Why do I repeat this pattern?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I can honestly say that everyone of my girlfriends and ex-wife have not been normal.  The girl that brought me here is without a doubt BPD.  The girl after who I swore I'd be careful with, well I broke it off after 8 months because she flipped out on me (I'm really starting to wonder if she had BPD too).

I've realized I'm repeating a pattern and am trying to identify why.  What is it in me that goes for these women?  Here are things I have identified thus far:

• I like to feel in control, like they need me.



• I like the adoration.



• I present many co-dependent characteristics (more so in the past) and have wanted to be the one thing they could depend on.



• I tend to look on the bright side too much.  I concentrate on the good characteristics and put up with too many bad.



• I get attached too quickly and have (again, more so in the past now) an idealistic view of love (since destroyed).



• I struggle with loneliness.



• I struggle with dysthymia.



• I have issues with my self-esteem and often place myself below attractive women (even if I don't act that way outwardly with them).

It's crazy... .Everyone woman/girl I've been in an exclusive relationship with (six in my life so far) has had issues that would probably make other guys run.  It's as if I have something to prove to them - that I am good. Wow... .that just hit me as feeling very true.  I'm trying to prove to them that I am good or of value... .?  I dunno... .

What are your thoughts on this?  Have you repeated this pattern and what in you is causing it to happen?

[FreeToBe]

I can honestly say that everyone of my girlfriends and ex-wife have not been normal.  The girl that brought me here is without a doubt BPD.  The girl after who I swore I'd be careful with, well I broke it off after 8 months because she flipped out on me (I'm really starting to wonder if she had BPD too).

I've realized I'm repeating a pattern and am trying to identify why.  What is it in me that goes for these women?  Here are things I have identified thus far:

• I like to feel in control, like they need me.



• I like the adoration.



• I present many co-dependent characteristics (more so in the past) and have wanted to be the one thing they could depend on.



• I tend to look on the bright side too much.  I concentrate on the good characteristics and put up with too many bad.



• I get attached too quickly and have (again, more so in the past now) an idealistic view of love (since destroyed).



• I struggle with loneliness.



• I struggle with dysthymia.



• I have issues with my self-esteem and often place myself below attractive women (even if I don't act that way outwardly with them).

It's crazy... .Everyone woman/girl I've been in an exclusive relationship with (six in my life so far) has had issues that would probably make other guys run.  It's as if I have something to prove to them - that I am good. Wow... .that just hit me as feeling very true.  I'm trying to prove to them that I am good or of value... .?  I dunno... .

What are your thoughts on this?  Have you repeated this pattern and what in you is causing it to happen?

[innerspirit]

Hi Dang -- that's some deep introspection you're sharing here and a huge first step -- identifying what patterns aren't working for you, the things in your control, that you can change.  I think the other pieces of the puzzle are the  red flags that you can watch for -- perhaps things in common to your exes.  I found the red flags (in retrospect about my X) a lot easier to put into words than what it was about me that drew me to him.  I felt so muzzled by all the feelings I wasn't supposed to let show about him that my defensiveness blinded me to such clarity about myself.  Still working on it.  So I think you're well on your way.

Wow... .that just hit me as feeling very true.  I'm trying to prove to them that I am good or of value... .? 

(Was that value based on your ability to rescue or change them?)

Sometimes I've had that feeling in posting here too, something gets put into words, expressed to others that may read the post, and it's an aha moment, just as I look at the screen and realize that -- hey --  I've just come up with something I didn't know that I had learned.

Anyway --



Thumbs up!  Thanks for providing a good example to the rest of us.

[FreeToBe]

I/S - I'm getting there... .  I've hung up my dating hat for good - for now  - at least until I can settle some of these issues with myself... .  For all I know, each of these girls I've been with could be saying "ya know, I keep dating that type of guy... ."

I'm tired of it.  I've seen relationships work - I've seen them last.  I want that.  I know we all do.  We are human beings, and we weren't made to go-it-alone.  However, it is our responsibility to ourselves to make sure we have our own STUFF together first.

We'll all get to that point eventually I hope.

[C12P21]

Hello.

This is quite a list

I like to feel in control, like they need me.

I like the adoration.

I present many co-dependent characteristics (more so in the past) and have wanted to be the one thing they could depend on.

