pwBPD and astrology

[rotgut]

My estranged ubpw attributed all of our r/s "troubles" (her abusive behavior) on the fact that we were "opposite astrological signs". I personally give very little weight to astrology, but to each their own, as I try and respect everyone's religious preference.

Astrology was like a religion for my bpw and many of the things she read about, as in the pairing up of our particular Zodiac signs, were all very negative. She told me she read things like "a r/s between these two signs will bring trouble as one is a energy giver and the other a taker" (guess which one I was). She honestly attributed our marital woes to our signs. The message I got was basically: "your sign is doing this to my sign and now that you know this, and know that we are powerless to change it, you have absolutely no right to complain about my seemingly outrageous behavior or become irritated in any way, because in actual fact you are doing this to me, i.e., both of us." 

I had to listen to this bile ad nauseum, for years until one day I read this article about how what you think is your real astrological sign may not in fact be accurate, due to ancient astronomers not knowing about the earth's "wobble" 3000 years ago when they came up with the original signs.

After reading the article, I discover my wife's sign was indeed different than what she had believed and had been studying all those many years. When I looked up how my sign and my w's new "real" sign aligned it was supposed to be an "ideal" union.  I forwarded the link to her and she hardly mentioned the subject ever again, instead she just shifted her focus and rationalizations on the "energy" aspect of the no debunked theory.  I was still the controlling vampire.

What is you real sign ?: www.livescience.com/4667-astrological-sign.html

Would be very interested  to learn how your pwbp felt about astrology.

[RedRightAnkle]

This is really interesting... .I've never put much into astrological signs, but it's kind of funny.

My ex was a cancer before. Now apparently he's a gemini... .the twin signs... .the sign that indicates there's two VERY opposite sides of a person... .hm... .maybe there's some merit to this 

[MaybeSo]

I don't think my ex was a big astrology buff, but I have a good woman freind who is WAY into it. Regardless of your sign(s) and their influence, her contention is that we are never just the hapless recipient of whatever energy comes our way based on astrogloy or anything else for that matter. It all still comes down to what you want to do with that energy and your own personal responsbility for your own life, your own actions, your own choices, your own responses.  In her opinion, being aware of or believing in certain 'energies' is just information to have, it's not an excuse or scapegoat for personal responsibility.

[Sofie]

I don't remember my ex ever talking about astrology, but - the way I read your post - your ex might as well have ascribed the same importance to anything else that she felt she could use to get off the hook for being personally responsible for her own behaviour or the state of your relationship. As I posted in another thread, my ex concluded we were meant to be on the basis of both of us being allergic to hazelnuts.

At the end of the day, I think it's all just about looking for assurance that they are not to be held personally responsible for anything.

[rotgut]

Sofie you nailed it with "your ex might as well have ascribed the same importance to anything else that she felt she could use to get off the hook for being personally responsible for her own behaviour or the state of your relationship." Exactly true. I will entertain almost any idea and she would continually use this against me with her various, ever-changing theories to explain her "troubles".  I was so eventually so beat down that I even began to give credence to her astrological theory. Grasping at any thing to explain/ help me out of bp hell.

[Why Why Why]

My ex was sort of into astrology, but it wasn't to any crazy extent.

I'm an Aquarius and she is an Aries.  We're supposed to be compatible.  Guess not hahahaha!

[2010]

I personally give very little weight to astrology, but to each their own, as I try and respect everyone's religious preference.

Astrology was like a religion for my bpw

Have you ever wondered where these beliefs come from? One of the best webcasts about this concerns the reasons for metamagical thinking. Anytime you get patterns in life, you get people trying to make sense of them.  When enough people come together and accept these patterns- they become culturally sanctioned beliefs. In a way, these beliefs can become blueprints for how to live your life, but they can also become controlling factors that involve superstition that if done incorrectly, the belief can cause even more anxiety than *not having* the belief.

In my days in DBT, I came across several Borderlines that utilized culturally accepted beliefs as maladaptive reasoning, especially concerning the implementation of other people's boundaries. The concept of boundaries was usurped time and time again, as in: "he's just a stubborn Taurus!, or there's that Scorpion stinger again!" When really what was happening was a clear boundary placement by one person and a violation of that boundary by the Borderline.  The pattern of the belief of a person's horoscope sign over-rode the actual reality testing. In a sense, it was very conducive to denial of personal responsibility.  

Since Borderlines live and think and dream in a child's world of fantasy for protective measures, (the testing of reality hurts)- the maladaptive ways of coping with reality can take these forms in "patterns" for safety that soothe them from having to deal with the fallout of personal responsibility *and* unpredictability in life.  Strong emotions of anxiety and paranoia can cause some people to explain away their boundary violations and blame it on their beliefs. That belief is usually implemented to protect the ego functions and claim that another person's boundaries were/are persecutorial or wrong.

