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Author Topic: Strange Sexual Behaviors?  (Read 11093 times)
bluelotus9
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« Reply #60 on: December 08, 2010, 04:51:13 PM »

A very relevant topic. The sexual aspect was non-stop when I first met my exuBPDgf. Interestingly she hardly ever had orgasm, but it was very important to her that I did. She said to me on several occasions that men would f&^k anyone, which played into her very jealous nature, despite the fact I pointed out to her that males were not all the same! Generally she had a very negative attitude towards males.

If I was too tired, and didn't want sex, then she would get very upset and it would be a major blow to our relationship. True intimacy was always difficult with her since she was emotionally distancing, and as I tried to explain to her, we needed to spend more time actually sleeping together (once a week if I was lucky!), and eventually I accused her of just wanting a f**k buddy. Afterward she accused me of calling her a prostitute instead, but I never said that and she wouldn't believe me!

This was a complete shock that she had blanked out what I really said. I still don't quite understand it, unless she felt guilty about her prior promiscuous behaviour, or maybe she'd been abused... .?

Thoughts or similar experiences appreciated... .

Blue
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pallavirajsinghani
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« Reply #61 on: December 08, 2010, 06:50:53 PM »

The reason I ask is because I have a sneaking (and jealous) suspicion that all this great sex was before the first child was born.  Please let me know.  Thanks. 

~GD



My point exactly.  Puppets dancing with no apparent strings = Magic.

Incidentally what does it reveal about ourselves when we define the most satisfying sexual encounter as "porn star quality"---knowing fully well that the entire porn is acting.

We hold a fake performance as the ultimate gold standard of purity.  This is quite immature on our part isn't it?  And yet; we the children;  find the loved ones with BPD as "childlike".

We know that porn is a fairy tale.  It is a made up thing.  And yet, we hold it to be an "ideal".

This post is not a criticism, merely an attempt to understand ourselves, and to question as to what do the semantics we use show us to be.
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NHBeachBum
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« Reply #62 on: December 08, 2010, 06:55:52 PM »

Yes... .of course we men want a woman to tell us what she likes/wants.  That's the problem with a relationship with a pwBPD... .they are sexually uninhibited to a certain degree because it is all part of the dance.  They hook you in any way they know how... .and if sex if your thing, then they will become an artist in the bedroom... .My BPDw knows how to get me off better than I could myself!  Someone so dedicated to being your perfect mate, will do whatever it takes... .at great lengths, to make you commit to them and not abandon them.  If it were real it would be the most amazing love story ever told... .but the evidence is in (or at least at my house)... .it's not real... .it is a fantasy put forth only for my amusement.  Long after the crazy sex in the bedroom is over, the craziness still exists in the kitchen, the dining room, the family room, the garage, etc... .they are tormented and can't help themselves... .

What killed me was that no matter how great I thought the sex was (and she says the same), they still have a strong likelihood of cheating.  That is so crushing to me.

Yeah - that pretty much sums it up - my exBPDgf used sex as a way to control & manipulate me. That was her hook and her pattern of history. Use sex to control her "soul mate", manipulate them with lies, smoke & mirrors, then break up the relationship with the final phase being projection of all blame onto her "soul mate". Mean while, as you wrote, she has already been cheating, fishing for the next unsuspecting "soul mate". Seems to all revolve around crazy porn star sex to get the "soul mate" interested & hooked. 3+ hours of sex daily to hook me... .and she still cheated on me! Silly dumb-ass. Laugh out loud (click to insert in post).

Don't be crushed FoolishOne. I was painful to learn the truth about my exBPDgf but it's not my fault she's a lying, cheating, abusive person. I didn't cause, no one can control it, so no need to get upset about it. I'm actually relieved that I don't have to be exposed to that drama/trauma anymore! As you wrote "they are tormented and can't help themselves"... .their issue not ours.

-NHBB
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grimalkin
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« Reply #63 on: December 08, 2010, 07:03:39 PM »

Incidentally what does it reveal about ourselves when we define the most satisfying sexual encounter as "porn star quality"---knowing fully well that the entire porn is acting.

