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Author Topic: Is It Possible They Treat Some Partners Better Than Others  (Read 7082 times)
FindingMe2011
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« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2012, 07:34:11 AM »

Ok it seems like everyone pretty much agrees that there may be differences in the treatment of long term partners, but basically although the methods of torture may vary the result is always the same.

I asked a question earlier about our BP's and when they leave us for the replacement, whether the BP was especially motivated to make it seem as if the new relationship is perfect as another way of hurting us.  One poster here, I think it was Alcochoc, mentioned that they don't think of us at all.

I'm not so sure I buy this... I think the BP's do in fact think of us.  I think once in a while they like to hurt us even more, and they're especially prone to making it look as if the new relationship is perfect.  They do this because they honestly believe that the non is the root of all the problems with the relationship, and they want to hurt us by making us feel guilty because it was all OUR fault for not being able to resolve the problems in the r/s.

Any thoughts on this?

 You have to remember, that feelings are facts to BPDers. Even though, I did not know the dynamics of the illness, I could see when the the thoughts got outrageous, she really did believe herself. With that being said, if she thinks her new partner is perfect (just as she did with me), then it is. This will change, just as soon as this person does wrong, whether percieved or real, and its not a gamble. Its a sure thing. The battle isnt the r/s, its their past, and they can run, but they cant hide.  Although it seems, as if they are piling on the pain, they have no way of seeing past thier own ego, to see the destruction they cause, nor have the ability to feel it, as we do. Just mimmick, by observing others. (another strange event I have witnessed, many times over) I have also understood that BPD illness, doesnt stand alone. So this would also play a part. During our b/u, I also got first hand info, that the abandonment fears, start immediately, from comments she made to me, about her new partner. I really do believe my stbx, didnt want a divorce. She just wanted me to jump higher for her, to feel loved, however she processes the feeling. Regardless, it will never be the way I process the feeling. This was very apparent, as the process is 1 1/2 yrs, in the running, with many reengagement attempts made. Some made with me seeing her right after the attempt, which really brought some more insight on the dynamics. I would shut things down. In the begining, out of being hurt, and angry, and really said some mean things. In the end, more out of kindness, for all involved. Either way, the fear it created in her, was very real, to her. So much she decided to call the police on me, rage from time to time, find attention elsewhere, ect. ect.,  with no basis, or facts, just as BPD percieved it.  A reaction, whether positive, or negative from me, (which is what the illness strives for) only does one of 2 things. It either strokes her ego, mommentarily, or breaks mine down, and alot of times both was accomplished at the same time. Just typing this, reminds me, just how exhausting the r/s was. With children involved, the attempts, will most likely continue, (in positive and negative ways, depending on whats floating through her head) in some form or fashion. It seems that she is learning my boundaries, through her rejection fears, which is also sad to see. She really does only learn, to not touch the stove, when its too hot. A childs mentallity, but it has seemed to work for her. Her choice, and I respect that, but greatful, I dont dance anymore, and have no want to anymore. IMHO, the steps to the dance may be different, but the outcome the same. A TOXIC R/S,  no matter how long it lasts. I wish everyone well, in thier recovery, and hope they take the journey. Many unforseen, twist and turns, (still encountering them) but for the better.  PEACE
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alcochoc
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« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2012, 08:47:02 AM »



hello, alcochoc here xx

i personally don't think they 'think' of us at all! 

i think what i mean by this is that they don't think of us in the way we'd like or in the same way we view them.  in the beginning of NC and whilst my x was chasing / being chased by women i heard nothing.  when things didn't work out she contacted me.  then within two weeks she started dating a friend who was in a 7 year relationship.  once the latter was dissolved and they became girlfriends i've heard / recieved nothing again despite both of us breaking NC just before hand!

she knows i miss her! she knows i'm finding this difficult but shes moved on [fullstop] because the new partner has enabled her to do so: before hand i was useful, now i am not!

do i think shes sitting at home blaming me, missing me, wanting to hurt me & rub my nose in the fact that shes very happy and content and doesn't need me anymore... .NO i don't because i've been replaced.  shes with a women who appears stable etc etc etc so for now all of her needs are being met.  if the x had met someone who was messing her around i'm sure she wld contact me and be thinking of me, not because she genuinely misses me but because as always 'i'm the fall back girl'... .the one & only constant she has ever had!  my x has told people shes now thinking of settling down after knowing this girl for 2 months... .its obviously a very powerful union... .why on earth would she think of me! the x who triggers her, the x who loved & supported her, the x who got so frustrated she ended up acting like a fish wife!

