Karma and Revenge ?

[Mouser]

Someone wiser than me once said: when fighting monsters one must be careful not to become one oneself.

BPD is a mental illness. Many of their actions are sick. Would you punish your brother or sister if they had BPD and were hurting you or your loved ones? Ultimately we are all brothers and sisters. I recommend you pray to 'the big guy in the sky' for a compassionate way to handle this BPD problem.

Sincerely

[truly amazed]

Hi Mouser,

BPD is a mental illness. Many of their actions are sick. Would you punish your brother or sister if they had BPD and were hurting you or your loved ones? Ultimately we are all brothers and sisters. I recommend you pray to 'the big guy in the sky' for a compassionate way to handle this BPD problem.

Each to their own ... .your overly religious view is noted.

I am not punishing ... .havn't done a thing as yet.

My partner is being hurt by someone with BPD. Turning the other cheek is what we both have been doing for 11 months. Any direct action to try and stop this will only eventuate in it becoming worse not better. They both sadly are sick.

It is not acceptable to have it continue and allow someone I love to continue to be hurt. Yes I accept the one doing the hurting has BPD . or NPD ... but this is NO EXCUSE or something I should show compassion towards other than try and avoid it if I can. We have totally avoided this and have been backed into a corner.

My partner is being forced into contact with a monster because he gets his jollies out of it.  

If you have some constructive advice I am all ears. Sadly have been thru most alterantives and come up with zero. We both are 11 months out ... .her partner we now know has been the one with the late night phone calls numbering 70 or so over the last 8 months since NC was enforced. He now is turning up at her workplace where he does have some reason to be there and little my new partner can do other than quit to stop it.

It will not stop there of course ... .once these sad people smell blood they will persue them to wherever.

Would you punish your brother or sister if they had BPD and were hurting you or your loved ones?

NO NOT PUNISH ... .I would try and get them to stop ... .done ... .aviod at all costs ... .done ... . and still they continue.

We go to the police ... .her bosses ... .his bosses ... .the type of PD he has will only make it worse as then he knows he is getting thru and the nightmare will continue with renewed vigour as he will then have justification in his sick little mind for revenge because she complained.

These people with the disorders especially ones with the stalker part in it ... .just dont go away via normal means. The like most with a PD do not understand others feelings at all.

Saldy between a rock and a hard place and whilst not being as devout as you ... . I do hope the big guy makes her ex go away. He doesn't sadly and with regret I will ... .and its not about punishment its SELF PRESERVATION ... .

NC is about the NON ... .and has nothing to do with the person with the PD.

[valkyriemp]

NC is about the NON ... .and has nothing to do with the person with the PD.

And this is why it helps to remember that we are all in control of ourselves, and nothing more.  You can address how you respond to their behaviours, but you can't change them... .

 

[truly amazed]

Hi

And this is why it helps to remember that we are all in control of ourselves, and nothing more.  You can address how you respond to their behaviours, but you can't change them... .

Yep ... .true.

Don't care about either of them other than wanting them to go away.

We shall see where the sadly sick take me from here. Its tearing my partner up more than it affects me ... .and have no desire to have to do anything other than continue on with my new life and be happy. There sadly is a strong possibility it will not be allowed and the continued harassment of my ex will go on.

What is driving this current bout of late night phone calls or direct confrontation is immaterial. Trying to place logic inside the minds of those mentally ill a total waste of time. Sure compassion and understanding of the illness are there. I don't care about them ... .they are our pasts ... .our respective mistakes and what certainly shaped us and have taken us to where we are today. All of it good !

I am very happy ... .healthy and strong where I am today . In touch with where I am ... .how I got here and what I stand for. Scars are healed in the main ... .don't hold some grudge or desire for justice that's the big guys job ... .  Honestly just want to be left alone.

Sadly I suspect it will continue and my boundaries which are now intact about to be smashed again.

Having made the mistake once about boundaries and allowed them to be trampled and become a doormat, not about to sit and watch the one I love be tormented. Its a dilemma and one I sadly have to deal with. I don't want to act, just be left alone.

If after 11 months its not stopping but actually escalating despite no contact from either of us for over 6 months I am at a loss to apply any reasoning as to why it continues. We, I suspect, are being punished for some sad or sick reasoning they have in their minds. 


Only time will tell if it changes ... .or the bug spray is needed.

