Is there anybody having the same problem?

[Survive2012]

Good morning.

Our son, 15yo, "hates" us. He says every bad thing is his parents' fault. In the evening, we can't seat peacefully in the living room as he wants to be alone. If we don't go he becomes aggressive.

Now, we want the tv and the computer in the living room because if we put them in his room he will isolate himself there. At least in the living room there are people passing and there is "life"... .

What do you do if three people are suffering and one is the "dictator" (suffering as well)? Is it really good to keep validating, SET and everything for him while there are three people who can't live peacefully in the house?

Please, I need advice! Today I really don't feel empathetic! Forgive me, I see from your messages you are always so sweet with your BPD children... .I sometimes feel very angry!

Survive2012

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Thursday]

Good morning survive,

I see from your messages you are always so sweet with your BPD

Is it ok if I  ?

I'm sure EVERYONE here has had many, many moments where they felt they were not "so sweet" to their pwBPD. I am a step-mother to BPD and while I haven't had a lot of moments where I was actively involved in not being so sweet, (as I defer to her Dad for her discipline)  I've seen my BPDSD21 bring her Dad to his knees with frustration and despair for her and he's certainly yelled loudly, screamed. figuratively torn his hair out and one particularly bad day they exchanged F bombs to each other. (she started and he followed... .ugh)

The dictator you describe as your son is familiar... .and clearly show how out of balance things are. Survive, 15 is just plain hard and with this mental illness of BPD, it is just about impossible.

The practices of Validation and SET are an effective way of regaining balance on various levels. One of these levels is to put you back in the driver's set of parenting. I know they are hard to enact initially but keep using them and you will get back something... .don't know how much, can't tell you how much but using these practices will eventually help you with your son... .if nothing but to help you feel back in control, more even, more like yourself.

Keep reading and you will find that everyone here (for the most part, ) is human and fallible and capable of unleashing the beast that BPD has created in their hearts as they see it so negatively impacting the child they love, as they see this disorder destroying their peaceful homelife... .

SD came to visit yesterday for Christmas. This is the third Christmas in a row that she has failed to participate in gift giving. Not cool... .but what am I going to do? She is her Dad's only child and he would be miserable were she not to be invited to be with us. So, there is a blanket invitation... .

She showed up on time. (yay)

She was wearing her pajamas. (boo... .I don't approve of grown ups being out in public in pajamas... .a pet peeve of mine that we have had struggles over in the past so... .boo)

She f-bomed at least 25 times before we began opening gifts. (boo)

She enjoyed and complimented the food. (yay)

Whenever anyone got up to cook, clean or serve the others and there was a pause in what we were doing SD went outside to smoke cigarettes and never offered to help with anything. (boo)

She stayed and visited until a "better" offer came up. (boo)

She left the bathroom a mess after I allowed her to shower before she left to go to the movies with her cronies. (boo... .she has a shower where she lives but for some reason she didn't stay there the night before and hadn't had a shower)

So, while there were nice moments her behavior certainly isn't what one would want from their kid. We would prefer that she embrace the positive qualities of generosity, frugality, focus, hardwork and wish she would clean up her language. It also would have been really nice if she didn't have yet another ugly tattoo on (wait for it) her neck as I do worry that nobody will ever hire her with two neck tattoos and the many piercings she now has. She is currently unemployed although she does start a new job day after tomorrow. It won't pay her bills but at least she will spend part of her day earning some money.

I've now, finally, after the last seven years in her life, quit expecting behavior she isn't really capable of, at least for now. I had a boundary before we ever started opening gifts that if she wasn't on time we would go ahead without her. There is also a boundary in place that if she acts with hostility towards any of us, she will be asked to leave. I don't have expectations that she will contribute or help me. I am always happily surprised if she does.

Try to figure out your boundaries around your son's behavior. Try to pinpoint your must-haves and in a quieter moment present these boundaries  to him. The hope is that he won't be caught off guard and react negatively when you hold to them. It probably won't happen the first or second time you hold firm but he will eventually get the message.

We know you love your son. We all also know how very difficult it is to use the practices you speak of. But the truth is, while it may seem we do some of these things to smooth things over, they can really help you to regain your center and that can only be a good thing.

Read around and you will begin to see more and more the beginnings of our struggles with our BPD kids, the struggle to find the path and then the blessed peace that we begin to find as we use the tools we can learn here.

I promise!

thursday

.

[Survive2012]

Thank you Thursday!

