Borderline Waifs

[abovebeyond]

I'm interested hearing the stories of those on the board who had a Borderline Waif as a partner. Mine was a Waif, who could be incredibly sweet in demeanor - she never raged - but also could really manipulate effectively with the guilt tripping and emotional blackmail - all of it done in such a subconscious and undetectable way. She loved the feeling of being in love - the problems like depression, mood swings, and blaming always came as we transitioned into the second phase "valley" of the relationship. We did this 3x after every break up and without fail, we always ended up at the same place. I'd get exhausted with caretaking her emotional needs and slack off, while getting wiser to her cycles, patterns, & subconsious tricks, and then she'd begin detaching and then end it suddenly after finding some minor reason/event to blow out of proportion and claim as grounds for never seeing one another again. Always attempting to justify  the impulsiveness, disrespect, and messy endings with "we just aren't meant to be together, because ________ "

We'd get back together after negotiations - mostly me conceding to jump through more of her hoops (get a better job, get engaged/ring, etc). And her through mine (therapy, self improvement).

I'm not two months past our latest and final break up. And she is now engaged to new replacement who has had few R/S and is easily manipulated, from what I know. She's good. Real good.

Sad thing is I still miss her. Since Waifs don't usually rage (at least mine didn't), they're very adept at getting past one's emotional security system and bringing the whole system down with a crash. Trojan horse. It's fascinating clever and almost insidious at times.

It's really hard to forget them when your brain tends to cycle the good memories of their sweet Waif side over and over, while side tracking the bad. I've had to make a S-List in order to stay conscious of her bad characteristics.

Regardless, I'm really interested in comparing notes with others who've been with Borderline Waifs.

[ViciousCycle]

Sounds like a similar cycle to my relationship with my uBPDx waif. I would also like to add that my relationship started with dual rescuing, as I was an anxiety/depression ridden mess at the time who was trying to get over being dumped by my first real GF (it was really just past feelings coming up, had nothing to do with the break up itself). For the first 3-4 months my Waif would take care of me if I was having a panic attack or breakdown, which was pretty common at the time, but eventually she just kind of stopped showing affection in general. There was less and less spontaneous "I love you's" as the relationship went on and I felt her withdrawing, which caused me to withdraw in turn. I stopped feeling my feelings, and I became solely focused on how she felt for pretty much the rest of the relationship. I had officially become the caretaker and that was how it remained for a good 2 years. Taking care of me was the original hook in the relationship, once she stopped that then she replaced it with intense sex.

Like yours, mine practically never raged, there was only one time that she openly lost it on me and that was very very early on in the relationship. I didn't see any rage of any sort until the devaluation stage where she turned into a vindictive b1tch. She had an emotional affair with a co-worker, was picking fights, going to parties all the time, and we had a small "break" that only lasted a few days, she came back, then broke up with me for good 2 days later. After the break up she gave constant mixed messages that went back and forth between absolutely raging at me/blaming everything on me to apologizing and telling me how much she missed me and that she just needed "time".

She had a very co-dependent side to her as well, something I've read is very common to BPD Waifs. But it was always as if her attention could only be on one person or group of people at once, she had no idea how to balance out her relationships with everyone. When she went through a withdrawal cycle, she would always be completely focused on her friends. Then I would withdraw just because I didn't have the energy in me to chase her, and she would suddenly start smothering me with attention and so on and so forth.

She usually had the front that she was very sweet, innocent, bubbly, and social. But during the devaluation stage I saw a side of her I'd never seen before, the side of her that was filled with rage that has built up over her lifetime. You could tell she wanted to torment me emotionally, it was as if I had murdered one of her loved ones or something.

I look forward to hearing others stories, generally I hear that Waifs are the rescuers of BPD. They are princesses that like to rescue a prince, but once they rescue that prince then they expect that prince to always rescue them.

[SWLSR]

Pretty damn close to what I went through.  Mine would drop friends relatives or in the end me, over stuff that I am not sure what really happened.  But I have been given this warning though.  And this also includes an engagement, that sometime somewhere when you least expect it she is going to want to come back in, and when she does she is going to claim she has wanted to for a long time and we the non should have known it.

[Sofie]

Hi abovebeyond,

Having also been in a relationship with a BPD waif, I can definitely relate to what you're saying here. In addition to all the things you mentioned what really was about to drive me over the edge was the massive hypochondria - she was always, and I literally mean ALWAYS, sick from some imagined illness. I can't remember the number of times I have been sitting in the ER with her with the doctors looking tired and annoyed when they saw her - the staff at the reception knew her social security number by heart. No kidding.

Mostly, her imagined illnesses peaked when she felt she needed attention - especially from me, so the onset of a new mystical illness often coincided with me going on a business trip, focusing on a specific project for work or visiting friends or family.

Secondly, she absolutely hated it if I was ill. Fortunately, I am blessed with reasonably good health, so this did not happen often, but I can still remember that she threw a tantrum when visiting me in hospital after I had been in a car accident and suffered a concussion and the doctors told her it was a miracle I hadn't been killed. I really think she was jealous of this.  

