Was I ever truly loved by her?

[SSJ0603]

(This is lengthy and I apologize for that. I did NOT want to be one of "those guys" writing novels in posts, but at the end it appears I have!)

So is it possible in all the five years we were together she never really loved me?   That's what I was basically told in response to my "New Member" post (I just joined last week). If not, I feel even more sadness and even worse about myself. My self esteem is diving even deeper into that deep black abyss that it's now in, and I feel like I myself am going crazy, as I've become absolutely obsessed with trying to sort all of this out . I ended the relationship myself in October and this is what I wrote in that recent post:

"I am more stunned and saddened than ever after reading an article that outlines the progression of a relationship with someone with BPD, which pretty convincingly confirmed that she suffers from it. It described my relationship with her and its progression almost to a T, and now I feel like I was possibly never truly loved by her at all." I feel like it was all a lie now!

It started breaking down three years ago after she entered a Masters program at a local college while trying to work full time while in school. She became extremely negative and always stressed out and worn out and that's when things seemed to begin to go really sour. I guess by that time we were still in that "Clinger" phase and had possibly gotten past the "Seducer" phase described in the "How a Borderline Relationship Evolves" article. Of course, I had hopes that after she was done with the program things would improve and return to "the way we were", but more courses and programs came up that she was enticed by and more and more things were added to her plate. Constant squabbles and confrontations with people at work (and the college she attended), and of course, she was always the one being singled out and attacked. She was "on the outside" of the "cliques" and always vilified by her peers and higher ups, she claimed. I think now I understand why! I'm sure there was probably some truth to that, as she was extremely combative with them, it sounds. If it wasn't for tenure, I'm sure she would've been let go a long time ago.

The flare-ups started happening about two or three times a week and after a one week beech vacation that had two major ones, the next time a major one happened at home I just couldn't take anymore and threw in the towel. I didn't even argue with her or really give her a concrete reason why I was leaving because I knew it would only result in another bizarre confrontation with her with no way to reason whatsoever. Which, of course, I'm sure you all know exactly what I'm talking about. We were engaged to be married next summer, which made it extremely difficult to call things off, but in hind site, the thought of living like that for the rest of my life was not something I wanted to have happen. I have two adult children and a new grandson and she was really threatened by my relationships with them. I could see that it was progressing towards a "them or me" situation and I was definitely NOT going to let that happen. I wish I could help her, but I honestly don't think she knows she has the condition, and if she does she has kept it from me. She's on several medications, for which she told me were for OCD, anxiety, depression, and sleep. I wonder now if maybe she was being treated for BPD. Either way, it was an impossible relationship and the more time goes by and the more things that pop up in my memory, the more I realize how insane things actually were. It's a slow fade and things happen so gradually that you don't even realize how unhealthy and bizarre they are until you begin to do some serious reflection, I suppose. I'm even starting to question whether or not she had been completely faithful to me throughout our relationship, as now I'm recalling incidences and friendships she had with guys that were in our circle of friends that made me feel uneasy at the time. Once there was an "emotional" relationship with a married guy that I began to see develop on Facebook in posts for the outdoor athletic activity we were involved in. I finally sat her down and talked with her about it after raising concerns about it more than once. I was shocked that I literally had to explain to her why that was neither appropriate or "ethical" behavior when it comes to a relationship and that it was more or less considered as infidelity. She acted as if she understood eventually, but I was forevermore suspicious that they just moved communication off of Facebook or to private messaging. Not a good feeling. I now absolutely hate Facebook due to this and other silliness that goes on with it, otherwise.

I do not absolve myself from any responsibility, as I saw warning signs years ago that I should have paid attention to. Some were extremely blatant, like the time I had carpal tunnel surgery and instead of taking care of my immediate needs when we got home, as promised and definitely needed for that day, she curled up on the couch and went to sleep for the rest of the day. There were many many more in the early days that I should've taken note of (some were really bizarre), but I know my own unhealthy emotional state overrode that. I thought I was fairly healthy at that time, though, but I guess not. I could go on and on, of course, but the bizarre details of the relationship follow a pattern that anyone experienced with this disorder is all too familiar with, so I'll spare you even more lengthy details.

