8) Belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder

[seeking balance]

Hello Leaving Board!

Article 9  Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder on the website has helped me heal, stay NC and accept BPD more than any other thing that I read (trust me, there has been a lot).  

We are getting closer to all 10 - thank you for those who have shared thus far.  

8) Belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder  [Read original text here]

"We often think that by holding back or depriving our “BPD” partner of “our love” – that they will “see the light”. We base this on all the times our partner expressed how special we were and how incredible the relationship was.

Absence may makes the heart grow fonder when a relationship is healthy – but this is often not the case when the relationship is breaking down.

People with BPD traits often have object permanence issues – “out of sight is out of mind”. They may feel, after two weeks of separation, the same way you would feel after six.
<br/>:)istancing can also trigger all kinds of abandonment and trust issues for the “BPD” partner (as described in #4).

Absence generally makes the heart grow colder."

For me, the separation allowed me some clarity and in that clarity, I was able to recharge my batteries.  Being married, I did not think it an option to leave, so that was not my focus during our separations.

I travel a lot with work and I can look back and see how so much of the acting out behaviour was triggered during these times.  I didn't know why, but this false belief really helped me see how my job was a problem in our relationship.


What do you all think of this false belief and how did it apply to your relationship?



More information

Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder

1) Belief that this person holds the key to your happiness

2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel

3) Belief that the relationship problems are caused by you or some circumstance

4) Belief that love can prevail

5) Belief that things will return to "the way they used to be"

6) Clinging to the words that were said

7) Belief that if you say it louder you will be heard

8) Belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder

9) Belief that you need to stay to help them.

10) Belief that they have seen the light

[SunflowerFields]

Honestly, when I first read that, months ago, it made me feel terribly sad and depressed.

Not sure if it had much of an impact to my detachment process, other than knowing that I'm sure ex has moved on by now.

[Jaybird]

This was true in my case.  The detachment my stbx seemed to feel early into our divorce process was hard for me.  I as hurting terribly and he was getting on with his life as if our 31 years of marriage meant nothing to him.  Stbxh seemed pretty pleased with himself that he was over me and feeling good about life even though his T warned him that the emotions would come later. 

I was used to my H chasing me and wanting to spend all his time with me (can you say enmeshment  ).  To see him do an about face was unexpected and hurtful.  Secretly I thought his fear of abandonment would keep him from seriously considering divorce.

So absolutely, absence made his heart grow colder.  I deal with it by attributing this to his mental illness and not taking it personally.

[openminder]

I've come to the realization that striking a balance between detaching and giving love and validation is the way to go, even if distance is required.

Most abandonment issues come from (very) early childhood. So image that you, as a distancing partner, is in fact seen as playing the role of the distancing parent by the pwBPD. A loving parent would probably call the child every day, perhaps more often en offer loving and comforting words.

The child wants validation, comfort and security in love. So does the pwBPD.

If you are truly

not taking it personally

and can detach in that way, offering love and validation freely (without consideration of the reaction) is the way to go.

Like AlexDP mentioned, considering their rebound in thinking, it is too simple to consider this 'out-of-sight is out-of-mind'. It is more a defense mechanism for survival.

Out-of-sight is forcing them to search for comfort and love elsewhere and you are banished as an unloving parent. Not forgotten, but isolated/dissociated from their feelings, because of the sheer pain the separation and denial of love and validation causes.

Playing the push/pull game is something they may do, but if you play along thinking the game is like 'normal' people play, you are mistaken. The push/pull is a boundary test of your love for them.

"Are you still there and do you still love me even if I push you away?"

At least, that's my take on this... .

[sea5045]

As you all know, mine moved to Chicago for a job and began acting out alot of this long distance.

However, the year before bc she wasn't working, I was anxious and began working a second job, my regular job, and went to school a couple of times per week. I believe this all was perceived as abandonment, also some jealousy bc she could not find a job, in July she was calling me her cheerleader when I drove with her to an interview, by January I was a persecutor. 

I found this website and I too thought once she got a job things would settle down and maybe we could find a way, but then I saw this myth and thank goodness. She has moved on as well and completely focused on getting her needs met, anyway, my heart has grown colder as well. So the long distance works well for me.

[Crystal Ball]

I think #8 is correct immediately after a break up, but that anything can trigger them to change.  I broke up with my uBPDxbf which certainly put me in the black.  Seven months of very LC, he contacts my best friend out of desparation to find out how the kids and I are doing ~ practically begging her to tell him if we were OK.  She didn't respond, so he texted me.  When I didn't respond he had his best friend text me. I kept NC, but what caused the sudden interest in my well-being I'll never know.  Why he painted me from black to white (I guess) when we are not even communicating is a mystery.  I think this scenero happens often and is why us nons will get contacted months or even years down the road.  I don't believe it's our 'absence' that makes them fond of us or not, it's something in their life that triggers them to react and change their mind from one stance to another that really doesn't have anything to do with 'us'.

