Is this detachment technique or learning technique, checking FB

[Cromwell]

 Many of you probably know my back story by now, to summarise, ive been NC for 8 months now, complete shut off out of the blue, changed all my contact details not had any contact at all, except twice she came to my house and made a small disturbance both times but I didnt react to it.

Its been a hard struggle, especially the first 4 months, then got better, then started to feel a range of repressed emotions, mostly anger, but everything has fizzled out and this week in particular has been a complete feeling of serenity where I finally feel detached.

I want to build on this but trying not to be too over confident so asking for advice.

When I was in my teens I had therapy and one of the suggestions I was given was to face whatever fears I had, as a way to overcome them. For instance, I started to suffer anxiety during the R/S and didnt like being around people or crowds. Slowly I started each day to at first, just go out more, but in uncrowded areas then over weeks I regularly went for walks with a friend in the most busiest places. I think part of the anxiety was worry about meeting my ex again, which happened before. But all that anxiety is gone. This is just one example.

About month 2 in the NC, I reinstalled whattsapp and was so shocked to see my ex still on it, I thought when I uninstalled it before she would be gone, but somehow she was there and I saw her profile picture, I cant describe how nauseated i felt at the time in a sort of fear related way. A bit like someone with a fear of spiders, seeing a picture of a tarantula.

But ive heard just as my therapist said those many years ago, to expose yourself to the fear, and I know that this is used to treat things like fear of flying, spiders etc. slowly work your way up.

im wondering if Its time I should look at my BPDx facebook I feel strong, but I feel unsure about it. I want to fully get strong enough that to accidentaly see her again in the small city i live, that I wont be again so swayed by a mix of fear and strong emotions, i was recycled before due to this happening.

Any suggestions appreciated or is there any other tips for me at this stage. Thank you all

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Cromwell, Your inquiry reminds me of a quote by Joseph Conrad, who wrote, "in the destructive element immerse."  I can see how this type of immersion therapy might help with a fear of spiders, but have doubts about  whether it might prove effective for purposes of detaching from a pwBPD, particularly since you are currently NC.  The question in my mind is: why would you do it unless you were still emotionally attached to this person?

Only you can answer that question and I'm not trying to tell you what to do, so feel free to take with a grain of salt!

LJ

[once removed]

When I was in my teens I had therapy and one of the suggestions I was given was to face whatever fears I had, as a way to overcome them.

theres a lot to this, yes. i think there are two schools of thought, though. i would never suggest someone overload themselves or do too much too soon. and in terms of recovering from a breakup, i would not suggest mentally or physically surrounding yourself with that person. im also not big on testing ourselves for the sake of testing ourselves.

i had a really hard time with peaking at social media for a while. it would send me into a tailspin for hours, no matter what i saw. i wanted to stop. someone suggested to me that maybe i should desensitize by looking a bunch. i dont think, at the time, that would have been good advice for me to take. i finally had enough, stopped, and it was a huge relief. seven years later, i look sometimes. its the emotional equivalent of looking at a middle school girlfriends social media.

at eight months, im guessing seeing her social media would not send you into a tailspin, though it certainly may be triggering.

i dont think looking at her social media one time or one hundred times will necessarily prepare you for running into her, though. thats a very different thing, and our power over our fight or flight response is pretty limited. to me, it wouldnt signify a lack of strength if you saw her and were emotionally flushed.  

[Cromwell]

Hey Cromwell, Your inquiry reminds me of a quote by Joseph Conrad, who wrote, "in the destructive element immerse."  I can see how this type of immersion therapy might help with a fear of spiders, but have doubts about  whether it might prove effective for purposes of detaching from a pwBPD, particularly since you are currently NC.  The question in my mind is: why would you do it unless you were still emotionally attached to this person?

Only you can answer that question and I'm not trying to tell you what to do, so feel free to take with a grain of salt!

LJ

Hi LuckyJim I think "destructive immersion" is part of what the end of my RS was (after being recycled) which then lasted 3 months until I went NC. It made me very uneasy that she had went to the lengths to stalk me in the city, because I had cut everything off, new phone and deactivated social media, I know now that she had people following me (flying monkeys) and they reported back to her, but it took a month until she physically placed herself there in an attempt to reconcile.