You gave me one ray of sunshine in today's gray 26th December.

I can't use boundaries with my son. They just don't work... .He will do the opposite of what is needed. For example, if I say "If you insult me I will not let you the computer", he insults and then disturbs in all the activities I am doing around (work, clean, anything) until, really, giving him the computer sounds the better option just to keep on living in the house.

We are very worn out, my husband and I, and my other son 18, we are not succeeding in getting to any point with our son 15. We are losing hope. He doesn't want therapy.

Anyway, thanks for sharing the fact that we are not the only ones that feel angry sometimes.

Have a good afternoon,

Survive

[almostvegan]

Oh I so understand! I feel like our daughter ruined our possibilities. We want desperately to get out of our tiny NYC apartment. We can't. She refuses to move away from her friends threatens to self harm and be depressed. We also feel that since ny state has good mental health supports its wise to stay put. But we hate it. Feel like she's the dictator. Meanwhile our other two kids suffer.

I also felt setting limits etc didn't work. Her answer was " yeah? What are you going to do to me?" She didn't care about anything so consequences were pointless. Only added strife and agony in the home.

Believe me, you're not alone in this. ( not that helps always)

My daughter is homeschooled so we can never escape her.now I'm just sitting in my car so I don't have to go home and be with her.  It's an awful life for a parent to live.

Peace to you.

[whiletheseasonspass]

Dear Survive  

I'm sorry that it feels like your son is the tail wagging the dog.  That must be very difficult.  Where your son is a minor- can't you force the issue of Therapy even if it has to start as a family therapy so that you will know your son is not snowing the T?  Unless I missed something - have you tried this route?  

My dd is an adult.  Back when dd was @14-14  we did go to family T.  The T was terrible but I did not know this until I looked back when dd was no longer a minor.   I was so naive- in my attempts to improve our situation and save our dd back then AND make our family healthier.  

I wish I had gone to a pediatric psychiatrist perhaps- we had a good one around here and if I really checked I would have found him... .he was more talk than drugs but again I just trusted the T we went to that was of no help.  I also wish I (myself) kept going to T's until I found the one who was equipped- trained in difficult child issues and that I had learned about - ODD (oppositional defiance disorder- sounds like your son might have this- I did NOT know about that back then- the term- what it was).  I am only talking in retrospect now.  Also I wonder why did I NOT go to a private pediatric psych hospital we have in our state for a consult- and describe the situation- turns out it has a great reputation.  Maybe I felt defeated I don't know or maybe I thought it was teen stuff that would blow over.  I was also ill too so that slowed me down.  

But if I had another chance- which I don't-  that would have been my priority if I had the knowledge I have now even having been ill back then-so yeah now I have the knowledge but dd is no longer a minor and my knowledge-  most of it came from this board- by reading posts.

I hope if you stay on this board and read read read others' posts and books suggested- so that you will gain what you need to- that knowledge to at least try- what might work.  I hope you do not give up.  Again- finding the right T is key to start this process as a start in my opinion... .someone who is really smart- and knows about difficult child issues.  

I also hope that others here can offer additional suggestions to you.  

I wish you the best.

 

wtsp

[Being Mindful]

Thank you Thursday!

You gave me one ray of sunshine in today's gray 26th December.

I can't use boundaries with my son. They just don't work... .He will do the opposite of what is needed. For example, if I say "If you insult me I will not let you the computer", he insults and then disturbs in all the activities I am doing around (work, clean, anything) until, really, giving him the computer sounds the better option just to keep on living in the house.

We are very worn out, my husband and I, and my other son 18, we are not succeeding in getting to any point with our son 15. We are losing hope. He doesn't want therapy.

Anyway, thanks for sharing the fact that we are not the only ones that feel angry sometimes.

Have a good afternoon,

Survive

Survive, Boundaries are for you, not your son. They are not there to control him or punish him. Boundaries are completely yours for you.

Thursday's post has some very good points, including that with using validation and SET that you can reset the balance. This takes time, effort and consistency. For us, using boundaries, validation and SET were our first steps to huge improvement.

Let us know if you need help with any of these skills.