[gettingoverit]

Wow... .sounds like we were all dating the same person. I don't know about other people, but my waify ex also had a mild pot addiction. She had to smoke a joint every night after her kids went to bed just to "relax". I hated it because at first she kept her habit a secret from me because she knew I would have dumped her ass if I had known about it from the beginning. She would not have even gotten to square one with me. It did not start "appearing" until about a year and a half after we started dating (I worked evenings so it was really easy for her to keep it hidden from me). Her whole personality changed when she was high. She would get really talkative and giddy, it would almost always put her in a good mood. At one point she said to me that she finds it easier to talk about things when she was high... .uh... .ok? When I asked her to not smoke pot some nights, she would get all moody and quiet, then stop talking to me all together. I could tell she was pissed off, so I would ask her why she is so upset and either it turned into a fight and inevitably she would use the fight as an excuse to go out in the garage and get high, or she would just stop talking to me and go out anyway to get high. But when I accused her of having an addiction she just scoffed at the idea. It was so frustrating.

My ex was also very manipulative, but did it in a very insideous way. It wasn't until weeks after our relationship ended that I realized the extend of her manipulation to get what she wanted. She had this way of insinuating that our relationship might be in jeopardy if I did not do A,B or C for her, and I like a fool did everything she wanted because I did not want to lose her. She was also a liar. Mostly lies of ommission, but a liar non the less. Again it wasn't until after our relationship that I found out the extent of her lies. This woman had lied to me about everything in her past. It was like I had been dating a stranger for almost seven years. WTH?

I too sometimes get caught up in thinking about the nice, vunerable side of her, and I tend to forget about the mean, selfish vindictive b*tch that lies beneath. She is so good at using her poor victim story to attract suitors. That's what she did with my replacement (ex-friend), and they fell for it hook line and sinker. I guess the ex-friend has their own future hell to go through to learn some valuable lessons about integrity and honor. They both are made for each other. That will become a match made in Hell I'm sure..

[soul]

The borderline i was with was also the waif variety. Very beautiful, not amazingly sexy, or sex driven. Didn't rage, only lost it very early on. Everyone she had trusted had let her down, he ex was a monster. She would cry at the drop of a hat. For six years it was fine, until one day I wanted something for me. And that was it, she changed on a sixpence. I then spent years recycling, and trying to keep her boyed up.

She was so clever at manipulation. Subtle use of stealth words, that over time made you question your sanity. In fact she would look at me with pity, as though i was the one that was ill. When I started having therapy, she started to get more nervous. I would only have to glance at someone in the street for her to accuse me of having an affair. Sometimes months later.

And all the while she would be so demure, so perfect, so lovely. She also had a habit of btching behind everyones back. Her mothers, her sisters and the very few friends she had.

A nightmare dressed as a rose ... .

[soul]

PS she also lied totally about her past. I only found this out afterwards. I mean massive life changing lies, lies that stopped me doing things I wanted to do. Lies about her husband, her children and god know what else.

[abovebeyond]

Hey Sofie,

I can relate. Wow. Mine Waif was almost always TIRED. Sick one in a while, but mostly complaining she was tired, but also she got a lot of headaches. She actually went to a doctor a month or so before we split to see what was wrong with her in general (Tiredness) and everything came back good, which confused her more. Then the week we split up and she kicked me out of the house (and flip-flopped twice on her decision), she got flu-like sick for a week and stayed in bed. I believed she was genuiely sick that week, but also figured she was using it as a ploy to garner sympathy from me and lure me back without too many demands and forgive her. I didn't this time. And that's when my replacement, a nerd and former co-worker, snuck in under the radar and became her new rescuer and my replacement. Mind blowing how they can throw a good thing away so thoughtlessly when another suitor is lined up. Strange thing is, I always knew in my gut, from the inception of our RS, that she was dangerous & untrustable in this dept, meaning she would leave our RS when our RS gas ran out, and someone else popped up. I suppressed this gut feeling throughout the RS, thinking I was being paranoid and insecure (wrong again!). She swore she would never leave and was commited till the end - her jealousies seemed to testify to that - however it was all lip service. Lesson learned. ACTIONS ALWAYS SPEAK LOUDER THAN THEIR WORDS. And they have soo many words and declarations of love - even texting it robotically back and forth all day long, which I mostly happily participated in even though I sometimes thought, "This seems very High Schoolish and immature."

Also: whenever I got sick, which was rare, she had a really difficult time being MY caregiver. She seemed to resent it. Sadly, I noticed this same detachedness in her RS with her teenage daughter. She was not a great mother, which was another big Red Flag. I know it's hard being a single mom; I was raised by a GREAT one, which is where i inherited my codependency.



Mine lied about her past, too. RS histories fraught with vagaries and whatnot. So sad.

[Sofie]

Mine lied about her past, too. RS histories fraught with vagaries and whatnot. So sad.

Yeah, mine, too. What really messed with me for a long time - the reason I came to these boards, actually - was that I couldn't decipher which parts of the gruesome stories of sexual abuse she told me were true and which weren't. On one hand, it was/is deeply ingrained in me that one doesn't lie about such matters, on the other hand some (definitely not all) of the stories she told me couldn't be true as the facts simply didn't add up. Mind-boggling.