BPD & PD in general take on many different forms & experiences.  there was a poll done recently on contact & i was shocked that a high number of NONs never hear from their x's ever again, they move on & never return & my belief is that this occurs if they are high functioning and move on to something stable.

i may of course be wrong... .but this is the pattern i've seen during the last 6 years.  As soon as my x found a new lady to chase she disappeared because she was emotionally ill / strained... .as soon as the new potential partner / relationship fizzled she always came back to me... .she always went from high chase to coming back home to me... .alcochoc was always the backup girl, picking up the crumbs ... .that is until i went NC - so in essence i'm trying to break that cycle... .although with her meeting a new SO it was going to happen anyway xxx

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avoidatallcost
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« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2012, 08:55:12 AM »

hello, alcochoc here xx

i personally don't think they 'think' of us at all! 

i think what i mean by this is that they don't think of us in the way we'd like or in the same way we view them. 

Totally agree with you on this one.  I think they do think of us sometimes, otherwise during the dozen or so breakups during our r/s she wouldn't have called me back to recycle me some more.  But I think in the end something clicks in their disordered brains and they decide to move on.  Usually, I think this "click" in their brains is the result of forging a good replacement.

there was a poll done recently on contact & i was shocked that a high number of NONs never hear from their x's ever again, they move on & never return & my belief is that this occurs if they are high functioning and move on to something stable.

This hit a note with me... it sure seems to be that way, that if they are high functioning they move on to something stable.  But don't they ultimately crave chaos?  Even if they're on meds or in therapy, I mean unless they're totally cured won't the BPD relationship cycle always play out in the end?

I have a feeling your ex's attempts to recycle you aren't quite over yet!
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NoMoSEP

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« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2012, 09:08:00 AM »

Can anyone else confirm this idea that the more you love the BP ex, the worse they treat you through their own experiences?

Yes, sadly I can confirm that. Once she was used to tell me how my sweetness was what made me so different and "special" to her.

But more recently, while at first she tried to sell me the picture of her "perfect" new relationship, here and there in the cracks of her tale, she let out that she considers the abusiveness and extreme jealousy of her new pal as "proof he care".

(things like "he said he's gonna shot me in the legs if I try to quit him", or "he wants me to leave the door open when I go to the bathroom" )

So now suddenly tenderness is oh-so-past-season-fashioned in her book? I don't think so, more likely it's a sign of her adaption to the different ways of her new soulmate.

Anyway it's difficult to tell if their other r/s are going better or worst, because it's probably heavily influenced by r/s dynamics (the "phase" they're in with their next prey... .if they're just starting, it's normal that things will seem to be rocking.

But does it really matter? Right now I'm feeling sad<=>angry, yet still wish her the best she can get... .the only thing I'm becoming sure day by day, is that I was not going to be able to save her soul, no matter how hard I tried. Time to save mine. And better luck to her new mate in saving both of theirs.
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GP44
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« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2012, 09:16:25 AM »

Excerpt
This hit a note with me... it sure seems to be that way, that if they are high functioning they move on to something stable.  But don't they ultimately crave chaos?  Even if they're on meds or in therapy, I mean unless they're totally cured won't the BPD relationship cycle always play out in the end?

My ex being high-functioning was and is continues to be one of the most confusing and painful aspects of the aftermath to me. The way she ended things was selfish, immature, cowardly, cruel, bizarre, etc... .but I wouldn't have characterized the relationship that way, aside from some weird and incongruent things she said towards the very end right before she blindsided me, statements that make you cock your head like a dog and say "Huh?"

It's been 16 months and aside from contacting me 3 months after the breakup to come collect her belongings, not a single peep out of her otherwise, nothing, not one phone call, text, email, etc. And so I assume that will never change, although people who went through a similar experience have warned me that contact may come at any time and to be prepared for it. But she held down a job and did pretty well at it to get promoted, she has a wide circle of friends, along with her own unique hobbies and interests. She had a very difficult childhood and told me about some of the things she did in early adulthood, such as excessive partying, drug abuse, but she had been clean for 5-6 years when we met. She didn't rage at me ever and is more of the waif type.

Maybe I will start a topic about the high-functioning ones. I have always thought of mental illness as the homeless guy talking to himself on a street corner. I dunno, my dad is an alcoholic, and in his old age he is no longer a functioning one, no longer capable of holding down a job and he couldn't live on his own and take care of himself if my mom decided to cast aside her codependency issues and leave him. But when I was a kid, he was certainly a high-functioning alcoholic, capable of confining his drinking to when he was not at work and more or less most of what he was supposed to do as a husband and father (hold down a job, do chores, run errands, etc). I have another friend of mine, I don't think she's BPD, but she has issues that make her bad relationship material. She's in her late thirties, has a high-paying job that she excels at, she is funny, smart and fun to hang out with and talk to. I've never seen this, but according to mutual friends she is a big fan of cocaine and she never seems to have a steady boyfriend, just a string of casual hookups or Friends with Benefits. From what I can tell her picker is bad. So she has it together in a lot of ways but from what I know about her, I would never attempt to date her.

