10) Belief that they have seen the light.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

YOU ARE NOT WHAT SHE THINKS OF YOU... .love that thanks BPDlover...

when my ex would rage and at times I would get confused and would say, "What are you saying, if that's who you think I am, you need to stay far away from me".

This is day 5 of my NC... .I think my F/BPD/NPD friend had been dis-regulating all week and when one of her friends (male) asked me to go lunch without inviting her she flipped out at me saying I was violating her boundaries blah blah blah. The next day the same rant plus we need to separate our business dealings from our friendship we are too enmeshed and she is barely able to keep her yelling under control. I was manipulating her friends to get her closer to me... .blah blah blah and this was pushing her away... etc... .I felt like she was ending the friendship and the accusations were groundless. I tried to reason with her and explain my point of view but was told as she was slamming the phone down that I was angry and defensive.

I have spent three days trying to figure out if she was right... .being angry because she wanted me to be a cash station, and hurt that she would push me put of a close friendship (I thought) of 18 months without acknowledging any of the positive things I gave her.

I am not the manipulator she claims. I am not a bad guy. I deserve to not be screamed at and while I am a little sad today determined to not to believe the things she said about me.

[lastwave]

YOU ARE NOT WHAT SHE THINKS OF YOU... .love that thanks BPDlover...

when my ex would rage and at times I would get confused and would say, "What are you saying, if that's who you think I am, you need to stay far away from me".

This is day 5 of my NC... .I think my F/BPD/NPD friend had been dis-regulating all week and when one of her friends (male) asked me to go lunch without inviting her she flipped out at me saying I was violating her boundaries blah blah blah. The next day the same rant plus we need to separate our business dealings from our friendship we are too enmeshed and she is barely able to keep her yelling under control. I was manipulating her friends to get her closer to me... .blah blah blah and this was pushing her away... etc... .I felt like she was ending the friendship and the accusations were groundless. I tried to reason with her and explain my point of view but was told as she was slamming the phone down that I was angry and defensive.

I have spent three days trying to figure out if she was right... .being angry because she wanted me to be a cash station, and hurt that she would push me put of a close friendship (I thought) of 18 months without acknowledging any of the positive things I gave her.

I am not the manipulator she claims. I am not a bad guy. I deserve to not be screamed at and while I am a little sad today determined to not to believe the things she said about me.

[GP44]

I think it is safe to say that until and unless this person takes the initiative to seek you out to apologize and take responsibility for how badly they handled the demise of your relationship, there is no reason to believe that they have seen the light? I take my ex's silence as a continuing sign that she has not "seen the light" and if she had, she would be willing to make amends. I'm not saying I was perfect or never made mistakes. I have taken my personal inventory and endeavored to see what on my side of the street needed cleaning, but if she had done the same, she would be willing to at the very least seek me out for a dialogue? I use her silence as the intellectual basis to hold to NC?

[Tausk]

GP44.  Are you sure your ex is a pwBPD.  If so, then apologizing is very unlikely.  A pwBPD really has never learned to apologize b/c they are basically a three-year old in terror and shame.  Survival mode for a BPD doesn't include a real apology, because that would require introspection, which is well beyond most pwBPD.

I would suggest reading the posts from 2010.  Closure is not possible with a pwBPD.  Apologies, remorse, self responsibility... .it's not that mine was unwilling, it was that fact that she was UNABLE.

good luck and stay on the board and read as much as you can and see if you identify with the stories and the thought processes that lead us here.

[GustheDog]

Would *you* apologize to someone who you believed treated you in a controlling, punitive, persecutorial fashion?  Of course not.  You'd scoff at the suggestion and be reinforced in your decision to flee such a monstrous person. 

We are that monster to them.

It's the equivalent of someone telling you that you've been wrong in your characterization of the sky as blue for your entire life; the sky is actually aubergine and that you believed it was blue is a delusion.  But when you look at the sky you do not see aubergine - you see blue.  This is a fact to you.

To BPDs, it is a fact that there isn't anything over which they should take responsibility or apologize for to us.  They have behaved the way any reasonable person would when confronted by an imposing controller who means them harm.

Apologizing would be absurd.

[KellyO]

We are that monster to them.

This is the hardest part for me. It still haunts me. Because I know how he sees me, and in the end I got the pretty good picture of what kind of person he thinks I am. It is like looking in the mirror that is foggy, or broken. And I still question myself every day, if I really was the person he thinks I am. What if I'm the one who is twisted beyond repair, and seeing him in the broken way? I could see how much I disappointed him in every way, and I tried to live with that pain for three months  trying to save what there is to save. I have never felt so lonely in a relationship.

[theirdad]

Actions always speak louder than words.

Comitment to therapy.

Appologising.

Accepting some responsibilty for actions.

Willingness to talk and discuss issues.

these are just some actions that might indicate someone was willing to change.

Thank you MJJ and everyone else who shared their thoughts in this thread.  I am treading in the not-unfamiliar waters of recycling.  After a 6 year relationship, two young children, multiple recycles, a brief marriage, nearly a year of divorce/legal proceedings about to become final- I am again discussing possible reconciliation with her.  I remember, intellectually if not viscerally, all of the toxic dysfunction.  The situations (rages etc.) wherein I was at a loss for words acutely aware one cannot reason with the unreasonable.  Like many people here, my list of good qualities about her is long and significant.  The list of "badness" is equally so.  Yet without going into detail here, my life as a single parent is uncommonly challenging with over 100 miles between me and my children with whom I have significant custody time.  And I do genuinely love my wife to the degree that one can in this context.  So why not try to make it work?  There is an entire board here titled "Staying," (though I've never read much there.) Clearly some people are able to make 'something' of a relationship with a pwBPD. 

However, in my recent discussions with my stbx there is an undeniably familiar theme to the dialogue - it was all my fault.  Oh sure she admitted to doing "X," but quickly added she only did so because of something I did to force her to act such a way.  Really, I just want to hear her say anything in the list quoted above.  I don't expect it to happen.  I am to meet with her in a day or two to talk.  What's that well-worn definition of insanity; Doing the exact same thing twice and expecting a different result?   

Just felt the need to throw all this out there.  Thanks     

[love2give]

We are that monster to them.

This is the hardest part for me. It still haunts me. Because I know how he sees me, and in the end I got the pretty good picture of what kind of person he thinks I am. It is like looking in the mirror that is foggy, or broken. And I still question myself every day, if I really was the person he thinks I am. What if I'm the one who is twisted beyond repair, and seeing him in the broken way? I could see how much I disappointed him in every way, and I tried to live with that pain for three months  trying to save what there is to save. I have never felt so lonely in a relationship.

Very well explained.  Exactly how I am feeling.  Even after my family, friends and therapist, who have all met her and noticed something was "off" about her, I continue to think maybe she's right about how horrible I am.