We hold a fake performance as the ultimate gold standard of purity.  This is quite immature on our part isn't it?  And yet; we the children;  find the loved ones with BPD as "childlike".

We know that porn is a fairy tale.  It is a made up thing.  And yet, we hold it to be an "ideal".

This post is not a criticism, merely an attempt to understand ourselves, and to question as to what do the semantics we use show us to be.

I don't know if I'd describe my experience as porn star quality.  It was much too emotional for that.  That's my problem.  I guess I'd say the actual performance (no, I don't mean "acting" was "as good" as anything Ive seen in porn, but truthfully it was the combination of actual emotional connection, sensitivity and attentiveness that was so earth-shattering.  That is why it's going to be hard to follow up.  He was never fake during sex.  That was the one time I could be sure everything was genuine and real.

Grim
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Undertowed
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« Reply #64 on: December 08, 2010, 07:24:50 PM »

My point exactly.  Puppets dancing with no apparent strings = Magic.

Incidentally what does it reveal about ourselves when we define the most satisfying sexual encounter as "porn star quality"---knowing fully well that the entire porn is acting.

We hold a fake performance as the ultimate gold standard of purity.  This is quite immature on our part isn't it?  And yet; we the children;  find the loved ones with BPD as "childlike".

We know that porn is a fairy tale.  It is a made up thing.  And yet, we hold it to be an "ideal".

This post is not a criticism, merely an attempt to understand ourselves, and to question as to what do the semantics we use show us to be.

I don't know that we're all defining these as the most satisfying because they are "porn star" quality.  I can only speak for my encounters. They were like the difference between a mixed drink and a Long Island Iced Tea.  The Iced Tea has so many shots in it that it is waaaay more potent than the average drink so you can't help but remember it.  I'm defining it as the most intense and thorough encounter because we're talking hours of attention paid to every body part.   That's actually far longer than any porn performance.  Certainly, in my case, it was emotionally intimate but the problem was that he couldn't sustain that intimacy outside the bedroom.  His feelings were all too real.  Any guy who looked at me was a threat.  Any idea that I might pull away required a drink and a pep talk to calm him.  It was real but unbalanced and fleeting emotional involvement.  It was sincere in the moment--that's the down side. 

I can understand if that's how you feel about your experience(s), though.  I get that it's something you want to give some analysis and consideration.
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DC Daniel
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« Reply #65 on: December 08, 2010, 07:27:17 PM »

The reason I ask is because I have a sneaking (and jealous) suspicion that all this great sex was before the first child was born.  Please let me know.  Thanks.  

~GD



My point exactly.  Puppets dancing with no apparent strings = Magic.

Incidentally what does it reveal about ourselves when we define the most satisfying sexual encounter as "porn star quality"---knowing fully well that the entire porn is acting.

We hold a fake performance as the ultimate gold standard of purity.  This is quite immature on our part isn't it?  And yet; we the children;  find the loved ones with BPD as "childlike".

We know that porn is a fairy tale.  It is a made up thing.  And yet, we hold it to be an "ideal".

This post is not a criticism, merely an attempt to understand ourselves, and to question as to what do the semantics we use show us to be.

Interesting points... My defenition of "porn star" is pop culture term to describe exhilarating, passionate, "connected" even animalistic sex... .Yet you do bring up some thought provoking ideas... .Society does put a lot of pressure around the issue of sex and monogamy.

Semantics aside, as I described in my original post, I have a hard time watching porn now without feeling sorry for a lot of the women that exhibit similar behaviors that didn't seem so obvious to me when I was enmeshed with my exBPDW... .


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grimalkin
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« Reply #66 on: December 08, 2010, 07:28:18 PM »

My point exactly.  Puppets dancing with no apparent strings = Magic.

Incidentally what does it reveal about ourselves when we define the most satisfying sexual encounter as "porn star quality"---knowing fully well that the entire porn is acting.