[sea5045]

I think #8 is correct immediately after a break up, but that anything can trigger them to change.  I broke up with my uBPDxbf which certainly put me in the black.  Seven months of very LC, he contacts my best friend out of desparation to find out how the kids and I are doing ~ practically begging her to tell him if we were OK.  She didn't respond, so he texted me.  When I didn't respond he had his best friend text me. I kept NC, but what caused the sudden interest in my well-being I'll never know.  Why he painted me from black to white (I guess) when we are not even communicating is a mystery.  I think this scenero happens often and is why us nons will get contacted months or even years down the road.  I don't believe it's our 'absence' that makes them fond of us or not, it's something in their life that triggers them to react and change their mind from one stance to another that really doesn't have anything to do with 'us'.

So that's exactly what happened to me, I got text and my friend got text with Are you and your family ok? at 4:30 AM, I figured it was some weird reaction to having been here the weekend before and not seeing me, or contacting me... .turns out it was guilt visiting my family friend. 

[whitedoe]

Hello Leaving Board!

We are getting closer to all 10 - thank you for those who have shared thus far. 

The single piece of information that helped me understand my part of this rollercoaster ride is this article.

Article 9 - https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm

8) Belief that absence makes the heart grow fonder

We often think that by holding back or depriving our BPD partner of “our love” - that they will “see the light”. We base this on all the times our partner expressed a fear that we would leave and how they needed us.

During an actual break-up it is different. Distancing triggers all kinds of abandonment and trust issues for the BPD partner (as described in #4).

People with BPD also have real object constancy issues - “out of sight is out of mind”. They may feel, after two weeks of separation, the same way you would feel after six.

Absence generally makes the heart grow colder.

For me, the separation allowed me some clarity and in that clarity, I was able to recharge my batteries.  Being married, I did not think it an option to leave, so that was not my focus during our separations.

I travel a lot with work and I can look back and see how so much of the acting out behaviour was triggered during these times.  I didn't know why, but this false belief really helped me see how my job was a problem in our relationship.

What do you all think of this false belief and how did it apply to your relationship?

I also travel a good bit and only regret not even knowing about BPD much less that my exbf suffered from this mental illness. I used to tell him that I thought he "derailed" and "forgot about us" when we were apart for periods of time... .Aghh... .How was to know that he was literally "forgetting" me, our love for each other during my trips overseas? When we were together physically, he was wonderful, loving as if I we were never apart... .but when I was away, he always "distanced himself" as time passed on and we were away from each ... .This baffled me as I missed him terribly and couldn't wait to see him again? It just didn't make any sense to me... .until I came to know about BPD?

This #8 is horrifically painful for me to accept... .It also "confuses me" as I am not sure what is even "normal' anymore? Is it normal to "dump" someone out of nowhere and "forget" the love, all the time spent, the dreams for future, etc... ? Is it "normal" for the heart to "grow colder" like this with nonBPDs? In other relationship breakups (it's been a long time now, but?) I never remember being treated as "out of sight, out of mind"... .It was sad and took some time to get over but... .but, I sincerely don't ever remember hurting as deeply as I do now and feeling so utterly confused... .I guess I'm completed lost and "all over the place" with all of this BPD stuff... .I'm trying to accept this, however, I truly am... .Thank you very much for this post. I needed to remember this... .

[m772001]

"People with BPD also have real object constancy issues - “out of sight is out of mind”. They may feel, after two weeks of separation, the same way you would feel after six.

Absence generally makes the heart grow colder."

Mine is still stalking me and has been since Jan, honestly I dont see it stoping. 40, broke, 5 kids by four dads and knows I bought a ring last christmas before things blew up? I'm in a pickle here... .

[once removed]

i'll second or ninth the notion that the object constancy issues definitely exist, but weirdly vary.

my ex had perceived that i'd abandoned her, and i hardly saw her over the next two months. meanwhile she was installing my replacement. somewhere in the middle of it i'd gotten us concert tickets, and we spent two long weekends in a row together and had a great time and no fighting. she was talking in a text about what a "privilege" it was (she wasn't being sarcastic) to see so much of me. this sounded odd at the time. sure we hadn't seen that much of each other lately, but this seemed pretty normal to me. i didn't notice anything at the time, but i suspect if i went back in time as a fly on the wall, things might have seemed "different". i think i remember her thinking something was up with me or wrong with me when i first arrived. she told me when i left she felt she had fallen even more in love with me. i think she was "remembering" me. after this i repeatedly had to decline spending time with her. then she got sick. then she turned very, very distant. then we had a fight, and the "break up" conversation.