I tend to look on the bright side too much.  I concentrate on the good characteristics and put up with too many bad.

I get attached too quickly and have (again, more so in the past now) an idealistic view of love (since destroyed).

I struggle with loneliness.

I struggle with dysthymia.

I have issues with my self-esteem and often place myself below attractive women (even if I don't act that way outwardly with them).

Have you considered approaching one topic on your list and discussing it?  I noted control is at the top, help me to understand about control and how that equates to a woman needing you? I think this is significant to look at, especially when you have so many females on this site willing to discuss the gender differences in regard to control.

Kuddos on your willingness to look at yourself and put it all out there... .it is refreshing.  The kind of introspection it takes to figure out what makes you tick is half the battle!

Take care.

C

[fogbound]

Dangnammitt

Your post describes me to a key. I can own every bullet point you listed. Put them all together and you get a superhero which is how I wanted to be percieved by my BPDw.

Your point about control I think is one of conditioning. Early in the r/s they wanted us to ride in and save the day which we joyously did. It empowered us to the point where we no longer considered our own lives and needs because we had "a job to do" and a damn important one at that. Got to save this maiden in destress. The rewards were better anything monetary like a knight would have received. We got sacks of self-esteem with the sex and adoration that came with it.

The one day we got our pink slips. We were laid off. How could she survive without us we ask? Well they were doing before we took over running their lives and they can do it again.

With nothing to do now we're left with just ourselves and it's a loney place. All our fears return because we don't have the distractions anymore. The pain of our failed mission eats at us. We're lousy knights because we could't save the maiden and now, she doesn't even care that we tried. She's found a new knight.

Now we have some choices to make we can go back and show her that she can't live without our help, we can ride off and find another damsel in distress or we can come to the realizaton that this sort of work is too difficult to do anymore and beging looking for something more stable.

[innerspirit]

I noted control is at the top, help me to understand about control and how that equates to a woman needing you? I think this is significant to look at, especially when you have so many females on this site willing to discuss the gender differences in regard to control.

Great idea.

Can you tell me, Dang, if you were motivated by, I'm not even sure how to say it, little opportunities to "educate" as well as rescue?  Was it just towards your GF at the time or do you think you tend in general to control?

(So that I don't hijack this thread, I'll start another about one about reactions to being controlled.)

[FreeToBe]

Hi folks... .

I think I misworded that first bullet.  It's not really about control... .  I was never the type to oversee my gf's or dictate the rules... .  I'm very much the opposite.   Never was the guy who said you can go here or there only with so and so etc... .

Its really more about superiority maybe (that sounds really bad).  Not in a mean way, but in a wanting to be needed kind of way... .  elevated.  I do sense a bit of narcissism in myself in this way... .  like I know I'm a good person and I want them to know it too.  It's really a bit weak I suppose.

I think it comes from low self-esteem, not really feeling good enough.  Make sense?

[FreeToBe]

Fogbound - yep. Exactly... .  white-night syndrome.  I have improved with this in my las r/s - I didn't see any major issues with her nor did I try to fix anything for her. 

It's no man's duty to serve another.

[lifeisgoodx10]

I've hung up my dating hat for good - for now  - at least until I can settle some of these issues with myself... .  For all I know, each of these girls I've been with could be saying "ya know, I keep dating that type of guy... ."

I'm tired of it.  I've seen relationships work - I've seen them last.  I want that.  I know we all do.  We are human beings, and we weren't made to go-it-alone.  However, it is our responsibility to ourselves to make sure we have our own STUFF together first.

We'll all get to that point eventually I hope.

Dang, this is where I am as well. It is now about working on "my" issues instead of trying to fill the void with another r/s. I truely thought the ex was the "one". I have been crushed by this failure and I'll never be the same. I still miss him but there are many many things I do not miss and connot continue to overlook.

I'm sad and I am questioning, "Is this all there is? What if the r/s with ex is the best there is?" ?

[C12P21]

Its really more about superiority maybe (that sounds really bad).  Not in a mean way, but in a wanting to be needed kind of way... .  elevated.  I do sense a bit of narcissism in myself in this way... .  like I know I'm a good person and I want them to know it too.  It's really a bit weak I suppose.

I think it comes from low self-esteem, not really feeling good enough.  Make sense?

