Does she really hate me?

[OFFtheTopRope]

I need validation.  I gave her love, my time, money, friendship, support thru (her) tough times.  Toward the end, it was so hard to sacrifice my need to really talk about where things were going with us.  Her moods, lies and excuses wore on my last nerve.  I stayed open and honest, expressing a need to look after myself.  I didnt wanna be played and become another of her string of jilted "stalkers".  I put my foot down many times and was reassured it wouldnt happento ME.  It did... .and thats where we are now. 

Smearing, lying, projecting, shaming me, stalking me, denying, betrayals, freezing me completely out.  No explanation, just told to move on and stop caring about her.  what the heck man?  So she embarked to make me hate her back.  I havent.  I cant. 

I want someone to theorize or explain the BPD "hate" in a way i might feel validated and try to wrap my head around.  Also, how long might i expect it to last?  I cant live with knowing someone i care about beyond words detests and wants to destroy me. 

[DepressIsolatedMeg]

this is how I put it when my BPDex told me I'm the ugliest person he'd ever known in his life and told me I am going to hell when I told him I was breaking up with him... .

The more anger they get, the more they loved. It doesn't make any sense to normal people, but what we encounter are BPDs... .

believe the good time was real. We came as an individual and we will leave this world as an individual... .memories are what we are going to leave with. Take the good and leave the bad behind... .hope you can find peace very soon

P.S. Praying will help a lot in this kind of situation. I'm praying every day and night to hope some day things will work out for me and my BPDex.

[Tausk]

Hey there OFFtTR:  I'm sorry for your pain.  I understand.  In fact I'd bet almost everyone on this board understands. I was so hard for me to grasp that at one moment I was idolized and the next I was painted black and hated.

the pain, confusion, dismay, and hurt are so very real in us and so very deep.  I spent most of four years trying to help her, trying to support her, and trying to ease her pain.  I lost myself in the process, but I thought that it was more than worth it.  And in the end, I was betrayed and led to believe that it was my fault.

I can see now that it is the disorder. It's important not to take things personally because it's part of the disorder.  I don't take it personally when a homeless mentally ill man yells at me in the street.  I'm trying not to take my ex's behavior personally either.   My ex gfwBPD sees and feels only in the moment and only in black and white terms.  I'm either all good or or all bad.  And she's really just a terrified child who is a prisoner of her very real lifelong nightmare.  My ex only has survival skills, and one of those is to devalue. this allows her to justify any and all of her actions without remorse or responsibility.  But that's because she doesn't have the skills or capacity for remorse or responsibility.

Some of this might not make sense now, but it will.  Just know that you're not alone.  What you're feeling is not unusual.  And please continue to tell us more.  Vent here to be validated.  I was never validated in arguments or discussions with my ex.  But here, people understand.  

They understood how I could be so angry, yet still want to support my ex.  how I could at one moment be loved forever and the next be hated forever.  How I could never find validation or closure.  And how I could so easily be discarded, like an old pair of shoes, even after all the sacrifices that I had made.

Stay on the board.  I understand.  Others understand.  I learned that i wasn't alone, I wasn't crazy, and that my essence wasn't the shame and anger that I felt but rather my essence is the strength of character that I always knew that I had.  I hope and believe that you will find the same here.

in support

SP

[Surnia]

OfftheTopRope

Yes, it can so relate to your feelings. Sacrificing the own needs, trying to talk, and at the end we find us shattered, confronted with denial or hate.

I feel sorry about your struggles. It reminds me my shattered marriage. For a long time I could not understand all the blaming my now x husband gave me. Slowly I realized: It is not all about me. It is also a mirror about him. He is such a unhappy person sometimes. He has no genuine self-love. And it was also a mirror about me: Sacrificing the own needs is not a healthy thing. My self-love is problematic too.

Answering your post here I realized I dont know not much about your rs.

Can you tell us little more?

How long was your relationship?

How long since it ended?