what's ironic about this "false belief" is that this was one of the repeating themes that actually ran through my head during our relationship. it's something i thought in my own mind. it's something i told her when she couldn't seem to understand the concept of us having some solitude and alone time rather than staying cooped up for 4 or 5 days. it was a concept i think she understood in general. but not with me. she always interpreted it as "i needed to get away from her". i did "break up with her" all of those times, not consciously, but at least partially in an effort to make her finally truly see and understand the damage she would do in her rages or episodes. never seeming to mean it doesn't exactly teach learned behavior.

immediate absence, i think, tends to make their hearts grow the fondest. we'd spend 5 days together, and might be at each other's throats, we might have fought constantly. but she had the hardest time tearing herself away, leaving on her own, or letting me leave. i always felt badly doing so. we'd always try to arrange for a friend to come over when i was leaving. i recall one time that just broke my heart. i was working tough hours (for me, because they were early, and im always up late) so i wasn't spending the night. i'd stay with her until she fell asleep then i'd drive home. one of the first nights we tried that, she fell asleep while i was having a cigarette, so i left. she woke up. didn't realize i'd left. looked around her apartment for me expecting/hoping to find me. realized i was gone. i didn't have my cell phone on me so she couldn't call or text me. this made her cry. still makes me sad to think that anyone would feel that way.

lets see. i actually had a specific memory today that i think has to do with the object constancy... .or atleast going from black to white. she was always really into my drumming. we had one of our first fights real real early on. she was raging. when she snapped out of it and we were making up she said in a cutesy way/voice "i forgot you play the drums!" and she told me (half seriously) that if she ever gets mad or pissed off at me just remind her that i play the drums. i think this was an illustration of "remembering" me. she didn't literally forget i played the drums. it was "its like i forgot how i actually feel about you and i remember again!" or atleast that's how i see it.

but having her invade my privacy and get into my email account for over two months after our breakup, and nearly three months of not having seen her, WHILE she's with the new guy contradicts those object constancy issues. so does all of the stalking members here describe, and all of the reengaging, some of it really long term. surely they don't seem to forget us.

[LightAtTheEndOfTheTunnel]

What do i think of this? - Devastated...

having a conversation at work today and the new girl asked me if i was in a relationship... automatically i say yes... *catch myself* and explain how we are apart at the moment etc.

Not wanting to discuss my personal business at work i try and change the subject... she comes out with " Absence makes the heart grow fonder and how she thinks the space would make him miss me more"

Cue her telling me about her husband who ironically has the same name as BPD... and outlining there seemingly healthy relationship. Me and her are the same age... .i look at my life... and hers... very similar... except for having a healthy partner.

In normal settings... .maybe... but we are dealing with BPD here... .as i walked for lunch... i got very emotional about this thought... Absence makes the heart grow colder?... .but how? after 2 years?

Ticking on to 5pm here in the UK... and for once... im dreading the weekend  :'(

[Marcie]

This myth kept me stuck in the relationship a lot longer than I wish I would have. I so wish I would have found this site 2 years in like you Lightattheendofthetunnel.

I would break up with him and not talk to him and a few weeks or months later he would call me and I would think that he finally go it. I would think that my absence finally made him see what he was missing out on.

[LightAtTheEndOfTheTunnel]

This myth kept me stuck in the relationship a lot longer than I wish I would have. I so wish I would have found this site 2 years in like you Lightattheendofthetunnel.

I would break up with him and not talk to him and a few weeks or months later he would call me and I would think that he finally go it. I would think that my absence finally made him see what he was missing out on.

You know a part of me Marcie still wishes he would miss me and come to his senses

[waiflovehurts]

This devastates me too.  Before I realized she was BPD waif I told her if she is already falling in love a week after professing her love to me then her love wasn't deep.  She said she is with someone new but still hurting but I don't believe her.  I've gone NC and just one text in 7 days (we used to text every day).  So I think she only thinks of me when her new girlfriend isn't filling her up to the top with attention.  After we broke up she begged me to come and see her and reconnect.  I wonder if she thought she'd fade from my mind if I didn't see her?  To think that she is not missing me is excruciating.  And makes me feel like the earth is moving under my feet - I feel so shaken up, like it makes me question what I thought was real... .

[newworld]

"Object constancy" is a developmental milestone in every human brain. It means that it is difficult for someone who has not reached this milestone to understand that certain things remain "constant" - the sun always rises, breakfast is always at 7, the people around them love them just like they did yesterday,etc.

If someone doesn't reach this milestone how is this related to, or "confirmation" that pwBPD "can not see humanity" in others?

babies know their mothers are human, but they don't know that mommy isn't REALLY magically gone during peek a boo. That's why peek a boo is FUN!... .until it isn't.  It's a game of object constancy.

Or is it a marker of a disease known for it's stunted developmental milestones?


-------------------------

I used to move on with my life during the weeks long bouts of silent treatment and ignoring... .and I noticed too that the longer we were apart, the more he "forgot" who I was to him. The more he could "split me black", and my being away ratcheted up the trust issues multiplefold - even thought he was the one who would "start it" and not be around me, only to return with accuastions.