So this destructive immersion was partly about confronting the enemy, sleeping with the enemy, but overall; keeping the enemy close to find out what she had been up to. I sort of want to see FB because 8 months on and I have no idea what the situation is, I would never wish someone dead, but if that was the case, at least I know I can forget about ducking and diving. If she is in a R/S, I know that its likely she will be distracted and has given up with the idea of R/S. She wasnt in a R/S during the times she stalked me, which did surprise me, I must have really discarded her at a point where she hadnt found a replacement or backup option.  

There is an emotional connection, and I dont like it, its why Im trying my best to figure out just what I can do to accelerate a complete delinkage, and it was my therapists words back then that came as a clue "to face your fear", it helped me overcome crippling anxiety, I feel confident and normal again. I thought maybe I should try this, but I realise now that its maybe not the right tool for the situation, more for helping people with phobias, as onceremoved said "desensetisation therapy", which is not really transferable for what im trying to achieve. and onceremoved; your experience of checking on your ex's social media confirmed to me my instinct not to, i dont think id tailspin but i imagine it wont bring me happiness at the least, and might set me back a bit in the progress ive made so far, not going to risk that
 
im a bit afraid to get FB again because i will end up getting the dreaded "friend" request. I think I might have been triggered a little by lighthouses post, but thats good, it shows me that there are still small loose threads that need tied up.

 Thanks for the support, I dont know where id be otherwise, was floundering until I joined this board.

[Wicker Man]

Cromwell,

Make certain of your motivation before deciding your course of action. 

Is it truly systematic desensitization or are you subconsciously hoping for contact, even on a passive level?

Wicker Man

PS.  I didn't look today. 

[Sirnut]

My counsellor suggested something to me a while ago that might be similar to this. I think she called it *visualisation*. The idea is to prepare for a stressful situation by deciding beforehand how you want to respond, then practice visualising the situation and your response. Not ruminating or speculating, but just preparation for something that might realistically happen. This then helps you to carry out your plan without panicking if the situation arises.

I’ve only had one occasion to use this so far but it did seem to help me respond less emotionally to an unexpected situation than I otherwise might have done. I’m still using this to try to be ready if/when I bump into her again, which is fairly likely at some point.

I suppose this is a kind of desensitisation strategy.

I wouldn’t put Facebook viewing in the same category, at least for myself. I swore off looking at her FB page about 10 weeks ago because it just fed the obsession. Besides, FB is a highly misleading guide to a person’s state of mind - people mostly just post the good stuff and even if someone is struggling they might make it look like their life is a series of triumphs. I eventually realised it was just demoralising me to keep viewing.

[Cromwell]

During the splitting black part of the R/S, she set up a fake profile and I added it via friends request, the name was "my hero", the picture on the profile was my face but with a knife superimposed carving an exaggerated smile into my face.

I wasnt shocked by this violent imagery, more confused by it, didnt quite get the meaning. or should say, by that point it was just one of hundreds little bits of craziness that I became desensetised to and brushed off, didnt allow it to become ingrained in the psyche.

In Batman the joker tells the story of how his father did the same to him when he was a child, she often referenced herself as the joker. She suffered from that part of the condition where it comes to a wish to disfigure parts of the body in BPD, and she did use to cut but had stopped, instead she would photoshop herself with cuts instead. I didnt understand any of it all, still dont. but about a week after going NC this fake profile changed to a teddy bear with a love heart saying "i love you". Thats when I just deactivated FB. Had enough of the silliness.

I often find it hard to deal with the guilt, because much of what I didnt realise at a conscious level is a lot of her cyptic behaviour I believe now was a "cry for help" and a lot of the songs she sent me, were lyrics that related to this. It wasnt about love, because love is something that cant be attained on her side, but she knew that I loved her and much like Wicker Man said about his ex "you have to leave, I will destroy you", I feel that parallel now quite strongly, reflecting back on it all.

I dont feel guilty about leaving, there is nothing romantic I feel about joining someone on the road to destruction. I guess im just curious what is going on in her life and feeling stronger and more level headed, thought id be brave enough to get some sort of update. but I realise actually, its none of my business, ive got better things to do with my time and just knowing that I controlled this impulse that came out of the blue makes me feel that its unlikely to happen again.