[id-crisis]

Truely, is there any way your partner with your input and help, could compose a very short & concise letter to this douchebag?

Outlining how settled and looking forward to her future with you she is and that she found his presence in her work place unsettling, for obvious reasons. And then finish the letter by making an enquiry about the issue that could get him fired and leave it there? Send it via snail mail, that way it's much less disposable than an email or text and may be taken a little more seriously. Give him longer to ponder upon it! Not so easy to delete & forget about.

At least it would give him a fair warning that if he doesn't stay out of her face, he could be up against losing his job. After all, if he does lose his job, someone somewhere is probably going to be at the butt end of his nasty temper.

[truly amazed]

Hi,

Truely, is there any way your partner with your input and help, could compose a very short & concise letter to this douchebag?

Outlining how settled and looking forward to her future with you she is and that she found his presence in her work place unsettling, for obvious reasons. And then finish the letter by making an enquiry about the issue that could get him fired and leave it there? Send it via snail mail, that way it's much less disposable than an email or text and may be taken a little more seriously. Give him longer to ponder upon it! Not so easy to delete & forget about.

At least it would give him a fair warning that if he doesn't stay out of her face, he could be up against losing his job. After all, if he does lose his job, someone somewhere is probably going to be at the butt end of his nasty temper.

Hi ... .thanks good suggestion.

sadly having done similar ... .it gets twisted and turned. Sent a stern NC one and it was shown as proof that she was breaching NC ... .when she had not contacted her ex for many months. Basically the attempt then was please leave me alone. If you contact me I will be forced to get a restraining order. Have no interest in your life ect ect. Leave me alone.


It was, we now know sadly paraded as though she was threatening him ... .when the sad fact was he was tormenting her and turning up and despite him being in a new RS he wanted her as the backup. She got this stopped but was made out as the person breaching NC ... .


Good idea but ... .sadly tried this route ... .tried several others to no avail ... .it didn't stop as we now know he just went covert ... .and the villification continues. My partner has had zero contact initiated by her for 9 months. Similar for me ... .

In the end ... .its saddening people with BPD or whatever her ex has suspect NPD ... .sociapath ... .have little understanding of others feelings or care for them. telling him she found his presence at her work unsettling ... .or he actually got thru I suspect would have a vastly different result than the goal we are aiming for. NC He would just turn up under the guise of work on a weekly basis.


All of it a bit sad. I am hoping he doesn't repeat this action again this week as its possible he can and will ... .today is the first test.

There are two days of the week he could turn up ... .and for 11 months he avioded the situation directly ... .but if its sadly upping the ante ... .today is the day.

Didn't tell my new partner of my suspicion and hope I am wrong and he just leaves her alone.

I suppose the considered response is to give his boss the chance to take action and make sure her ex does not turn up ... .but not telling him ... .and trust he doesn't. Placing trust in someone and hoping they can see how painful or deliberatly unsettling it would be for someones ex to turn up after abusing her and treating her badly might actually not be a good thing.

Likely even this soft option of appealing to he ex's boss and explaining to him this is not acceptable will only again have an awful outcome with her ex finding out why and turning it all back around.

Hence I came to the only conclusion I did is to have him removed from his job via alterantive means and on the face of it not having anything to do with it. In some ways the choice is actually his. Or the big guys upstairs ... .

Thanks again ... .always a  catch 22 with all of this. Again the old pathological double blind either way ... .heads you loose ... .tails they win.

[2010]

quote author=truely amazed  

One of the biggest lessons I learnt via a BPD RS was its not up to me to change someone else ... .you cannot change anyone other than yourself and its not up to you to rescue ... .or change someone else. Either they want change ... .see there is a problem ... .and devote 100% of their resources to try and change it ... .or they dont.

As you've written on another thread: you're right TA, it's not up to you to rescue. In fact, you might ask yourself here if you've traded in one failed rescue attempt to forge forward into a new one.  All this talk about karma and revenge is just keeping you hooked into stress. Nothing's changed from the previous relationship for you, according to your mind and body. If you listen to your stress levels you'll see that the feelings about control (or loss of it) are the same.

Believe me when I say, that the only person responsible for this is your girlfriend. Like everyone else on this board, she has to stop feeling victimized and looking for rescue (triangulating (read definition)) and work on her own lack of boundaries with the end of a former relationship.  In fact, both of you are struggling with this and are trauma bonded.

