How to prepare kids for GAL visit?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Last spring when we were still in the same house, we had a visit from CPS. Stbx was so stressed that she really was aggressive in trying to prepare the kids for the caseworker's visit. She kept telling them that a mean lady was going to come and try to take them away, and that they had to make sure to tell her that Mommy was good, etc. My response was to wait until she wasn't around and then I told the kids that the lady was not mean, and that she just wanted to know the truth about what happened and that they shouldn't be afraid of her. We lucked out because when the caseworker showed up, she was really good about interacting with the kids. They ended up showing her all of their toys and later wanted to know when she was going to come back and play with them again.

Knowing stbx as I do, I expect her to take the same approach with the GAL, trying to coach the kids on what she wants them to say. Once again, I will try to prepare the kids by telling them that the GAL is not a mean person and that they should just tell her the truth.

However, there are a few things that make me wonder whether I should be a bit more proactive. I don't like the idea of trying to use the kids as a weapon, even though she will certainly do that, but in the past few days the kids have made the following unsolicited remarks:

(1) ":)addy, do you remember how sometimes when you were at work, Mommy used to go outside to get a breath air and leave us all alone where we couldn't see her." (She was going outside to smoke and would go around the corner out of sight of the door or windows so they kids couldn't see her smoking.)

(2) ":)addy, sometimes Mommy lies and says you and x,y,z [members of my family] are bad. I tried to tell her you're not bad and she shouted at me that I don't know what I'm talking about."

It seems to me I could always remind them about these things and suggest that they could tell the GAL about those and any other similar things. Or should I just trust the process?

[rogerroger]

Last spring when we were still in the same house, we had a visit from CPS. Stbx was so stressed that she really was aggressive in trying to prepare the kids for the caseworker's visit. She kept telling them that a mean lady was going to come and try to take them away, and that they had to make sure to tell her that Mommy was good, etc. My response was to wait until she wasn't around and then I told the kids that the lady was not mean, and that she just wanted to know the truth about what happened and that they shouldn't be afraid of her. We lucked out because when the caseworker showed up, she was really good about interacting with the kids. They ended up showing her all of their toys and later wanted to know when she was going to come back and play with them again.

Knowing stbx as I do, I expect her to take the same approach with the GAL, trying to coach the kids on what she wants them to say. Once again, I will try to prepare the kids by telling them that the GAL is not a mean person and that they should just tell her the truth.

However, there are a few things that make me wonder whether I should be a bit more proactive. I don't like the idea of trying to use the kids as a weapon, even though she will certainly do that, but in the past few days the kids have made the following unsolicited remarks:

(1) ":)addy, do you remember how sometimes when you were at work, Mommy used to go outside to get a breath air and leave us all alone where we couldn't see her." (She was going outside to smoke and would go around the corner out of sight of the door or windows so they kids couldn't see her smoking.)

(2) ":)addy, sometimes Mommy lies and says you and x,y,z [members of my family] are bad. I tried to tell her you're not bad and she shouted at me that I don't know what I'm talking about."

It seems to me I could always remind them about these things and suggest that they could tell the GAL about those and any other similar things. Or should I just trust the process?

[whirlpoollife]

I trusted the process and it was a mistake. I didn't realize how much my stbx influenced the GAL and kids, d12 and s14. Yes they are old enough to make up their minds but not  old enough to undersatand brainwashing techniques.  I was 24/7 do everything mom/homemaker / with part work. Close to kids, they came to me for everthing.

Stbx talked to GAL first, then to me, then kids. The GAL told me he didn't. want to hear about stbx as stbx overstayed his visit with GAL complaining about me. So I told him about what did as a parent to kids from birth.

I find out , to my shock, at custody review conference, the GAL determined the new schedulewhich gives more time to stbxh. GAL said right to me that the kids would rather live with their dad. I cried for days with the gut feeling that kids were influenced.

Later with bringing up talk to kids, they really didn't understand the visitation to each parent and what it meant.