The high-functioning thing is a hard thing to wrap your head around, when this chaos doesn't invade other areas of their life. Surely their BPD issues always deploy in serious, committed relationships until they decide to work on themselves through therapy and drugs? I know every relationship is unique in the chemistry it creates with two partners, and in some romantic encounters their BPD issues may never come into play (such as they meet somebody, and after a string of dates or casual dating over a few weeks or couple of months time, they just don't have a strong enough attraction or interest to continue things - in other words, some of the people they meet they don't get seriously involved with due to "Just Not That Into You".
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alcochoc
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« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2012, 09:22:27 AM »

I have a feeling your ex's attempts to recycle you aren't quite over yet!

smiling ! i posted yesterday that as someone who was terribly in love with my x, possibly addicted and a co-dependent of sorts... .the one thing i feared most in the world was her moving on to a significant over... .well thats actually happened so it is possible that my biggest fear is also the biggest factor in my recovery... .

i felt empty, had a void before i met her... .she filled that void but i spent my entire relationship full of anxiety, insecure and jealous ... .part of that was me part of that was reacting to the off behaviours / pushing & pulling.  One thing i've learnt in the last month or so from reading here is how i also failed the relationship... .i didn't have the healthy boundaries, i didn't express myself and kept it all bottled inside for fear of rejection, i didn't state my needs... .i became withdrawn & static but continued harder and harder to help her... .until i broke & was no longer desirable!  we finished & she didn't have a new partner to go to ... .unless we say internet dating etc etc was the nw love!

avoidatallcost... .she isn't coming back !
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avoidatallcost
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« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2012, 10:10:57 AM »

One thing i've learnt in the last month or so from reading here is how i also failed the relationship... .i didn't have the healthy boundaries, i didn't express myself and kept it all bottled inside for fear of rejection, i didn't state my needs... .i became withdrawn & static but continued harder and harder to help her... .until i broke & was no longer desirable!  

Don't feel bad about not setting boundaries.  I have read lots of the top books on this topic, like "I Hate You Don't Leave Me" and "Stop Walking On Eggshells" etc etc and to be honest, I had uknowingly tried a lot of the techniques they suggest you use.  For example, when my BP would get all crazy I would walk away.  This would stop her from raging at me, but a week later the rage would be about something else.  Or I would unknowingly try the SET technique, where I'd calmly tell my BP that I understood how she was feeling, I'd try to empathize with her, and tell her the truth about what was happening.  

NOTHING worked.  My "truth" was ALWAYS different from her "truth."  I tried calmly rationalizing my point of view.  Nothing worked at all.  See my thread "Why Are They So Good at Arguing?" for a more in-depth analysis about how no matter what you say or do with a BP, they will ALWAYS MANAGE TO SUCCESSFULLY AND EFFECTIVELY MINDF*CK YOU.  I am not a stupid guy, I argue with some of the best legal minds around for a living, and I still don't understand how my 24 year BP ex was so successful at shutting down all of my logic and rational arguments.   And even the few times when I could show her how unreasonable she was being, she would tell me things like "we're not in a relationship anyway this is too stressful for me" and "see this is why I am emotionally detached from you because we can't resolve our problems."  Being with this person and trying to have a "normal" loving committed relationship with her was by far the single most frustrating thing I have ever gone through in my entire life!

Setting boundaries also did not work.  For example, I would tell her that I could not be in a relationship with someone like her who insisted on seeing other people.  She would respond by telling me this is how she felt and if I didn't like it I could walk away.  And I never did.  My fault for staying of course, but the point is YOU CAN NEVER WIN WITH A BP.  Their disorder will always beat you no matter how right you are, no matter how much you have been wronged by the BP, and no matter how much you can prove to your BP that you are right and have been wronged.  BP's will eventually just trample all over any boundaries you may even try to set.  Their brains are disordered.  They will continue to make life difficult for you, no matter how normal you try to be.

They will simply accuse YOU of things like the belief that you are the victim, that you lack empathy, and a variety of other projections that in their eyes prove to them that YOU are in fact the one with BPD!
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used_up
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« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2012, 11:56:49 AM »

Different strokes, different folks. From my experience, it seemed to come down to how long the honeymoon period lasted. In her mind, if the honeymoon period could last a long, long time i.e. I was fawning all over her, then she treated me well and was 'happy'. As soon as the honeymoon period was over or there were cracks, in her mind, then it was game on, to find ways to either punish and abuse me in some way and/or try to push me to do things because she needed them at a particular time and in a particular way, to both retain control and sooth her into believing I wouldn't leave her or I still loved her.

She would push me onto the drama triangle in one role or another and if I didn't play, she would up the ante until she either hit melt down (Here, I come to save the day (rescuer)) or I broke (Why are you doing this? (persecutor)).