I never thought id find myself as a grown up man, having to get support from a forum because im undecided about whether its safe to load up a website and look at a picture, but that just goes to show me the real underlying impact that happened. The most I ever had to shrug off risidually from relationships was maybe a night in by myself watching movies, crying into a bucket of ice cream. but moving on was easy. Here I feel this strange almost psychic connection that although the emotional intensity of it is mostly gone, she still is a bit like a splinter in the mind that interrupts my day seemingly out of nowhere.

I think it is still trying to make sense of all the craziness. Was she really disturbed and crying for help, or was she just extremely good manipulator to get attention and enjoy being able to play mind games on people. At this point my feelings say, a combination of both.

[Wicker Man]

It wasnt about love, because love is something that cant be attained on her side, but she knew that I loved her and much like Wicker Man said about his ex "you have to leave, I will destroy you", I feel that parallel now quite strongly, reflecting back on it all.

Ok -Here I cannot completely agree. In my experience my ex felt and gave love as well as hate.  She felt both, and they were real to her -there was simply nothing I could do to elicit one or the other.  She appeared to have no control over her emotional state whatsoever.

I dont feel guilty about leaving, there is nothing romantic I feel about joining someone on the road to destruction.

"After determining a swimmer is in trouble they try to help in ways that will not result in a threat to the life of the lifeguard or others."  --Not even lifeguards are supposed to sacrifice their own wellbeing to save someone.

I guess im just curious what is going on in her life and feeling stronger and more level headed, thought id be brave enough to get some sort of update.

cui bono?

1 : a principle that probable responsibility for an act or event lies with one having something to gain  -Who benefits?

My guess is either you miss her or it is self mortification.  I am projecting in this case -for me it can be either or both.

I think it is still trying to make sense of all the craziness. Was she really disturbed and crying for help, or was she just extremely good manipulator to get attention and enjoy being able to play mind games on people.

I believe this was innate behavior and not methodical.  I never saw any intent -my ex wanted to be saved, but also could not stop her destructive behavior.

If feel no animosity toward her.  I miss the dream of her and pity that she will likely live in a world full of torment, fear, loneliness and pain.  This being said
I will repeat  'help in ways that will not result in a threat to the life of the lifeguard'

Wicker Man

[Cromwell]

Wicker Man,

you know, I needed that lifeguard analogy... .got the alarm bells ringing in me.

Im starting to feel quite troubled as a result, but in a good way. Ive realised that an underlying theme of my life has also been an attraction to that which would encourage my own self destruction. It makes sense now the dangerous careers I have chosen, the self sabotage just whenever ive came close to success, and chosing to stay in a R/S like this when I had opportunities with equally beautiful women but no danger or drama attached

You were right, im coming to dislike you more, you are good to from and your word; but it is in the same way that I dislike my alarm clock in the morning for forcing me to wake up. a dislike for waking up to reality.

It feels strange to be starting on a path so late in life, which is about actually feeling a sense of value of my own life, besides being a martyr. I know where it all started from and your post has been one of the most enlightening for me, ive got plenty to chew on and confront today. thanks for this.

[Wicker Man]

You were right, im coming to dislike you more, you are good to from and your word; but it is in the same way that I dislike my alarm clock in the morning for forcing me to wake up. a dislike for waking up to reality.

I take you distain as a compliment of the highest order. --I wouldn't hang out with myself if I had a choice in the matter

Here is what I try to keep in mind when I think about looking... .   

No one you have ever met, not even you own parents, will so innately know precisely which emotional lever to tickle than your ex.  So to look at FB I would liken to Perseus 'just having a quick check up to see what Medusa was up to'... .  It would not have ended up going his way.

The last time I looked mine had made reference to living in the 'upside down' from Stranger things.  It is precise and heart wrenching.  It perfectly describes how I see her world.  I openly wept when I saw it. 


Wicker Man

 -Giving advice is easy -following it is difficult.

[Skip]

The idea of desensitizing yourself and of using mental strength rather than avoidance is sound thinking, Cromwell. Avoidance is a crutch, something we use to help heal. Mental strength and a better understanding of human nature and ourselves is what healing is ultimately about.

Should you be able to look at Facebook or encounter her on the street with her new beau? Yes. You want to get to that place.

How you desensitize yourself is something to be careful with - you want to push out of your comfort zone, but not so far out that you traumatize yourself.

