), but it became more of a dependence.  Even when I moved away she would say things like "no one is here to take me here and there."  or "when you come, you can take me here and there and check things out.  Your brother doesn't want to/can't take me".

My younger brother is clearly the surrogate spouse now and has even admitted to being mom's confidant and replacement husband.  I think he doesn't know a)how to get out of it or b) that he can and SHOULD get out of it.  He texted me once "Mom says we never talk and I told her we talk all the time, we're in the same house".  She clearly NEEDS him to be her listener, confidant, etc.  And what does she talk about usually... .everyone else (and how they are making her miserable)!

I think my older brother was her surrogate spouse until HS when he rebelled and started confiding more in my father (betrayal!)
Logged
florealis

*
Offline Offline

Posts: 21


« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2011, 12:07:10 PM »

This is one of the hardest issues I am now coming to understand in our family. My mother was very sexually inappropriate with my sister and I growing up, stemming from her own sexual abuse. There was never any physical component, but just a feeling of "ickiness" that stuck in my throat as a child--that feeling like you want to cry, but can't--when she would engage in her behaviors.  Some examples:

When my sister was four, my mother showed her a Playgirl magazine in a bookstore to show her what a naked man looked like (in a sexual manner), which terrified my small sister;

My mother would often tell my sister and I how much she wanted to be our friends, and would then tell us all the very intimate and functional details about her sex life with our father usually in her bedroom (message: This is MY special connection with your father you do not have).

My mother would rely on us as her little therapists, so she could tell us about how she was date raped at 23, how her grandfather molested her at age 5 (revealed in a BPD rage)--we were told of both these events when we were far too young to be told this information (around 7-9)

Beyond the sexual inappropriateness, there were numerous suicidal remarks and threats made to us which to this day I would say amount to emotional incest. No child should know of suicide so intimately at such a young age. One particularly terrible one was when my sis and I were 5 and 3 respectively. She was in full rage, and screamed that she wanted to kill herself, locked herself in their bedroom (where we knew our father kept a gun), and sat in there quietly while we were both screaming and crying outside the door for her to stop. The next thing we knew, the door flew open and she told us how "stupid" we were to think she would ever actually do it. This was followed up later by telling me all about my grandparents' neighbor's grandson whom I knew, who had "shot himself right in the head" and "tried to drink mercury from a thermometer." I still have profound abandonment issues as an adult.

How does emotional incest affect you as an adult? My sister and I have both had major issues with depression, anxiety, eating disorders, just to name a few. How does one go about "de-programming" the feelings associated with emotional incest?

Logged
florealis

*
Offline Offline

Posts: 21


« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2011, 12:21:11 PM »

I was the chosen child, the oldest of 5 children. This meant that my mother talked a lot at me. She talked mainly about whatever was passing through her mind but also made a lot of personal comments about me. But I felt she was not really there. It was as if there was no real person there, behind all that talk.

At the same time, I saw her neediness & tried to help her. And I became the parentified child, caring for myself & the other children because there was so much she did not do. Our father came home late, only to sleep.

But sometimes she did help me to get my wishes met, particularly via money or dealing with my father so I could do something like study a particular course at school. I appreciated that very much. I was not particularly demanding though, but some things were important to me & I asked. She did not assist with the most important thing I wanted, a stable, loving, sane & happy home & a mother I could turn to.

I coped with her by setting limits/boundary setting. She was not usually cooperative. Some things I had to learn to accept & to do what I could to remedy any resulting problem, such as going elsewhere to study & preparing meals for my brother & sisters.

I have had less & less to do with her as I and my children have become older. I have come to understand her quite well & I don't want to experience her behaviour. I wonder if I have become uncaring of her. Up to 18 years ago, I was too considerate of her, basically letting her get away with too much behaviour I did not want, but never anything like completely.

Your post sounds like something I have written. I completely empathize with you about being the "parent" to your parent and other children. I feel like I have been a mother myself since I was very young, to the extent that my BPD mother would yell at me for "mothering" my sister proclaiming "YOU are not her mother! I AM!" The fact it was a point of argument (bear in mind she was arguing with a small child) interests me to this day. I was actually providing my younger sister the emotional support and nurturing a mother should be providing even as young as five years old. My mother was a functional alcoholic most of our lives, so she would become a drooling, babbling baby (which I resented terribly) and need to be put to bed. To this day, I cannot stand to see her drunk for that reason. My mom does, however, always have a penny to spend. It is as if buying things makes it all OK on some level... .
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2020?

Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2020 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
40days_in_desert
Ahquei3s
alphabeta
ArtistGuy70
AskingWhy
At Bay
Avanzando
Beneck
bigredneck
Bittlecat
Boll Weevil
calmboom
Cat Familiar
Chosen
Dnmtnbkr
drained1996
Eggshellsbroken
FaithHopeLove
Forgiveness
GaGrl
ggGreg
Gift to Myself
gotbushels
Harri
Imatter33
Jazzy48
jdc
jones54
Katrinalove
LLgreen
Longterm
loyalwife
lucidone
Manifest32f
MariannaR
Methuen
mgirl
Minttea
Mommydoc
Mutt
narcdaughter2
NorseWoman
Notgoneyet
oceanheart
oftentimes
Omega1
Only Human
PeacefulMom
pest947
podsnapG
ProudDad12
pursuingJoy
Radcliff
Raul
Recycle
Resiliant
Rev
Rosheger
SamwizeGamgee
Sandalwood
SCM
SerendipityChild
SES
Skip
StillStuck
Swimmy55
Teno
truthbeknown
Ventak
vinnie77
wavewatcher
wendydarling
whirlpoollife
Wicker Man
WindofChange
worn_out
WTL
zaqsert

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!