For whatever reason, to appeal to my competitiveness, prove I was "A better man" than her previous boyfriends etc. etc. she would use examples of previous relationships where the honeymoon period lasted for a long time (2+ years, allegedly). She even voiced early on that she 'expected' the honeymoon period to last a lonnnnnng time, you can guess my reply to that one. It was clear she knew that when the honeymoon period was over, her disorders would run riot because she would (make)believe all sorts of bad things, that I didn't love her, that I was having an affair etc. etc. when really, this natural phase, where you don't change who you are and you don't feel any different but you just ease off a little, get to know each other better and either accept the person for who they really are or realize that maybe you don't have enough in common emotionally, intellectually etc. etc. is just the next step in the relationship. Emotional maturity and any issues you're holding onto, will determine the outcome.

So I think it's down to how long they can get us to stay in that honeymoon period and keep themselves there, so in that sense, there might be a perception that they are treating someone better, the new partner, but they won't remain in that phase forever and exit when they aren't secure, no matter what you tell them (feelings come before facts for a borderline), so it doesn't matter what you do and you can't keep up the level of emotional intensity forever, which is why it's a phase. If they sense their partner may make an early exit or if there's some other trigger where they aren't secure any more, they will start lining people up and make an early exit themselves. In shorter relationships, this may appear as though they treated that partner better, because there's less time for abuse and equally in longer relationships where the honeymoon period lasted a long time, the same could apply.

From talking to a handful of her previous boyfriends (lucky situation to be able to do that) after we split-up, all of us were abused equally, eventually, just in slightly different ways, depending on the weaknesses we exposed. My relationship with her was the shortest but she made sure that the longer I stayed, the more she abused me, as soon as the honeymoon phase ended and she started turning feelings into facts, so I got out before it got worse after a really nasty set of events. Did she treat some of us better than others? Hard to say and hard to tell but a 5 year relationship with one guy meant so much that she'd been setting the next guy up and jumped beds to him within 2 weeks of the 5 year relationship ending and did exactly the same thing to me when her next relationship exited the honeymoon period (the things you find out later... .).

She just seems to use every relationship to try to cover up her disorders in more ingenious ways and keep her partner in the honeymoon phase for as long as possible, as that gives her the fantasy and security she needs but all she manages to do, in the best scenario she can hope to achieve, is to delay the inevitable. The wheels come off eventually.

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Undertowed
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« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2012, 12:35:06 PM »

Your words just reminded me of what I forgot... .he never changed and will never change

I will take your advice and read the other boards and listen to the voice of logic

You are very brave that you were able to take the reign of control over the sheer madness... .I hope things will get better for you over time... .   

I think you have to reframe what's going on here.  It may not be that you are finding the thought of an illness free life with him irresistible.  You may be reacting not thinking.  You may be having an instant reaction to run back because he/that relationship distracts you from other deeper problems you will do anything to avoid.  If you can figure out what you are trying to avoid, the desire for him will go away and you will see him clearly.
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« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2012, 01:03:11 PM »

It was clear she knew that when the honeymoon period was over, her disorders would run riot because she would (make)believe all sorts of bad things, that I didn't love her, that I was having an affair etc. etc. when really, this natural phase, where you don't change who you are and you don't feel any different but you just ease off a little,... .

So I think it's down to how long they can get us to stay in that honeymoon period and keep themselves there, so in that sense, there might be a perception that they are treating someone better, the new partner, but they won't remain in that phase forever and exit when they aren't secure, no matter what you tell them (feelings come before facts for a borderline), so it doesn't matter what you do and you can't keep up the level of emotional intensity forever, which is why it's a phase. 

This was a brilliant breakdown!  The moment that falling in love high stops, the crazy starts until it grinds the relationship into dust.
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BentNotBroken
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« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2012, 03:03:29 PM »

I believe that my BPDexgf thought of me quite often, but only as a possession, to be used and discarded when she was done using me. Once I became too physically ill to constantly cater to her "needs" , whims etc, it was time to get rid of me. I found out recently that she paid a hefty sum for a 3 month membership to an online dating site 9 days after I moved out (in accordance with her demands). Most of my personal belongings, clothes, tools, etc were still in the house. She was raving/raging about how broke she is, but found the $150 for the dating site. Looking for a new man 9 days after a 15+ year relationship ended tells me I truly was nothing more than a disposable object to her and she definitely is a true BPD.

It actually still makes me retch a little bit when I think of how easy it was for her to discard me once I couldn't keep jumping through hoops for her. At this point I don't really care that she has a mental illness, I think she be locked away in an institution for the good of society before she harms anyone else, especially our infant son.
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avoidatallcost
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« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2012, 03:15:59 PM »

At this point I don't really care that she has a mental illness, I think she be locked away in an institution for the good of society before she harms anyone else, especially our infant son.