After a lot of thinking about it, I realized that I used to stay around him becsaue if I didn't, things would worsen. I was "trying to control the sitution" by being around him and good to him - like that could prevent "the absence". That's just plan unhelpful.

All of that absence put oceans between us - and that might be a good thing- it definately is right now.

[once removed]

from everything i gather, borderlines can't seem to sustain feelings of just about any kind. they can't sustain happiness, they can't sustain seem to sustain love, they can't seem to sustain relationships, they can't sustain feelings of security/safety. they can't sustain an identity. on the other hand, they often can't sustain the black they paint us with.

i have a few experiences of my own, and some of the things i've read here gave me some mental pictures.

i can't recall when exactly it was, but it was fairly early on in our relationship when my ex was speaking about her first ex. she was speaking very plainly about her bad behavior and the terrible ways she treated him. she said she honestly couldn't figure out why/how he even liked her. a couple of months ago, i read something laowho posted about written by gunderson about the 3 levels of emotion in a borderline, and it spoke of the moments of clarity they have when they're forming new attachments. it said essentially they can look back and see their role, in more words. i believe that is what she was doing. our attachment was new. i can also recall around this time what i suspect was a MAJOR fib. her first boyfriend played the keys. she pulled out this cd, and put it in, claiming that this recording was in fact her, in a moment of prodigious virtuosity, playing as if possessed. i KNEW that was bs as soon as i heard it. i also play keys, and i've seen her at a keyboard. what she told was a whopper. i forget how i put it all together, but im 99% positive that it was a recording of her boyfriend, very likely made to soothe her at night when she tends to get all lonely/clingy. this is a weird thing to do, i think. but i'll bet lots and lots of borderlines engage in this behavior. i think many of them try to "remember" us because of these object constancy issues. in some ways i think that constitutes "missing".

so i think they have moments of clarity, so to speak. and maybe not even REAL full clarity. but insight into themselves, at least. most of these people have some of that, some more than others. i think plenty of them have moments where they "miss" us, however you want to define that word. long for us in some way. another member once posted about believing that at some point the borderline may be inundated by feelings for, or about us, that have been repressed. the pain resurfacing so to speak. i can really picture that in the case of my recent ex. i think there's a whole lot going on there. i suspect they may have some of the same kinds of dreams we have at some point. whether they try to not to think of us or not, or whether they succeed or not, i don't think they typically "forget us" by any means. think how many reengage, or even stalk. all kinds of things can trigger fond memories they have of us that could cause them to want to connect with us at any time.

but the point that im trying to get to, is that even these moments of clarity aren't sustainable. missing us isn't sustainable. feelings of and for of us aren't sustainable. your ex may well have "come to his senses and missed you" and he may have done it 1000 times. but if so, what has he done about it? it's my general answer to whether or not borderlines love us, or how they love us. sure, maybe they do, maybe they don't, but what is apparent to me is that they can't sustain it.

[once removed]

i read some stories on here recently in a thread about the subject. several stories about BPD partners borrowing articles of clothing when they were going to be separated from their partner for a period of time, and sleeping with them. one even broke up with their partner when the shirt lost its smell. i think that's what my ex was doing with all the stuffed animals i gave her, wearing the clothes i'd leave over, watching my shows when i wasn't there, that kinda thing. i do not think it literally means they FORGET us, or anything, but rather that they have difficulty really conjuring us up. im damn near quoting, and i forget who, but essentially the idea is when normal people are lonely, they can conjure up images and feelings of loved ones and get some warmth from that, so to speak, and remember that they are loved. borderlines can't do this. i don't know if they try and fail, or if they just can't. i think they try and fail, and this frightens them. this, i think, also explains the stories i've read on here about BPDs saying they felt like they should feel bad, or wanting to cry, but feeling nothing, after a break up. i don't think it's every case, and i don't think it's permanent, but i suspect it's a phase most experience. it is also, in my opinion, one of the primary things that causes them to reengage.

do you know anybody you see often, or used to see a lot of, but have trouble picturing their face, for example? i think it's a lot like this, but to a more profound degree. it doesn't mean they forget us.

the absence makes the heart grow fonder/colder thing works both ways. absence absolutely made my exes heart grow fonder, WAY too fond. the second i was gone, the i miss yous started. however, toward the end, when she was lining up the new guy, we'd been "absent" a while. then saw quite a bit of each other for about 2 weeks straight, and she told me she was falling in love with me all over again. then we were snowed in and i didn't see her for another month or so. at first the absence made her heart fond. then it made it cold. then it's like i was completely out of mind. then she became very, very distant, and then the whole thing blew up. again, it works both ways. borderlines are desperate for the attachment to us when separated. but if separated for too long, i suspect, they MUST cling to a new attachment.