Being Mindful

[llbee814]

Sweet has left the building for me, !  Boundaries don't work for my dd17, either, but they do help the rest of us to live more peacefully.  Aggressiveness is unacceptable and will continue to escalate, in my experience, until you make it clear to them that you will not tolerate it.  For me it came down to following through with 911 calls, and believe me I tolerated waaaay too much beforehand.  Hindsight, I should have done it sooner.  It's such a rotten position to be in, but it does give you the upper hand at that age regarding their behavior.  It can also help with getting through to them that they need to tow the line with your expectations regarding therapy for the situation.  They won't like it (hell, none of us do) and it is not a cure-all, but it can be a positive starting point to gaining back some control of your lives. You are doing the right thing with the Tv and computer in the living room and I can just imagine how hard that is for you all.  Only you can decide how far you are willing to accommodate his issues, but I can say that I get far less angry these days and she exhibits far more self-control,  now that my daughter knows there are limits.  I love her dearly, but have no problem telling her that I will not be held hostage by her.  These days when she's really "dysregulated" (great euphemism for bat-PLEASE READ crazy, cursing out-of-contol and especially hating me  ) I just tell her that "I know" and "I'm not real thrilled with you, at the moment, either.  We will continue this later."  For some reason,  "later" usually happens really quickly now. I think it's because she hears "my truth" and not b/s.  She doesn't want that moment, either, none of our kids do. Honestly, we still have plenty of those moments (far too many ) but they are far less damaging and destructive to us all.  Hang in there!   

[trainwreck4]

Survive 2012,

  Let me share with you my most recent (a week and a half before finding this site) bad parenting moments. I missed two of my BPDd15's Christmas concerts because I was afraid I would feel compelled to speak to her in the middle of her trumpet solos about her refusal to feed her pet pig. I didn't/couldn't speak to her for a week and a half. Not because I don't love her, but this last thing was the proverbial straw. I also during this time had her siblings ask her to shut her loud music off at bedtime for the small kids. When she refused, I went and shut the hydro off for her room. This was not a glowing moment in my motherhood carreer, I was ANGRY.  I think we all have these moments, because we are only human.  At the time, my empathy for her was zero. I have since apologized and exlained myself, and I think it may have been good for her tohear I was angry and why I was angry. Good luck and we ALL have warts that show sometimes... .

[Survive2012]

Oh thank tou so much for your warm support and for sharing the moments when we are not acting well for our kids!

Yes, Being Mindful, please, I think I need explanations about boundaries... .How do they work? Did I get them wrong?

As for violence. Unfortunately, sons are stronger than moms and, when your husband is not there you have to give up sometimes.

I feel just like Almostvegan: waiting a little more time in the car before going home... .Home has become a place which is so full of sorrow.

I feel very sad during these holydays period. Everybody stays at home, families gather, laugh, chat, have fun. We miss this a lot.

Please, give me explanation about boundaries... .why for us and not for him?

Have a good afternoon,

Survive

[griz]

Survive2012:  I don't know if this will help at all but I too never set boundaries when my DD17 first started showing her BPD behavior.  For me it started with self harming behaviors so I literally jumped through hoops to make her happy.  What ever she wanted she got and anything she did I excused because I was so afraid to upset the apple cart.  Well it didn't happen overnight but I decided to make a deal with myself.  I would pick out one thing that I wanted to work on, for me this was her talking back and using bad language, so I decided to draw my line in the sand.  If she would start with her backtalk and insults I would just tell her I was not going to engage in anymore conversation until she could talk to me in a respectful way.  The beginning was horrible.  The more I didn't engage the crazier it made her.  I remember times when I almost gave in just to make her stop but I promised myself that  wouldn't.  I would just walk away and if she followed me I would go to my room and close the door.  Eventually she got the message and although things are not perfect all the time they are much better.

Oh and by the way I could tell you plenty of my more unmotherly like behaviors like the day I told everyone in my family that I was sick of them and I didn't want to be part of the family anymore and then I wouldn't answer my phone for hours. (Now that's really one for the Crappy Mother of the Year Award)

Griz

[Survive2012]

Thank you Griz!

Halas, my son doesn't want to speak to us. He insults and say horrible things to us but if I keep silent and don't speak to him he doesn't mind at all... .

What are boundaries? why are they for us and not for him? how do they work?

When he is not at home he is smily, nice, kind and seems happy. Everybody says we exagerate. Life at home is like hell. The psyc understands we do not exagerate and is aware our son needs help.

Thanks for sharing.

Have a good day,

Survive

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[LearningToAccept]

Survival,

One boundary for me is not to allow dd28 to curse in front of dd10. When she starts cursing with dd10 around I just look at her at say 'remember'. This usually makes her very upset and she goes to her room... .slamming the door. Yesterday on a short trip she became upset at a text and started to curse in a car full of children. I told her we would talk about the text later but not in the car.