Both of you need to put personal boundaries in place and then test them. That means that she stands up to him by leaving you out of it and handling the fallout on her own. That doesn't mean that she gets a new boyfriend (you,) triangulates him with the old and basically continues feeling victimized for the rest of her life while she stays helpless and seeking rescue.

If there is stalking involved, then she goes to the police- NOT tell the new boyfriend who then engages in an attempt to defame and punish.

Karma is action and reaction. You'll want to be aware of your reaction, as it plays a part in unwanted action.  If you continually react- then you must see where you are on the drama triangle (victim, rescuer, persecutor) while playing a disordered game. As they say, "the only way to win is not to play."

Let go and let her handle her own issues. This is no reflection upon you. If, however, her failures are reflective of your self esteem, then address this in therapy.

Anytime you feel that an attachment doesn't represent you properly and you become stressed- you can either accept that they are not perfect and you still accept them in imperfection - or you can choose to walk away- but you do not stay to fight their battles for them. That battle is a lesson of theirs to learn. Your lesson is to let them learn it.

The best advice you could give her is to ignore any attempt at contact and turn away from it and you will do the same.  

[sm15000]

I read the link posted by 2010 on the victim triangle. . .i thought it was brilliant and well worth reading.

I had a   moment (again) and think my exuBPD/NPD's has been on a continual circle of this in his adult life in relationships.

After reading this (and in hindsight remembering when we drove past my old house where i lived when we met, he said that's where i rescued you from  ) at the beginning i believe he was in Rescuer mode. . .no doubt to help him come out of the victim mode he goes into when he needs validation that he is not the cause (again) of a relationship breakdown.  I believe he is almost 'tuned' in to those he believes are 'needy' or 'wanting' of attention.  I think he thought this of me - and to a certain extent he might have been right - but he was wrong to believe that in a 'crisis' i would continue to play the role of victim. . .i wasn't prepared to carry on running around the circle - i got off.

When he gets bored of the rescuer role or decides he's not getting enough back - he cheats. . .then he goes into persercutor. . .becoming more narcissistic, blaming, projection. . .anything to avoid feeling worthless again.  When shame kicks in he becomes the victim and the self-loathing, self-pity, feeling of worthlessness comes out and what does he do to make himself feel better - go back to rescuer  

As the article says if you don't take responsibility, accountability, and be honest with yourself . . you keep going around the victim triangle and you can never achieve true intimacy - and he couldn't

Sad thing is i think this is based in his childhood. . .but i don't know to what extent

[truly amazed]

Hi ... .

I am not in a RS to save anyone. My new partner does not need me to save her or anything like that.

Neither of us are victims ... .my question is are you ? We both made poor choices with RS's in the past and have grown. We both have moved on and are very happy together.

We are not playing some disordered game. Neither of us has had anything to do with either of our ex partners directly or indirectly for 9 months.

We are fully aware they are trying to drag us back into some drama circle and just want to be left alone. Simple as that.

Both of us have turned the cheek when repeated NC breach attempts have continued ... . between the two of us for 100 breaches of NC ... .neither of us has spoken directly to our ex's ... .communicated with them in any way or asked for this to continue. We have shown NO reaction.

Police ... been there and investigated this ... .police hate one thing above any other and thats domestic situations. Restraining orders frankly dont work and with people with a PD even less.

Yes I would agree my partner needs to deal with this issue herself.

It is however my perogative when someone is attacking my partner for whatever reason to take action. This is part of mutual support ... .not some need to save someone ... .but supporting your partner. Something healthy ... .not as you suggested something unhealthy.  

Yes you may see me being backed into a corner ... .literally ... .and maybe having to take action as

an attempt to defame and punish

This sadly says to me more about you than it does about me.

Do you want to punish your ex ? I honestly couldn't care about either of them I am indifferent other than the ongoing attacks.

We sadly have been ignoring the breaches and now they have escalated was hoping I suppose for some support or constructive advice which yes continuing to ignore them is one ... .other ones yes helpful.

Stessed ? not really ... .I can see however the effect the continued rubbish is having on my partner. Do I ignore it as you suggest ? Ignore her being attacked ?  If I was to do this ... .ignoring the needs to some extent of my partner in what IS a healthy relationship ... .it would then be a less than healthy relationship.

I have been in a relationship where there was no respect and no support and having found a healthy one I suppose asking what you would do ?