My opinion is to have a calendar in front of kids and for yourself to have for GAL on differnt schedules. Ask kids now who they would prefer to live with the majority of the time. The weekends with whom?  You can try to tell the GAL waht you have done for kids , but in my case it made no difference.

Wish you the best outcome.

[Matt]

Roger, I'm sorry, I don't remember your kids' ages?

My experience was different than Whirlpool's.  Our Custody Evaluator was a psychologist appointed by the court.  I didn't prepare the kids (then 8 and 10) at all, except I explained what was happening - this doctor was coming to talk to us all and help work out how things would be for the kids longer term.  He was a nice, quiet man - I had met with him one-on-one earlier - and he talked alone with each kid, and sat while we all played a game and ate lunch - mundane stuff.

I focused on the kids not the CE.  I didn't coach them at all except to encourage them to talk with him about whatever they both wanted to talk about.

The report was fine - kinder to my ex than I would have expected, but reasonable.  It favored me a little but not as much as I wished.

I would not give the kids the idea that their preference is what matters, even if it might have some influence.  Focus on your state's criteria - your lawyer should know them or you can find them online - and what is real and genuine that you can put forward to support your case on each of those criteria.  For example, one of them is probably that you are able to support the kids' physical and mental health, so know their doctor's name and the last check-up they had.  Know their teachers' names and how they are doing in each class.  Be prepared to describe what you feed them and why.  Be prepared to talk about stuff you do with them, and any extra help each child needs in whatever areas.  My son was pretty introverted - not sure if it was a problem or not - so I was prepared to talk about that, and describe what I thought about it and what I was doing to help him in that area.

Let go of "Roger vs. Mrs. Roger" and focus on "How I help each kid".

[whirlpoollife]

Matt, near future there will be a CE, seperate from the GAL.

My new L said a GAL was never needed in first place. But now that damage is done, I have to go to a hearing (to get any more time with kids back) and my only evidence would be results from a CE test.

[ForeverDad]

In a reasonably normal situation, neither parent would talk about court cases in a blaming or distorted non-reality way, but ours are not reasonably normal situations.  I post this periodically, it is especially helpful for those of us unfamilar with the ins and outs of the legal system and how to deal with the posturing and attempted parental alienation, from Divorce Poison... .  

Divorce Poison, by Richard Warshak, starting with page 1, paragraph 1... .    (emphasis added)

Your ex-spouse is bad-mouthing you to the children, often or constantly portraying you in a negative light, perhaps even trying to turn the children against you.  What should you do? ... .  

The conventional advice is to do nothing.  Psychologists caution parents to avoid criticizing the other parent in front of the children... .    After years of consulting on cases where parents had heeded advice to be passive and had no success, I am convinced that the standard approach is wrong.  It does not work.  Often it makes things worse.  As relationships with their children progressively deteriorate, parents usually try desperately to reason with them.  Such efforts inevitably meet with failure and leave parents feeling helpless and hopeless.

This book explains why the common approaches are impotent, why doing nothing will accomplish nothing, and why relying primarily on reasoning is an unreasonable approach to the problem.  It offers a blueprint for an effective response grounded in a solid understanding of the techniques and dynamics of parents who poison their children's relationships with loved ones.

After reading this book you will be able to distinguish different types of criticism, ranging from occasional mild bad-mouthing to severe and systematic brainwashing.  You will know why and how parents manipulate their children.  You will know how to detect subtle psychological maneuvers in various guises.  You will learn how these practices - even those that seem innocuous - damage children.  And you will discover powerful strategies to preserve or rebuild loving relationships with your children... .  

Divorce Poison was written primarily on behalf of children... .    The failure of their parents' marriage is a chilling lesson that we cannot always count on love.  At such a vulnerable time in their lives, children especially need and deserve as much love as they can get.  Those who close off avenues of love and support detour children from their pursuit of emotional security.  And when they manipulate children into erecting the barriers themselves, when they enlist them as agents in their own deprivation, they violate their children's trust in a most cruel manner.  It is a form of kidnapping; stealing the soul.

I wrote this book to help lost souls find their way back to the hearts that await them.  I wish them a successful journey.

