Friends w benefits

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Saw ex a week and a half ago for talking, drinks. She said, despite what we were there for, she didn't want to talk about the past-- today forward was fine.  Our previous interaction was with her having a melt down, afmitting she hadn't been to therapy in weeks (shes in dbt since feb.) and wouldn't go to an emergency appt.  then stopped communicating.  I got worried and went to see her, we walked over to get drinks.

She tried to get me to agree to being friends or friends w benefits, which i said id consider if we could actually talk about the past--she clearly couldn't handle it bc she ended up calling her codependent BFF to join us, whereupon I left.  She reached out a few times but I didn't reply, except once where I said it seemed she couldn't handle it so we should leave it be. NC for 1.5 weeks, then I got drunk and reached out.  She replied right away, suggested we meet up, and then in the planning was weird, so I nixed it.  I asked what happened, no reply, then offered a get together next day.  She told me of her other plans, couldn't.  Said if she'd wanted to she woulda set plans for later and y not either do it or say you don't want to.  Later she said she couldn't set plans w me in advance bc she couldn't map where her feelings for me would be, that they are "disordered, disorganized and disorgamzing" and messy, that they can't be vacuumed or swept (she has OCD).  Beyond stressors for her, they feel good, are pleasureable. I felt she'd had a wall up towards the end of our relationship, too scared to totally let go (eventually discovered last rel. sent my high functioning gf to the er, where she ultimately got connected to her dbt), asked her about it but she had to go before answering.  She had such lucidity, was so communicative, and then she had to go to a holiday thing so our texting was stopped.  Next night, she puts out hooking up again, i dont take the bait, but see where shes going.  she gets weird again.  Checked in the next day, got weird replies, a bit of pushing, but I thought I had my center and said I couldn't stay connected to her if she disappeared w no warning, just say she needs space. She agreed. We joked but then she started disappearing during an intense question, i communicated frustration, she started typing then never finished, then nada and I freaked out. Think the holidays really got to me.  Then, like a nut, I went over to her house to talk.  Turns out she was stressing about leaving for family and trip.  Said shed planned to address me later, got her to agree to just say something next time. Ended well, but later I was sad and told her I needed space. 

Now, I feel hooked again.  But for what?  Possible booty calls with a woman who is telling me she can't handle seeing me, or a relationship?  I know she cares for me, but not enough.  And I'm not sure how I really feel anyway, ESP since I'm the one who has left twice, she did once in a fight.  I know she can't be there for me or give me the relationship I want, at least right now.  Seems dumb to even try to be friends.   I think I miss the dream, the potential I thought we had, which I thought I was ok with but reconnecting has made me miss.

I am feeling stuck and lonely.

I feel really low.

[Elsegundo]

Saw ex a week and a half ago for talking, drinks. She said, despite what we were there for, she didn't want to talk about the past-- today forward was fine.  Our previous interaction was with her having a melt down, afmitting she hadn't been to therapy in weeks (shes in dbt since feb.) and wouldn't go to an emergency appt.  then stopped communicating.  I got worried and went to see her, we walked over to get drinks.

She tried to get me to agree to being friends or friends w benefits, which i said id consider if we could actually talk about the past--she clearly couldn't handle it bc she ended up calling her codependent BFF to join us, whereupon I left.  She reached out a few times but I didn't reply, except once where I said it seemed she couldn't handle it so we should leave it be. NC for 1.5 weeks, then I got drunk and reached out.  She replied right away, suggested we meet up, and then in the planning was weird, so I nixed it.  I asked what happened, no reply, then offered a get together next day.  She told me of her other plans, couldn't.  Said if she'd wanted to she woulda set plans for later and y not either do it or say you don't want to.  Later she said she couldn't set plans w me in advance bc she couldn't map where her feelings for me would be, that they are "disordered, disorganized and disorgamzing" and messy, that they can't be vacuumed or swept (she has OCD).  Beyond stressors for her, they feel good, are pleasureable. I felt she'd had a wall up towards the end of our relationship, too scared to totally let go (eventually discovered last rel. sent my high functioning gf to the er, where she ultimately got connected to her dbt), asked her about it but she had to go before answering.  She had such lucidity, was so communicative, and then she had to go to a holiday thing so our texting was stopped.  Next night, she puts out hooking up again, i dont take the bait, but see where shes going.  she gets weird again.  Checked in the next day, got weird replies, a bit of pushing, but I thought I had my center and said I couldn't stay connected to her if she disappeared w no warning, just say she needs space. She agreed. We joked but then she started disappearing during an intense question, i communicated frustration, she started typing then never finished, then nada and I freaked out. Think the holidays really got to me.  Then, like a nut, I went over to her house to talk.  Turns out she was stressing about leaving for family and trip.  Said shed planned to address me later, got her to agree to just say something next time. Ended well, but later I was sad and told her I needed space. 

Now, I feel hooked again.  But for what?  Possible booty calls with a woman who is telling me she can't handle seeing me, or a relationship?  I know she cares for me, but not enough.  And I'm not sure how I really feel anyway, ESP since I'm the one who has left twice, she did once in a fight.  I know she can't be there for me or give me the relationship I want, at least right now.  Seems dumb to even try to be friends.   I think I miss the dream, the potential I thought we had, which I thought I was ok with but reconnecting has made me miss.