Where are you know? What types of things were upsetting to you that you have already overcome? How did you do that?

[Cromwell]

I take you distain as a compliment of the highest order. --I wouldn't hang out with myself if I had a choice in the matter

Here is what I try to keep in mind when I think about looking... .   

No one you have ever met, not even you own parents, will so innately know precisely which emotional lever to tickle than your ex.  So to look at FB I would liken to Perseus 'just having a quick check up to see what Medusa was up to'... .  It would not have ended up going his way.

The last time I looked mine had made reference to living in the 'upside down' from Stranger things.  It is precise and heart wrenching.  It perfectly describes how I see her world.  I openly wept when I saw it. 


Wicker Man

 -Giving advice is easy -following it is difficult.

Haha, I used to think of her as Medusa, its funny you just say that.

You are of course correct, theres too much chance to be upset, why should I, just for the sake of proving to myself, or possibly it could have been some underlying curiosity.

Im going to let sleeping dogs lie. because its been nice and quiet now for 2 months since her impromptu visit, I think she has all but given up, and dont want to rattle the snake.

[Cromwell]

Hi Skip, the things that upset me were that she had hacked into my phone and laptop to spy on who else I was talking to. In the midst of that she would make fake FB of people I knew and I would be speaking to her thinking I was speaking to them. In addition she cheated and triangulated against me. Later on, she went through all my friends when I discarded her for a month, and blackened my name out of anger. Then to get me back she stalked me, which she later admitted to, and I got recycled back in.

She has stalked all of her exs, its actually stupid when I look back, but the pattern was always the same in her relationships, i was just arrogant to think mines would be any different. it was honeymoon period, idolisation on both sides, followed by finding faults (that ruin the previous idolisation), this allows lack of guilt to go and cheat and sleep elsewhere (but try not to get caught), then she would triangulate with the secret person she had cheated with, but still try to keep the relationship going. Once she got found out cheating she would get discarded, rage and stalk her ex.

throughout the R/S once she got my phone hacked (google location history on GPS) she would start to occassionaly send me cryptic meme style images that sometimes had my face in it but distorted and with captions. my bank accounts and emails and facebook, all hacked and she was accessing when I slept. my phone had fingerprint scanner and she would unlock my phone with my finger as I slept, got in my phone and synced everything to the cloud with her accounts installed. she was paranoid i would be cheating on her, probably because she did it so much to others. but that level of intrusion into my private life was upsetting and created a great deal of anxiety.

how did I get better? Only by taking pragmatic steps to lock everything down and physically detach as far as possible from her. Then I had the space to mentally and emotionally get better, which has primarily been this forum as well as distracting myself with a new career and new circle of friends ive had to start from the ground up as she infiltrated everyone i had ever known, like a computer virus, to the extent of damage that i never knew anymore who to trust, so I just deactivated FB and spent time with my family members who were so relieved that "the freak" my stepson called her, was finally gone.

Im not so scared of her anymore skip, but I was very much so at the time, she has the ability to generate chaos by using other people, she is excellent at appearing vulnerable and abused and can get others to work on her behalf. At the same time, I wasnt fully aware of what she had said, or done, only that strange things started to happen. This has all ebbed away and my stress levels have got far better. no-one should be made to feel that way, particularly when all they ever wanted to do was make that person happy, who turned out to be the back stabber and worst enemy imaginable. If she wasnt a woman I would have broken her jaw, illness or not, because for playing games like that with peoples sanity, it would have been 1% of the hurt and trauma she did to me. Im just one of the lucky ones who got back on my feet, found this forum and took advice to heal. At the same time, I do have feelings for my ex, empathy and cant deny that at the least - i - felt love during the R/S. which just makes the whole thing more convoluted to deal with.

I had a good day today, hardly thought of her, these boards have been the best, i surprised how much i have shared of what happened to me, im normally a very private person, but its helped me considerably to open up and not refrain from sharing my experience. (she knew i was researching BPD, because she had hacked my phone, so i never joined here, i wish I did at the time, and i couldnt care less if she ever reads these boards, they might laugh at the damage they caused but my ex knows that she is no mystery to me, and thats why things got crazier towards the end.

