What's wrong with us?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I've said that a few times on threads but as I learn more and read hundreds of posts, the question is like a neon sign.  "What is wrong with us that stay stuck or take forever to or never move on after a BPD relationship"?  It's like a tracker beam from a star wars movie, We do all the work and when it's not enough, instead of saying its them, we work harder in order to please them.  They're poor communicators, don't want to read books to learn about relationships, resist therapy to a very high degree, act childish and we forgive them, some get cheated on and they get forgiven(didn't happen to me I don't think), the chances we give them are unlimited and they move on with us having spent years, countless energy or money and our heart and it's just a new day for them and once they're gone, the vast majority stay gone or only contact to screw with our minds.  There are a lot of smart educated people on this forum who have just gotten their ass kicked by a BPD and now have lost a significant part of their heart, soul, energy and desire for another relationship.  I include  myself.  What is wrong with us?

[Bo123]

I've said that a few times on threads but as I learn more and read hundreds of posts, the question is like a neon sign.  "What is wrong with us that stay stuck or take forever to or never move on after a BPD relationship"?  It's like a tracker beam from a star wars movie, We do all the work and when it's not enough, instead of saying its them, we work harder in order to please them.  They're poor communicators, don't want to read books to learn about relationships, resist therapy to a very high degree, act childish and we forgive them, some get cheated on and they get forgiven(didn't happen to me I don't think), the chances we give them are unlimited and they move on with us having spent years, countless energy or money and our heart and it's just a new day for them and once they're gone, the vast majority stay gone or only contact to screw with our minds.  There are a lot of smart educated people on this forum who have just gotten their ass kicked by a BPD and now have lost a significant part of their heart, soul, energy and desire for another relationship.  I include  myself.  What is wrong with us?

[Zen606]

Hi Bo,
I do not think nothing is especially wrong with us. We are just human and if we don't know the signs of BPD because we have not had the experience before with these folks, we don't seem to know what we got hit with until its too late. 

Someone said that BPD/trait folks have  an uncanny was of motivating the non-BPD/trait partner to work on themselves once the relationship is over. I have had this very experience and I feel like I am embarking on a renaissance.  This positive movement may occur because the BPD/trait person touches our core issues of relationship attachment and loss in such a significant way that we must move toward our own child healing. So pain from these folks, yes, but remember the silver lining that clouds have.

Zen606

[I_Am_The_Fire]

I agree with Zen606. I don't think there is anything "wrong" with us.

I'm reading a book recommended to me by my therapist called "The Betrayal Bond" by Patrick Carnes that may help. It goes along with what Zen mentioned. Some of us may get stuck because we have trauma in our past that we haven't dealt with. I think this book explains it very well so far. Healing is not an easy process and takes time. Sometimes it's so painful that we tend to avoid it.

[Zen606]

Hi I Am the Fire-
Thank you so much for the reading recommendation, I just ordered it. I am in therapy working on the attachment issues  resulting from being raised by a bp trait mom. Will be reading understanding the borderline mother as part of that process and your recommendation fits in very well!

Thank you!
Zen606   

[Mutt]

That’s a good question  o123, there is a good article right here on the site along the lines of what Zen606 said about soothing unresolved emotional wounds.

From idealization to devaluation - why we struggle

There’s an excellent technical breakdown of the r/s between the non and pwBPD by poster 2010. The member is very knowledgeable with the disorder I read a lot of that members posts as part of the healing process. I hope that helps.

[EdR]

That’s a good question  o123, there is a good article right here on the site along the lines of what Zen606 said about soothing unresolved emotional wounds.

From idealization to devaluation - why we struggle

There’s an excellent technical breakdown of the r/s between the non and pwBPD by poster 2010. The member is very knowledgeable with the disorder I read a lot of that members posts as part of the healing process. I hope that helps.

Hi Bo! I really love the post of 2010 Mutt is referring to. Everyone on these boards should have read it.
It basically describes my entire situation. It completely fits with my 2 major experiences with a pwBPD.

However... .alhough the quality of that post is of an extremely high level, there have also been some problems with the thread in itself for me. And that's a shame, because the post is really, really good.