Like they wisely tell us here, boundaries are for our protection and the protection of others in our home. When dd28 starts ranting, raving and using profane language, I am reduced to a ball of nerves and in this state I am useless and totally unable to be of any support to anyone.

I have a long road to go and myths worst isn't over as it appears dd28 will be separating from her dh and it is not going to be pretty.

Learning

[Survive2012]

Dear LearningToAccept,

Thank you.

I have tried several times to tell our son I wouldn't accept insulting, hitting etc. He does it all the same. He doesn't care if we ask him to do something (or NOT to do something). On the contrary: he does the opposite on purpose!

Yes, I agree, a separation from her husband will be heavy on your daughter. I feel sorry for this!

Have a good evening,

Survive

[lbjnltx]

Being Mindful has started a new thread on Boundaries here on the Supporting Board.  Here is the link:


https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=191119.0

[Kate4queen]

My son was the same. By the time he left, we'd all retreated to our own rooms because No One wanted to fight him for access to the big. T.V. downstairs, eat a meal with him or spend any time chatting as a family because he controlled everything. I didn't even realize how bad it had got until he was no longer there and everyone else ventured downstairs like little timid animals who could finally share some family time.

At 15, 16, we tried everything to get him to stop being aggressive and rude to us. We took everything away from him and grounded him. all that did was make him stay home and start trouble with us. I wish I'd realized then what we were dealing with and made boundaries for myself, not for him, but for the rest of the family and followed through.

What we did learn when he was 16 was to let him follow through on his various threats. It was hard to watch him suffer but we had to stop saving him.

I think you need to decide what you can tolerate in 'your' house and calmly tell him those things and keep reinforcing the consequences. He won't like it, and you will have to be tough at times, but try and follow through.

Good luck.

[Survive2012]

Thanks Ibjntx,

I find the new thread very interesting and useful!

Kate4queen, it seems we are having a similar situation as you had. When did your son moved away from the family home, and how?

Have a good day!

Survive

[heronbird]

Hi survive 2012,

Yes yours is a common one, its good you have been so honest, you will work through things by asking for help like this. We too have had the same things.

One thing you could try, have you noticed at times your ds is in a normal./good mood and happy to talk, even if it is only for 2 mins, grab your opportunity ask him, what would you like me to do when you aare in your room, do you really want us to keep away? how can I help you, it makes me sad when you are not happy.

I remember when my dd used to do that, well she did it for about 2 years at least. I used to go in her room at my own risk haha, she used to scream at me GET OUT etc I just wanted to hug her but she wouldnt let me, it was so horrible.

So I waited untill she was ok and I would ask her. She told me to leave her and she would be ok. So I did and that worked.

She did tell a P once that she felt I didnt care because I never came in her room to see her when she was upset or I never ran after her when she would run away crying, but the P said to her that she would go mad at me if I tried, then dd said yes thats true, you cant win really.

[Survive2012]

Good evening Heronbird,

Thank you for the very useful advice you give me.

Well, I have been trying to ask. He says the less he sees us the better.

I have dramatically different feelings for him. When he hits me I sometimes really hate him and in the same time I feel so sorry for him because I see he suffers and is very very sad. As soon as he is not insulting or violent, I feel the strongest love for him.

I find it so difficult to talk with him. He always says he only hopes we die or things like the day of our death will be the happiest of his life. I know he doesn't really mean it but those words stab me.

[heronbird]

Wow, survive 2012, thats horrid isnt it. So sorry to hear that. So he hits you does he? Has he got a diagnosis? Sorry if you said, I didnt read that.

So Im not sure but if he is hitting, could it be ASPD that he has, Im not sure but worth looking into.

Yes, we dont hate our children, we all love them dearly we just hate their behaviour. And when my dd is ok, she is the most amazing loveliest person in the world.

I am not sure if your son is in the right mood if he is still saying those sort of things to you. Its all in the wording mind you. Just change your wording and wow, its like magic

Have you read Valerie Porrs book, sorry I always go on about that, its just that since I read that book, things got so much better, I used her strategies and she helped me to believe in myself. You are probably doing everything right but its just if you could have some tools to help you, this book would help you so much.