Yes, it does make sense. What happens when she doesn't acknowledge that you are a really good person? What if the person you are with is unaware of your need for approval. And when I say that, it is not meant in a judging way, we all seek approval and support, validation from loved ones. The difference is: sometimes people are caught up with their lives and may not meet that need when you need it most. How able are you to articulate this vulnerablity to a woman? And are you comfortable to do so?

The reason I ask is this: my former partner is a powerful man in many ways and exuded self confidence but underneath the shiny surface was someone with a lot of self doubt and insecurities. When I had set backs in my life, I stopped being in tune with his needs and had needs of my own. His response was anger... .he couldn't tell me what he needed from me, he expected me to fill those needs. I couldn't live up to such expectations, no human can... we all fail from time to time.

This is a really interesting topic.

C

[2010]

•   I like to feel in control, like they need me.

Yes, they can’t do it for themselves. You will show them how. Rather than say, “who’s fault is that, Dorothy?” you say, “Step aside, dangnammit is here and I'll take care of it.”

•   I like the adoration.

Yes, of course you do. Attention is a drug. In order to get it, you’ll need to find suppliers in the form of helpless waifs you can rescue.

•   I present many co-dependent characteristics (more so in the past) and have wanted to be the one thing they could depend on.

Yes, selfless altruism really isn’t selfless, it’s self serving. Without a cause to fight for, where are you every day of your life? And why do you feel so badly without a cause to fight for?

•   I tend to look on the bright side too much.  I concentrate on the good characteristics and put up with too many bad.

Hmmm, the bright side is what you have to offer. But you cannot offer it to yourself without pulling along another human being to acknowledge it. You cant share the bright side in isolation- you've got to find a hapless waif that's down in the dumps to show it to. To teach. That really is the only way you'll get satisfaction- by forcing a waif to see your point of view.  

Placing your vision on to someone at your same level doesn't give you the respect you need- that woman may have her own viewpoint that you fear eclipses you. In fact, she may have her own view which you fear cancels out yours. No, it’s better for you to "teach" women who are troubled or who need help. Those women bring along blame and denial of their own issues as well as yours.  When they become uncontrollable it's up to you to control harder and "fix" things.  In effect, coming to the rescue in a crisis is your M.O and caring identity.

Without dramatic and erratic women and their drama, there's no need for you and that's scary. Dramatic behavior from others is very rewarding to your self construct of an altruistic male savior.

•   I get attached too quickly and have (again, more so in the past now) an idealistic view of love (since destroyed).

An idealistic, controlling, self serving idea of love that never was going to work and this has been proven to you now.

•   I struggle with loneliness.

Why wouldn't you be lonely without someone to compulsively fix? Your Core issues and self esteem are temporarily “fixed” by the altruistic controlling of another person, not yourself. It’s easier to fix others, harder to deal with you. You don’t seem to get the same energy from fixing yourself as you do others. (This is the start of your awakening to alternative fixes, namely yourself, and it involves a depression before you get better.)

•   I have issues with my self-esteem and often place myself below attractive women (even if I don't act that way outwardly with them).

Attractive women worry about losing their attractiveness- the beauty industry exists and flourishes because of fear. What wrinkle are you the balm for? What is their reward if they buy you (give attention to you and use you) and then take you home only to force you to sit on the counter top?  

And why do you get upset that you’ve allowed them to purchase you to fix their own problems but not allow them buyer’s remorse to look elsewhere for a solution?  When women are grasping, they grasp at straws, they grasp at what they are told to grasp at- and they unceremoniously dump their outdated solutions when the product doesn't deliver or doesn't work with their lifestyle. The reality is that the product doesn't deliver because it never could.

The only thing that will help is their own self reflection and power within themselves.  They should not use other people until after they have done everything possible for themselves. This is the entire plot of the Wizard of Oz and it still rings true. Just because you present yourself as the Wizard doesn't mean it's in Dorothy's best interest. She's got to do this herself.

[C12P21]

Thank you 2010 for your articulate and well stated post. It is honest and refreshing to read.

C

[FreeToBe]

2010 - I mostly agree... .

I recognized many of these issues in myself prior to my last r/s.  My last r/s was simply enjoying our time together.  There were no show stopping red flags from her for 7 mos.  I was careful to NOT get into a situation where this was about me saving her.  There was no need for saving in this case.  She went from kind and caring to pretty much evil in the course of a week with no known provocation on my part.  She would not communicate what the problem was... .so I left.  This was a major red flag for me. 