[soul]

Hey Sofie,

I can relate. Wow. Mine Waif was almost always TIRED. Sick one in a while, but mostly complaining she was tired, but also she got a lot of headaches. She actually went to a doctor a month or so before we split to see what was wrong with her in general (Tiredness) and everything came back good, which confused her more. Then the week we split up and she kicked me out of the house (and flip-flopped twice on her decision), she got flu-like sick for a week and stayed in bed. I believed she was genuiely sick that week, but also figured she was using it as a ploy to garner sympathy from me and lure me back without too many demands and forgive her. I didn't this time. And that's when my replacement, a nerd and former co-worker, snuck in under the radar and became her new rescuer and my replacement. Mind blowing how they can throw a good thing away so thoughtlessly when another suitor is lined up. Strange thing is, I always knew in my gut, from the inception of our RS, that she was dangerous & untrustable in this dept, meaning she would leave our RS when our RS gas ran out, and someone else popped up. I suppressed this gut feeling throughout the RS, thinking I was being paranoid and insecure (wrong again!). She swore she would never leave and was commited till the end - her jealousies seemed to testify to that - however it was all lip service. Lesson learned. ACTIONS ALWAYS SPEAK LOUDER THAN THEIR WORDS. And they have soo many words and declarations of love - even texting it robotically back and forth all day long, which I mostly happily participated in even though I sometimes thought, "This seems very High Schoolish and immature."

Also: whenever I got sick, which was rare, she had a really difficult time being MY caregiver. She seemed to resent it. Sadly, I noticed this same detachedness in her RS with her teenage daughter. She was not a great mother, which was another big Red Flag. I know it's hard being a single mom; I was raised by a GREAT one, which is where i inherited my codependency.



Mine lied about her past, too. RS histories fraught with vagaries and whatnot. So sad.

as above ... .

[schwing]

Hi Abovebeyond,

... .Mine was a Waif, who could be incredibly sweet in demeanor - she never raged - but also could really manipulate effectively with the guilt tripping and emotional blackmail - all of it done in such a subconscious and undetectable way.

Many of the significant BPD relationships in my life have predominantly waif qualities, though I sometimes wonder if that's only because being a waif with me yielded better results than being otherwise (i.e., witch, queen, or hermit).  I have suspected that these people change their "strategies" depending upon whom they are trying to influence.

My primary waif was also incredibly sweet, especially with new acquaintances.  She never raged either.  Frankly, rage would have been a deal breaker for me, so perhaps she knew better.  On the other hand, she got everything she ever wanted from me via guilt tripping and emotional blackmail (also).  I was always too eager to "fix" things and she would come up with an endless (and ever changing) list of things to work on.

She loved the feeling of being in love

Who doesn't?  I just never knew that they could fall so readily in love with other people.  Certainly I was led to believe that it was a much more "rare" event.

- the problems like depression, mood swings, and blaming always came as we transitioned into the second phase "valley" of the relationship. We did this 3x after every break up and without fail, we always ended up at the same place.  

I "recycled" my relationship with her many, many, many times.  Too many times for me to accurately recount.  Often enough that I honestly couldn't tell you when we were "in a relationship" as opposed to "on a break."  I was convinced to be in an "open" relationship for a while, though it was only open in the sense that she didn't have to feel guilty being with other people she'd never tell me about.  I just thought she only had a "commitment" issue; it was but the tip of the iceberg.

I'd get exhausted with caretaking her emotional needs and slack off,

There was a time that I "spent" so much of my time thinking about her welfare and emotional needs that I was in great denial of my own unmet needs and pain.  The paradox for me was that so long as I was the "rescuer," I could defer my own needs.  I always believed that once she got a "break" from her woes, then she might start taking care of me.  And oh she promised this to be the case, but I never got beyond the promises.

I'm not two months past our latest and final break up. And she is now engaged to new replacement who has had few R/S and is easily manipulated, from what I know. She's good. Real good.

Mine was married within the year after we broke up and we were "together" for more or less than 5 years.  I wouldn't say that she was "good" at what she did/does, but rather that psychology plays a much bigger role in courtship/dating/relationships than most people realize.

It's really hard to forget them when your brain tends to cycle the good memories of their sweet Waif side over and over, while side tracking the bad. I've had to make a S-List in order to stay conscious of her bad characteristics.

Our (non-disordered) brains are not hard-wired to "forget" such significant attachments very easily.  This is why we experience grief.  This is why humanity has rituals associated with different kinds of loss.  It can be helpful to maintain a "con's" list to counterweight those times when we might reminisce over the "pro's" of our relationship; but it is more helpful IMHO, to work on our acceptance that this person is mentally ill and recognize that all the "pro's" and "con's" are all expressions of their disorder.

... Mind blowing how they can throw a good thing away so thoughtlessly when another suitor is lined up.

This may be hard to accept but, for pwBPD, our relationships are not "a good thing" or a good deal they mistakenly passed up; our relationships are somehow a catalyst for their disordered feelings which only escalate the longer they stay with us.  For all the "good" we do for them, the more their feelings of intimacy are triggered, the more they become overwhelmed by their disordered fear that we will unexpectedly abandon them.

I think all they ever want is a relationship that does not end up making them feel this way, but the problem lies in them and not in their selection of partners.