[Wicker Man]

She has stalked all of her exs, its actually stupid when I look back, but the pattern was always the same in her relationships, i was just arrogant to think mines would be any different. it was honeymoon period, idolisation on both sides, followed by finding faults (that ruin the previous idolisation), this allows lack of guilt to go and cheat and sleep elsewhere (but try not to get caught), then she would triangulate with the secret person she had cheated with, but still try to keep the relationship going. Once she got found out cheating she would get discarded, rage and stalk her ex.

Mine seemed, in retrospect, to keep a rogues gallery of several past lovers.  In fact one of them was her boss.  They had a relationship and she claimed he lied to her about being married and later about being willing to leave is wife for her.  She kept our relationship a secret from him for the longest time, whereas she had revealed the relationship before ours to her boss -ironically because she was angry at him.  I didn't and still don't completely understand that behavior.  Unless she and her boss were still hooking up -who knows / at this point who cares... .

She said the boyfriend before me was a 'rebound and a mistake' and was not a good guy -of course this not so good guy did give her an apartment and a car... .

Once she and I had become serious, I had told her I believed this ex-boyfriend to be potentially dangerous to us.  He is wealthy, spoiled, arrogant, and 'likes people to be afraid of him' --it is not beyond the pale in her country to hire some guys to attack ex-realtionship partners.  He had tried to contact her repeatedly, and I had requested she block him. 

During a short vacation, I took a picture of her, which she said she would like to post.  I told her 'My dear this photo is clearly not a 'selfie', there are two place settings at the table and an awfully large pair of shoes in the corner of the frame.  She posted the photo anyway and her phone went berserk -message received... .and the ex-boyfriend responded frantically.  At this point I said 'we need him out of our life' and she agreed.  Months go by and I find out (inadvertently) she had, in fact, given him our home address.  --Sadly, I suppose, it should be assumed she had had him over to our apartment while I was away working. --lovely image... .

throughout the R/S once she got my phone hacked (google location history on GPS) she would start to occassionaly send me cryptic meme style images that sometimes had my face in it but distorted and with captions. my bank accounts and emails and facebook, all hacked and she was accessing when I slept. my phone had fingerprint scanner and she would unlock my phone with my finger as I slept, got in my phone and synced everything to the cloud with her accounts installed.

Here is where I feel I owe you an apology.  Your ex seems to have been a clear and present danger.  I never saw any premeditated malice from my ex. I am sorry I have been preaching about 'an utter lack of control and not having intent' -I never saw this side of BPD. 

In fact, she and I shared logins for both computers and phones.  At first her hackles went up a bit when I said 'I need your phone code'.  She said I never give anyone this! -I said it is time to start, your phone has never been backed up, and your computer is a mess.  She plopped down beside me and said show me.  She said 'Then will you give me yours?' -I said sure, it is your birthday.

My ex is simply a feather blowing in the wind, a lost soul.  Sometimes beautiful and sometimes terrible, but I never saw the abject evil you experienced. 

When she and I were in the same room everything was always great - Hell!  I would sleep well at night, and my resting heart rate would be in the mid 50s.   However, within a day or so of my leaving the wheels would fly off hard and fast and she would be raging --then my resting heart rate would be in the high 60's. 

"the freak" my stepson called her, was finally gone.

There has been a lot of relief from my friends both here and in her country since the demise of our engagement.  Now, my friends there are sad I won't be moving, but they were 'concerned' about some of her behavior.

she is excellent at appearing vulnerable and abused and can get others to work on her behalf.

At the same time, I wasnt fully aware of what she had said, or done, only that strange things started to happen... .At the same time, I do have feelings for my ex, empathy and cant deny that at the least - i - felt love during the R/S. which just makes the whole thing more convoluted to deal with. [/quote]

I definitely wanted to 'save' my ex and in doing so hoped to find my own happiness.   While we were together I felt incredibly optimistic and good about myself -I don't have self esteem issues --I felt even better, the best I ever had.  It was having an artist in my life who understood and appreciated my work, it was becoming intimate with the language and culture of a country I had been visiting for 8 years, it was the idea of family on a very deep level, and a work partner whom encouraged my growth as an artist.  Some of the references she would show me were mind blowing -she knew precisely what would effect me.

I had hoped to create a strong and stable home for us.  We had planned to have her grand parents live with us. --So yes. I know what you mean about feeling love.  There was a lot of love there... .until there wasn't.