At least I'm not the only one who thinks BP's should be locked up to prevent them from hurting more innocent people.  I'd like to do research on just how responsible BP's are for their own actions.  I know from reading all the books and stories about BP's that they are all too similar for this to not be a serious mental disorder that BP's may not have much control over.

But I still can't get over the fact that, when my BP really needed me for something, she could be exceptionally sweet and actually manage to act "normal."  Doesn't this point to the fact that they do indeed have control over the way they act? 
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Tazmo7521
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« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2012, 05:54:43 PM »

I think many people misconstrue emotional intelligence (EQ) with actual intelligence (IQ).  The BPD may have the EQ of a 3 year old, but the IQ of a highly intelligent adult.  They may not be able to regulate their emotions, but may be intelligent enough to plot and scheme their way to their desires. 

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avoidatallcost
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« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2012, 06:09:57 PM »

They may not be able to regulate their emotions, but may be intelligent enough to plot and scheme their way to their desires.  

No other sentence in the English language describes my BP ex as well and as succinctly as this one does.
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« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2012, 07:25:52 PM »

I can personally vouch for this.

After a fight in which I said I was done. I left to go to my parents for a couple days to clear my head. The next day dxBPDgf went to one of my unactivated Chase credit cards with a $9000 limit and in 24 hours ran up $5k in debt.  I wouldn't have known about it except for a fraud notice on my email.

Her name was not on the credit card nor did she had authorization. She perpetuated identity theft and fraud on me by posing as me. She rerouted all correspondence with the credit card company through her email. The only thing she didn't catch was that Chase already had my personal email on file. She also admitted that she was going to hide the statement from me. When I caught her the retort was, "I was going to pay you back" through sheets of tears. I knew better.  I filed a police report on her and told her if she didn't go the hospital, I was going to press charges.

She knew what she was doing.  In my case, dxBPDgf was intent on her wants and desires with zero care of the damage she did to me and the consequences her actions would forever have.

Dipping close to psychosis, she was a unsafe to be around. I couldn't believe a human being whom in the idealization phase seemed to have a good heart would steal behind my back and not feel an ounce of remorse.

What does this say about me not being able to sense that she'd do this?

If their perceived survival is at stake, they have no compunction in plotting and scheming to meet their immediate needs. No matter what destruction it leaves behind.

P.S. I too, believe they can be tremendously detrimental and in some cases, a danger to their children.  Aside from the emotional neglect, if the children speak about it, it may fall on unbelieving ears. The emotional and psychological scars on the kids are terrible. It's frustrating that the system does not want to acknowledge the insidiousness of what BPDs can do to their children.

I think many people misconstrue emotional intelligence (EQ) with actual intelligence (IQ).  The BPD may have the EQ of a 3 year old, but the IQ of a highly intelligent adult.  They may not be able to regulate their emotions, but may be intelligent enough to plot and scheme their way to their desires.  

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push pull
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« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2012, 06:35:23 PM »

Excerpt
I can say... the more I loved her and harder I tried to be a perfect "soul mate", she cared less about me... and the harder I tried to keep my boundaries and be myself and went on distance she was interested in me again... Just to bad, that a long-distance relationship until the end of my life is not what I prefer... A no-win situation.

This is 100% what I experienced. The thing is, there's no real love when both of you can't connect, so when I withdrew from her and she was all over me, it didn't feel like we were genuinely connecting in the way a normal couple should do. Then when I reciprocated the affection, she withdrew and her attraction levels for me completely dropped. It was not long after that I'd find myself in dumpsville wondering what the hell I did wrong.

It's hard not to reciprocate affection when someone you love is being affectionate towards you. It feels like the BPD does this on purpose to set you up for a fall. It's like, they invoke feelings of love and warmth within you, which then makes you want to be the same with them, but as soon as you do, they begin to pull away. Then they begin to emasculate you for not "behaving like a real man".


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« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2012, 07:22:56 PM »

Excerpt
I can say... the more I loved her and harder I tried to be a perfect "soul mate", she cared less about me... and the harder I tried to keep my boundaries and be myself and went on distance she was interested in me again... Just to bad, that a long-distance relationship until the end of my life is not what I prefer... A no-win situation.

This is 100% what I experienced. The thing is, there's no real love when both of you can't connect, so when I withdrew from her and she was all over me, it didn't feel like we were genuinely connecting in the way a normal couple should do. Then when I reciprocated the affection, she withdrew and her attraction levels for me completely dropped. It was not long after that I'd find myself in dumpsville wondering what the hell I did wrong.

It's hard not to reciprocate affection when someone you love is being affectionate towards you. It feels like the BPD does this on purpose to set you up for a fall. It's like, they invoke feelings of love and warmth within you, which then makes you want to be the same with them, but as soon as you do, they begin to pull away. Then they begin to emasculate you for not "behaving like a real man".