My problems:
-) 2010 eventually says we were actually in love with ourselves during the r/s. That's perhaps partially true due to the projection the pwBPD uses, but it feels like an oversimplification. I do not believe everything about our r/s was just a projected image by the pwBPD. Just like any great actor, a lot of their actions and feelings they showed us are hyperboles of what lives inside them. But those actions/feelings DID come from within.
-) the post of 2010 leads to some questions, but 2010 did not participate in the thread apart from that 1 awesome post.
-) the roles and schemas described in the thread are really useful, but it gets a little tricky because the NON is pushed into the NPD spectrum. Try not to let that lead you astray. It is quite hard to swallow that even the most extreme caretaker is put into the NPD spectrum and I personally doubt that to be true. So try to use the provided info without focussing on the labels themselves.
-) the major factor in all of this, is that the thread provides awareness. Another tool to understand what is going on.
Dealing with the actual feelings of the lonely child or abandoned child is something else entirely.
-) eventually the labels are so often used that it is hard to ignore them anymore. And that might lead you to doubt almost everything you thought you knew after reading 2010's post. You REALLY felt you were the lonely child, but at some point (after tests, but especially when the caretaker role is described as a coping mechanisms of the ABANDONED child) you will see the abandoned child could at least partially fit you as well.

So, in conclusion: the post of 2010  is really, really great. But try not to focus too much on the labels and somewhat oversimplification of theory.

[once removed]

questions like "what is wrong with me", "what is broken about me", "why am i not good enough" are the voice of low self esteem. generally, its not a helpful, productive voice. it plagues a lot of us in the aftermath of our relationships. we often sooth it by flipping the script on our partners and painting them black.

when we become more self aware of ourselves, our strengths, weaknesses, limitations, generally what makes us tick, and explore where we can improve, i think its invaluable, if we want to go on to have healthier relationships, and the members i have seen heal and live better lives tend to find those things, and take the bull by the horns.

this also tends to be less painful (less self blame involved) in later stages of detachment. nearly seven years out of my relationship, i can tell you that in many ways my ex and i were on par and both brought a lot of dysfunction into our relationship and our own lives. i can tell you i was emotionally immature. i can tell you i had a lot of growing and self improvement to do if i wanted to change my life and my relationships. none of that causes me any regret today, but in the throes of the aftermath of the breakup, it would have been pretty hard to swallow, and even if it wasnt, it would have been hard to see. i found that my relationship forced my eyes open, and left me without excuses from then on.

i was the problem. thats not to say i was a bad person. its not to say i was a broken person. its to say i was responsible for where i was at. its to say from then on, i had to be the solution.

people with BPD have inherently low relationship skills. generally speaking, people with high level relationship skills dont get involved in protracted dysfunctional, unhealthy relationships, and contribute to that dysfunction in the process. thats a broad statement, and what it means for us as individuals differs.

My problems:
-) 2010 eventually says we were actually in love with ourselves during the r/s. That's perhaps partially true due to the projection the pwBPD uses, but it feels like an oversimplification. I do not believe everything about our r/s was just a projected image by the pwBPD. Just like any great actor, a lot of their actions and feelings they showed us are hyperboles of what lives inside them. But those actions/feelings DID come from within.

... .

-) the roles and schemas described in the thread are really useful, but it gets a little tricky because the NON is pushed into the NPD spectrum. Try not to let that lead you astray. It is quite hard to swallow that even the most extreme caretaker is put into the NPD spectrum and I personally doubt that to be true. So try to use the provided info without focussing on the labels themselves.

i think these are all good points, and id like to expound upon them a bit.

i always found the notion that we "fell in love with ourselves" to be more than a little convenient. it sounds to me like a comforting way to pat ourselves on the back after we get dumped. it dehumanizes our exes and ignores the things that made them human, the things that attracted us, the things we loved about them, which i believe are essential to mourn the loss of, as well as to honor.

i do not have NPD, but i did a fair amount of reading about narcissism in the aftermath of my relationship. i read up on things like "narcissistic wounds", and the kinds of manifestations of narcissism that i think 2010 was talking about. in a technical sense, everyone is on the NPD spectrum, which is not necessarily to say "everyone has NPD (or another personality disorder) traits". much like we are all somewhere on the planet earth, we are all on a spectrum of personality traits and behaviors. a personality disorder is just a pinpoint that is higher on a given spectrum. so we all have levels of narcissism - there is healthy narcissism, "normal" narcissism, less healthy narcissism, very unhealthy narcissism.

so having said that, lets take "we fell in love with ourselves" at face value and assume its true. what does it mean? is it healthy? are our romantic partners and loved ones just extensions of ourselves? rhetorical questions, but for someone with NPD, the answer to the last question might be "yes"; for someone who doesnt have NPD, but has a certain level of narcissism, the answer might be "sort of".