Thanks for any input you can give me and for allowing me to vent! I'm soo glad I found this website! It's the only place I've found really constructive material that is from a first hand perspective with the illness.

[Mutt]

Hi SSJ0603,

So is it possible in all the five years we were together she never really loved me?  huh

This may help. Myth #2 of the 10 myths.

"Unknown to you, there were likely significant periods of shame, fear, disappointment, resentment, and anger rising from below the surface during the entire relationship. What you have seen lately is not new - rather it’s a culmination of feelings that have been brewing in the relationship."

Topic: 2) Belief that your BPD partner feels the same way that you feel

It started breaking down three years ago after she entered a Masters program at a local college while trying to work full time while in school.

She copes differently than you if she's BPD with anxiety and stress.  Taking her Masters in college and working full-time is a lot, it sounds like she was triggered from how you explain she was treating you and colleagues. I'm sorry.

Once there was an "emotional" relationship with a married guy that I began to see develop on Facebook in posts for the outdoor athletic activity we were involved in. I finally sat her down and talked with her about it after raising concerns about it more than once. I was shocked that I literally had to explain to her why that was neither appropriate or "ethical" behavior when it comes to a relationship and that it was more or less considered as infidelity. She acted as if she understood eventually, but I was forevermore suspicious that they just moved communication off of Facebook or to private messaging. Not a good feeling.

An emotional affair is tough!

A pwBPD fear abandonment perceived or real. She doesn't know whom she is and feels empty inside, she lacks a stable sense of self and mirrors others, she doesn't know where one person ends and the other begins and it causes poor personal boundaries. My ex started an emotional and physical affair when I threatened divorce, she fears abandonment.

I understand you may of been flabbergasted explaining it's wrong. This is the trigger ( real or perceived abandonment )

I just couldn't take anymore and threw in the towel. I didn't even argue with her or really give her a concrete reason why I was leaving because I knew it would only result in another bizarre confrontation with her with no way to reason whatsoever. Which, of course, I'm sure you all know exactly what I'm talking about. We were engaged to be married next summer, which made it extremely difficult to call things off, but in hind site, the thought of living like that for the rest of my life was not something I wanted to have happen.

Relationships are based on the fantasy of the need for others for survival, excessive dependency, and a fear of rejection and/or abandonment. Dependency involves both insecure attachment, expressed as difficulty tolerating aloneness; intense fear of loss, abandonment, or rejection by significant others; and urgent need for contact with significant others when stressed or distressed, accompanied sometimes by highly submissive, subservient behavior. At the same time, intense, intimate involvement with another person often leads to a fear of loss of an identity as an individual. Thus, interpersonal relationships are highly unstable and alternate between excessive dependency and flight from involvement. Empathy for others is severely impaired.

What are the Symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder?

I saw warning signs years ago that I should have paid attention to. Some were extremely blatant, like the time I had carpal tunnel surgery and instead of taking care of my immediate needs when we got home, as promised and definitely needed for that day, she curled up on the couch and went to sleep for the rest of the day. There were many many more in the early days that I should've taken note of (some were really bizarre), but I know my own unhealthy emotional state overrode that. I thought I was fairly healthy at that time, though, but I guess not. I could go on and on, of course, but the bizarre details of the relationship follow a pattern that anyone experienced with this disorder is all too familiar with, so I'll spare you even more lengthy details.

Don't be hard on yourself. Many members saw red flags ( including myself ) and became involved with someone with borderline personality disorder for different reasons.

You have a lot on your chest. It really helps to talk.

Welcome to the family  

[MrConfusedWithItAll]

Yes she would have loved you however the disorder always kicks in.  Their love always comes with an expiry date. 

[Pingo]

Hi SSJ0603, and welcome! 