I appreciate your reply very much - I did sense that there was more in it than just being blunt; there seemed to be some tension as well... .no?

Your reply was very helpful to me.  I guess what I'm seeking, is how do I approach these making the necessay improvements in myself?  What is behind my need to feel approval in order to feel comfortable with myself?  How do I correct?  Perhaps these cannot be answered by another... . 

I'm frustrated.

[FreeToBe]

C - If she doesn't acknowledge it, I suppose at some level I feel lower self-worth.

it's not something I need constantly, but it helps to know you are valued.  I swear sometimes I wonder if I'm the one with BPD... .

[FreeToBe]

2010 - I see that I associate with the 'caring identity' I have created for myself - this persona per se.  But I truly do care and do want to help... .and see others happy... .hmmmm so I am comfortable and happy... .  I think I just answered what I was going to ask.

[Crystal Ball]

Your reply was very helpful to me. 

This has  been a great thread for me and I am betting also enlightening to others that read it.  I can see myself in your responses and has helped me go one more step forward in 'recovering'.  Thanks guys.  xoxox

2010 - I love 'blunt' responses.  They make someone stop in their tracks and think.

[C12P21]

[C - If she doesn't acknowledge it, I suppose at some level I feel lower self-worth. /quote]

I understand your statement and my hope is you think about it for awhile and ask yourself this question... .

"How can someone know how you feel unless you tell them"?

And what is the barrier that keeps you from stating your needs?

Once you figure out the barrier maybe then you will understand that the wall that is in place is created by you and it is there for a reason. Sometimes the events of our past, especially the ones from childhood, influence thinking, perception, and is the filter from which we view interactions with our loved ones.

Relationship is about trust, trusting someone enough to love you warts and all... .and if they don't, trusting enough that you love and accept yourself warts and all. You won't wait around for her acceptance or approval, it is inside of you, the beautiful person in there desiring connection, empathy and compassion for yourself. Once you feel that love and acceptance of you, it will be easier to connect with another human being.

C

[2010]

Most people start out from the aftermath of a transaction with a Borderline with looking at their beliefs. When your beliefs are challenged you are uneasy. Unhappy people really do live close to their fears.  Their fear is that their beliefs are untrue.  A great many Wars have been fought over beliefs. People have been killing each other over beliefs for centuries.

With Borderline personality, so much of the relationship cuts deep into our belief system about who we are, because Borderlines mirror back our best qualities at first. They mirror back to us what we want to see in ourselves. They do this because they know how important it is to our identity.  They also know that it’s what keeps us secured and coming back for more. Our beliefs and the Borderline's mirroring of them is our Achilles heel.

In a Borderline’s mind, the belief system you hold is not a shared belief; it is mirrored instead and used to fuse to you- to cling to you.  Later, when splitting occurs, you are cast off as a punishing, cruel person- you realize that this person used your beliefs against you.  It’s at that time that you need to not only recognize the failure of your own belief system as well as how you got in this position but also why it was used against you and where the weak spots are.

You’ve been challenged with the failure of this relationship- which is really the failure of your belief system. Whether or not you know it- your belief of yourself as good was not shared.  And there is a reason for that. You were actually a stand-in for a split bad parent in the Borderline mind- while you (and the Borderline) were a stand-in for the good parent of your own.

Splitting people into good and bad is a defense against the crushing blow of our foundation of beliefs.  We begin to take on the characteristics of Borderline personality in our post mortem, to salvage our egos at first, just like they did to us.  We split them into bad. This causes us anger and depression.

We feel that our idealized version of ourselves (that good person) was beyond reproach. We believed, that if we did well -we would receive good in return and be deserving of good.  Therefore, doing good meant we were undeserving of bad.

This was a our own splitting of ourselves- our own unhealthy narcissism- but not so fast.

The reason Borderline is a disorder is because you aren’t actually in a relationship with a person who can see both good and bad in the same person.  You are an idealized version of their parent. (This is unknown to you at the time.) And that parent can turn on a dime and become very, very cruel.  What you do know, is that you are an idealized version of your own parent- and this is something you've thought about for a long, long time. It is a protection for you against feeling badly about yourself.

Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you- is a fine belief we like to call the golden rule. The borderline gets this, but hasn’t any experience with the good part of it.  They want to find good- but only have experience with the fantasy of a super cruel parent.  The only good they know is that they don't deserve punishment. Meanwhile, they expect it.  Punishment lurks.

All for one- One for All. When we get involved with someone with Borderline, our perception of good is turned around on us- and this is where questioning of our belief system (what it means to be bad) begins.

Borderlines provide affirmation in the beginning of the relationship- in spades. But they also aren’t thinking of you. They are trying hard to recreate the original bond they had with a hypercritical parent and they are using you as an idealized stand-in. You, on the other hand, like being told how wonderful you are (and who doesn’t?)  because that’s what you wanted to hear from your own folks. This should work, right? You like being a living, teaching, breathing example of good.

Good people should be good- and bad people should be bad- but they seem to exist without any middle ground in your Borderline partner. (That’s why so many people wonder if the Borderline has multiple personalities.)

And unknown to you, the Borderline resembles a fantasized, idealized version of *your* parent- the one that *you* sought mirroring from in childhood but never really got a healthy dose from, because they were too busy or preoccupied with someone or something else at the time.  Preoccupied enough to send you out to the starting gate in life, without feeling secure about what you are supposed to do.   Should you stay behind and help? Maybe show others how useful you are so that you can help them? Should you help others instead of helping yourself? Instead of you?  This idealized parent you have in mind would certainly sacrifice all to help others.

When you got affirmation from a Borderline’s mirroring, it was like coming home again.  You saw the good in yourself, because it was mirrored back to you. This is what you needed to start from the gate- the borderline believed in you- and you could begin that race towards success.

Unfortunately, Borderlines don’t esoterically know what your ideals are; they don’t esoterically know what your good is.  They are mimics that cling for security because they are not able to separate and individuate. To a Borderline, to begin a race means that they get left behind- your race means you are leaving.  Your success means you are withdrawing.  In your mind, you remember it differently. You want to begin the race; so that you can begin to mature and be a success in life- to find happiness.  This was supported in mirroring. This was evident in the expectation of that mirroring; that someone believes in you and they can join in the dream alongside you.

This idealized version of yourself has been created by you in wishful thinking and mirrored back by the borderline. You’ve been mesmerized by it. Meanwhile, the Borderline has an idea that you’re going out the door with it to begin the rat race- which triggers their fear of losing you. They know how to get back at you- and they withhold your reward (the mirror). But unfortunately you need that Borderline mirroring. It’s like a drug. You become distraught, anxious, enraged- the Borderline holds the reflective power and all you see is their inept, inconsiderate, passive aggressive, punishing, punitive acting-out that makes no sense. Why would they want to hurt you? Why do they want to break the mirror?

By withholding their mirror, they force you to question the Borderline behavior and begin to formulate ways to control it.  that's how they keep you captive in the web. To the Borderline, you are now an inconsiderate, passive aggressive, punishing, punitive person. You are now *demanding* of the mirror.  You are the BAD parent that they always knew you were. There is no good. Mission accomplished for a Borderline.

So you think, what Bad parent?  You are the idealized good parent and you will show them... .Your goal is to get that mirroring back that supports your idealized idea of yourself.  This is your destiny, dammit.  You’ll fix them. You’ll show them what’s valuable and what’s good.  You’ve had experience from childhood, you’ve had training, but you’ve overcome most of those issues from childhood and you know what's important.  And what's important is that you are supported. The Borderline just needs a reminder, that’s all. Just like your parents did from childhood.

When it’s over- oh! So close, and yet… not complete. You can either return in obsessional retries to re-engage that mirror, (failing every time,) or- you’ll give up and move on- splitting the Borderline into the same evil, punitive punisher that the Borderline believes exists in you.  (This is actually the beginning of a a deux, an emotional contagion and repetition compulsion that you and the Borderline will not be successful resolving and will keep you both in a F.O.G. unless you break free.)

You may go out looking again for a replacement. But, the only way to get that opportunity of mirroring is to find another person *without* a strong identity that elevates your own identity by mirroring.  Mirroring  your goodness, because that’s how you see yourself. (It’s where you get your value.) It’s also where you get your self esteem.  And the only way to do that is to find someone that thinks you’re the greatest, which means they have issues of their own. Maybe it’s someone who is down on their luck. Someone who needs help.  Someone you can encourage- someone you can sacrifice for. An easy way to get your fix of yourself by fixing others.