Does this mean the forget about us as easy as losing sight of a toy? in some cases, maybe. like if you date a borderline in high school, and they go through lots of relationships, then sure. i do think every case varies. some were more significant to their borderlines than others. you're onto something with the toy analogy. a young child does get distracted and runs to a new toy. sometimes the toy lasts a while. sometimes it's tossed aside quickly. a child may come back to a toy. a child has it's favorite toys. some endure, some do not. some a child keeps coming back to again and again. some a child remembers or even keeps around all of their life. so yeah, i think honestly most of them can experience that at least temporarily. significance of the toy plays a role though. and they don't build em like they build me  

Does the mean they don't hurt when we end the relationship? no. not at all. but that doesn't mean they can't find something to temporarily soothe the pain, or dissociate from the pain.

Does this mean they don't miss people? i think they "long" for people, for one reason or another. you might call it missing. my ex told people (all of her attachments) "i miss you" ALL the damn time. in fact it was down right her thing. i guess going back to the toy analogy, does a child "miss" a toy? it certainly longs for it. it recalls fond memories with it. something brings that urge to reconnect with the toy again.

WTH are they feeling if anything after a break up? this completely depends on the person and the circumstances, and whatever given moment one would gauge what they're feeling. it can range from a profound nothing to "a lot". add in a dash of core trauma though to whatever they're feeling or not feeling.

Does this mean that they don't pine over memories? the one thing i wonder and don't know the answer to is how they associate with inanimate objects that remind them of us. they have memories. "pine" over them i think depends again on the person, and how you define it. they can have memories and feelings and long for the memory though, i think.

it's complicated, and honestly it's easier for me to put into words than it is to understand it. i don't lack object constancy, so i can't really know what its like or what it means to not "recall" someone, if they don't forget us, and if they have memories of us.

[Zena321]

I wonder this mine walked on me but we talked on the phone every night for hours and saw each other every weekend for 2 and a half years  then he said lets no talk on the phone or see each other a couple weeks I want to see if I miss you . Wel he said he didn't it was like WHATTTTT and thats when it was officially done he moved on and I was totally devasted and left again for good ... .And my replacement was found a few months later like I never existed.Ater 8 years.

So their hearts seem to grow cold very very easily he always claimed he couldn't put himself in my shoes when I asked him to at least try somewhat... .Not an ounce of empathy...

[gettingoverit]

I am convinced that my ex does not think about or miss me in the least. Why would she? I was the reason why she was so unhappy and miserable right? I was the one that emotionally abused her and psychologically scarred her right? Why would you miss someone like that? Lets not forget that when these vipers split with us, they paint us black, tell horrible lies about us to gain sympathy (because we can not forget they are ALWAYS the victim), and more often than not have someone new in their beds before the dust settles.

My ex broke up with me and days later was screwing the neighbor. The reason why absence makes the heart grow colder is because they have moved on to someone new. You mean nothing to them anymore, you have served your purpose, you are past your expiry date, in the garbage you go along with the rest of the trash. In order to miss someone you actually have to have feelings that go beyond yourself. Have you ever noticed that BPD's are so self absorbed? It is all about how they FEEL all the time. What your feelings or needs are, are not as important as their needs and feelings. It will always be that way. Finally we have to remember these people are mentally ill (I prefer evil, but I digress), they don't think like normal people, they don't feel like normal people, they definitely don't see the world like normal people, and unlike normal people have no capacity to love beyond what they can ultimately get out of it. Out of sight, out of mind. That is how it works with these wretches for human beings. I would have more sympathy if they would be willing to seek help, but as this support group proves, most of them don't and we as the TRUE victims have to deal with the fall out and destruction they have left in our lives. They all can go to hell.

[momof5lovlies]

It is heartbreaking realizing this especially when you had hoped that they would remember how good you were to them and want to come back. However, I know it is a gift that they don't but it is hurtful. I wonder do you think they forget their children as time goes by? Mine loved his son but since he has left calls less and has not made one attempt to see him in 10 weeks. This was his son that he said was his life. Any thoughts?

[harlemgurl]

Lucky Strikes,

I don't know where I'd be without your responses.    

You really have a way of bringing the humanity back into the equation. Because of our anger, hurt, and pain there's always the temptation to think of our ex's in black/white absolute terms as they do us. When I'm really piping hot angry I want to believe that my ex is nothing but an animal, trash, a lower form of life and a total waste of space. When I'm this angry I don't want to stay there. But quite honestly reading article 8 (object constancy? REALLY? ) sent me reeling into an emotional tailspin. The implications of it all suggest that the experiences I shared with my ex weren't real. (Out of sight out of mind? Really?) When this "idea" hits it feels as if an entire brick wall has been thrown at me.