I had a GAL appointed to my case, not during the diovrce but during the proces where I was later seeking custody due to the continuing conflict and obstruction of my parenting.  The GAL was a very knowledgeable lawyer, even is on the editorial board of an ABA Children's Rights newletter.  However, she was conned by my ex's manipulation of my son.  He had always wanted more time with me, always said so over the years but as soon as ex found out a GAL had been appointed, my son started saying he thought equal time (what we then had in Shared Parenting) was good and didn't want it to change.  Yes, you don't have to guess where that came from.

Well, it worked, I have custody but GAL recommended parenting time stay equal since (1) son was okay with it and (2) this would allow ex to have child support and maybe she would be "more stable".  Well, about a year later I went back to court seeking majority time that was pooh-poohed the year before, there was continuing conflict, ex refusing to pay for things meant to be covered by child support (such as making lunches or paying for school lunches on her parenting days), ex threatening other parents with police and court if he had sleepovers with their kids, etc.  Of course the case is expensive, continues draining my resources, and progressing slowly in court...

[livednlearned]

Keep in mind, too, that GALs may ask your kids to tell them what each parent told them to say. If the GAL is good, he or she will want to know if the kids were coached.

I have a Parenting Coordinator involved in my case. A little different than a GAL, but the same in that it's a 3rd party professional trying to figure out what's going on in a high-conflict divorce. S11 told her, "My mom doesn't say mean things about my dad, but my dad says mean things about my mom."

That's a big parental alienation flag -- the trash talking to your kids about the other parent.

Doesn't mean you can't nudge your kids to say things that will help your case, just that you have to be extra careful in how they are encouraged to say it. Maybe you tell them, "GAL might want to know when you feel safe and when you feel afraid, and who takes care to make sure you feel safe. Can you think of times that made you feel scared? Tell GAL the truth."

[sanemom]

Roger, I'm sorry, I don't remember your kids' ages?

My experience was different than Whirlpool's.  Our Custody Evaluator was a psychologist appointed by the court.  I didn't prepare the kids (then 8 and 10) at all, except I explained what was happening - this doctor was coming to talk to us all and help work out how things would be for the kids longer term.  He was a nice, quiet man - I had met with him one-on-one earlier - and he talked alone with each kid, and sat while we all played a game and ate lunch - mundane stuff.

I find that the GALs with mental health experience are FAR BETTER qualified than those who are lawyers.  I think many lawyers (not all) are narcissists and tend to gravitate towards people with PDs.  I know that is a stereotypical comment, but I have friends who have dealt with a lot of the collateral damage caused by a lawyer GAL who clearly did not put too much thought into the job.  My experience was also bad, but it isn't the only bad experience I have heard caused by a lawyer GAL.  (not to say that there are not some good lawyer GALs--there are--but many people without PD experience can be easily swayed by a convincing PD).

[ForeverDad]

I had a GAL appointed to my case, not during the divorce but during the process where I was later seeking custody due to the continuing conflict and obstruction of my parenting.  The GAL was a very knowledgeable lawyer, even is on the editorial board of an ABA Children's Rights newletter.  However, she was conned by my ex's manipulation of my son.  He had always wanted more time with me, always said so over the years but as soon as ex found out a GAL had been appointed, my son started saying he thought equal time (what we then had in Shared Parenting) was good and didn't want it to change.  Yes, you don't have to guess where that came from.

Well, it worked, I have custody but GAL recommended parenting time stay equal since (1) son was okay with it and (2) this would allow ex to have child support and maybe she would be "more stable".

Perhaps I ought to clarify what I wrote above.  At the time the GAL had spoken with my son when he said he was okay with the schedule the way it was - and I had stated he only said that after his mother learned of a GAL appointment - he was 8 years old.  I've often heard that courts don't let children 'choose' one parent over the other until they're nearly or already in their teens, 12-14 is typical, maybe giving some consideration from children as young as 10.  So this was an experienced GAL who recommended that the custodial parent after the end of Shared Parenting not get majority time and some of the decision was based on an 8 year old's responses.