Believe me when I say, that the only person responsible for this is your girlfriend. Like everyone else on this board, she has to stop feeling victimized and looking for rescue (triangulating (read definition)) and work on her own lack of boundaries with the end of a former relationship.  In fact, both of you are struggling with this and are trauma bonded

Feeling ? Hmm ... .your ex for 15 years who abused you in every way you can think of turns up where you work and torments you ... .


Bit different from feeling vs a reality of him being there.

That means that she stands up to him by leaving you out of it and handling the fallout on her own.

yep ... .she has ... .up until now ... .and its escalated not diminshed. Hence my dillema ... . or as you would say its her problem not mine.

It is mine if I make it mine ... .and if as you suggest I am playing some game having not played at all for the last 9 months and 100 breaches of contact ... .some awful villifaction about what I supposidly did or she did ... .we turned the cheek to all of this ... .and instead of getting better via no action its not ... .but worse ... .I choose to possibly take action.

Simple as that.


Every relationship people come with baggage ... we all have scars and expecting an adult over the age of 40 not to have some past is stupid.

Some who have an awful RS via a BPD partner ... or past will choose to spend the rest of their lives usuing this as an excuse as to why they never get involved again.

My new partner and myself learnt and grew from our previous RS and yes it left scars but also boundaries for what we would no longer tolerate in our lives. This is one of them. A mutual belief ... .we should be allowed to live our lives unhindered by abuse.

[ItsAboutTime]

This message post has been a demanding one to read and understand. All I can say is that if he's harassing your ex, then file a formal complaint against him in writing at the local police station. If it continues, get a restraining order. He's not harming either of you, it's harassment. Let it go, follow legal steps and forget about revenge.

[Roger Rabbit]

I'm very proud of my reputation within my circle of friends, and my exBPDgf has been saying all sorts about me on Facebook. At first I wanted to fight back, tell everyone what she had done, but instead I just put something along the lines of "There are two sides to every story, but I won't splash them all over facebook because that isn't what I'm about."

No names, no specifics, and I'm so glad I did. I can tell it's 'worked' because she is replying to loads of our mutual friends trying to play the victim, but has time has passed,  it's become clear to them who the 'bad' person was, most hardly respond to her any more, keep her at arms length.

They have no boundaries and people can tell who is the one who is full of drama.

This worked or me. Rise above it. 

[truly amazed]

Hi Roger Rabbit ,

Yep ... same.

Did and have done so ... .its always hard to be villified and turned into some monster or the bad person. Did rise above this and not respond. A lot of what was told now I find amusing the absurdity of it 

Was hard in the beginning with mutual friends going either side of the fence and went ... .ok. Whatever.

Dont need to lift a finger in any respect on that side ... .honestly dont care what others may believe and its their choice to do so.

Like you without doing anything most have come to the correct conclusion and even then honestly dont care about the others.

We find out who our friends are at times like this. Not being on our side or anything so petty. Most rightly don't honestly care and do not want to be involved. Sadly some were cruel in the extreme being told rubbish which left them no choice but to form a negative opinion or condone some fictional story they were told. Even this didn't work as eventually it has come back and bit the story teller via other means when their past RS and similar stories told were total fabrications ... .

As you said there are always two sides to a story and two perceptions of what happened and somewhere in between is the truth. For me and my new life can only live that according to my values and goals and move forward.

Having my ex's best friend ... .her mother ... .and many others come and actually take the time to tell me the truth of her past was sad ... .


For my new partner ... .she didn't have the same sort of experience ... it was as though her mutual friends dissapeared totally for a while and now they are slowly coming back. In many ways they accepted stories at face value as truths and even absurd ones.

Current situation nothing to do with this ... .we are happy and living our lives ... .very happy with each other.

Hopefully the direct stuff stops.  I just dont care about my ex ... .and am indifferent to their plight ... .So too my partner ... .  about her ex.

Not about justice ... .or karma or revenge ... even what is right or wrong ... .  happy with where the dice falls on all of that.

Just about stopping the NC and continued harrasment. Police not a realistic option.

Oh well will crawl back into my hole with this one and hope they go away 

[2010]

Yes you may see me being backed into a corner ... .literally ... .and maybe having to take action as an attempt to "defame and punish"

This sadly says to me more about you than it does about me.