Your post responses help me to remember that only WE truly know how we've experienced our ex's. And how each of us has experienced our ex's varies. Yes they may not mourn us the way we do them but I'll be damn if my ex doesn't think about me. And I'll be even more damned if my ex doesn't have regrets about how our relationship ended.

I've read testimonies of people who suffer from BPD who say they miss their ex's even when they're the ones that did the breaking up. Yes. This give me shallow validation; but I think its ok to want to experience some kind of respite/lifeline/example to create meaning out/ of this crazy jigsaw puzzle.

Ultimately. When the r/s is over; its over and the five stages of grief must be experienced in order for us to grow from this ordeal. But for me articles like this keep me stuck in the grieving process longer because they read in an entirely black and white way. I just find it hard to believe that people who suffer from BPD don't FEEL feelings of loss. And I find it even more difficult to accept that being painted black means you're forever in their emotional dungeon. Somewhere in there the truth lies dormant but eventually the dragon of truth needs to breath fire.

I don't care how many lies they tell themselves. Absence may make the heart grow colder; but the truth always needs an opportunity to be released.

[once removed]

im with you harlemgurl. when i came here, i read a lot of things that i was so certain weren't true, or disagreed with, or seemed so painful.

i've learned what i've learned since then. some of those things either weren't true, or were at least debateable. some were more true than i realized.

i think when you're hit with those tail spins, it's because you're onto something. part of you wants to scream out "NO! THAT CAN'T BE TRUE!" well, maybe it isn't. since they are all human, and each is different, and we all experienced different circumstances, a LOT of the advice/information you receive is either general, or not may not be applicable to you.

i guess when it comes to learning about this disorder, it helps so much having dealt with borderlines before. it's much easier for me to have a mental picture, and to decide what's applicable. what you mentioned, i want to stress. if you get this disorder at ALL (and i believe you do) then you can usually answer your own questions the best.

it's like i mentioned before. were elements of your relationship "not real"? perhaps. depends on how you look at it and how you define it, i think. on one hand, im not one who thinks i was "duped" by my ex or that i was suffering any delusions or illusions. i knew she was "crazy" and BPD, even though i didn't know it by name, was a devil i knew very well. i would still make the claim that i was closer to her, and knew her better than anyone in her life, and that that was very real. on the other hand, i radically accept that there was clearly a huge part to her that i did not know at all. this is someone i was beyond certain couldn't leave me, and didn't have a cheating bone anywhere in their body. i was left, and i have more than suspicion that there was cheating, perhaps quite a bit. this is a side i clearly was oblivious to. her ability and ultimate willingness to hurt me, i was oblivious to. during, i loved her for her loyalty. i thought this was a person perhaps even more loyal than i. well, i have to accept, to some extent, that was an illusion. basically, im illustrating that it's not black and white. and so neither is it especially painful, if radically accepted, at least for me. there are things about my relationship i've determined for lack of a better word "weren't real". to which i basically respond "well, i thought i had great judgment before. clearly i have more to learn." but i will not let anyone tell me i was living a lie, or that i didn't know my ex, or that our bond "didn't really exist." i know better. i was there. i lived it, and no one can tell me i'm naive to it. it was the most powerful connection i've ever had. yes, i accept that there were elements of mirroring involved in that. i look at it like a body. i cut off what was rotted, or "not real" in my mind, and there's plenty of body left... .what it's worth and what it looks like are questionable. but it's like i mentioned. in all of the bonding, all the intimate details shared, and experiences shared, what about that "wasn't real"? (actually, that's poorly phrased, and could be answered to. i hope you know what i mean.)

i do NOT think "out of sight out of mind" goes so far as to suggest that every time you were out of his sight it was like you didn't exist. im sure quite the contrary, and im sure most members would attest to that. that's usually when BPD is neediest. "out of sight out of mind" is one of those things you kind of have to take and apply to yourself and your situation. for me, like i said, i think it applied while she was lining up the new guy, and occurred (but was interrupted with obsessive behavior directed at me) for as long as she could keep it up after our relationship ended. it would KILL me to accept "out of sight out of mind" in black and white terms. but like i said, my ex demonstrated that even though it appeared to be the case, it clearly wasn't. her actions toward me weren't anything healthy or anything positive, but it showed me that to believe she wasn't thinking about me at all or had forgotten me WAS an illusion. i read that in terms of moving on, something like 2-4 weeks out can be like 6-8 for them, or something like that. well sure. but you have hundreds of examples of the ones that stick around for years. there are a lot of stories on here, unfortunately, that i think the most painful aspects probably apply to. being under illusions. the relationship having essentially not been "real" (or less of it having been). not really ever knowing who their BPD partner was. and being discarded, forgotten, and never really thought of again. but these really appear to be the shorter term relationships where the person just has absolutely no grasp of what they've been through. like i said, i think you're smart enough to know for yourself. i think "out of sight out of mind" can also apply to things like cheating behavior. in other words, if you're out of sight, they need something to cling to. they're able to put you out of mind, beCAUSE you are out of sight, and engage in cheating or something of the like, not without experiencing shame, but perhaps without really feeling it. or they can convince themselves you deserve it. all sorts of things.