I asked myself many of those same questions when I first arrived here.  I didn't know what to believe and it seemed crucial that I figure out what was real, what was fiction.  After some time passed I was able to see it more clearly for what it was and understand that my own experience was what mattered.  I loved my exh very much (I still do) but I could not live with him, he was getting scary and I knew at least my mental health was at jeopardy.

Everything about his personality was based in fear but he wouldn't admit to any of it.  I think he tried to love me but he also feared I'd betray him or abandon him so he couldn't really allow himself to love in a mature way.  It was more like an insecure child type of love, about need and lacking trust or true intimacy.

I think everyone on here has a different opinion about the love (or lack of love) they experienced with their SO, there has been many threads about it.  It's a process and with time and grieving, you'll start to make sense of at least your own experience.

And yes, as Mutt said, we here have all ignored many red flags early on, me included... .I could make a very long list!  I wanted to believe the best in my exh and I allowed things that I shouldn't have and let him walk over my boundaries (I never made them clear).  All we can do is learn from this and heal the wounds, this site has helped me tremendously with this!

[SSJ0603]

"Yes she would have loved you however the disorder always kicks in.  Their love always comes with an expiry date."

An expiration date. WOWosh, a relationship with a BPD is like a jug of milk before it goes bad, then. You can expect it to only last so long! At least I suppose I can take comfort in the fact that she loved me at one time. I wonder why she didn't get out of the engagement long before I left, if she wasn't in love anymore? A dependency thing?

Thanks for the welcome, Mutt , and for the info and quotes. It definitely helps. And yes, I'm finding it helps immensely to talk and to get this out. I've been researching and stewing on this and isolating myself for two months and I know it's not healthy. It sounds like anyone involved with one of these people had to have missed or ignored warning signs. I'm reading stories from some who talk of unhealthy behavior and traits that were truly blatant and obvious and that most even halfway healthy people wouldn't tolerate at all. Some of that really blows me away. It's the ones who dealt with the stuff that came on very subtly and slowly that I have a much better time understanding and relating to.

To me it seems like this disorder has spurned a whole subculture of abused and abandoned lovers, family members, and friends and I'm just coming to the horrible realization that this is what I've been dealing with! I mean, FIVE years I've carried on with this without having a clue about what I've been dealing with or living through! How could I be so blind? Right now, I feel like I'll be scared to death to ever trust any woman ever again.

The book listed at the top of one of the pages, "The Journey from Abandonment to Healing". Do you know if that's a worthwhile read? Thanks! 

[Mutt]

I shrunk myself and didn't talk to family members much or friends in the early stages of grieving ( family members are invalidating, didn't want to hear it  ) It does get better. Don't become a hermit!

Mental illness and borderline personality disorder never crossed my mind. I was with my ex wife for about 7 and a half years. A family member after she left mentioned BPD. I started looking it up and all of the pieces of the puzzle came together. I was also in denial. I really loved my wife and I still care for her and it was hard to accept she's sick.

I personally haven't read The Journey from Abandonment to Healing no.

[SSJ0603]

Hi SSJ0603, and welcome! 

I asked myself many of those same questions when I first arrived here.  I didn't know what to believe and it seemed crucial that I figure out what was real, what was fiction.  After some time passed I was able to see it more clearly for what it was and understand that my own experience was what mattered.  I loved my exh very much (I still do) but I could not live with him, he was getting scary and I knew at least my mental health was at jeopardy.

Hi Pingo and thank you!

Geeze, all of that sounds soo familiar, and right now especially the trying to figure out what is real, what is fiction part. Fear was a huge part of her being, as well. As far as getting scary, not only was my mental health more in jeopardy than I could ever know, but I think my physical, as well, even though she never really showed signs of that. We were both gun and target shooting enthusiasts and in the last year or so after things really started going downhill, on the nights I stayed at her house I started to fear that during the middle of the night sometime she might murder me! I downplayed it, but it was always in the back of my mind! Maybe I left none too soon! 

[H Hi]

Hi and welcome  

She probably did love you. The way it's been explained to me on here is that it's the way a child loves. It is not adult love. Adult love is based on mutual interest, respect, care, support and communication.