2010 had another post that spoke of being dependent upon excessive mirroring from others that really hit home for me, and if theres any truth to the notion that we "fell in love with ourselves", i think that is what it speaks to, and it does have to do with "little n" narcissism. it also doesnt mean "im awesome". it means "i need my partner to reassure me that i am awesome". everyone needs that to some extent (its also important to point out that mirroring is a healthy behavior that facilitates bonding, and the mirroring that our parental figures did or didnt do lent itself to us building identities), but to what extent do each of us need it? and what happened to each of us when it stopped, when we heard criticisms, when we were, in whatever way, told that we werent good enough?

i think thats the point of "from idealization to devaluation - why we struggle".

[MeandThee29]

I saw my counsellor today, so I'm somewhat ruminating on the session as part of the answer to the question. Today she hit on some very deep attitudes that I developed in my childhood and how they drove me in the wrong direction in this crisis. I prefer not to say more than that about what we worked on today. She sent me home with some worksheets that I filled out with her that were really tough to discuss.

It's tough because I'm having to rework a lifetime of patterns as I work through the losses in my childhood and the loss of my marriage. That's most of my life. Lots and lots of trauma bonding.

Some of it will always be there, but I'm feeling better and see many better days ahead. She outlined her plans for sessions in 2018, and we should be winding down by summer to just as-needed sessions. I'll still be broken and patched up some, but better.

[Bo123]

Once removed:  Thanks for moving it, you were right its doing better here.  My title of "What's wrong with us" could have been better worded.  Low self esteem you are correct is related to many issues, I should have worded it to reflect my real issue is why the average normal relationship person who gets hooked up with a BPD has such a problem getting over it and moving on/finding closure.  Break-ups in my past all combined don't equal the complexity, hidden manipulation that a BPD break-up does.  Add to that I didn't know she was BPD until after the 1.5 year break-up, co-workers didn't know, she excelled at almost everything, PhD, friends didn't know, they thought I was crazy, she was mild BPD, rarely moderate and 98% only around me.  Took 2 years into the relationship to get her close friends to even acknowledge some of the things she was doing.  Never felt manipulated and no one would believe this sweetheart was even capable of that but she manipulated me for years.  This was my 1st experience with BPD and my last, its a killer and even the professionals say its one of the toughest to work with.  Worst relationship ever in the end for me, and that never happened before, but then again no previous gf was BPD.  Their actions stick to your mind like super glue, even with a great life and high esteem and VIP high demand career.  You have a ton of experience, would like to hear more from you!

[once removed]

my real issue is why the average normal relationship person who gets hooked up with a BPD has such a problem getting over it and moving on/finding closure. 

i think why we struggle is less about BPD or others, and about us uniquely; it differs for everyone, though there are a lot of commonalities.

youre doing the smart thing to try and find how it applies to you. keep searching, keep digging, and youll find it; when you find it, youll know, and it will be something you can take on your journey.

[Bo123]