it is okay to want to do all of those various slashes out of the crazy jigsaw puzzle, or at least schwing told me so the analogy he gave me is that it's like a movie like the sixth sense. you see all the red flags but you miss them. then BOOM the big ending and you're kinda like "what just happened?" so you rewatch it to make sense of it all, and you see the red flags. and then maybe you rewatch it 20 times, because you've just GOT to make sense of it. i can't count how many times i did that. i still do to some extent. sure there comes a point when it's unhealthy obsession, that you should focus on you, etc, but your mind needs to process and make sense of it all first. you can take as long as you need, and as im sure you've experienced, it wont all come at once. but it is healthy. i just loved that analogy and that validation. again, i assume the reason you hit a tailspin is because you were hearing something that your mind wanted to scream wasn't true. and i think whenever that's the case, it's because it may not be entirely, or may not be true to you. you know better. there are hard truths, and then there are... .well, "not necessarily truths". we react violently to those. it's like if someone tells me there is no god. that's threatening and contrary to everything i know.

i get why this keeps you stuck, but i don't think it should. honestly, anything i've learned about borderline, has not been especially painful for me, if anything it gives me a much better mental picture, and it doesn't tend to challenge any of my core beliefs. i like the articles because they help with that mental picture, but again, it's about taking whats applicable, coming from a very generalized article, and applying it to you. first of all, there is ALWAYS a less painful way to spin and see things, ways to change troubling thoughts that get you stuck. those things are good to practice. that's why i say "i don't think it should", not because there's something wrong with you. because it's not reality. because either you're being threatened by black and white thinking, or seeing something more painfully than it need be seen.

i wouldn't be caught dead saying borderlines don't feel feelings of loss. way, way too much evidence to the contrary. is it true for some of them, in some cases? sure, maybe. i mean again, we ALL had different relationships. some of them WERE more significant than others. there are people who meant very little to their borderline. i don't think that's the case for most people here, or we wouldn't be here. i was with (and beyond there for) my ex when her grandfather passed. that's not suddenly vanished in her mind, whether she's painted me black or not. that fact does not lose significance to her. she's not going to forget it. again, they are human beings. i've seen nothing that suggests that black paint lasts forever. they paint us both back and forth during the relationship. they can do the same after. and from most of what i've read, black usually wipes off over time. i've seen one case of a more witchy type who yeah, tried to make her ex husbands life a living hell for about two decades. it all depends.

people with BPD have magnificent defense and coping mechanisms, but they still have psyches and they still have pain. you're very right about the dragon of truth, and i believe that fire does breathe. pain surfaces for them in all sorts of ways, whether it's immediate, soon, or takes years.

i do frankly envy your anger though, harlemgurl. not because i want to be an angry person, or risk getting stuck in it, but it has truly been lacking in my process, and it troubles me, because i for the life of me can't figure out why. righteous anger should be felt, and mine is suspiciously MIA.

[Marcie]

I was getting hung up on this, this weekend thinking that, he was probably thinking about me because I was thinking of him

[sea5045]

When I have those moments when she seems so important or like it was just yesterday and I miss her, I kind of feel like Forrest Gump, waiting for his Jenaaaa. Will I always long for her and possibly take her in when ever she walks back in no matter what she does or who she is with? I think about Forrest who never judged her or thought ill of her, I am not there yet, but when I am focused on the mental illness of it I can see that light at the end of the tunnel.

[Zena321]

Sea,

     what an analogy of "Forrest waiting for his Jenna " that was my fantasy so to speak for so long before I knew anything about PD's. That he would see all the hurt and pain inflicted on me over the years. Thats all I wanted was a truly deep heartfelt apology and a sincere " I really do Love you and miss you will you give me another chance" and that was "my fantasy".

I cried every night in the wee hours of the morning,prayed,bargained,dreamed,name it I researched it all the wrong places ,how I wish I researched Personality disorders first it would have saved me over 5 years of anguish,depression,self blame,self hate,guilt,what if's,wasted time you name it .

Over 5 years I am still married and seperated from him and he has been with someone else almost 3 of them.  I thought he would realize the grass was the same not greener or was going through a midlife crisis whatever, what a fool I have been.

"My Fantasy" dashed a few months before finding out about BPD this year in March .

We met to split tax return money got to discussing our relationship demise and I said (as always )I admit to 50% of it .He flat out said "I did nothing wrong" and I commented you won't even say you contributed to 50,40,30 or even 10% and he still firmly stated again "I did nothing wrong at all" .

That was the first time in all these years I actually got mad outwardly to him and said I can't believe you said that after all this time, we argued some and I left.