I could never communicate with my ex. Her points of reference where so hard to understand or follow. When things happen insidiously it can be all the harder to break away from. Try looking up trauma bonds on Google.

I was with my ex undiagnosed BPD for 4 months. She was high functioning. Her rages were more like grumpy toddler time and passive aggressive behaviour, stomping about, silent treatment. She was always guarded and emotionally detached apart from at the beginning where she told me all about her childhood on the third date! The fourth date she suggested going away camping together! Should have ran for the hills, but I thought  I really fancied her and give it a chance. I'm nearly 2 months out. Recycled three times. The third time I knew I was being bullsh***ed. Been NC for nearly 3 weeks. I used to cry every day and honestly think about suicide. It gets better. You will have dark days. I still do. That book is worth getting. I'm half way through it and it is helping me.

stay positive and keep posting. It helps. Only the people that have been with someone with BPD or BPD traits understand.

[Pingo]

The book listed at the top of one of the pages, "The Journey from Abandonment to Healing". Do you know if that's a worthwhile read? Thanks! 

Yes!  It is excellent!  I also recommend "The betrayal bond" by Patrick Carnes and you can find it reviewed in the book section also.

I'm reading stories from some who talk of unhealthy behavior and traits that were truly blatant and obvious and that most even halfway healthy people wouldn't tolerate at all. Some of that really blows me away. It's the ones who dealt with the stuff that came on very subtly and slowly that I have a much better time understanding and relating to.

For me, most of the stuff was not blatant, at least not early on.  I think we all have our own limit of what we consider 'crazy' or over the line behaviour.  It might have to do with what we've experienced in our earlier life.  For me, my mother was very subtle in her abusive and controlling ways and I lived with my ex for 4 yrs before I realised he was just like my mother!

Geeze, all of that sounds soo familiar, and right now especially the trying to figure out what is real, what is fiction part. Fear was a huge part of her being, as well. As far as getting scary, not only was my mental health more in jeopardy than I could ever know, but I think my physical, as well, even though she never really showed signs of that. We were both gun and target shooting enthusiasts and in the last year or so after things really started going downhill, on the nights I stayed at her house I started to fear that during the middle of the night sometime she might murder me! I downplayed it, but it was always in the back of my mind! Maybe I left none too soon! 

Mine was also a HUGE gun enthusiast and I didn't worry about him killing me while I was with him but the moment I ended things I certainly did (and still do although I refuse to let it control me any longer).  It's a horrible thought that someone we loved so much could even be capable of such a thing.  I was married before I met my uBPDexh and I am still in contact bc we share custody of my s10.  Never in a million years would I have the though that my first husband would hurt me or threaten me.  There's not even a tiny part of me that is scared of him.  So as crazy as I sometimes feel for having those ideas of my uBPDexh, I trust my gut that, like you say, I got out none too soon!

[JRT]

Hi and welcome  

She probably did love you. The way it's been explained to me on here is that it's the way a child loves. It is not adult love. Adult love is based on mutual interest, respect, care, support and communication.

I could never communicate with my ex. Her points of reference where so hard to understand or follow. When things happen insidiously it can be all the harder to break away from. Try looking up trauma bonds on Google.

I was with my ex undiagnosed BPD for 4 months. She was high functioning. Her rages were more like grumpy toddler time and passive aggressive behaviour, stomping about, silent treatment. She was always guarded and emotionally detached apart from at the beginning where she told me all about her childhood on the third date! The fourth date she suggested going away camping together! Should have ran for the hills, but I thought  I really fancied her and give it a chance. I'm nearly 2 months out. Recycled three times. The third time I knew I was being bullsh***ed. Been NC for nearly 3 weeks. I used to cry every day and honestly think about suicide. It gets better. You will have dark days. I still do. That book is worth getting. I'm half way through it and it is helping me.

stay positive and keep posting. It helps. Only the people that have been with someone with BPD or BPD traits understand.

Stay strong!