No, it's about your question. I directed my response to your post:

"I have the ability to change both their lives by making some information published on the internet about them public and it would frankly change their lives ... .revenge ... .and its tempting to change their lives totally and having problems dealing with this dilemma.

Essentially think if the information was to become known to their employer they would lose their job. They shouldn't be working in that job not with their history and again shows how little remorse someone with a PD actually has.

Struggling with this issue ... .do I ... .or don't I ?"

[truly amazed]

Hi 2010,

Obviously I don't ... .

Its been a struggle for a while moving thru anger ... .and all the stages in the meantime being contacted virtually on a weekly basis ... defamed ... .villified and the rest. Like most have not responded despite the temptation and ammo.

Don't care about them now but yep when i started this thread was dealing with revenge side ... .basically hitting out to try and make it stop ... .the contact, the villification ect.

Have become pretty immune to it myself as my ex cannot force the issue and make it become direct. I hang up, changed phones ... .moved ... .blocked FB ... .trash emails ... .and ignore.

Quite different for my current partner. Sadly any way she turns its not good. Police only inflame people like this.

In the end obviously despite holding the power to remove the annoyance I have not acted and honestly unlikely to.

Its like and insect on your arm ... .and yes sadly it is annoying ... .some will act and squish it without a second thought. Others might brush it off ... .  try this 100 times and the temptation to stop it coming back via squishing it is my own anology. It would be with regret ... .and frankly they are not worth it even the minimal effort.

The bug sadly after being brushed off and ignored 100 times has decided to sting me or more be more accurate my partner. If this is revenge or some sort of justice  ? ... .  when I saldy suspect it will get up and sting again ... .I am at a loss to understand this concept its revenge or me punishing it ?  Yes the end result will be changing their life but not done out of anger ... or some concept of punishment... . I need an outcome and left with little choice.

We shall see ... .its been brushed off for time number 101 despite stinging this time.

Do I or don't I ? at 102 ... .or 103 ... .or 104 ? eventually saldy and with regret there comes a time.

Since I have been having this debate with myself over many months and not acted this in itself might tell you something ? Its not about payback ... .or justification ... .or even karma ... certainly not revenge ... .certainly not as you suggested to punish ... .or defame for the sake of it.

Its an insect thats now drawing blood and despite ignoring and every other technique know keeps coming back.

Interesting how one acts in times of extreme provication and happy with  myself  no matter what happens from here.

Its not two wrongs never make a right or anything rational ... .we are dealing with people sadly with PD's and yes they deserve compassion and our remorse for their plight ... .  however applying logic or boundaries has failed to get either of us anywhere.

I am at peace with whatever the solution finally turns out to be.

Stay cool 

[valkyriemp]

Glad to hear it truly amazed... .it does seem to be causing you some turmoil.  Innit funny how one person can make you SSSOO mad!  I feel the better person for learning to not let him do that to me anymore (mostly!).

 

[truly amazed]

Hi,

Yep ... .not mad ... .hurt I suppose ... .again back into that triangle as 2010 put it ... .in a role I dont want to be in. Possible persecutor.

It is a role I refused to play during my RS with my ex ... .didn't raise my voice and was a doormat. Even with extreme provication.

I choose ... .I choose as someone who has learnt and grown far beyond the BPD saga not to take this role. its tempting ... .was tempting when i was healing ... .was tempting when i was hurt ... .

Now I suppse I will take a pass because I can. Will try and brush the fly off a few more times and hope it goes away.

In that triangle played the rescuer ... .and the victim of abuse ... .

Dont really put any stead in some of these things because in most situations in life from everday interactions to actual conflicts it can be put into these three categories. At some point looking to hard into interactions just makes you go crosseyed.


Same with BPD ... .whilst having been hurt ... .confused ... .depressed ... .abused ... .and all the rest post BPD. I like most was left asking myself was it me ? Blamed and believing it was my fault why the RS broke down and taking 100% of the blame ... .playing the victim to the tee ... .well not playing it ... .bamboozled totally.

Reality is everyone to some extent has these BPD traits ... .and its a unique and sad mixture that makes a BPD person in the end. A combination of missing ingredients that totals 9 ... .some of the criteria I certainly can relate to but I dont use them as a weapon and they are not the driving force in every daily interaction ... .


Many thanks for all the responses and help 


As with everything its a learning experience and having made have good look at myself ... .my values and what I stand for I am happy with whatever happens from here.


Thansk again and good luck with your individual journey