Is she diagnosed?

[really]

I don't think you will get validation - from her or from here.    The route through is acceptance.

I could have written your post almost word for word about my situation.  Every attempt for closure on good terms or validation was met with abuse.

You may not get any validation.  She may split you black for good.  I expect my ex will.

But that is the disorder.  Acceptance of that is the way towards healing.

[OFFtheTopRope]

Depressisolated:  can you elaborate on the theory of the love turning to hate, dictating the intensity or degree youre shown by them afterwards?  In other words, can you share any material relating to this in BPD or expand on your personal experiences?  I believe this may be along the lines of an aspect that could help me.  Somehow, i think it might allow me to realize all i gave wasnt for nothing.  I just want sonething that lends proof i was actually a living person to her then and not an irreplaceable object to feed her needs for a time.

Surnia:  knew her 5 years.  She was my best friend and rock for 2 years while i was going thru alot of personal trials.  She was solid and strong, idolized me like an older, protective brother before we got out of other relationships and became romantic  They say "love is friendship on  fire" and thats exactly how it felt.  Incredibly "right" with humor and hope, with a well established base of friendship. 

So i miss my hot lover & best friend i expected to always count on.  This betrays my trust in people now. 

Long familiar story short, i was resented, frozen out after a year of trying to leave limbo.  Was kept on the hook while she secured a replacement.  She keeps doors open that im afraid to close.  She thinks im creepy and her enemy.  Im neither but have no defense.  Shes surrounded herself with a whole army of haters who soak up anything evil she tells them about me.  Last i knew past summer, we were still working it out.  Apparently not.  I hate no closure after fighting so hard to get it for a very long time.  All that shes drug out couldve been settled over a year ago instead of attempting to do it now.  I need an end to the whole thing.  I need to make peace and forgive myself. 

I just dont know how to do that.  Im stuck.  Guilt, shame, and being the target of such hate by an unreasonable, unremorseful, cold, rude, no mercy, vengeful woman who turned into a royal witch really strikes deep into my core.  No explanation seems right or just.  I dont know why im still suffering and it makes no sense!  So im frustrated and truly miss having a best friend to turn to.  How could all her apparent empathy that used to make me feel better have turned to mean indifference? 

This is really not a new case.  Her silent treatments got longer & longer, especially during depression after a close family members' death last year.  She described herself as numb, empty, no purpose, cant function.  I stepped back during this & think it put the nail in all we had.  I was LDR at the end and out of sight was out of mind.  She didnt want me there during what she said was the worst time of her life.  I can pinpoint the change and she admitted she was heading to a big crash in life eventually.  I told her when it happens, dont look for me. 

Its hard to believe this decision is forever.  Im in denial and was denied the chance to ever talk to her again.  All i get is sniping, sarcasm, accusations and hate.  But generally, im ignored and her friends have access to her email from me.  Exploited and trashed totally. 

[OFFtheTopRope]

Really:  i can relate 100%.  Never just seems like a real long time.  Ive never been challenged to wait for anything that long.  It seems so pointless.  I feel the rush of time bearing down on me and was conditioned for reward/punishment so long.  Thats why it seems like my punishment should eventually be given mercy by her... .if i knew i was painted black by the disorder forever, id also do better. 

[Seb]

Hi, ottr!  

I just wanted to share two quotes I remember reading when I looking for answers. You see I felt that my ex hated me too. I honestly believe no one was as close to my ex, no one was as kind and giving (a sentiment she echoed many many times) as I was to her. Yet I am the only ex she has ever cut out completely. She has pushed me away completely and slammed the door - totally confusing as I never did anything to hurt her.

Ok, so to the 2 quotes. The first I read on a forum for people with BPD. She said, "I agree that we love more intensely. Sometimes it seems that we live more intensely. But I have found that the more we love someone, the greater power they have for triggering distress responses". In other words, the more they care about someone, the more their disorder is triggered and the more they act out/push away.