Strange thing is, I always knew in my gut, from the inception of our RS, that she was dangerous & untrustable in this dept, meaning she would leave our RS when our RS gas ran out, and someone else popped up. I suppressed this gut feeling throughout the RS, thinking I was being paranoid and insecure (wrong again!).

Ditto on my end too.  The way I'd described it was that my heart overrode my gut and head, much to my regret.

She swore she would never leave and was commited till the end - her jealousies seemed to testify to that - however it was all lip service.

I don't think it was just lip service, she meant what she said when she said it.  But she said it without the understanding of her mental disorder.  She didn't understand why her feelings swung so often and so intensely.  And she wanted to believe that her feelings didn't or won't change.  But they did.

Best wishes, Schwing

[dageaux]

Ya'll covered all bases with your comments. All I can say is ditto. Would push me away when her heart started getting involved then come back in a rush when her feelings abated. No rage but a master manipulator! I always took her back and this happened 10X over 12 months. Build me up then tear me down. Cute as a button, sweet as pie and good in bed. I was emotionally mind screwed as we all were and are. Thank goodness for this site. I have a long way to go as we have been apart now for seven and a half weeks. But we work together and have to interact at work. Hard as heck to get over someone you still see 3-5 times a week. So glad I'm not alone in this!

[sissylover]

I have a question, are all borderline waifs thin, or is there some other definition? Mine has eating disorders which obviously affects her weight, when she was yonger she was very thin.

[faithfull]

You were telling my story. Mine was looking for lonely internationals  as a victim. Her trick was to take advantage of their loneliness, and their eastern culture. She started by being sweet/shy/vulnerable/victim of being forced living with abusive dad. She then became seductive and using sex for controlling/manipulation. all victims were her first sexual experience, and she would'nt do it with anybody else. (she was being intimate with me and her bf at the same time, and telling us the same bs)

Now she got married to her Indian bf. (thanks god, she would'nt let me go. we had 6 closures. I finally contacted her bf to get rid of her.) She was quiet and never raged, she was acting out just when lies were found. She then went to state of "denial" like nothing happened and try to compensate with make up sex and acting vulnerable/ and blaming her father for all her troubles.

I am so glad I am out of this. It could have ruined my life.

[oceanblue]

Sissylover - I saw a list of characteristics somewhere to describe BPD waifs.  On that list, it said eating disorders are common.  I had a BPDbf waif and he was very thin.  When he was dysregulated, he was definitely anorexic and shockingly thin.  Having an eating order is trying to take control.  I think his eating disorders flare up when he is otherwise dysregulated so it gives him a feeling of controlling something.  Also, becoming shockingly thin is a way to get attention and to play on other's sympathies.  It's just one more way of being helpless and demanding attention and rescuing.  I came to see it as one more way of manipulating me.  As in, I would pressure him to get a job and he would drop 20 pounds because I was "yelling at him" so he couldn't eat and therefore his dramatic weight loss was my fault.  Of course, he couldn't understand the adult responsibility of having a job and he wouldn't get a job if I asked him to because he simply wouldn't do anything if I asked him to do it.

[GreenMango]

Abovebeyond,

Waifs, of any variety, require rescuing on their terms.  Whether you live up to the fantasy and continue to capitulate irregardless of their behavior and your needs will determine the outcome.

They speak to our inner fixer.  Once we are emotionally exhausted and drained we can no longer fulfill the obligations we once did by rescuing and the fantasy becomes reality.  And, the waif leaves to find fulfillment in one who can.  There is no equity in a relationship like this.

-GM

PS Ocean that is my favorite quotes from Camus and actually very timely for this thread.  A waif cannot walk beside and neither can anyone who needs to be carried through a relationship.

[dah1029]

Waifs are exhausting.  Mine is actually an overeater.  I attribute that to an addictive D/O or maybe to self-soothing.  His past includes smoking 3 ppd for years, enjoys gambling, addictive with taking vacations-- especially when he can't afford it, addictive on partners, alcohol abuse, and now is morbidly obese. 

[bpdlover]

Not all waifs are thin. The ex did have eating disorder issues and her Mother was a stick, however she was blessed with a naturally healthy figure regardless of how much she punished herself. The amount of thinking she did in silence was crazy. She was always trying to get a controllable angle on things. Most of the time she was quiet however there were times when she informed me that she was going to beat the crap out of someone and at times that was also pointed at me. By the time I came along, she had been through a marriage and had some sort of "memorised" coping strategies from counselling. She did fluctuate between victim and punisher mentality. The mind games/break ups were exhausting. Ultimately, she would stop at nothing to punish and torture anyone who really loves her. There may be co-morbity of NPD and possibly HPD although she was not a loud person.

[redberry]

Waifs are exhausting.  Mine is actually an overeater.  I attribute that to an addictive D/O or maybe to self-soothing.  His past includes smoking 3 ppd for years, enjoys gambling, addictive with taking vacations-- especially when he can't afford it, addictive on partners, alcohol abuse, and now is morbidly obese.  