We hold a fake performance as the ultimate gold standard of purity.  This is quite immature on our part isn't it?  And yet; we the children;  find the loved ones with BPD as "childlike".

We know that porn is a fairy tale.  It is a made up thing.  And yet, we hold it to be an "ideal".

This post is not a criticism, merely an attempt to understand ourselves, and to question as to what do the semantics we use show us to be.

I don't know that we're all defining these as the most satisfying because they are "porn star" quality.  I can only speak for my encounters. They were like the difference between a mixed drink and a Long Island Iced Tea.  The Iced Tea has so many shots in it that it is waaaay more potent than the average drink so you can't help but remember it.  I'm defining it as the most intense and thorough encounter because we're talking hours of attention paid to every body part.   That's actually far longer than any porn performance.  Certainly, in my case, it was emotionally intimate but the problem was that he couldn't sustain that intimacy outside the bedroom.  His feelings were all too real.  Any guy who looked at me was a threat.  Any idea that I might pull away required a drink and a pep talk to calm him.  It was real but unbalanced and fleeting emotional involvement.  It was sincere in the moment--that's the down side.

YES.  THANK YOU.
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greenlove
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« Reply #67 on: December 08, 2010, 07:46:28 PM »

What is porn star quality sex?  I don't mean to be naive, but I've had great sex in relationships, and yes, one was an NPD sex addict, but I was in love with him.  He really liked the sex and it was great, although in time sex became all about filling his need, and it got shorter and shorter, and well, maybe that's porn star quality? quick?  I hated that part. 
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Undertowed
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« Reply #68 on: December 08, 2010, 07:47:46 PM »

The reason I ask is because I have a sneaking (and jealous) suspicion that all this great sex was before the first child was born.  Please let me know.  Thanks. 

~GD



My point exactly.  Puppets dancing with no apparent strings = Magic.

Incidentally what does it reveal about ourselves when we define the most satisfying sexual encounter as "porn star quality"---knowing fully well that the entire porn is acting.

We hold a fake performance as the ultimate gold standard of purity.  This is quite immature on our part isn't it?  And yet; we the children;  find the loved ones with BPD as "childlike".

We know that porn is a fairy tale.  It is a made up thing.  And yet, we hold it to be an "ideal".

This post is not a criticism, merely an attempt to understand ourselves, and to question as to what do the semantics we use show us to be.

One more thing that just occurred to me.  We're in a society that frowns on most physical interaction unlike other societies where men hug and kiss each other and hold hands and women can do the same, that level of sexual expression is remarkable. Here it's not cool to hug and kiss people you just meet or acquaintances.  Many people are raised in families that don't hug or show affection and are starved. To have a mate pay attention to every last surface cell of your body and look into your eyes and talk to you asking what you want and DOING IT is amazing. That could be the BPD person's story, one of our stories, or both. Every person isn't the same so the encounters that others have had may have been less emotional and more mechanical but the sincere desire to touch another person as deeply as you can is real.  Had my ex been as skilled at being in a relationship instead of vindictiveness, I wouldn't have had to kick his butt out.

This is my long winded way of saying I don't agree that it's an all or nothing proposition.  I don't agree that only performing well physically means there's no sincere and real and pure desire to connect and perform emotionally.
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rich5a
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« Reply #69 on: December 08, 2010, 09:00:34 PM »

I was so consumed with her and her raw sexual horsepower that I wanted to physically eat her. I mean cut her into pieces so I could have her inside me. I told her that many times. That kind if intensity is near impossible to walk away from.

incredible>> I have told my xBPDso the exact same thing many, many times. I wanted to eat her... .literally bite into her,  that and I wanted to open her up and crawl inside. Still its intoxicating.
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grimalkin
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« Reply #70 on: December 08, 2010, 09:07:19 PM »

I was so consumed with her and her raw sexual horsepower that I wanted to physically eat her. I mean cut her into pieces so I could have her inside me. I told her that many times. That kind if intensity is near impossible to walk away from.

incredible>> I have told my xBPDso the exact same thing many, many times. I wanted to eat her... .literally bite into her,  that and I wanted to open her up and crawl inside. Still its intoxicating.