He then called me about 4 hours later like we hadn't talked in weeks and said "Hi I just wanted to let you know you gave me $20 to much on the tax return and not a word about earlier. I was like in my head ? what is he up to he was so mad before its like old times when we lived together,get raging mad over something for hours and upset me or the kids then forget it the next day and the same thing doesn't effect him the same way twice.

[sea5045]

Sea,

     what an analogy of "Forrest waiting for his Jenna " that was my fantasy so to speak for so long before I knew anything about PD's. That he would see all the hurt and pain inflicted on me over the years. Thats all I wanted was a truly deep heartfelt apology and a sincere " I really do Love you and miss you will you give me another chance" and that was "my fantasy".

He then called me about 4 hours later like we hadn't talked in weeks and said "Hi I just wanted to let you know you gave me $20 to much on the tax return and not a word about earlier. I was like in my head ? what is he up to he was so mad before its like old times when we lived together,get raging mad over something for hours and upset me or the kids then forget it the next day and the same thing doesn't effect him the same way twice.

Wow that is so sad, that's the mentally ill part, they would rather be treated badly by someone who is less smart or beautiful or just be with anyone than anything that has a connection, or expectation, being attached hurts them. Thank God Forrest was MR, because he missed out on all of this pain, and craziness. Sea  I am so glad you found out about PD and hopefully can let go of some of the responsibility and personalizing any of this, he is the same way with whomever he is with now,

[Zena321]

Exactly Sea as you say about Forrest being MR and unaware so not feeling the pain.

Many times in my life I have quoted the saying "ignorance is bliss" sometimes I have wished my intelligence was below normal verses above. Then I wouldn't feel or be aware of some of the cruelty and misgivings that are apparent in this world.

I have to admit my insight and intuition is usually very good but this one got me when least expected.

If it were a friend or relative I would have been the pit bull fighting for them and helping them every which way possible. But myself I was fooled like a poor animal lead to slaughter not knowing. What hurts more is I feel like I should have seen it somehow.I'm not stupid but reading about idealize,devalue and discard makes everything fall in place . It at least gave me my ahhaa moment finally. My quest has started . Let my learning and hopeful healing journy begin.

Now to find some of the scattered pieces of me that has been forever changed and hoping it won't many years .

[Beach_Babe]

The reason why absence makes the heart grow colder is because they have moved on to someone new. You mean nothing to them anymore, you have served your purpose, you are past your expiry date, in the garbage you go along with the rest of the trash.

This was one of THE hardest, but necessary things for me to accept. She does not miss me. Period. I served my purpose.

[ithurts2much]

This one was the most saddening to read. Belief that absence from me would make her see what we had and appreciate it, was my last real hope.

It is useful to know that reconciliation is just not going to happen, yet saddening. Time to move on with life.

[Anra]

To understand a BPD you must see her/him as a child with adult means at her/his disposal. Think about it. A 7 y.o. child with a gun, for example. Unfortunately, she/he is not a normal child. Her/his parents are not an example of comunication and perhaps they dont even tell her/his about what the gun means and what can he/she do with it.

Anyway, a BPD always looks for validation exactly the way as children do, with difference they (BPD) have a lot of means of their disposal, means which normal children do not have, as sexuality, agresivity etc. At some point maybe they look after for unconditional love as we did as children but after we've obtained it from our parents and we've grown up, we just have leave left them and seeking a start for a life as adults. We make a lot of mistakes as adults and sometimes we come back to our parents to be healed, to feel that unconditional love again, to be understood or to be protected as well. After we are healed or helped we just move on again in real life as adults, wich means we leave our parents again for searching a good life as independent persons. BPDs do the same but when they look for a partner they want that partner behaves like a parent, giving them unconditional love. After they feel it, they follow the pattern and leave. In r/s they dont feel love as we do. They love us in a childish way. All children lie and hide. BPDs have also sexuality at their disposal but they simply dont know what to do with it. They use it as a tool, as we've used crying or something when we're children. BPDs dont feel sexual pleasure as we do. For them is like a hug or something like that.

We all miss our parents sometimes and we call them or just visit them. For BPDs there is no such posibility because their natural parents seem to be unavailabe to comunicate unconditional love to them. So, BPDs usualy try to return to the most important persons from their life to obtain that unconditional love. It's like charging batteries. We do it the same when we are young adults. Their affection is always childish.  Think of it: as adults we dont call our parents daily. When we are "on the wave" we just simply forget them sometimes but when we have problems and thoughts we return to them. BPD do the same but they dont understand we are not their parents and we have different lifes. Sometimes they crave for our love to charge their batteries. After that, they simply leave.

Yes, the belief that absence makes the heart grow colder is not true. They always miss their important ex partners as we miss our parents sometimes. My exBPDgf told me  long time after brake-up, crying "please, I have one last request for you. Dont die".