Mine was an overeater too when he was dysregulated.  Would binge on food like nobody I have ever seen.  Spending close to $20 at McDonalds and eat every bite of it.  Or he would seriously binge drink, downing shots, beer, liquor.  Or would gamble away every last penny in one night.  Or waste money, yes on vacations or gadgets, anything.  Every now and again, he would "binge exercise" and hurt himself with over exertion.  He's not obese, but has gained weight over the years and will be in real trouble when his metabolism slows down.

[bpdlover]

Actually, come to think of it, she did consume lots of chips and sit there watching television. Had hermit characteristics. It fluctuated so much though. Just wondering if this is groundhog day? Didn't we post on waifs recently?

[eric1024]

I met a woman (36 at the time) who came across as a happy-go-lucky, cheery, social person when I first met her. We hit it off right off the bat. I realized she came from a very troubled childhood and that she needed some stability in her life. She told me how wonderful and amazing I was throughout the first year, or so, of our relationship. Plenty of two-way communication from both of us saying how much we loved each other. In the first few months of the relationship she would always say 'I know you're going to leave me' whenever it was time for me to head home. I figured the previous guys in her life were looking for nothing but a physical relationship and just couldn't relate to her the way I could. I always reassured her I wasn't going to leave her.

The first three years, she really tried improving herself (self-improvement, counselor, antidepressants, etc.). The weird thing to me was how we could never get past square one. We would have a great week, or two, but then she would get all pissed off about something seemingly meaningless and it was like our relationship did a 'reboot' and back to square one. I could never figure out why an outside force like her being pissed off with her boss had to affect everything else in her life. It's like if one person pissed her off, she just shut down from life. Sometimes I would do or say the 'wrong' thing to her and she would shut down and withdraw from me. Eventually she would come around and things would be 'normal' again (sometimes acting like nothing ever happened to start with). In the beginning, this would happen less frequently but as the years went on the cycles shortened and it seemed like her mood changed by the hour. I shut down for fear of pissing her off, always remembering the wonderful girl I used to know and hoping she'd return, if only for an hour or so. She never raged (I wouldn't have tolerated this), she just shut down and withdrew.

I was relatively close with her out-of-state family and my mother and her grandmother were 'phone friends', calling each other a couple of times a week. Her grandmother was the love of her life. Sadly, her grandmother passed away five years into our relationship. Needless to say, this rocked her world. She began withdrawing more and more from our relationship. At this time she had been living with me for over a year. Four months after she, my mother, and I had made the 10-hour trip (one way) to her grandmother's memorial service, she announced she had been screwing around behind my back and was moving out! I was absolutely blown away... .how could someone I promised never to leave, gave 100% of myself to  :'(for almost 6 years, and gave and did too much to list here just flip a switch like without even batting an eye?

That was eight months ago and I'm just starting to pull things together.

This brief description only touches the tip of the iceberg in terms of specifics but that's the gist of it. Looking for answers after she left me, I was shocked to learn of BPD. So much of our relationship is described to a tee with this disorder. I guess it's nice to know others know what I went through and am dealing with. I just wish I didn't remember all the 'good' times we had.   :'(

-Eric

[MindfulJavaJoe]

My uBPD/NPD STBXw was a waif for most of oor r/s.

She had been a victim for most of her life.

Anyone would take pity on her when she told the stories of her father, her bosses, friends that had treater her badly, her family that were mean to he.

She craved to be loved and looked after.

What does this say about me as a man that I used to find this actractive? 

She certainly was not normal. I know that.

She is no longer a waif with me. She is full of blame, accusations, resentment and rejection. I'm sure her new bf has not seen this side of her yet.

So my question to you is why did you find your waif attractive?

What need in you did it satisfy to have a waif in your life? 

MJJ

[eric1024]

So my question to you is why did you find your waif attractive?

What need in you did it satisfy to have a waif in your life?

For me it filled a void of loneliness and my desire to help people. Having what felt like a best friend and gf at the same time seemed perfect, at the time.

[abovebeyond]

Quote

"For me it filled a void of loneliness and my desire to help people. Having what felt like a best friend and gf at the same time seemed perfect, at the time."


Same here.

Like others, I think they switch Borderline roles as the RS comes to an end, mutating into a Witch or Queen in order to mentally disengage from the RS when the split. That sweet waif goes bye bye and in comes the terror.


The love is so sweet with the Waif in the beginning, which makes it astronomically harder to process the devaluation during the break ups.

Sigh.

[MindfulJavaJoe]

For me it filled a void of loneliness and my desire to help people. Having what felt like a best friend and gf at the same time seemed perfect, at the time.

You are not alone.

Mea Culpa.

We all need to take a hard look at ourselves. I spent 20 years trying to fill a bucket of emotional emptiness. I tried valiently.

In the middle of thsi I lost myself, who I was. I wasn't happy and never had my own needs met.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to help another especially someone we love but at what cost to ourselves?

MJJ

[MindfulJavaJoe]

Cross reference with the following thread on trust?

Was you waif trustwothy? Take the test.

Were you too trusting and if so why?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=175111.0


MJJ

[MindfulJavaJoe]

                 Why were you attracted to your Waif? 

It's a fair question. If you do not answer it then what is to stop you falling for another?

It is common for us to fall from one BPD r/s to another... .

The lessons to be learnt all relate to ourselves and noth e pwBPD.