Yep.  I heard the same thing from my ex.  I didn't want to eat him, I just wanted to HAVE him-- all of him, all at once.  Amounts to pretty much the same thing.
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rich5a
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« Reply #71 on: December 08, 2010, 09:14:33 PM »

I don't think they're faking this intensity that's shown through their eyes while making love.  I saw my ex's eyes change, too.  What I believe was going on with him at those moments was he was actually present.  I think it took strong emotion to get his attention; to bring him home to himself, if you will.  There were tender moments afterward, too.  The sad thing is I was able to feel that connected outside of the sexual arena.  I've been brought to moments of sheer joy that had nothing to do with sex, and I can't recall him ever doing so.  Most of the time his eyes were sort of blank and darty. 

My ex even told me that he felt 'connected' after spending some time with me.  At first I thought it meant he felt connected to me, but I later started wondering if it didn't make him feel connected to himself.  He had a problem with object constancy.  He told me that his therapist had recommended he carry a photo of me.  He didn't seem to care that much about talking to me unless he knew he was going to see me.  If we had a date, he would always pick up his phone, but if we weren't going to see each other and he felt I just wanted to talk, he didn't.  That seemed so odd to me too.  I figured if we couldn't see each other, we could talk, but it wasn't that way for him. 

Many people who've been sexually abused confuse sex and love.  They will try to win approval by performing sexually.  They don't know any other way to feel loved.  I did this for years myself.  I kept chasing men who were emotionally unavailable and trying to get them to 'stay.'  Part of my plan included sexual performance.  I learned early on the power a woman can have over a man.  Now, I wasn't aware of the dynamic until I had some therapy and realized it was all tied in with being sexually abused and abandoned by my parents.  Also, I didn't learn about physical boundaries, so before treatment I was more of an anything goes girl.  I recieved very little pleasure from sex.  Orgasm wasn't the goal, connection wasn't the goal either.  The excitement was from the power.  Sort of like 'see, I can make you love me.'  So, what's the difference between me and my ex?  I was able (thankfully) to come to terms with what had happened to me.  I was willing to do the necessary work to understand why I kept recycling through the dynamic of emotionally unavailable partners.  I came to understand that it wasn't fair to seduce someone in order to have power over them (manipulation).  I cared about how my actions led me down paths where I didn't have any sort of true connection.  I wanted something deeper for myself.  I was able to release the shame associated with sexual abuse.  My ex's shame shattered him.  My knowledge of his shattering and shame kept me roped in.  I understood what he was feeling because I had experienced it too.  He still isn't able to even comprehend his damage.  He needed to hide behind my past.  It helped him feel superior.  You know, like the drunk who hangs out with the guy under the bridge because 'he's worse off.'  Doing this helps the other person come to terms with their own pain.  My ex's chaos kept me from looking at my own pain, too.

My ex slept with his father until he was a teenager.  He'd never told anyone about this practice before me and when he did tell me he made it a point to say, without being asked, "But it wasn't sexual."  But when he tried to pretend that he wasn't damaged in our first session by not talking about any of this while I sat there and said exactly what my deal was, it made me angry.  We looked like a classic example of good boy meets girl from the wrong side of the tracks.  I confronted him and he had no choice but to fess up at the next session.  When the therapist asked him, "So, everyone in your family knew what was happening?"  He got angry and said, "They knew."  To my knowledge, that's as far as he's gotten with this.  I wanted to scream, "They knew what?"  If he can ever get to that core issue, he may have a chance of healing from it and, like us, begin to chip away at the iceburg of shame and abandonment and guilt and remorse that caused him to stay at the cognitive level of a toddler.  I doubt he will though.  He's gone back to a young, troubled woman who he can focus on her issues instead of his own.  Her consequences (she's in early recovery from drug/alcohol) will keep him busy for a while.  He needs that crazy life and sexual attention to survive.  If he looked square in the eyes of his pain it would shatter him more.  Or so he thinks.  This is another element that kept me roped in.  I kept thinking if I could do it, so could he.  I wasn't very understanding that some people cannot do this kind of work and some people don't want to.  Once I accepted that, for now, he wants and or needs to remain where he is, and that I want and need to experience further healing, another one of the ties that bind were broken. 