The second was from another website where an ex-partner recalled asking her ex why he hated her so much. His response was that he didn't hate her, he hated himself. I really think that's true.

It's a sentiment that's been echoed here by many wise people, but generally, pwBPD will cause the greatest hurt to the people they care about the most.

[Faded]

Hate is a strong word.

I dont believe for one minute this person hates you.

Thjey did what they did to fill their own void, by not placing your feelings within the need to fill that void you feel as though that person hates you.

Not the case, as mentioned above by another poster they hate themselves,although i wouldnt even describe it as hate for themselves,they just dont know who they are, they have no self identity.

These people cannot express love in its true form in just the same way they cannot express hate in its true form.

Quite simply, its nothing more than selfish behaviour, they dont love us, they dont hate us, we fill a void and when that void is filled we are no use to them or when that void becomes to big for us to fill they find another supply for the void to be filled.

Its a tough life filling someone elses voids when they have no idea who they are or what the voids are that they need filling, they just fill them, give themselves supply.

See it as a shpping trip for them if you like, they got all their shopping and have left the shop.

They'll need more items in the future but they will have  number of shops they can get their supply from.

[TheRealSully]

Wow.  Reading these posts is like reading  my own story.  We worked on her mental illness for so many years, thinking it was all sorts of things, but in the end, it was solid BPD through and through.

Thank you for this thread.  Very enlightening. 

[Diana82]

Hi there

RE Faded's post... this is so true.

I have struggled with my breakup which happened 4.5 months ago. Everyday is a struggle.

My ex dumped me after I told her she was too inconsistent and defensive. We had been together for close to 3 years and I did not have a clear idea of who she was and what she stood for. Stories of abuse that happened in the past would change or I'd hear about new abuse stories. Every person she had dated before me had apparently been a stalker or abusive. She changed her opinions easily after being so firm about them earlier. She'd complain about feeling isolated and lonely even though she had a huge family and loads of loving friends and me! A loving girlfriend.

She seemed unstable and a depressive and I was really unsure what to do.

She would snap very easily whenever she was questioned over a change in opinion or action and she was very hypersensitive. She did not handle criticism at all well.

So when I finally stood up to her being too inconsistent and changeable (implying she's deceptive)- she CRACKED it at me! I got dumped and told to leave her alone. She ignored all apologies and attempts to reconcile.

She had 0 compassion.

She didn't even return my stuff.

And she changed her number so I couldn't even reach her. Totally erased.

Only a week earlier I was at the hospital with her newborn nephew in the middle of the night- supporting her! I had supported her throughout her depression issues.

But it's as if she can't remember any of it. All she can recall is that fight where I told her off.

And now I am painted black. I know she had smeared me to get friends. Her family also would have asked why she abruptly dumped me and changed her number! She would have told them I did something terrible to her.

Once I found a note she had written to herself (she carried it around with her in her handbag):

Sometimes I feel I can't cope with life and it's too much to bear. But other people cannot fill the void- that's not their responsibility".

What stable healthy person carries that around with them in their handbag? I was there to fill her void.  I was put on a pedestal and fell off it. Now I'm not needed to fill the void so have been discarded like trash.

[Blazing Star]

I want someone to theorize or explain the BPD "hate" in a way i might feel validated and try to wrap my head around. 

 

These articles explain the BPD "hate"

How a Borderline Personality Disorder Love Relationship Evolves

BPD BEHAVIORS: Splitting

Remember it is not personal it is their illness.

Love Blazing Star

[Yolo]

It is not personal, technically.  But it kind of is.

The details aren't personal--exactly what they say could be a projection or fabrication--what they believe when they are splitting--that you left them or whatever they can manipulate as their perspective... .might also not be personal.

But it's kind of 2 tier I guess... .sort of like the emotion of 'anger'... it is usually the symptom of a deeper emotion.