Once removed:  I would have to add to your wisdom by saying that for someone who doesn't have a history of bad relationships or disorders in the family or previously dated someone who does, BPD is like Carbon Monoxide, it's an insidious poison.  That doesn't come from with us, it was within her, I didn't catch it, 2 counselor's in a pre-marital week long package didn't catch it.  A large a Carbon Monoxide will instantly give you signs something is wrong and you take action, my lovely BPD was so well loved by everyone and high functioning and the release of CO was so slow that you don't notice it( it kills people in their sleep).  Point being,  I would not likely catch a slow CO build-up in my home and I didn't catch her BPD until it was way too late but the damage was done.  I feel sorry for anyone with a disorder and try to keep that in mind, but never have I had such an issue moving on, and I had plenty of reasons to do so.  I wasn't so in love I couldn't leave.  I'm not co-dependent. I just see the commonality of how most BPD's operate and its unlike anything I have ever seen.  The moodiness, 100%good/100%bad, silent manipulation, presenting themselves perfectly to the world and taking it out on you, super resistant to T, books on it, talking to their pries even if they are very religious and when they make the break, its over near 0% chance of a friendship and little chance of future contact and if there is, its cryptic and mostly self-serving.  My gf was a good person, good heart and we had a lot of fun, but the price you pay for dating a BPD is a complex web that over a few years, changes your thinking/thought patterns for the worse and that's why this site is here, it is hell trying to move on, get closure and undo the unsolvable Rubik's Cube they have silently put in your mind or that ends up there by osmosis from being with them.  So what did I learn?  Is that a BPD can quietly cause more pain and suffering than all previous break-up's combined, even being cheated on once, and have screwed with your head, unintentially I think in my case, but none the less did major damage.  It was like getting struck by lightning in December on a clear blue sky day.  The odds of anyone doing that much damage in so many ways is very rare and BPD has to be the reason.  T at PhD and MFT levels for a 2nd opinion came to the same conclusion and ruled out any childhood issues that may have made me more likely to be affected.  I lived the American dream as far as education, career, relationships, finance, retired with a unheard of pension nowadays at age 45, never have to work again, yet a 3 year relationship, 1 year engaged and a 1.5 year break-up has brought that all to a halt.  I'm not the only one who's been affected in this way.  It's BPD.

Appreciate you being a Moderator and all the help you have given people, your # of posts show how much you care.  Thanks

[once removed]

Bo, id be careful in forming a narrative about BPD based on the stories you read here. there are many people that get involved in a relationship with someone with BPD, or BPD traits, and step out of the relationship when things start getting messy. what you read here are stories of spurned lovers and broken hearts, who are struggling for a multitude of reasons. ive detailed some of mine, there are many more. likewise, there are many on the Improving board that have been through what you and i have, and in some cases more, and turned their relationships around.

is it your position that her mild personality disorder is the reason that you are struggling a year and a half after the breakup?

[Duped 1]

Good Post Envision-

Although some of my past relationships weren't great, I'm not sure any of them would really be considered unhealthy other than my marriage maybe the last year or so, but it was still nothing like the train wreck experience of being with a BPD. I have never experienced anything like the insane chaos, abuse, and drama she created on a routine basis. The sad thing is that the longer I was with her the more I fought like she did. I kept thinking she could at least treat me with basic respect and consideration as that was all I was asking for and told her I certainly didn't expect anything near perfection. So I hung in there when I should have left as the reality is that she is not capable of basic respect and consideration. I have never struggled so much to get over anyone. I finally feel like I am on my way but it has been the longest road of my life (I am 15 months out). My T said to me last week that she was like a virus that infected me. So I can relate to your struggle in moving on. It's not a journey I would wish on anyone.

[Bo123]

Once removed--I don't know why I'm struggling.  Maybe her mild BPD is something I think I should have caught on my own.  I now know there were things that while not meant to, hurt her, like when I visited her when she lived a few hours away, if she got quite annoying and wouldn't talk, instead of leaving early the next morning, I left that night.  No arguments, just her mood swings and she would try to get me to stay and I almost always left explaining logically why.  I now know that is extremely painful for a BPD as it triggers their abandonment fears.  Had I known, I would have stayed.  Who has a 1.5 year breakup?  I did, never saw her only phone/email, she said she had to go NC to get over me but my best friend was married to her best his wife.  He kept telling me to hang in there she's still in love with you so it dragged out forever, got to the "button pushing" stage which I hate and never benefits anyone.  So then I thought it was done, but then her mom died and she called me several times like an old friend, the I asked if they were just sympathy calls and she said basically and I said thanks but no thanks. Then there's the full page email 1 day before Valentine's Day she sent me a list of all the good things I did for her just on V-Day.  I like many put/sacrificed a lot for a girl I was engaged to and in the end was left with nothing.  I have zero interest in women and feel like I'll spend my life waiting to hear from her.  I had a good childhood, no co-dependency issues, saw a T and even got a 2nd opinion and neither have been able to restart my heart, I remain a "flat-liner" emotionally.

[once removed]

Maybe her mild BPD is something I think I should have caught on my own.

are you kicking yourself for that?