Sorry for the ramble, but these posts always make me think Smiling (click to insert in post)

I would like to believe she was present... .and yes I was able to hold on to those moments outside of the bedroom, unlike her, which early on baffled me.

Also I like your point on was she connecting with me or connecting with herself?

Thank you for sharing so much Lydia... I too am a survivor of sexual abuse.

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needforhope
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« Reply #72 on: December 08, 2010, 09:25:51 PM »

I have come to the point of realizing that my uBPDxh was abusive sexually. He pressured me into doing many things I was not the least comfortable with and if I said no originally he would say okay but 5 minutes later would be pushing etc. Near the end of our relationship he was unable to perform and I was always to blame. I was never sexy enough, or willing enough, or drunk enough for his liking, and can't count the number of times I was told I was frigid. It became work to me. I know I completely disengaged emotionally and mentally. Even when he couldn't perform he would not stop (I know it is an ego thing) but it regularly went on for hours at a time (3 on average)... .so I am pretty sure that this can be considered strange sexual behavior.

Just writing this made me glad that I am free of that portion of the relationship and I can only hope that his girlfriend is suffering likewise (otherwise it becomes too easy to think that it might have )been my fault all along).

p.s. Gave my phone number to a nice guy who I see regularly (he told me he had been looking for my at his place of business and thinking about me). That is something I have never done in my entire life. I hope he calls but the thought of dating someone and eventual sexual activity scares me to death.
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Lydia
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« Reply #73 on: December 08, 2010, 10:29:10 PM »

Incidentally what does it reveal about ourselves when we define the most satisfying sexual encounter as "porn star quality"---knowing fully well that the entire porn is acting.

We hold a fake performance as the ultimate gold standard of purity.  This is quite immature on our part isn't it?  And yet; we the children;  find the loved ones with BPD as "childlike".

We know that porn is a fairy tale.  It is a made up thing.  And yet, we hold it to be an "ideal".

This post is not a criticism, merely an attempt to understand ourselves, and to question as to what do the semantics we use show us to be.

I don't know if I'd describe my experience as porn star quality.  It was much too emotional for that.  That's my problem.  I guess I'd say the actual performance (no, I don't mean "acting" was "as good" as anything Ive seen in porn, but truthfully it was the combination of actual emotional connection, sensitivity and attentiveness that was so earth-shattering.  That is why it's going to be hard to follow up.  He was never fake during sex.  That was the one time I could be sure everything was genuine and real.

Grim

I agree with Grim.  There wasn't anything porn star about our sex life.  He was the one who was quite inhibited when we first me.  Inhibited may not be the best word, really he was selfish.  If anything, I think he was drawn to my sexual freedom and I liked to have sex and didn't have a problem telling him what I liked.  There wasn't any porn, or agressive sexual acts between the two of us.  What we had was an amazing connection.  He was present during sex in a way that he wasn't otherwise. 
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Chipmunk
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« Reply #74 on: December 08, 2010, 11:45:45 PM »

WOW! I think mine was a sex addict.  It didn't bother me because I had a healthy appetite too.  The more he wanted the more I kept up with it.  I started to believe he was challenging me sexually.  In the earlier parts of our relationship our normal sessions were twice a day.  First thing in the morning and at bedtime.  On the weekends when we were both home it was 5-8 times a day.  I was amazed a man had my appetite.  But although we were having sex it was never quality sex.  He did not know how to pay attention to a woman's body to know how to help her reach an orgasm.  During the earlier part of our sex life I never orgasmed.  I taught him how to apply his emotions with sex.  He never understood what I meant by that. Once he started to do it then I orgasmed.  But after I orgasmed he couldn't tell... .STRANGE!