She claims she 'made mistakes', 'has learned', is 'getting better'.  I am certain she believes all of this.  The entire experience is gut wrenching and tragic.

Anyway -please forgive my under estimating the depravity you experienced, and know my 'advice' was given through the lens of my relatively benign experience.


Wicker Man

[Cromwell]

mines was on a self destructive course and if I wanted to join her on it for the ride, she would appreciate the company. nothing more nothing less. I have stories about what happened to her exs before me that are too intense or graphic to even post on this board. I got away lightly in comparison and yes evil is the only word for it. but remember at this stage I was "painted black" so in her mind, deserved to be destroyed. Then as quick as a washing machine finishes its cycle, I could be idolised again. but at that stage she would have to momentarily comprehend the damage she was causing or had caused, then grasp for justification to paint black, rinse and repeat.

besides, she has only herself to blame for discovering the extents of my personal tastes and pornographic fetishes. what concerns me the most is it didnt stop her coming back for more, now that is disturbing. :D

No apology neccessary though, what I had to discover also is that whilst we are always discussing the core diagnosis of a PD, ive gathered enough to realise that the variations are vast within it. I could have ended up with better or worse. The same theme regardless of the methods is one of "destruction", your ex at least gave you a "heads up" the opportunity to take it seriously or see it as a throw away comment.

every PD i have encountered in my life I could detect a latent 'death desire', exhibited through reckless behaviour, self sabotagement. Anyone who would try to rescue them from this path will be despised. whenever I start to feel self pity for the things ive been through in the R/S, I came to understand it is just the tip of the iceberg for what turmoil must be going on inside these people, plus my ex. Add to BPD the psychosis element and I gave up ever with the idea of "figuring out" what was going on inside her mind. it was arrogant to think I could change any of it, due to not having any understanding of what I was trying to rescue.

At least the anger isnt there, it had a purpose, but all that behaviour and what she did with me only gave me more empathy and compassion, and I wont be carrying any of it with me onwards.

I notice a trend in that things I say people start to rethink aspects of their exs behaviour and some ? marks start propping up. All I can say to it, is I recommend to try to get to a stage where you can draw a line under this then stop trying to psychoanalyse, or at least do so with a very much detached emotional no longer involved mindset, there was a lot of things that surfaced that id rather have preferred not to have and just when I had felt better, would trigger a new cycle of angush for keep opening the lid on pandora's box. there comes a point to just accept to keep reaching out to the same fire will only result in new burns. certain revelations became too much and I had to take a brief interlude from this board. Ignorance can be bliss and in this case im done trying to figure out more or achieve a phyriic victory in the quest to "solve" it all.  some things are better left undiscovered.

The thinking about her, is not a longing feeling it once was, it is simply im at the stage of appreciating how profound this person had on my life, and still coming to terms with it, this was very much underestimated, I was a babe in the woods of what i was up against, whilst I was in the middle of it. a black and white contrast to my belief of being the rescuer. Im sure Medusa is thriving in her own way, in the midst of her voidness, to know I was still talking so much about her, she would be full of delight. Its about attention, for good or bad, doesnt matter either way, NC puts an end to all of it.

When you say that you never went through the same, the craziness developed exponentially, it also depended on various factors such as how much I started to detach, id then get the honeymoon period stuff again, which is what kept me ensnared for the long term. The brief glimmer of hope that things are actually starting to get better, must be doing something right after all. Insidious. I hope very much if you unexpectedly get days that you dont expect to be confronted by new revelations that you are more prepared for them then I was. I can handle it now, but still each day I get another insight however trivial, it all helps one step forward to the day i can put it to rest. Dont read too much into my own experience, all our journey to recovery is different, its just about sharing tips on what has worked so far as a way of progressing faster. humour helps a lot and is common amongst rescuers, I can imagine Medusa as some sort of call out I had, thinking it would be enjoyable and easy overtime pay, but ended up alone without backup against the most wanted terrorist, or something like the cop in die hard 1 reaching Nakatomi plaza. in other words, dont beat yourself up for not being able to save this person and like you said to me, the lifeguard has a duty to their own life first, that is very much what i concentrate on and have found the best results from pursuing.

Good night

Cromwell