  I now know there were things that while not meant to, hurt her, like when I visited her when she lived a few hours away, if she got quite annoying and wouldn't talk, instead of leaving early the next morning, I left that night.  No arguments, just her mood swings and she would try to get me to stay and I almost always left explaining logically why.  I now know that is extremely painful for a BPD as it triggers their abandonment fears.  Had I known, I would have stayed. 

are you struggling with "what if"s?

Then there's the full page email 1 day before Valentine's Day she sent me a list of all the good things I did for her just on V-Day. 

how did that make you feel? was it nice to have those things acknowledged?

I remain a "flat-liner" emotionally.

youre not the first to get stuck. its okay, sometimes grief stalls. being aware of that is actually an advantage, and gives you the opportunity, once you identify it, to figure out how to move forward.

[Jeffree]

Bo,

This is a typical exercise us nons seem to engage in to examine every facet of our BPD experience and learn from it.

That's one of the main differences between them and us. We are capable of introspection and learning and improving whereas BPDs just turn up their denial and keep running from their truth never getting anywhere.

There's nothing necessarily wrong with us, though every case is different.

I just think we go into the battle of relationships with a different set of weapons than BPDs. Whereas we seek the truth, meaning, appreciation and look to give and form a union, BPDs are jonesing for their next fix, victim, person to justify for them their abusive and deceptive behaviors and habits and looking to create a divide.

I think we stay in such unions because we literally have no idea why someone would choose to be mean and unhappy, and it takes a lot of convincing to ourselves that this is the true nature of the person across the table from us. 

[Bo123]

Jeffree--Excellent point when you said "they just turn up their denial and keep running".  I'd give that statement a 10.  Even when they think they're working on it, their walking backwards all the while opening the can of black paint.  Some are quite slick at making you think they're working on it but in reality not.

[araneina]

Hi Bo,
I do not think nothing is especially wrong with us. We are just human and if we don't know the signs of BPD because we have not had the experience before with these folks, we don't seem to know what we got hit with until its too late. 

Someone said that BPD/trait folks have  an uncanny was of motivating the non-BPD/trait partner to work on themselves once the relationship is over. I have had this very experience and I feel like I am embarking on a renaissance.  This positive movement may occur because the BPD/trait person touches our core issues of relationship attachment and loss in such a significant way that we must move toward our own child healing. So pain from these folks, yes, but remember the silver lining that clouds have.

Zen606

Oh yes, this very much.  As much as I hurt, as much as I miss him, I realized yesterday while talking to my mom that this was a necessary experience for me.  I am finally looking inward and realizing that I am actually at odds with myself.  My mom revealed a LOT of information to me about my childhood that I had no idea had occurred, and it is definitely insightful.  I look forward to exploring it with my therapist.

But I'm not saying anything is wrong with us... .but perhaps many of us have unresolved issues of our own that we've spent our lives ignoring, and through our BPD partner we had those issues mirrored back at us, forcing us to face them.

[once removed]

But I'm not saying anything is wrong with us... .but perhaps many of us have unresolved issues of our own that we've spent our lives ignoring, and through our BPD partner we had those issues mirrored back at us, forcing us to face them.

i think thats a great way of putting it.

i spent a lot of time in my life thinking something about me was broken, unloveable, rejectable, whatever you want to call it. it showed up as something of a self fulfilling prophecy in my relationships. it showed up when i found someone who seemed incapable of rejecting me, validated and mirrored all the reasons i desperately wanted to be loved, and depended on me, made me feel powerful for once; and then left.

after working through my grief, i realized im not broken or unloveable (rejection is a part of life... .we are all rejectable to someone). i just had a lot to learn, about myself, about others, about relationships. i was at odds with myself too, and it was very freeing to see that so i could learn to redirect so to speak

[araneina]

i think thats a great way of putting it.

i spent a lot of time in my life thinking something about me was broken, unloveable, rejectable, whatever you want to call it. it showed up as something of a self fulfilling prophecy in my relationships. it showed up when i found someone who seemed incapable of rejecting me, validated and mirrored all the reasons i desperately wanted to be loved, and depended on me, made me feel powerful for once; and then left.

after working through my grief, i realized im not broken or unloveable (rejection is a part of life... .we are all rejectable to someone). i just had a lot to learn, about myself, about others, about relationships. i was at odds with myself too, and it was very freeing to see that so i could learn to redirect so to speak

Absolutely!  Right now I'm an absolute mess - worse off then before I began therapy.  But I realize it's because I'm finally cognizant of all of these issues I've been shoving off to some dark corner in my brain.  Right now I still feel as though I'm broken, or not fully human... .but it's weirdly comforting to be feeling that instead of knowing it's there and simply ignoring it.