[SSJ0603]

Yes, Pingo, It's a horrible feeling to think that about them. Unfortunately you know exactly what I'm talking about! I think I'll try both of those books. I need to do something to gain some healing and that sounds like a good start. I'm going to see a counselor through my church who has dealt with BPD before, so I'm anxious to see what that brings.

Hi H Hi and thanks for your input, as well! It's hard to even fathom that an adult could have child-like love, but the more I think about my ex's actions quite a bit of the time, the more I can see how underdeveloped she was emotionally. Yes, her ideas were sometimes so baffling I didn't even try to follow. And arguing was out the question for me after a while, because it was so pointless. It was like talking to a wall that didn't hear a word I was saying, talked over me, and made no sense whatsoever most of the time. It's been over two months for me and I'm still crying some most days. The craziest things trigger it and I'm sure depression is a big part of it. Glad you have NOT taken action on suicide! As you said, things WILL get better, especially now that we have them out of our lives!


Mutt, I think my adult children and my sister would be OK to talk to about this... .if I would just open up. All three of them urged me at times to get out of the relationship, and ironically, both kids did so without me even bringing the relationship issues up the week before I actually ended things, and not having any knowledge that the other had done so. Must have been meant to be. Both had encouraged me that there were women out there who were healthy, who were like minded, and would appreciate having someone like me. Great kids (!), but I haven't wanted to burden either of them with this since then.

Sorry you dealt with it for so long and had to work through a divorce. I've been there, too, and know how devastating that alone is. Sounds like you're doing great now, though! Thanks for all your advice!

I'll try to get out more. I'm feeling better as of yesterday and today, as we're having our first truly sunshiny days in weeks. The gloomy, rainy weather has only made things worse for me. The only thing I've really gotten out and done besides work is that I actually spent Tgiving day and Christmas day with my ex-wife's family. We've been divorced since our adult kids were little and I still have a great relationship with them. Had I not been invited by them, I may not have had anything to do on those days with all the places my adult kids had to go on their own. THAT would've been seriously depressing! They're really good people, thankfully.


Thanks, JRT, I'm trying!

[Deeno02]

Mutt and Pingo are spot on. While I had zero idea what BPD was, there were those red flags. I won't bore you with listing them, but they are pretty much the same as you've read already. I loved her and those kids of her's with all I had and it just wasn't good enough. I don't know if I was truly loved by her, but she knew she was. Engulfment perhaps? Not sure. To needy and I cracked under the demands and got fired. It's been almost 5 months now, she had another a week after dumping me and while I'm getting better, I'm still a bit overwhelmed. It does get better. Use this forum, it truly helps. Weird part is that it seems we all dated the same guy/girl because everyone's so similar... . Welcome! Nothing but friendship here!

[borderdude]

You where needed, but not loved. At least they love you , but it it more like a childish love in my case.

I found out that my ex needed me, and i did interpret as love, my bad.

She idealized me big time, but i let it happend, also my bad, it it just a part of a BPD cycle, they split you black after, but i was not aware of it.

[Perfidy]

From what you wrote here, no. You aren't describing love. Love has a definition. That isn't love. What you are describing is a one way street where you are a means to an end. I know that hurts. It isn't what you wanted. It's not what you got. It happens. People don't know themselves. We try. We fail. We move on. It's not you. It's not her. It's not BPD. It's the way of all things. I know it hurts and I wish it were different, but if it were, it wouldn't be real.

[Deeno02]

From what you wrote here, no. You aren't describing love. Love has a definition. That isn't love. What you are describing is a one way street where you are a means to an end. I know that hurts. It isn't what you wanted. It's not what you got. It happens. People don't know themselves. We try. We fail. We move on. It's not you. It's not her. It's not BPD. It's the way of all things. I know it hurts and I wish it were different, but if it were, it wouldn't be real.

Yes. Very true. It was indeed one sided. Thats a great point to bring up. Love versus need. In my case, codependant/enabling, being needed was love to me. Thats why I THOUGHT she loved me, because she needed me. And she did. As an emotional tampon, but needed none the less. When the need was no longer there, the devaluing began in earnest as did the demands. Finally, I was canned.