The process of splitting is personal IMO (maybe not how it manifests).  For many BPD's they seem to function well, even thrive in superficial circumstances.  Surface stuff... .and many operate well.  But they are human and seek connection like most humans do naturally.

The fact that they split us is personal... .

I am with the side that believes that in a way, the truth that you are a trigger for them does mean you are special. It means there was something beyond the surface there.

There really is a fine line between love and hate.  I hate to throw cliches around, but the opposite of love is not hate.

I loved my Ex, and told him so in the hours before I told him to pound sand and go-to hades.  I didn't mean that... .he knows it, he knows there is a correlation. I know it too... .which is how I could in an odd way think when he was raging at me, that he was just upset and it was a testiment in a way to the degree of his love for me... .you dont get this angry at someone that means nothing. if it true.   If you love, then the reaction to any number of major crises can swing it wildly.  But the opposite of love really isn't hate... .it is indifference.

Listening to "Battle Scars" by  Guy Sebatian and Lupe Fiasco so coincidental it came on now!  A really good listen by the way... .but I think they are singing about someone that is really at War with Love.  Very sad.

Partial validation?

[myself]

OTTR, sounds like she's projecting. The negative feelings she has about herself are too hard for her to face, so she sends them out onto you. Seeing you so negatively now, she can't stand being with you, because she's talked herself into believing what isn't true so she can continue avoiding herself. When she sees the 'bad' in you now, she's really seeing herself, and that's too painful. She HATES it. Not you. Don't take it too personally (some of it is, though, and it's true, there's a fine line between this stuff sometimes). It's just the twisted process pwBPD go through trying to not feel so overwhelmed. It's too bad so many of us wind up taking damage from it. You mention she's surrounding herself with 'haters'. Could be she's putting on an act for them and keeping it going, getting their sympathy and attention. If she was hanging out with clowns, she'd be dressed up and acting like a clown, you know? This disorder is like an out of control wildfire and it's best to get to higher safer ground. Her seeing you as 'all bad' could change at any time. One question to ask yourself is, what are you going to have changed to make your own situation better whether she's 'hating' you or not? Focus on what you love about yourself. Her opinion: Does it matter?

[DepressIsolatedMeg]

Hi offthetoprope,

Sorry for taking a while to respond to your question. You asked why I think love is hate, and hate is love. I personally is not articulate enough to explain why it is like that, but here's a link to an article about love-hate relationship, hope it will help you to understand it better, and feel better soon.

" Hating the one you love" : www.psychologytoday.com/blog/in-the-name-love/200804/hating-the-one-you-love-i-hate-you-i-love-you

I once heard someone saying, "the most painful thing to encounter is not when your loved one hates you, it is when your loved one does not have any emotion for you at all, not even hate." If she hates, that means she still care. Maybe it sounds like nonsense to some people, and maybe it's just a hypothetical thinking. In the end it helped me to feel better, and relieved. Hope you will feel better very soon! Hang in there!

[Jay08]

Megs posts are spot on.

It does seem with BPD the more angry/harsh she way things end or they act, the more they felt for you.

I posted a topic the other day about closure and why the end things the way they do.

BPD mind is sick. A normal person can not end things with all the rage/hate with a loved one because of the feelings you have. Even if you loved them at one point and no longer do, you still have feelings which make you want to let them down in the easiest possible way.

With a BPD, letting you go is not infinite to them. They literally convince themselves you did something to deserve it in order to not let the "abandonment" issues overtake them. How can they leave someone who treated them so well? This is why they split you black, there needs to be a reason for them to leave, even though there is none in a logical sense.

Mature closure would mean the death of the relationship for them, the death of the relationship means the possibility of them being alone forever if future relationships dont work, hence the recycle attempts after their crazy behavior towards you.

You did mean something to her. We all meant something. Do not let some of these posts make you think otherwise, they are mentally ill but they are not vegetables. Yes, they are filling a void, but they do believe its "love", but ultimately its just infatuation. If it meant absolutely nothing, they would not be BPD, they would be antisocial.