And of course a small part of me is concerned that I am BPD.  My mother said yesterday that she and my father "walked on eggshells" around me as a teenager and even now, and that terrified me.  However I think me being scared of this, of thinking it, makes it unlikely that I'm BPD since their core issue is denial of their self.  Time will tell!

[Bo123]

Araneina--Sorry your worse off now, hope things change for the better!

There are so many variants of who dated/married a BPD, some had pre-existing factors of no fault of their own that make things more complex.  I had a as much as normal childhood as one can define normal, would rate my overall dating experience as very good, no BPD's until my last gf which was low level and very high functioning.  It was like a stealth bomber.  I don't mean to degrade anyone's experience as some are 100X tougher than mine and of no fault of their own in many cases.  It seems clear to me and to many on the board, a break up with a BPD is much harder than a normal break-up and most of that I think is within us and how they like I said before are like Carbon Monoxide and slowly infiltrate us and its like a slow poison that takes a long time to clear the body.  For those who had BPD parents or dated a few BPD people or had childhood issues, yes I agree and apologize if anyone took it the wrong way that there was something wrong with them, that was not my intent.  However, 2 T's have not found childhood issues, I know of none and have just said BPD break ups due to the manipulation, lying, etc are not normal, nor is the thinking pattern we have been exposed to while we dated them and some of it has rubbed off on us.  I fail to see a silver lining in that for people in my situation but may be true for others.  The effort of getting away from the experience of dating a BPD I maintain is 10X greater at least than a normal break up.  My title could have been worded better, it was meant that even w/o any bad history, it's still very tough and the damage a BPD does even when they're  a very low BPD can be immense.  Why can't some of us break away from that might be a better question?  For me, this has left nothing for me to explore or fix from childhood or past relationships, just pain.

[once removed]

i had a good, very happy childhood too.

it wasnt my childhood that led me to my relationship or the breakup, although it cannot be overstated, the things we learn from our childhood, from our families, the blueprint it gives us of what a relationship is supposed to feel and look like. so exploring it did lead me to a few connections of what shaped me into the person i am, and a few ideas i had about relationships that i needed to reconsider.

but its not as simple as "bad childhood" = "more likely to date someone with BPD" any more than "bad childhood" = more likely to develop BPD. its more about our level of differentiation (more about differention here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=279626.0)... .take one person, put them in a chaotic household, theyll come out "okay"... .take another, and you might have more, longer term issues.

[Bo123]

Once removed-- I absolutely agree, two parents with Harvard degree's have 2 kids, one is a Dr and the other ends up being in/out of jail and drug user.  It doesn't define us but what it does do is place the odds in or out of our favor as to our success in relationships in life based on our childhood up to about age 7-10.  There has been some excellent discussions here from very knowledgeable people, including yourself.  We all have different upbringings, personalities and relate to things differently.  We are all unique.  My point is, and the the title of the thread is too broad is that for those of us who have lived as normal life as possible, had normal relationships as possible and were very happy with our lives, a BPD break up is I think no doubt at least 10X tougher than usual. Mine has been tougher than al previous break ups combined.  One can only lead to the conclusion that BPD very highly likely played a part in that.  In a way, a highly functioning, low BPD partner is quite difficult to detect especially when it's a cross culture relationship.  I have many friends from MFT to Psychiatrist due to a previous jobs that I have known for 20+ years and are good friends, none picked up on her behaviour due to the low level and I didn't involve them.  I have a minor in Psychology and read the book "I hate you, don't leave me" and it never came to mind.  You are correct that some people with pre- existing traits, childhoods, low self esteem, self worth, etc are more susceptible.  Non of those fit me and several others on this forum.  That leaves the theory that we all have childhood issues that have to be corrected w/o basis.  Some do, maybe most, but not all.  Some of us ran into a BPD and no one noticed, not work, not close friends and it took me 2 years to get any one to see her as she was in a relationship.  That is not a normal relationship even for the the most astutely aware.  I can get a 3rd professional opinion and I think it will be the same.  For some its clear BPD and others it hides itself and does damage unlike a normal adult mature break up, even to a adult, mature normal person.  BPD is a silent killer of the partner and anyone who disagrees with that is going against the opinion of professionals and most who post here.  Happy to see people sharing their experiences and thoughts, few things about BPD are set in stone, but some are.