I am feeling stuck and lonely.

I feel really low.

[Surnia]

So sorry that you are feeling that way! 

I think I miss the dream, the potential I thought we had

Yes, it happens often that we feel low and then we remember only the good things or the ideal picture... .

Is there something you can do to for you, like seeing friends or walking - to get some more energy?

[Elsegundo]

Yes, I went out for a walk.  Good ideA.

I guess I also wonder if there's some hope for us to get back together.

[Justadude]

sucks bro.

[Elsegundo]

Any advice?  My moments of clarity are mixed w confusion.

[Surnia]

Yes, I went out for a walk.  Good ideA.

 

I guess I also wonder if there's some hope for us to get back together.

I sense your confusion. Do you want her real back or more the dream you had about what this rs is?

When we have patterns of unhealthy rs, we tend to be inconsistent about our values. Perhaps you can explore little deeper what are your values and needs in a rs. Than you can look again if your needs and values are met in a rs with her.

[Wendell]

Hi Elsee,

I couldn't ignore your post, it hit close to home for me.  I'm sorry you are feeling so down and alone, you are in the right place. I hope I can offer a little support for you. 

I've been no contact with my ex for 7 months now but I remember wanting desperately for him to talk to me about the past, I was needing closure so badly.  The few times I was able to pin him down for a conversation it was painful to try and talk to him, he didn't seem to be able to give me the answers I so much needed and deserved.  It made him very uncomfortable and he couldn't seem to put a finger on his feelings for me which hurt badly.  He told me he knew he loved me but that he loved her too and that was about all he could give me.  Not very reassuring or comforting. 

Truthfully, I believe it's part of the intimacy issues that they have.  When things get too close for comfort, their natural instinct is to pull away from us, run away really.  Deep down she probably does want to be with you but the disorder doesn't allow for her to give you what you deserve.  What you feel for her and wanted desperately is more or less just a dream, the potential of what you wanted it to be, but it will never be that desired reality unfortunately.  Part of what I've learned in my healing process is that I too had a dream of what I wanted, I placed him neatly in that dream/scenario of "my ideal" and had it all figured out how it was supposed to play out.  Unfortunately, just like in a real dream, eventually you have to wake up and reality takes over again.   

I am of the belief that they love us to the best of their ability.  What they feel in the moment is truly real for them.  However, it doesn't last.  She wants you to be there for her but she's not capable of giving you what you deserve, a real and true relationship.  You deserve better than "friends with benefits."  Try and distance yourself.  The kindest thing you can do for YOU is to go no contact.  The last seven months have allowed me to heal.  I no longer miss the dream, I'm thankful to be out of it and working on me now.  You deserve to be happy with someone who can give you all of themselves, not just bits and pieces.

I hope you have a Merry Christmas.     

[Justadude]

Do I have any advice? Look up relationship recycling and then tell us how you relate to that.

From what I read, your situation is incompatible. You guys broke up. You like her a lot and It seems like she does not have the capacity to return a long term commitment. She wants friends with sex. You want the whole package and your risk level for being emotionally hurt by her is on a scale of 0-10 a 20.

My advice take more time away from her. Give yourself a goal like two weeks then see how you feel and reasses.

[Elsegundo]

I never thanked you all for your advice and support.  I re-read your replies like 3 times--they were helpful.  And I feel so much better now w/NC.  Been reading up on the tools and workshops.  Such good stuff to know in general!

[bpdspell]

Any advice?  My moments of clarity are mixed w confusion.

It is really difficult to accept a friends with benefits situation with our BPD significant others. Chances are that you are more than emotionally attached to her. I'm sure you love her, desire her and want her completely.

Elsee. We love them, we're enmeshed, we're bonded to them, and we have high hopes for ever lasting love with them. To accept reduced benefits when we desire more is honestly shooting ourselves in the foot.

After our first recycle my ex admitted to "taking things slow" with another person.     I somehow accepted the new "status" of our once white hot intimate relationship.  He explained that he couldn't accept my demands for mature reciprocal love so out of my own desperation we tried the FWB route. I desensitized myself when he limited his availability to me, I drank to numb my feelings of humiliation and sadness. I figured if I didn't accept his limited crumbs he'd be gone for good. I can now admit that those were some of my lowest days during my time with him. He had me right were he wanted me: in limbo and in the midst of triangulation (read definition). It was all so painful, crippling and demoralizing.

Elsee. It's very painful to accept them on these terms. Sex can only have but so much power. After a while the sex will feel numbing and empty. Your heart wants more and in the long run you'll only hurt your self-esteem more by settling for far less than what you want.

Spell

[Elsegundo]

Thanks for your advice, and sharing.

I've managed to not engage in the FWB, and did try the friend thing for a minute, but can't be done.  Now I'm just debating whether or not I need to block her number or if I think I can resist when she texts me next (my guess is within the week). I think I'll be proud of ignoring her, and it'll be healing.  I did manage NC for a few weeks.  I just want to accept that it's dead.  The weird thing is that I actually think I have now, which helped me not do booty calls.  Then I ask myself why I keep the door open in some way, and I wonder if like many folks its the fixer?  Whatever it is, she has other people that can do it.