It hurts so bad when they say stuff to us like they hate us or anything like that. I dont know, I think if my dd hit me, Id have to call the Police, and I would want her out. I could not tolerate that. Still I never wanted to do that because that was her worse fear and imagine her being in a Police cell all night, so invalidating for her. Not to mention loosing my relationship with her, I never wanted that to happen.

Im going to try to read your older posts and see what you say about diagnosis etc

[heronbird]

Hi again,

just read about his room, well if he cant behave he shouldnt be allowed in the living room, he shouldnt be allowed a TV or anything, get a job and buy it yourself. You feel bullied in your own home dont you  

We have felt like that too, in fact I remember saying about my non BPD son, if he does not go Im going. Why should we be paying over £1000 a month for a mortgage to be treated like this, so discussing.

Survive, remember you are important, look after you. You are worth a lot so dont allow yourself to be bullied, its so hard isnt it.

Remember he needs you though too. We have to protect ourselves so that we dont take it personally gosh so hard.

Im hoping that you have a good 2013, you survived 2012

[Survive2012]

Thanks so much for your support, Heronbird.

Our son hasn't got a diagnosis yet. He will have in a few months, though, as the psyc team of our city will approach him. They will help. They are a VERY good team and they work for under 18yo.

Yes, he hits me, but he is careful not to hit too hard (I can notice this).

It is so painful (in the heart, not in the body), but I know when this happens he is really in despair.

Anyway, we have the tv and the computer in the living room and there they will stay because we don't want him to isolate himself. But there is no way we can say what he must or mustn't do in this period. He just will do the opposite.

Thanks, Heronbird. I wish you too a very good and happy new year,

Survive  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Survive2012]

P.S I am reading Valerie Porr's book. Indeed, it is very useful and full of good advice!

[Kate4queen]

Thanks Ibjntx,

I find the new thread very interesting and useful!

Kate4queen, it seems we are having a similar situation as you had. When did your son moved away from the family home, and how?

Have a good day!

Survive

He finally moved out in October 2012 just before his 21st birthday after a massive fall-out over his scheduled spinal surgery. He was very stressed about the surgery (obviously) but also determined that even though we were paying for it he would be in complete control of every aspect of it. (He is incredibly smart) When we eventually got to meet the surgeon it was obvious our son had told him we were terrible parents who didn't want to be involved at all (typical lying). On the way back from the appt he screamed and raved at us in the car for 'smiling' at the surgeon. We tried to support him and he threw it in our faces, nothing we said or did was right, and eventually after we asked him to treat us with respect in our home while we supported him, he flipped out and stormed out to live with the parents of a friend of his about 3 miles away.

So he's safe with them at least. And since his behavior since then has been vicious and horrible toward us, he's not coming home again. This sounds weird, but we're glad both that he is out of our house, and that he is in a safe place. We've made financial arrangements with him to see him through to June 2013 and then after that he is free to become the emancipated person he said he wanted to be.

This sounds a lot easier than it is. We are both heartbroken that it's come to this but we have to protect ourselves and our other children. He has to take some responsibility for his behavior.

[Survive2012]

Thank you, Kate4queen,

I am sorry you had to undergo all this. I sure understand your relief in knowing he is away but in a safe place. Our son is younger, only 15. He went to his aunt for a few days. We relaxed SO MUCH! At his aunt's, he behaved very normally (he always does when not at home) but as soon as he entered the home, the terror was again wuth us.  I am so sad he is so unhappy!

Have a good day,

Survive

[Kate4queen]

Thank you, Kate4queen,

I am sorry you had to undergo all this. I sure understand your relief in knowing he is away but in a safe place. Our son is younger, only 15. He went to his aunt for a few days. We relaxed SO MUCH! At his aunt's, he behaved very normally (he always does when not at home) but as soon as he entered the home, the terror was again wuth us.  I am so sad he is so unhappy!

Have a good day,

Survive

You've got a handle on what is wrong with your son a lot earlier than we did, and I'm sure because of that you'll deal better with it than we did when we were wandering around in the dark. I wish you all the best.

[Survive2012]

Hello, Kate4queen,

We lost three precious years at first thinking it was normal adolescence, then seeking the help of a psychologist who said if our son did not want to go to therapy there was nothing to do. Now, at last, we found a very good team of a children neuropsychiatric ward of the hospital who told us that almost every patient "doesn't want to go to therapy" and therefore they have side steps they can take (with the school or directly at home) to get in touch with the child. But we lost three precious years.

Life has become so difficult at home.

Have a good day,

Survive