[once removed]

That leaves the theory that we all have childhood issues that have to be corrected w/o basis.  Some do, maybe most, but not all. 

im not sure anyone is saying this. its just one out of many connections some members make.

Bo, im not following you. help me understand.

your thread is seeking answers as to what we might have in common that makes us susceptible to a relationship with someone with BPD. you are saying none of the theories youve heard apply to you. that makes sense. there is certainly no one size fits all.

on the other hand, you describe your ex as "mild" and "undetectable", and at the same time, "carbon monoxide" and "poison" that has left you struggling for quite some time. what im hearing (correct me if im wrong) is a conclusion that the fact that she had "undetectable" BPD is the reason you are still struggling, no more, no less.

i was reading your backstory and hoping you could clear a few things up for me.

1. how long were the two of you together?
2. were you engaged?
3. was this a long distance relationship?
4. what do you mean when you refer to a "1.5 year breakup"
5. and lastly, how long has it been since the breakup?

[Bo123]

Once removed-- As I've mentioned the title could have been worded better.  I believe and think most people here would consider a BPD break up more difficult than a normal break up due to the complexities. The mild BPD, especially when very highly functioning is hard to detect, T's agree and I didn't see it, saw things that in a cross culture relationship that were different which added to detecting it.  To answer your questions:
1) 3 years
2)yes for the last year
3)First year to 1.5 years same town, then a couple hour drive depending on her rotations for her PhD, but saw each other roughly twice a month for 3 days at a time.  The last year was a longer distance but saw each other, lots of Skype, cell, email and as she finished her PhD I finished a Secret program and we then left on a 14,000 one way trip for me to ask her parents for her hand in marriage.  I'm not Catholic, got 1.5 thumbs up, needed 2 and it was over because of the shame based society and said she wasn't allowed to marry me.
4)She initially said she would not be able to have any contact with me as that was the only way she could get over me, I offered a talk 1 hour a week for a month and we would go our own ways.  She declined, I said ok.  My best friend of her culture was married to her best friend, my friend's wife.  He advised don't contact as he and his wife knew her very well and over the next 1.5 years she text, emailed, called at 2 am and talked for 4 hours, sent page long messages about all the good things I did for her just on Valentine's day, sent B-Day and X-mas cards. We did have a few post break up arguments over who owned what, etc, normal)  My best friend said that she was telling them she was still in love with me but felt she couldn't go against her 1 parents half thumbs up.  If you know about shame based cultures, you know how powerful they are, until their kid is married, they are responsible for them.  Things finally stopped, then her mom died and she started calling again, I was tired and said if this is sympathy, don't call and that was the end.
5)Last contact was a little over a year ago, maybe 1.5