The more I expressed that I loved the sex little by little he started to manipulate me with it.  Soon he was no longer doing it.  Soon it turned into he would rather please himself to porn rather than to have sex with me.  I refused to allow this to bother me.  I refused to feel rejected, therefore, I did not take it personal.  I felt any man that was willing to turn down a woman that was laying in his bed to jerk off meant something was wrong with him and not me.  Also, I felt he wasn't on my level sexually. I was deeply attracted to him... .and it was difficult to resist his almost pleasing sex.

My ex was addicted to porn.  He even performed like a porn star.  I told him this one time in bed.  He was always taking male enhancer pills.  When I found out I flipped out.  He would masturbate several times a day... .even at work.  I later found out he was meeting women online.  At first I didn't know if I was just dating an hit_ or someone with mental issues.
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brenbabe
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« Reply #75 on: December 09, 2010, 12:19:08 AM »

Lydia,

Mine was exactly like yours. I wonder what makes them one way or the other? I wonder if maybe BPD with NPD per say makes them different sexually as opposed to just having BPD. Maybe someone can elaborate on this issue?
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Lydia
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« Reply #76 on: December 09, 2010, 03:01:18 AM »

Lydia, you say "Sometimes I wonder if we don't recognize that we are the passion creators in these relationships.  Yes, the attachment is intense, but could it be that we actually are a bigger part of what makes it powerful and we've assigned that to them."

This is also the result of projection. Before understanding the whole thing, we think we are what we are and feel what we feel because of them. Once we break the mirror and stop thinking we = they, we realize that what we feel belongs to us, only to us. My T told me "break the mirror!". And she was right. It took me time to understand this. It takes time, the grief work takes time, but this time will be well spent only when we really start the grief work, which is accepting the loss.

I agree.  Please say more about the we = they thing. I read another post where you talked about this, but I'm not sure I understand.  Are you saying I've projected my stuff onto him.  You know what scares me?  The more I read and learn about this disorder, the more confused I get about who really had the problem.  The only difference, once it's all shook out, seems to be that he lacked empathy, was impulsive to the point of causing grave problems, couldn't be honest, and could not regulate his emotions, but I used to think abandonment was his issue not mine (not true), that he was insecure (so was I), that he projected (isn't that what you're saying we do?).  I do see where even shred issues were a bigger deal to him and I get that the relationship helped me see mine, but once I started to become aware of how many issues I had, it helped me to forgive him, but has also left me with this idea that I am not quite as healthy as I thought I was.  

Lydia, I’ll tell you my experience. I’m not a psychologist, each one of us is different and has different issues and each person diagnosed with BPD is different. What I can do is tell you about me and T and you can think how it sounds to you.

Yes, he projected him onto me and I projected me onto him too. I felt his ancient pain was mine and he felt my ancient pain was his. That’s how the double projection was possible. This is the starting point. Clearly, I didn’t understand this when it happened. And maybe, even if our childhood was different, and his family was a family made of monsters and mine not at that degree, we really share some inner pain, even if I’m not BPD and I didn’t deal with my ancient pain the way he did and does. This also implies like I wrote in another post a symbiotic r/s in which each of us tries to heal the ancient wounds. I was sure I found the ancient needs met and didn't want to lose him because it would mean lose myself – because of the projection. The same with my passions etc. whatever I felt during the r/s. I thought it was possible because of him, because I projected my good onto him. But that’s not true. It’s only projection. I couldn’t leave him for many reasons: because he was also a good object which made me feel soo good, because leaving him would make me feel guilty for not taking care of him – which means not taking care of myself when I was a child. It’s all about projection, and once I understood this I understood so much on the dynamics of the r/s.

A r/s with a dBPD is so dangerous for the projection. I became enmashed, wasn't able to find my real self after I broke off. And it took me a long time to have it back, to "break the mirror" and feel "one" again also without him.