Yep... .I went through the same push and pull dance... .it spins you out of control and leaves you very dizzy and confused
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« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2012, 08:22:37 PM »

I just found an email my stbx sent to her cousin today.  She signed with her name.  In all of the correspondence I've had w/her in the last 1.5 years, she has never said Dear XXX or anything.

I think it is a matter of respecting outsiders more than their kids or SOs...   They have friends and family, but the friends don't live with them and thus don't see the real BPD in action.  They can get away with murder, but as long as it isn't revealed to the public, you the non are disrespected, treated w/contempt and hated.

BTW she never mentioned a word about me or the pending divorce.  WTH?  More secrecy.
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« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2012, 10:29:04 PM »

Excerpt
Re: Is It Possible They Treat Some Partners Better Than Others

The people that stay do not get treated better than those that leave.  Certain personalities continue to return over and over again to interact with a Borderline due to their own childhood issues. People stay in abusive situations because they are vaguely familiar with the voicelessness from childhood which they have repressed. The Borderline becomes a cipher that unlocks that Pandora's Box of memories. This person, the attachment, is a Fata Morgana.

For many people, a failed attachment to a Borderline gives them a mystery to solve. This can keep some people in obsessive engagement. Are they being treated better? No. There are no happy endings here.  A friendship or relationship with a Borderline can also give people exactly what they secretly feel they deserve but outwardly deny. They will return over and over again to attempt to extract their self esteem from the Borderline attachment. None of this is healthy.

This is a disorder. Stop thinking that "some partners" are better equipped to handle it. No one is above the disorder. It affects all who come in contact with it.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #49 on: February 16, 2012, 10:45:36 PM »

Excerpt
Re: Is It Possible They Treat Some Partners Better Than Others

The people that stay do not get treated better than those that leave.  Certain personalities continue to return over and over again to interact with a Borderline due to their own childhood issues. People stay in abusive situations because they are vaguely familiar with the voicelessness from childhood which they have repressed. The Borderline becomes a cipher that unlocks that Pandora's Box of memories. This person, the attachment, is a Fata Morgana.

For many people, a failed attachment to a Borderline gives them a mystery to solve. This can keep some people in obsessive engagement. Are they being treated better? No. There are no happy endings here.  A friendship or relationship with a Borderline can also give people exactly what they secretly feel they deserve but outwardly deny. They will return over and over again to attempt to extract their self esteem from the Borderline attachment. None of this is healthy.

This is a disorder. Stop thinking that "some partners" are better equipped to handle it. No one is above the disorder. It affects all who come in contact with it.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

2010 -- I am REALLY intrigued by your post. And I think there is a wealth of knowledge in it that I could really benefit from. But truth be told, your explanation is way above my intelligence level. I read your post several times... .But I'm not fully comprehending it... .Would you mind expanding on those thoughts in layman's terms? Please? Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2012, 03:22:14 AM »

Whether you like it or not, this person is bringing a hidden (repressed) core wound to the surface. Questioning this, even in denial, is natural. Some people are very controlled because most of their childhood was out of control. Children adapt to inconsistency for their survival. They become either very, very good or very, very bad in response to powerful adults.

As adults, this childhood adaptation is what is mirrored by a Borderline. When that adaptation no longer serves us for consistent and appropriate behavior-due to the chaos of Borderline beliefs, we begin to question it. "Wasn't I good enough?"  Engaging in a fight for understanding is what most of this battle is all about.

Inappropriate behavior must have a reason and we struggle to make sense of it in a way that we couldn’t as children. This mystery is what binds us to the Borderline and guarantees our participation in the disorder, which only keeps us involved in acquiring more misunderstandings. In effect, our adult self is re-working our childhood adaptations with a new stand-in and what a dilemma!

The old patterns of adaptation must now be revised. This can be very upsetting to people who worked so hard to repress the earlier childhood trauma with a structured "false self." The false self was what you thought would protect you from harm. It's also exactly the same reason why a Borderline partner is the perfect guarantee for bringing the core wound to the surface where it festers because the false self is failing to protect the true, core self from abandonment.  What you did in the past is no longer working. Being "good" is now working against you.

Trying to overcome Borderline disorder- is really a process of understanding the Borderline's initial mirroring of your false self. The false self says, "I'm good." The Borderline mirrors this good. The false self then congratulates itself for success-and broadcasts a projective identification of displaced good onto the Borderline.  This is a fusional quality where two people now feel like one and one of the reasons why these relationships are so difficult to disentangle from. The Borderline clings to the false self, then hates it. The false self panics and tries to be good again, at the expense of the true self's preservation, but the relationship decays into a push/pull battle for the initially mirrored, false good.  Both people suffer from core abandonment issues and annihilation fears but one is desperately trying to bear the weight of both people.