Our relationship did not fit the love bombing, rescue me, idealization, sleeping together quick(try 5 months) and that was after we talked on the phone for a month and a half before meeting.  There was zero D/V(as in all my relationships), no cheating, maybe 3 true arguments in the 3 years, I broke up once for 5 months 100% over her gf who was trying to break us up because she thought she was prettier and refused to be in a picture with me in it on xmas eve, her friend caught heck for that but we had talked about that girl and how she needed to do something about her many times, we had the support of many of her friends and she would quit and start again, I basically said you going to marry her or me.  It was a break up not related to BPD.  Neither of us saw anyone for 5 months and a group of friends surprised us at a meeting where we didn't know the other would be at and agreed the issue was the other girl who had now been given the walking orders, we got together just like we left off except the problem girl was distant and friends didn't tolerate anything from her.
We had 1 NC for about a month over a immigration issue and it wasn't 100% NC, there was discussion over it after 2 weeks.
The typical recycles just didn't happen but the very low level BPD did show and were talked about like any regular relationship disagreement.  Had 1 moderate BPD incident, dealt with it and it never happened again.  Our r/s mirrored a regular r/s except for the odd responses or actions at times, the moodiness which I thought were normal hormones and went with the flow.  All these small things did end up over time make me question if there was more and we did a week long pre-marriage counseling which we got 2 thumbs up and was told to come back when we set a date.  I enjoyed it more than her and her last session wasn't her best alone with the T's but again no one mentioned BPD.  I understand that many have had childhood issues that pop up as BPD traits or attract them to BPD or other childhood trauma.  Zero for me and I have zero indication for her also.  I think maybe since this was so low level for so long which is not the norm, you are having a hard time seeing it as healthy r/s,/very high functioning very low level BPD as it seems rare from what I've read.  It's not the norm.  You no doubt have tons of experience and I love reading your replies all over the board, you moved my topic here to get more responses and you were correct, I respect your opinion, BPD issues are complex, even at low level, if I sat down with you for coffee and could describe in real time I think it would make sense to you.  While email is fair at these things, nothing replaces face-to-face, so this is what we are left with and there will likely be misunderstandings as things have to be condensed.  Thanks for your time and interest.  I look forward to your reply and I hope I answered all your questions.

[once removed]

I hope I answered all your questions.

you did, and thank you for taking the time to do that, it really helps clear some things up.

to be very clear, im not doubting or questioning any part of your experience, just trying to get a better picture of it. many of us had high functioning exes that were lower on the spectrum too, so i understand.

it sounds like you really loved this girl and thought she was the one (correct me if im wrong). it also sounds like you had a number of external factors (her friend, her parents) working against you at times, and thats pretty tough. clearly the cultural factors were always looming too, but at the end of the day, you hoped it could be overcome. it also sounds like you would have preferred not to give up contact or at least would have preferred it slowly fizzled out, and are having a hard time with the lack of closure. all of this makes sense as to why you would struggle.

do i have that about right?

[Bo123]

You got it 100% right, excellent job.

[Jeffree]

cultural factors were always looming too


I was just thinking about this today. At first sight of quirky little problems/disagreements I was told by a wise old friend in addition to a therapist I trusted to consider the cultural differences in these instances. She is Latina from abject poverty and abuse, and I am white from middle-class and a relatively functional family.

I stuck with that line of reasoning until arguments that had nothing to do with a clash of cultures began to pop up. That's when I began to realize culture or not, she was just a terrible person inflicting on me the abuse she grew up with.

J

[In a bad way]

  .  she was just a terrible person inflicting on me the abuse she grew up with.               

That's what I thought, her kids abused her, the kids dad abused her and her parents were horrible to her. The last part I only have her word on, but the former I witnessed first hand.
Basically I was her outlet for all her frustrations, she couldn't stand up to them so I got it.
I became her whipping boy, the abused became the abuser.

[Bo123]

cultural factors were always looming too


I was just thinking about this today. At first sight of quirky little problems/disagreements I was told by a wise old friend in addition to a therapist I trusted to consider the cultural differences in these instances. She is Latina from abject poverty and abuse, and I am white from middle-class and a relatively functional family.

I stuck with that line of reasoning until arguments that had nothing to do with a clash of cultures began to pop up. That's when I began to realize culture or not, she was just a terrible person inflicting on me the abuse she grew up with.

J

Might be true in your case and others.  Mine came from middle high class for her country and her parents had 7 business incomes and lived in a house as good as the majority of middle class Americans.  Also went to school at a top rated University for 5 years before coming here as all her credits transferred because of the schools certifications and agreements with major Universities here, she's now making 100k+/yr.  Every story is different.  I do agree with you that w/o proper background, poor country girls will do almost anything to get out.  I met mine in the U.S. while she was working on her PhD.  Finding one in another country, you need them to have at least a B.A. Degree, it shows responsibility and financial status of the parents, higher Degree the better as in most poor countries you HAVE to have a B.A to be a check-out clerk, its right in the job ad.  You got to find one here who has jumped through the hoops of immigration as a professional, tourist visa's for a wife is a scam most of the time or you need to live in her country a year to see what she is really like.  Sorry your's didn't work out, mine didn't either but she was a very good person.