And since we live so close we will definitely keep running into each other so being friends-ish would help.  But in truth, I don't need anything from her to smile and keep walking, or grab my drink and head to the back of the local pub, away from her. 

[seeking balance]

Now I'm just debating whether or not I need to block her number or if I think I can resist when she texts me next (my guess is within the week). I think I'll be proud of ignoring her, and it'll be healing. 

A different perspective ... .  If you we're on a diet to lose weight would you keep chips and chocolate at your house to prove to yourself you can do it?   

If you are really done, be strong today and block the number... .  why go through another sure round of drama?

[Jay08]

Personally, i tried the FWB thing and it doesnt work out only because when you are hanging out you both act/feel like your in a relationship but your not, at least not to her.

After she finds someone else you will no longer even be FWB. If your ex has any decency (which it sounds like she does considering she is talking to you in a mature way) she'll try to maintain a friendship, but how are you going to react when she is having sex with another guy?

And by now im sure you know, once they find someone else, you are out of the picture for a while. Better to end things on your term brother. Keep the power you got.

And if you know shes going to be at the same bar, why dont you go somewhere else? Seeing her with another guy is going to have all those chemicals rushing back to your head and you will make a mistake.

Go out with some buddies and find some other women to flirt with.

[DepressIsolatedMeg]

Hey Elsee, sorry to hear about what you have gone through.

Sounds like your ex is using the "pull and push" tactic... and you fell for it. She doesn't necessary mean to do it, but it got to be very hard on you because this kept messing up your head. It feels like - oh there's hope. Oh, there is not. Oh wait there is still hope. Oh, there is not again.

My ex did the same thing to me (not a booty call though ) He would say he want to see me, but on the day we are suppose to meet, he stopped answering his phone and left me wondering. At first, I freaked out, I blew up his phone because I was wondering what it is going on, this gave him an opportunity to project his fault at me. After two times, I just let it be. I think to myself he was playing games, and I refused to fall for it. I don't over react anymore, and he started to behave a lot better. When I stopped falling for it, he stopped playing the game.

I'm not saying your ex is play games too. But at least subconsciously she was messing up with your head - by doing this, she made you to want her more, made you to wonder if there is another chance to be with her again - because she needs to feel wanted.

So I suggest, even you want her back really bad, keep reminding yourself not to expect too much from her. If she says she want to meet, great, don't get excited too early, because there will be a chance she cancel. If she does meet you in the end, then great! Enjoy those time with her.

[Wooddragon]

Personally, i tried the FWB thing and it doesnt work out only because when you are hanging out you both act/feel like your in a relationship but your not, at least not to her.

.

this is so true.  i have done the "benefits" thing as well.  now i am trying to pull away from it but when i indicate that its not what i want, he immediately offers exclusivity.  i know this relationship can never work and i have made no plans to see him in the future.  however we are still on "friendly" terms and rather than give me the opportunity to make my "i just cant do this any more" speech, (by pressuring me to see him) he has retreated to "concerned friend" mode (i am moving house, i live in a bushfire area in australia surrounded by forest and this week has been very hot and dangerous).  this is very hard to resist because it seems so reasonable, reassuring and comforting.

although clearly i need to not see him, it is nearly impossible for me to not respond when he contacts me and is being concerned and helpful and reasonable. 

i would like to say that i wish i had never shagged him again but to be honest, it has given me a form of closure.  i can see that he is sometimes irrational in his descriptions of people and situations, i can see that i will eventually diminish in importance to him and he will increasingly dangle other women in front of me (verbally anyway).  i can see that i need to let go of this but its far easier said than done. 

[Justadude]

I had this convo with my ex this past summer. I was dating another girl, she felt threatened. So she pressed on it by getting dressed in a hot dress, doing the make up, and just looking soo good. She drops off our daughter and she's all in my personal space and I'm getting an erection. But I hold off. My daughter is way more important than making an impulsive feel bad mistake that ends up being selfish.

Anyway turns out she was dating some other guy. That's respectable, right?

So I rather than dance around the emotions and keep them inside (my point), I confronted her on the phone. I said if we have sex, I'll think it means something more. She said it would only be just sex to her. My big point is that if she is BPD or he or whatever their motivation will make sense if you confront them in a caring, loving, and respectful way. My ex is so impulsive she just spits words out without thinking.

What I am really trying to say is, if you have an issue confront them but not where they feel threatened it will help gain clarity. Most people with BPD do not really care even thou you think they do.

[BleedsOrange]

Good job on not accepting FWB. Personally, I dont think sex for the sake of sex is a bad thing. Hell, I quite enjoy it Yet, this is not just a thing with BPD relationships. You should never enter a relationship where you are not on equal footing, one way or another. If they want more, if you want more, sexually or emotionally. It is just a bit of a heightened threat with the things that we have already been through and would be seting ourselves up for again.

Wow, I just preached to the choir! Again Smart decision!