[oceanblue]

What does this say about me as a man that I used to find this actractive? 

When I met my BPDbf - I was newly divorced and my self-esteem had taken a huge blow. Along comes this guy who hangs on my every word.  The mirroring made me feel like we had so much in common.  And his willingness to reveal everything made me feel trusted and desirable.  I was very much susceptible to all the flattery at that point in my life so I ignored a lot of red flags.

I've realized I have some pretty big abandonment issues myself and my divorce made them worse. The waif, in his helplessness, made me feel like, no matter how badly things got, he would not abandon me.  Of course, I never realized he would be the one to make things worse and I would WANT him to leave.  In many ways, his unhealthy helplessness made me feel like the white knight.  Now that I understand that dynamic, I realize it was a fantasy.  Rescuing him did not make our relationship more secure.  It actually destabilized it and created a dynamic where he relied on me for everything and I resented it.

I also realize I get a big emotional reward from "rescuing" other people and I tend to own their problems.  I've made a conscious effort to understand myself in this regard and I no longer take on other people's problems as my own.  I can offer empathy but not time, money or energy unless I really think about it in a conscious way. 

Because I tend to focus on other people's problems, I forget about taking care of myself and my needs.  Learning to put my own needs first in my life has brought me tremendous happiness.

A lot of my post-relationship work has been on myself, getting to know myself and understanding my triggers.  It hasn't been easy but I am happier, more secure and content down to my core.  My health is improved and I enjoy new friends, hobbies and interests.  I am not dating just yet but I am happier than I have been in a long, long time.  I know my next partner will be employed and competant in life and stable.  And I'm willing to wait for that.

[dah1029]

Redberry--  or ex's sound like the same person.

I wasn't attracted to the waifiness of the ex.  His behavior annoyed me and I blatantly saw manipulation.  I had no idea he was BPD until I investigated various topics on the internet after our demise.  After he dysreulated and we split up, I seemed to escalate into codependency when he admitted to hiding alcohol abuse from me, his depression, and then my personal discovery and amateur diagnosis that he was most likely BPD.  That was the perfect storm for my caretaking issues.  That started me on a downhill spiral of depression, wanting to save him, and caring more about his BPD than the effects of his behavior on me and my kids.  Lately, I finally feel like my focus is about me.  Finally.  It's taken hardwork, therapy, this board, Cymbalta, and starting to date a new man that I'm having alot of fun with. 

[bpdlover]

MJJ makes a good point. We get fooled (largely by ourselves) into believing they are helpless victims until they become the perpetrator and throw nothing but false accusations, blame and hatred our way. Like my T mentioned to me several times, even drawing a diagram for me to remember it with, she is a survivor and not the person I thought she was.

[dansure]

I just found this thread here and it's amazing how it seems like some people are perfectly describing my ex and my relationship with her.

Was anyone else in a relationship with a BPD waif and can share his experience?

I noticed that many refer to them as "vindictive" which is a word I used many times to describe my ex as well.

[Madison66]

Yeah, my uBPD/NPD ex gf of 3+ years showed strong traits of a vulnerable narc and traits of waif BPD.  I got the worst of both worlds.  She was always the victim and the emotional abuse/blackmail was ridiculous.  There were some rages during the r/s, but more emotional dysregulation and emotional immaturity.  She was a 42 year old professional who thought it was completely acceptable to show up at my door at midnight with the glossy BPD eyes acting like an emotionally dysregulated 3 year old.  The rage would normally happen if she didn't feel like I was responding appropriately.  Then, she could sit in front of a T and completely justify how she acted.  I was so caught up in her reality that I thought I was completely crazy.  So, year, victim, emotionally dysregulated, some rages, dis-associative behavior, emotionally abusive, self loathing, inability to self soothe, manipulative and controlling, emotionally immature, lacking empathy, at times darkly depressed, would be extremely emotional and aware of her feelings only as they related to her alone, etc.  From what I understand, she had a replacement within two weeks and now another.  She can't tolerate being alone and must have her "supply".

I'm 70 days out and nearly 60 days n/c.  The whole thing so messed with my mind and I'm going through waves of emotions lately.  I'm really determined to come out of this mess healthy and ready to live, breathe, grow and love again... .

[DiamondSW]

Mine was a waif and she was the kind of girl who could easily have passed for the vicar's daughter.  Exceptionally pretty and well presented with an ability to charm and be very sweet.

However, behind closed doors, there would be moments when I would just despair with her nasty words, humiliating actions and hatred of me and herself.  She REALLY hated herself.  She would buy all of the best clothes that money could, beautiful shoes, posh mayfair haircuts, but she knew that much of it was via mummy's money -and after the initial joy of purchasing, the reality ATE her up. 

She was SOO talented and soo beautiful -she could do anything, but No.  She's too ill and the 1hr a week T makes no tangible difference on a life where she's 30 and can't forver live like a student.

I feel sorry for her.  I really do.  And I nearly died from her words and actions.  What a waste. 

If I ever see her mother or cousin though... . he will have his goolies chopped off and she will be fedexed back to the Middle East cattle class.  Blame them, they were her abusers, NOT me.