Although painful, the failed relationship is necessary to learn from and expand on for personal growth.  The core wound can be repaired and healed if the childhood pattern is explored and understood. Who does this person remind you of? The answer will probably change several times until it returns to a ghost-like parent. Once you realize these feelings are familiar but repressed, you can begin to process of releasing them during the abandonment depression. That is, if you leave this person. Your other choice is to hang on and continue the fight.

There comes a time when we all have to realize that the relationship we are struggling with is due to our own wishful thinking for childhood acceptance. Just like in BPD, thoughts can become beliefs. When our beliefs are so strong- yet, unsuited to personal happiness, we must discard them and replace them with new beliefs. This is the bulk of your work in the aftermath of a failed relationship, especially with someone who cuts so deeply into your core wound. We must understand the reasons why we became involved with a dramatic and erratic person who had as many ideas about who we were as we had about them. Maybe who we were has changed in the aftermath and now we can see clearly what needs to mature.  The repressed pain is at the surface and hurts, but rather than repress it again- you've got to delve into it. You can't delve into pain while simultaneously searching for the good reflection from your Borderline partner. Borderline personality disorder is a persecution complex. All you are going to find is a professional victim. Let go.

Boundaries are necessary to distance ourselves from people who don't share our healthier beliefs or who might have (with their own unhealthy belief systems) taught us to disbelieve ourselves.  This means stopping the dysfunction and discovering the emotions and sadness within that really are being medicated with your anger. As children we weren't allowed to express disappointment. Now, we can. But the disappointment is posed to who you think you are, not who you think your partner is.  Your partner only mirrored your false self.  Your sadness needs to be allowed as you let go of outdated beliefs about who you are and turn your focus to your true persona, the one who is scared and alone. That child has a need to be understood and deserves a pat on the back. Stop being distracted by trying to fix a broken mirror. Help that child.

It all begins with letting go of trying to control others and turning the focus to ourselves.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

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« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2012, 08:51:31 AM »

Wow 2010 - Thank you! What a great post. I'm going to have to read it several more times -- there is so much info in there. I think I get your overall point though. Thank you again. Looks like I've got a lot of work to do on me. Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2012, 09:58:28 AM »

'Looks like I've got a lot of work to do on me'

You and several more of us G.J Smiling (click to insert in post)

2010 - very interesting post. I wonder if you could elaborate why the Borderline 'hates' the false self so much. I broke NC under fairly controlled circumstances recently, and have been surprised by the apparent hatred my former partner now has towards me, even though I treated her like a princess for a year and a half and walked away from the abusive relationship when she asked me to.
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« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2012, 11:31:24 AM »

hmmm, heres a thought that just came to my mind reading this thread.

I can understand that we want to think they will treat there new partner the same as they treated us, as though clarifying to ourselves that the Ex is truly BPD/PD.

As i was reading the thread though it came to mind that the partner that they are now with are not us, they could be very much us in terms of personality etc or they could be complete opposites of us.

Does thinking there partner is better looking than you have any grounds to sway our thoughts?

Does knowing there partner is actually that not much of looker/isnt a great catch in terms of looks have any grounds to sway our thoughts?

Either way, there partner is not us.

For me personally... .

My ex is with someone i wouldnt call much of a catch, hes a decent fella but not much of a looker.

I consider him very similar to me in personality, seems quite a funny guy, caring, loving but a more docile version of me. Hes pretty much bald on top, has his belly showing in terms of a beer belly.

I questioned myself WTf was she thinking tbh! but it was her choice and i wished her all the best and him also.

Maybe the fact hes more tolerant/docile and just goes along with the random madness.

Hes not been in a serious relationship before so dont believe he would have any knowledge of random madness and its effects, hes in the stage where he either still see's it as normal life for him or just recently is when the bomb droppped for him.

So for me it comes down to the personality and experience in relationships of the ex's new partner/s to how long they would last.

Im also in the frame of mind that my high functioning ex wants to make this look like the perfect partnership and make it last as long as possible.

With a mate so docile and willing im sure theres another 3 or 4 years left in him yet.

In perspective, if we become the new partner to someone who possibly has a PD in some way then we have the knowledge now to make our decision to try and play the game or get the hell out.

Those that dont have our knowledge will be the next victim/new member here or they may never realise  or have what is considered a normal, loving and mutual relationship.

Phew, hope that makes sense.

Had along day at work and just split open a can Smiling (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2012, 03:59:30 PM »

I have spoken with both her previous partner before me and the one who came after me. Both of them expressed the same frustrations with her that I did.

She attempted to recycle me and I found out that she had been cheating on her current partner, with me, for the entire duration of their relationship. A LOT was discovered in that time and I am now counting my lucky stars about the bullet I dodged.

During that time I talked with her current partner (they got back together after I refused to deal with her crap). She had been treating him like dirt, yet he went right back to her and just accepted all her cheating - mindboggling.