You say “but once I started to become aware of how many issues I had, it helped me to forgive him, but has also left me with this idea that I am not quite as healthy as I thought I was.” Well, maybe, if you think this way, you might have ancient issues that the r/s with a person with BPD awoken you: this is not being healthy or unhealthy, this might mean have some pain hidden somewhere, which I think is very different. BPD is BPD, a severe mental disorder. Never forget this.

This is such a helpful post Smiling (click to insert in post)  Yes, I was told by the first counselor we saw together that our relationship was one of healing.  I didn't get it then, but fast-forward a few years, when my pain was so great and my denial was melting, and we entered therapy again with a different counselor and it all started making sense.  I've been doing EMRD therapy and if you've ever done that you may know that the healing process is sped up a great deal.  That's the up side of it, but the downside is you don't remember everything that happens at a subconscious level.  What I do know is that my ex represented, to me, the dynamics I had as a child with my mother, father, and step-father.  I kept trying to get him to stay in an attempt to heal the ancient wound of being abandoned by my dad, emotionally abused by my mother, and sexually abused by my step-father (who I don't like admitting my ex looked like).  I've been doing the inner child work and have come to know that I wasn't nutured and I've had to learn to reparent and reintegrate that child into my adult self.  I've learned when the 'little girl' in me is reacting to fear and abandonment and I've learned how to comfort her.  Once I finished that work, I was exhausted, or so I thought it was exhaustion.  My therapist told me it was healing.  She said I've completed that task and am now empowered.  I don't feel empowered all of the time, but I certainly don't neglect myself anymore Smiling (click to insert in post) 

Yes, my relationship absolutely brought me to a state of heightened awareness.  I'm grateful for that.  I know I still have a lot to learn, but given the hardest part of moving in a different direction is the initial move and I've made that, I feel much better about progressing to a state of better understanding. 

I'm so happy I don't have to go through those first several months again.  That's part of the reason I'm here now.  I want to try to offer hope to those who are just starting on this journey.  It has been one of the most difficult times of my life and I haven't had a cookie-cutter version Smiling (click to insert in post)  I still have some very bad moments, but I'm forever changed by this experience and, now that I'm on the other side of it a tiny bit, I can see it's benefits.  Just last month I may have been too angry to say that.

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« Reply #77 on: December 09, 2010, 06:16:05 AM »

Excerpt
I wonder if maybe BPD with NPD per say makes them different sexually as opposed to just having BPD.

NPD = Narcissists need to feel appreciated and seek out admirers, but do not let their partners get too close. They are afraid it will dilute their grandiosity. They use partners like show ponies to support their egos and then devalue and discard them when the partner doesn't respond as the narcissist wishes. Consequently, Narcissists consider themselves lone wolves on the prowl, even when they are with someone. They fear emotional intimacy and dont like people to get too close. Kissing and Sex is mechanical much like masturbation with a blow-up doll. Generally the act is choreographed and self serving to the Narcissist. When Borderlines and Narcissists meet in bed, the results are competitive and self serving to each other's needs. Narcissists love Borderlines because Borderlines perform for the Narcissists benefit.

BPD with NPD false front. This is the conundrum for many therapists- as many Borderlines appear to be egotistical at first meeting. They may try to lead people to believe that they are pulled together big time- but upon closer inspection, the Borderline traits appear as needy and clinging. Behaviors do not lie. This person is a Borderline masquerading as a Narcissist. Sex will be used to cling. Narcissists do not cling- they subsume.

Borderline. True Borderline behaviors during sex are masochistic. The disorder comes out in self perpetuating bondage. Sado/masochistic traits are what Borderline is all about. Punishing, punitive, controlling- these functions come out in sex play. The greatest clue to Borderline personality disorder is the need to be punished during sex. Male or Female Borderline- same difference.

Excerpt
Incidentally what does it reveal about ourselves when we define the most satisfying sexual encounter as "porn star quality"---knowing fully well that the entire porn is acting.