[In_n_Out]

Add me to the list and my exdBPDgf waif exhibited many of the same traits listed.  She was a "victim" of her parents (her dad is just a sicko).  She was thrust in to beauty pagents as a teenager and even competed in a state competition.  She was very pretty, thin (eating disorder), never married, no kids.  Her longest r/s before ours was 18 months (I hung in there for 3.5 years).  

Her mood swings were off the charts.  She could be driving with me in the car acting goofy one minute and then suddenly, she's in tears.  Always crying.  And when she cried, I had to stop everything to give her a hug.  A LONG hug.  And her shoulders and back always ached so I had to give rubdowns/massages.  Not gentle rubs, she wanted like deep tissue massages.  Funny story but a female friend of mine had sore shoulders just the other day (yes, this triggered) me.  I went to rub them and she said "ouch! you don't know your own strength!".  My fingers would cramp from massaging so hard and then she would complain if I stopped too soon.  She actually mentions that in her last email to me "It always seemed like it was such a burdon for you to just rub my shoulders".  

Add hypochondriac to the list.  She had gastro-intestinal illness.  Some thing that doctors couldn't find anything wrong but she did her own research for and "discovered" that she has endometriosis.  She found some OTC chewables that are filled with calcium.  She'd eat those things like candy before and after every meal.  Well, that led to kidney stones.  So we had a number of ER visits for this and that.  

She can't keep a job.  Just like how she cycles through bf's, she cycles through jobs.  She would call me crying because she was so stressed out.  I would have to go over on my lunch break just to hug her, rub her shoulders and tell her that it would be ok.  She'd eventually just walk out of every job.  She can't multitask.  She can only focus on one thing but for a short period of time.  ADD probably.

I was isolated and lost my own identity.  I stopped working out and gained a lot of weight.  If I did go to the gym, she'd stop by just to say hi (she didn't workout herself).  

Unlike others here, my ex was a good care taker.  I think that she was seeking my approval in the same way that she sought it from her dad (but never got it).  I injured my arm once and needed stitches.  She RACED to the ER and had such a panicked look on her face; as if I might die from the thing and then she'd be lost and lonely.  She would have a foot bath ready for me and a heating pad for my back if my day was hard (due to me being out of shape and overweight at the time).  She'd then prepare dinner.  I loved the attention.  She would later throw all of this back on me though because as she indicated, it seemed that I never respected her and that I took her for granted.

If there wasn't already enough drama going on, she would create it.  Running out of gas so that I'd have to take off of work immediately to fetch a gas can and go put enough gas in so that we could get her to the gas station.  She totaled her car high on Ambian and wine coming to see me (before we moved in together).  So she used my car until I got her one.  I later found out that she used my car to go visit her old bf's.  

She would often say what others had mentioned; that I would someday leave her as all the others had.  :)uring our last recycle, she said "why can't you just go and stay away like the others?".  She would say "this is it, *when* we break up, I won't date ever again... . I don't want to go through the whole meet and greet thing ever again".  Of course, she started a new r/s with my replacement even before we finally ended for this last time.  She had begun at one point ending all notes and texts with "love you always - no matter".  No matter what?  No matter if you leave me?  If I leave you?  Always doom and gloom.

She would do the push/pull thing.  After sex on a saturday morning (and sex with her was fairly bland honestly), she says "I think that we should live apart so that we can date.  We never really dated.  I'd like for you to come to my house and bring me flowers and take me out on a real date".  What the heck is that, we're engaged?  She pushed me out of the bedroom first (I slept in the spare bedroom because I snored or rolled over too much).  She then pushed me out of the house that we shared (she found me my own place for me... . how very nice of her).  

When my boys came over for their visitation, it was always a nightmare.  She couldn't stand not having my full attention and she would jump all over them for every little thing.  If/when I dared question why she felt that she needed to be that way to them, she would start crying and storm out of the house (that was her "rage".  She always had to have all the attention.  Once, after I had been moved out, she had me over for dinner.  I forewarned her that I would likely get a very important business call.  Well, it came, just as dinner was served.  The call lasted a while and she was getting irked.  She went outside to work in the yard.  Finally, she couldn't stand it any longer and came in and said excitedly, "you've got to come see this!".  I held up a finger and whispered "I'm sorry, almost done!".  Well, when I finished I went outside angrily and said "now what is it that is so damn important?".  "There was a (some animal) that looked really cute.  I thought that I'd share that with you".  That ruined the evening.

I can go on and on.  And what's sad is my back is killing me from work today (I tweaked it at the gym last night) and I'm triggered and missing her heating pad and dinner.  A sore back is what triggers me now.  What a hold they get on you!

[whatathing]

I believe mine was a waif and hermit type too. It's great to know about all your stories. Mine had eating disorders, didnt rage, had a great engulfment fear, always was complaining about other people, work, her family... . Was really beautiful and smart, talented for anything she'd want, but unable to stick to anything. She used work as a regulation source, or maybe to avoid feeling the void. Many similarities to all of your stories.