I don't think they treat other partners any better than they treated us. Depending on the reactions of the partner, it will just be different types of abuse. I was always pretty stubborn about my boundaries so the fights got progressively worse and just blew up in a big way.

I was very lucky with timing and her attempt to recycle me, that I got to speak with her partner. He said some very nasty things about her and she expressed that she had no desire to continue a relationship with him. Which makes me just feel sorry for both of them.
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« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2012, 09:17:53 AM »

I'm glad you had the chance to speak to ex partners. I believe that it's all about them so the treatment of others is irrelevant in many ways. They will always be a handful until they get help. Mine kept everything under lock and key. Her phone was always out of sight or turned off. I was rarely allowed on her computer except to load music. I got negative and unusual stories about her parents and second hand gossip that made no sense. It was like she was setting me up to fail in their eyes a long time before we broke up. The ex never spoke to me and I didn't get his number either. The end for me was about standing up for me. I was very frustrated and this showed her that I had really got to the end of my patience. She never returned and filed an RO on me. She also broke up with her ex before me the same way. They were both false and exaggerated and given to her very easily. It was the ultimate insult and she used her/our children as excuses in both cases. I also saw it as a blessing. I feel for anyone caught up in her shallow childish schemes and grandiose power plays. She has been away from me almost two years and I am happy with that. Hoping she is NPD and doesn't return after the order is lifted. Would that be too good to be true?
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« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2012, 09:41:29 AM »

That child has a need to be understood and deserves a pat on the back.

2010... .thank you!  I always look for your posts.  This one, in particular, has resonated profoundly to me.  All you've stated has struct me in a very familiar manner, but the portion quoted above caused a bout of tears.  

Until this journey, I'd never thought of myself as a lonely child, abandoned, and unheard. Since being unheard and invalidated was a common occurence, I learned to do... .I learned that if I did something for my mother, she would show her love for me. I recall, at the tiny age of 5, picking wild flowers/weeds for hours, obsessing on which she would prefer.  When I would present this bouquet, she would loudly pronounce how wonderful I was; that was the only time... .all other times, I was told to go away and behave.  This picking of flowers continued into adulthood... .I did for her, and all others.  I expected love... .recognition of the "good" in me.  It always worked... .until now... .until BPD.

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« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2012, 10:15:18 AM »

Can anyone else confirm this idea that the more you love the BP ex, the worse they treat you through their own experiences?

No... .The rule is that the more you feel you need them, the more they can use you.
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« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2012, 10:30:25 AM »

Can anyone else confirm this idea that the more you love the BP ex, the worse they treat you through their own experiences?

In my experience... .he treated me worse when he recognized that I was 'in" for the long-haul. He felt engulfed, he felt that he would have to give of himself; lose control, divulge who he really was.  His self core/identity is almost non-existent (as he perceives), and to give that up spins him into self-perservation.

It matters not, they treat you well one day because they feel unsure of your love, they treat you badly the next because they are sure.  Conversely, they treat you badly because you leave them, as they stalk and abuse you, then treat you well for a tiny bit, until you are back 'in-the-pocket".  Push/pull behavior is at play here.

My take

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« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2012, 03:13:12 PM »

This is 100% what I experienced. The thing is, there's no real love when both of you can't connect, so when I withdrew from her and she was all over me, it didn't feel like we were genuinely connecting in the way a normal couple should do. Then when I reciprocated the affection, she withdrew and her attraction levels for me completely dropped. It was not long after that I'd find myself in dumpsville wondering what the hell I did wrong.

It's hard not to reciprocate affection when someone you love is being affectionate towards you. It feels like the BPD does this on purpose to set you up for a fall. It's like, they invoke feelings of love and warmth within you, which then makes you want to be the same with them, but as soon as you do, they begin to pull away. Then they begin to emasculate you for not "behaving like a real man".

I noticed during our relationship.

At first she was crazily "in to me". All over me like a rash, constantly. It just seemed kind of strange to me, because she barely knew me, but I just went with it. I became REALLY in to her. Boom, we swapped positions. She quickly started becoming emotionally abusive, I wouldn't have a bar of it. She threatened to break up, I called her bluff. We swapped positions again - she commented on this during one of her "loved up" phases, that I had turned the tables on her. As I slowly grew to trust her again, trusting she'd gone through a short "phase", I began to love her wholeheartedly again. Boom, we swapped positions again.

This time, instead of having healthy boundaries, I just trusted she would "come right". She didn't. The harder I tried, and expressed love for her, the more anger and emotional episodes I got in response. Until it completely boiled over - one night I had just "had enough" and stopped walking on eggshells. I told her that emotionally, she treated me worse than my father ever had (I had an abusive alcoholic father). The relationship exploded. ONE DAY later, she told a new man she loved him. ONE DAY.
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