What’s wrong with that?

Well, let’s say you entered the Tour de France. 20 stages, 2,200 miles, covering the entire nation of France. Your bike is ready, you’ve studied the map of the first stage and you’re looking forward to a great race. After the start, you feel great; going strong, wind in your hair. Maybe about two miles in, you notice another cyclist has a flat tire, so you stop and help. This is your “caring identity” and you feel it is the right thing to do. Later, you find another cyclist with a flat and you think, “Well, they need help too.” So you stop.  When you arrive 2 hours late to the finish line, a reporter stops and asks you why you chose to sacrifice your own chance to win the race to help someone else.  “It was the right thing to do,” you say.

The next day: feeling good about the day before.  The 2nd stage begins. The start is smooth and you are moving fast, but you see another cyclist with a flat. You stop. This time it’s different, the cyclist you wish to help, wants no part of you and throws a punch.  You recoil in shock and he throws another punch. You were only trying to help- now you demand answers as to why he is so abusive to you. The pugilist cyclist gets on his bike and rides away, leaving you to regroup. When you arrive 2 hours late to the finish line, a reporter asks you why you chose to sacrifice your own chance in the race to *fight* someone else.  “I was trying to help. It was the right thing to do.”  The reporter asks you if you are going to fight tomorrow.  “No,” you reply, “I am only going to help people that need my help!” “How will you know?” The reporter asks. “I will ask them,” you say.

The next day: feeling badly about the day before.  The 3nd stage begins. The start is smooth and you are moving fast, but you see the same cyclist as the first day with another flat. You don’t stop. You call out, “do you need help?” The other cyclist, having heard that you got into a fight the day before- says, “I would like help, but not if you are going to hurt me.”  You stop, question the gossip, and neither of you actually fixes the spare tire until the owner of the bike waves you off in frustration and eventually fixes it himself. When you arrive 2 hours late to the finish line, a reporter asks you why you chose to sacrifice your own chance in the race to *argue* with someone else.  “I asked to help. It was the right thing to do.”  The reporter asks you if you are going to argue tomorrow.  “No,” you reply, “I am only going to help people that need my help” “How will you know?” The reporter asks. “I will wait for them to ask me rather than for me to ask them,” you say.

The next day: you are feeling assured that your efforts will not be wasted again. The 4th stage begins. The start is smooth and you are moving fast, but you see a cyclist with a flat. You don’t stop. The stranded cyclist calls out, “could you help please?” You stop, and fix the tire. When you arrive 2 hours late to the finish line, a reporter asks you why you chose to sacrifice your own chance in the race to sabotage someone else’s tire.  “What do you mean sabotage? I was asked to help. It was the right thing to do.”  The reporter asks you if you are going to sabotage anyone elses tire tomorrow.  “No,” you reply, “I don’t sabotage others. “How do you know?” The reporter asks. “Because it appears that I only sabotage myself,” you say.

The next day: feeling guarded. The 5th stage begins. The start is smooth and you are moving fast, but you see a cyclist with a flat. You don’t stop. The stranded cyclist calls out, “could you help?” You don’t stop. “Sorry,” you say. When you arrive to the head of the pack you see Lance Armstrong, who says, “where have you been?”

You cross the finish line in contention with others; a reporter asks you why you feel you are deserving of participating in the race rather than stopping and helping others. “It was the right thing to do,” you say. “How do you know?” The reporter asks. “Because I’ve got to help myself, before I help others.   Anything else and I’m not really participating in the race- I’m sacrificing myself instead, for someone else’s dream. And that wasn't working for me.”  

[innerspirit]

2010 --

Just want to say thanks for your insightful writing.



Am realizing the irony for me in your bicycle race analogy -- when X and I first started dating, he was on the board of a local bike race and we would drive back and forth along the route checking for people who might need help.  Who might want help, that's the better way to put it.  I don't remember that X imposed his help on the racers, but between him and me, there developed a profound dynamic of rescue back and forth.

[C12P21]

2010.

Thanks for the post... .and have you considered writing a book? Your writing is clear.