This Video lecture by Stanford professor Robert Sapolsky on schizotypal personality and "metamagical thinking" is really fascinating as he discusses the need for patterns and our cultural acceptance of them. If you've got about 35 minutes- it's a good listen:

www.blip.tv/play/AYGHoAKXoHo

[gWocky00]

I always knew when there was a new dude in the works, as she would be going to astrology sites on the internet to see if they were compatible. She always forgot to erase the history.  Or she would be pulling out the ouija board, or her angel cards to get her read on things.    I even went so far as to take her to a psychic once to try and figure out what the hell was wrong with her.  Long before I knew about BPD.  Actually I think they need a new sign for all these people, called F'd up.  it would be a picture of a woman , in my case, with two heads, breathing fire, and throwing snakes ,spears or whatever while dressed in Prada.  Good God.

[rotgut]

  gWocky as President Clinton used be fond of saying "I feel your pain". Brother I really do. That shti is maddening, and the fact that we actually were so desperate, we actually looked to it as a solution... .talk about crazy-making behavior.

[Why Why Why]

Actually I think they need a new sign for all these people, called F'd up.  it would be a picture of a woman , in my case, with two heads, breathing fire, and throwing snakes ,spears or whatever while dressed in Prada.  Good God.

Hahahahahahaha!  The 13th sign!  Fitting.

[gWocky00]

Mine also had the whole magical thinking thing, thinking she could cause harm to people if she wished it, Anytime we were walking or driving and street light went out, I would go "did you do that"... .She actually thought she did.  We didnt even have a voodoo doll in the house.  ha ha.  Of course she saw ghosts, dead people in or out of our house,  talked to Jesus and the devil, (I dont know if in the same conversation though).  We also had some Budda's that I couldnt be naked in front of, and we had to put offerings of candy in front of.  No disrespect to the religeon, but she wasnt a follower , just something she picked up on.  She was raised catholic, so go figure. 

[FindingMe2011]

Maybe i should have paid more attention to my uBPDw sign. I never really paid this stuff too much attention, either. I actually thought she was the same sign as me. Her birthday was 4 days prior to mine. Turns out she was CANCER. In more ways than one. Fits her perfectly. 

[just_think]

This has nothing to do with my ex (she was a "christian" after all and would never engage in such things) but since everything went down, I've learned to give a bit more credence to these types of things. 

I've always been very skeptical/ logical/ scientific but things happened (continue to happen) that won't let me deny that there is something odd afoot in the universe.  I have had a radical acceptance that there are certain... .metaphysical forces in the universe that are at work.  Jung was a big proponent of astrology and while I still don't think I agree fully with astrology, I think there are archetypes that we all draw from which astrology seems to be tapping into. 

[rotgut]

I was hoping someone would post a somewhat pro astrology point of view. Would you mind expounding on your statement " Jung was a big proponent of astrology and while I still don't think I agree fully with astrology, I think there are archetypes that we all draw from which astrology seems to be tapping into. This seems interesting.

[just_think]

I was hoping someone would post a somewhat pro astrology point of view. Would you mind expounding on your statement " Jung was a big proponent of astrology and while I still don't think I agree fully with astrology, I think there are archetypes that we all draw from which astrology seems to be tapping into. This seems interesting.

I'm by no means an expert on astrology or jung but have a rough idea of some of the ideas.

I'll start you off with some quotes I found from Jung that kind of explain where he is coming from:

www.danapanduru.co.uk/quotes.php

We all draw from certain archetypes.  We see things through "lenses" if you will.  These are so ingrained in human consciousness that it is almost unconscious that we notice these things. (perhaps more accurately it can be said that our conscious minds focus elsewhere and it is like background noise).  some of these archetypes (basically, "human nature" are outlined in astrological signs.  I think it misses the mark a l of the time and has a very unscientific bent to it but there is still something there that is very human and very real.

I don't think astrology can necessarily provide factual answers.  I do think it can provide guidance at times. Most importantly, they should not be relied on and are not fate.

[diotima]

Someone started a thread awhile back asking people to post their astrological signs and the signs of their BPDex's. Whether I should admit this or not... .who knows, but I know a fair amount about astrology (something I don't usually admit) and the sun sign alone tells us nothing.

Diotima

[ajr5679]

mine would say "i am a Aquarius that is why i run when life is to hard to handle. now that is a excuse ?

[just_think]

mine would say "i am a Aquarius that is why i run when life is to hard to handle. now that is a excuse ?

haha, exactly.  If it wasn't astrology it would have been something else. 

Oh man, it's been so long since I've thought about all these crazy behaviors.

[once removed]

honestly i don't give any credence or respect to astrology, partly because it's contrary my religion, but primarily because of stories like that.

i do see an interesting commonality that a lot of borderlines (not at all suggesting it's symptomatic) have these sorts of beliefs. mine didn't at all though.

i was fighting with a friend and we were on the verge of ending our friendship, in high school. she was into all of that. she accused me of certain kinds of behaviors that didn't describe me at all, i just could no longer stand this person, and she said "i guess that's because you're a scorpio." i told her sorry genius, but your lucky stars should have told you im a libra