I'd like to ask if anyone witnessed this: she had big sleeping problems, or a kind of sleeping disorder: she had nightmares every week, lucid dreams that she hated because she couldnt wake herself up and were too intense, also night terrors, which is when you are awake but your body is still sleeping and you cant move and feel suffocated. And she also had some very strange nearly psychotic episodes, in which, in a matter of minutes, in the daytime, she felt a great sadness and despair, like everything was so bad and the world was black. She said it was like a dark cloud just overwhelmed her inside. This was similar to a rapid cycling bipolar episode. Anyone saw any of this?

Thanks

[whatathing]

P.S.: I always thought maybe it could be a side effect of the medication she was taking since 3 years ago, fpr depression and anxiety.

[dansure]

Mine showed off pretty much the same traits as others.

She didn't rage but always found ways to victimize herself. She would bait me by passiv-aggressiv behavior until I took the bait and then she would always call me "harsh" or "aggressiv" when in reality I just reacted to her baits.

She was super innocent, nice and cute and the beginning of the relationship and made me feel like I am the best thing that ever happened to her. When we met I was also at a bad place because my first love cheated on me and broke my heart. She had awful parents, I am pretty sure that her mother has BPD as well. Sometimes she would call my ex and freak out on her and other times she was super nice and caring. Even though she was a virgin when we met, the sex was mind-blowing at the beginning of the relationship. However, towards the end of the relationship she started to withdraw her attention more and more and sex became so rare that I complained about it at some point. She told me that I am too demanding and that I need to understand that she is stressed. She only raged when she had something planed and when I didn't react the way she expected me to do. During the last two month of the relationship her personality started to change. Whereas she used to cry a lot during our fights and play the poor victim the became very indifferent towards the end. She once even told me "I used to cry when we fought, but then I noticed I need to be strong and fight back!". So I also started to care less and I didn't react to her tears anymore. She asked me to help her with something and cried and asked me how I can refuse to help her. But I was so annoyed be her behavior and by the fact that she was withdrawing all the affection that I simply didn't feel like helping her anymore. I guess that was the sign for her that the game is over and I won't be her rescuer anymore, so we broke up.

That's why she showed her cruel, vindictive bhity side. Whenever I called her she told me how awful our relationship was and how happy she is to be out of it. She claimed that she is scared of me and that I want to kill her and that she would be ready to fight if I tried. She reactivated her Facebook account and put seductive pictures on all of her social media accounts. Two month after she started dating someone else and I am pretty sure that she met him during our relationship.

The hardest thing with the borderline waif is to make a coherent picture of them in your mind. On one side I see that poor, little, innocent girl that would always cry when we had an argument. On the other side I see this vindictive b!tch that moved on within a couple of days and replaced me after two month and didn't have anything nice to tell me anymore after our break up.

PS: She was also always tired and felt sick. A couple a weeks before we broke up she even went to the doctor to get a check up.

[GuiltHaunted]

In order not to double post, I'll refer to my story with my uBPDexgf, which is in it's own separate thread:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=218818.0


But a lot for each of the stories sounds familiar.

[starshine]

My ex was a waif.  He was the one who got wronged by his ex-wife.  He was wronged at work.  He never raged, would just leave when he got uncomfortable and then would hold it against me.  When he lost his job he did some odd work to make a buck, but soon just gave up on that- something was always ailing him.  He was too ill or hurt to work, but could find the energy to rollerblade for hours a day.  He implied it was so he could maintain his heart health to maintain his erections.  The sex WAS great, the best I ever had.  He loved to create drama. He frequently talked smack about people he interacted or worked with (when he had a job) or served on boards with.   He hated to travel, and punished me if I did, saying awful things about what I would be doing or who I would be going with.  He would also make up things, like texting me that I left the refridgerator door open, or something else totally weird and banal.  He would talk very quietly, so people would have to ask him to repeat himself, sometimes more than once. 

[Waifed]

Quiet, shy, social anxiety, very sexual, never cursed at me in 3 years, never spoke badly about anyone but my ex wife, eyes never wondered in public, subtly passive aggressive, Gaslighting big time, secretive, compartmentalized with her parents her friend and I, she would never do anything like date my friend like others have, never spoke poorly of exes, no obvious sustained addictions, very good self control, more engulfment issues than abandonment until the end, wasn't capable of logical arguments, spent a lot of time at her parents (30 yo), she was actually married but never lived with him, didn't like to use condoms, went on only 2 trips with me in three years, stayed with me most nights but NEVER left anything at my house, for 3 years she constantly said "we need to end this", was not materialistic at all, hermit like, never uses social media but blocked me on Facebook before we started dating even though I had her Facebook password, rarely expected me to support her financially, never really bought me any gifts or anything sentimental, some mirroring but more with her friend, scared of a committed relationship,  seemed like she knew she would never be able to have a lasting relationship, educated and working on her masters even though she was awkward at work and only good at non-stressful repetitive work, pretty oblivious to things in the world except music movies and reality TV, very attractive but she would come to work at times without makeup looking bad, rarely wore nice clothes but would dress up loosely when we went out, liar, cheated, she changed when I got sick and it never was the same.

[jdcthunder14]

I have a question, are all borderline waifs thin, or is there some other definition? Mine has eating disorders which obviously affects her weight, when she was yonger she was very thin.

No I am sure they are not. But a lot of pwBPD have co-morbid disorders such as depression, anxiety, and eating disorders. Mine was a bulimic. Body image disorders are common also.