C

[hiddenlizard]

2010, amazing post, thank you.

Re:wanting to be "needed" and "control"

My stbx is a building contractor. Even before we were married he began to remodel my house. I had misgivings. I wanted to pay him but he refused. He knew what I felt, how the constant chaos in my home unsettled me and he used this to control me.  When he left or threatened to leave one of the first thoughts in my mind was how to get my house put back together. His "help" was manipulation at the same time that it fed his need to be "needed". I have been told several times by several different people of both genders that it is a "guy" thing to want to "fix" things. Maybe. Until it becomes a tool or even a weapon.

My physically and psychologically abusive mother also attempted to create situations in which she could be a "savior".  It is little wonder that my need to be independent is so easily labeled as pathological. But I nevertheless fall for someone who will help create the changes in my life that I can't or won't or don't know how to initiate on my own. My late husband, while we had a very good marriage, was able to provide stability in my life, a need that was not provided in my family. A boyfriend who turned out to be an abusive alcoholic offered adventure and spontaneity that my marriage had lacked. My stbx appeared to offer everything, a helpmate and a companion, a lover and a friend; a change I did not even know I wanted any longer following the death of my first husband and the abusive boyfriend. He offered an escape from the loneliness and the isolation which fed the fear of change. I knew what my life contained and while I was discontent I was comfortable. I was also in the midst of recalling and coming to terms with childhood abuse which I had successfully blocked for much of my life and had come through a life threatening accident. This man loved and accepted me and offered a change in my life but his love and acceptance was fake and the change was not as positive as it appeared in the beginning.

I need to believe that I can become what it is I wish for. I need to believe that I can do it on my own. Until I accept my own power I will continue to allow others to control my horizon.

[DAS]

It's crazy... .Everyone woman/girl I've been in an exclusive relationship with (six in my life so far) has had issues that would probably make other guys run.  

Totally in the same boat mate. Except most of mine were completely disinterested in terming it "exclusive". And they say guys are commitment phobes.

What are your thoughts on this?  Have you repeated this pattern and what in you is causing it to happen?

No idea but it is depressing as hell.

[DAS]

The next day: you are feeling assured that your efforts will not be wasted again. The 4th stage begins. The start is smooth and you are moving fast, but you see a cyclist with a flat. You don’t stop. The stranded cyclist calls out, “could you help please?” You stop, and fix the tire. When you arrive 2 hours late to the finish line, a reporter asks you why you chose to sacrifice your own chance in the race to sabotage someone else’s tire.  “What do you mean sabotage? I was asked to help. It was the right thing to do.”  The reporter asks you if you are going to sabotage anyone elses tire tomorrow.  “No,” you reply, “I don’t sabotage others. “How do you know?” The reporter asks. “Because it appears that I only sabotage myself,” you say.

The next day: feeling guarded. The 5th stage begins. The start is smooth and you are moving fast, but you see a cyclist with a flat. You don’t stop. The stranded cyclist calls out, “could you help?” You don’t stop. “Sorry,” you say. When you arrive to the head of the pack you see Lance Armstrong, who says, “where have you been?”

You cross the finish line in contention with others; a reporter asks you why you feel you are deserving of participating in the race rather than stopping and helping others. “It was the right thing to do,” you say. “How do you know?” The reporter asks. “Because I’ve got to help myself, before I help others.   Anything else and I’m not really participating in the race- I’m sacrificing myself instead, for someone else’s dream. And that wasn't working for me.”  

I'm still at the 4th day. I can't even envision riding past someone who asks for help. Winning the race is less important. That we're all so focused on winning our individual pursuits - therein lies the collosal failure of humanity.

[Intent_to_learn]

Really dig the imagery of the bicycle race, 2010.  If that doesn't catapult us out of our false illusions, I don't know what will.  Lance's words at the end ring loud and clear today.  Thanks, 2010, for your invaluable contribution here.

[DAS]

Really dig the imagery of the bicycle race, 2010.  If that doesn't catapult us out of our false illusions, I don't know what will.  Lance's words at the end ring loud and clear today.  Thanks, 2010, for your invaluable contribution here.

Still - most of us here... .Are we not helping other's who have busted tires and are looking for help? As we continue with our own flats.

I can't buy the "you must focus on yourself to the exclusion of everyone else" as a worthy or rewarding principle.