We hold a fake performance as the ultimate gold standard of purity.  This is quite immature on our part isn't it?  And yet; we the children;  find the loved ones with BPD as "childlike".

We know that porn is a fairy tale.  It is a made up thing.  And yet, we hold it to be an "ideal".

This is an important statement. The reward behaviors that Borderlines seek for valuation are in the reactions and responses of their partners.  Ever wonder if you show Borderline traits? Ask yourself if you get your valuation from performing in bed. Then ask yourself if you need validation for it afterward. It's as though the Borderline seeks out an appreciative audience but the quality of reward that's received in this manner does not matter so much as quantity. It's compulsive. The sex act might be over, but not the talk.  In a way, this is not a desire for sex- it is a need, but the neediness is much like a compulsive problem with prostitution as the answer.

Prostituting themselves makes them feel bad- they want to be punished and shamed because that's the part time self that lives in their mind, so they return to compulsively try to fix the shame by doing it better and better, i.e, porn star style. It's never enough to feel better about themselves, to stop the neediness, and being treated like a prostitute only makes them eventually angry- so the Borderline avoids closure by moving on and seeking reward elsewhere. Borderlines continue to walk the streets of life searching for new opportunities to offer themselves up for protection and punishment.  Remember, Borderline has two part time selves, good and bad. If good and bad arouse you- then we are talking S&M. A Borderline will expect it and submit to it for your approval.

Many people hold out sex as the one activity where they could be themselves with the Borderline, but the reality of this is more sinister- you see, sex was where both of you held your reward systems intact in fantasy. Porn star sex can last 4 hours, but unfortunately, that leaves the reality of another 20 hours left in the day to cause anxiety.

The Borderline pendulum swings away from you when you stop having sex. Do you see how this can be a problem? And if sex is used so successfully by the Borderline to attach to people- then certainly you're in trouble when your partner's perception of you is that you've withdrawn and have now moved away- (even if its just to the corner store for milk.)  Borderlines are like empty buckets with holes in the bottom- you fill them up and nothing keeps. Everything drains out and the bucket needs filling again. They are aware of this neediness and punish themselves (self-harm = cutting, drinking, piercing, pinching, plucking, shopping, anxiety, insomnia etc.)- but most prefer that you work out their punishment in bed. That way they can get both reward and punishment at the same time.  And yes, it's sad- especially if you thought it was manageable.

Eventually you'll come to see that your own desires and needs were projected upon the Borderline and you'll find out what that projection was when you look back and see where the valuation begins. Did you want a submissive, or maybe a sex slave? Follow the reward. Then ask yourself why you thought that this person you projected upon would feel anything but punished and used for sex. Much like a prostitute.  It's a disorder. It's not going away unless they stop compulsively doing the reward valuations. Unless they can replace it with something else, sex will be a huge motivator, especially for the partner.  When you are disengaging from this dysfunctional dance- it's important to un-romanticize the sex and call it for what it was- manipulated fantasy Idea

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« Reply #78 on: December 09, 2010, 07:48:13 AM »

For me, we had incredible porn star sex also. I've never experienced anything like it. It was really exciting: anything went; it was wild and abandoned. No inhibitions; she knew instinctively what I liked, and she was really responsive and orgasmic: incredible. That was pre-kids. As soon as the kids came along, she was unable to reach orgasm, and has never been able to since, in seven years. We pretty much stopped having sex.

She went to the doc after some pressure from me, who told her he couldn't see anything amiss down there. He referred her to a gynecologist. Who said he couldn't find anything wrong. Six months later, she went to get a second opinion from another gynecologist. And guess what? He said there was nothing physically wrong either. Then, we found the top gynecologist specializing in sexual health. And he also said "there's nothing wrong with you". He actually prescribed viagra for her. Which she "lost" before she had a chance to try it. Anyway, she now avoids sex completely except when she thinks I'm ready to walk. So it's become a simple tool of manipulation.
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