[lifeisgoodx10]

In a Borderline’s mind, the belief system you hold is not a shared belief; it is mirrored instead and used to fuse to you- to cling to you.  Later, when splitting occurs, you are cast off as a punishing, cruel person- you realize that this person used your beliefs against you.

Very well put twenty-ten.

Splitting people into good and bad is a defense against the crushing blow of our foundation of beliefs.  We begin to take on the characteristics of Borderline personality in our post mortem, to salvage our egos at first, just like they did to us.  We split them into bad. This causes us anger and depression.

I split xhBPD/NPD into bad and “yes” it made me feel as though I am the BPD. I still wonder if I am borderline.

You are the BAD parent that they always knew you were. There is no good. Mission accomplished for a Borderline.

After I left and divorced xhBPD and we had done some back and forth of the BPD dance he said to me once, “So now you know my greatest fear. My greatest fear is that women will leave me.”

Of course he did or didn’t do things in the r/s to ensure that I “would” eventually leave recreating his r/s with mother.

The next day: feeling guarded. The 5th stage begins. The start is smooth and you are moving fast, but you see a cyclist with a flat. You don’t stop. The stranded cyclist calls out, “could you help?” You don’t stop. “Sorry,” you say. When you arrive to the head of the pack you see Lance Armstrong, who says, “where have you been?”

So when we come out of the isolation imposed on us by a BPD r/s and family and friends as, “Where have you been?” We can reply, “I’ve been busy fixing flats!” !

I think that is how the isolation sneaks up on us in this type r/s. We really are busy trying to “fix” flats in the BPD r/s or continually putting out fires just to try and have some kind of normalcy in our interaction with BPDer. hmmmmmm ?

[FreeToBe]

2010 - Thanks for the time, effort, and insight.  I appreciate it. 

As hard as it is for me to not go out and find another bandaid for my boo-boo, I'm taking some time to get myself together. 

I realize that the only common line running through all my screwy relationships has been me.  I've bottomed out at this point divorce, failed relationships... .  somethings got to change and I can't change anyone else (I've tried - doesn't work).  I'm getting older and do not have the stamina to do this crazy dance anymore.

Thanks for giving me a hand with my flat tire... .

[Manon46]

Really dig the imagery of the bicycle race, 2010.  If that doesn't catapult us out of our false illusions, I don't know what will.  Lance's words at the end ring loud and clear today.  Thanks, 2010, for your invaluable contribution here.

Still - most of us here... .Are we not helping other's who have busted tires and are looking for help? As we continue with our own flats.

I can't buy the "you must focus on yourself to the exclusion of everyone else" as a worthy or rewarding principle.

Me neither, having lot of problems to go for your own and leave all behind... what about the people who do need help, aren\t we helping eachother here too, reaching out, taking hands...

What if for everyone winning the race is most important, it will be some kind survival of the fittest... and the rest is left behind...

An extreme narcissistic society, where there is no place for the weaker ones... or the ill ones...

To me it seems less important to win, if you can help and finish later is not so important.

I think it becomes a problem, when we get slapped in the face, to realize if help is not wanted to move on, that doesn't mean, you can't help someone who does appreciate it.

It's a fine line between helping and sacrifice, I think most of us cross that line, due to upbringing and christianity in stead of using common sense... but keep believing what we were taught, without taking care of our own out of guilt...

[angst]

Holy toledo, there is A LOT of good stuff inside this thread. I will add this: I came to this site to learn about a mental illness, instead I learned about myself. I began to recognize my contribution to my circumstances. I've learned I need to change the way I think, respond and behave... .I've learned that's A LOT harder then it logically appears.

Why is it so difficult? Better the fears we know kinda thing? No idea, maybe engrained thinking, entranched behavior patterns, possibly childhood issues... .yet none of that matters when the answers are clear for correction... .then it's a matter of application and will power.

Good thread... .stay the course.

[innerspirit]

I think we're touching on another kind of black/white thinking.

Either a Scrooge who sees people needing help and refuses to care -- or a martyr fulfilled by being a rescuer, who drops all of his/her own needs in order to help.

Aren't we looking for some personal balance within those extremes?

It's a big life lesson, isn't it, that healthy boundaries will allow for just judging things case by case.  You're right, angst, lots to learn on the inside.