It feels like futility

[elemental]

My BPD is Russian and today is the Russian orthodox Christmas eve.

His ex has mailed me and told me he has walked out and is angry and refusing to come back and spend the evening with his children ( and her, persumably) and that he is in discord on Christmas with her whole family. It is terrible she says and Elemental you destroyed our beautiful family.

Yes. I am a bad one. She is highly religious, but not a very nice person. I am ignoring her, of course.

And wondering how much more black I can get.

Prior to hearing from her, I saw him in the online game and was surprised to see him there. I guess I am dumb, because I mailed him and asked if he was doing ok. I already knew he wasn't, but I miss him and I wanted him to know I feel for him.

So far, no response and I get the feeling there will not be one any time soon. Guess I hurt my own self by trying.

It triggers ME to get the silence. It used to be I would send a few more mails, then get mad. This time I just log off the game and try to calm myself that it is not the end of the world.

Does detachment mean not feeling sad or anxious?

And how long can this guy rage at everyone like this?

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[sm15000]

Does detachment mean not feeling sad or anxious?

Hi Elemental,

I have been out of my 13 yr r/s 18 months, haven't seen him for over a year, complete NC 7 months.  I wouldn't say even now I am 100% detached.  For the most part yes but he is still the first thing I think of when I wake up in the morning, I still feel sad and I'm sure any contact from him would raise my anxiety still.  I suppose what going through the process of detachment brings is better management of those emotions as the reality sets in.  So, I'm sad but I see the reality of the situation and I am under no illusion as I was before; he could raise my anxiety but I would react differently now, I wouldn't escalate it.

It seems like you are doing this already by, for example, not reacting to his ex, and not reacting in ways you did before to him ignoring you   

You are not dumb by asking him if he is OK, you are being emotionally honest.  Don't let it hurt you that HE hasn't replied, just understand it and know in yourself YOU have done the emotionally mature thing by being concerned about him.  You are also not the bad one, you are just the scapegoat for his ex for their r/s failing.  That says more about her than you!

You are going about this the best way possible, reflecting on your actions, processing, giving space, and changing your actions in an attempt to improve things.  I don't know how this will turn out for you but you can do no more 

[elemental]

Everytime I reach out to him and he blows me off, I feel like I gave my power away.

Am I?

He doesn't trust me anymore. He feels I am the problem with his ex, because I have responded to her occasionally over the years. And recently, in December I answered her twice, and he indicates I am never to speak to her, so he feels l am not trustworthy. She does twist the knife a lot more when I do respond. She tells me all the time in her mind I do not have a relationship with him and I am having a big fantasy that I do.

I think he is minimizing me a lot and painting me black to her so she will chill and not cause him problems.

[patientandclear]

Everytime I reach out to him and he blows me off, I feel like I gave my power away.

Am I?

This might not be a popular view on the Leaving board, but I really think you are retaining your power by continuing to act with integrity and being true to your genuine feelings.  I think when you give away your power is when you allow abusive dynamics to go on -- so if he were berating you, and you were apologizing to achieve peace, that would be giving away power.  You have steadfastly refused to do that this go-round.  Being you -- caring for him at an appropriate distance and showing that -- I think is the fastest way to get our feet under us in the aftermath of hurtful episodes with pwBPD.

He doesn't trust me anymore. He feels I am the problem with his ex, because I have responded to her occasionally over the years. And recently, in December I answered her twice, and he indicates I am never to speak to her, so he feels l am not trustworthy. She does twist the knife a lot more when I do respond. She tells me all the time in her mind I do not have a relationship with him and I am having a big fantasy that I do.

I think he is minimizing me a lot and painting me black to her so she will chill and not cause him problems.

No doubt.  But that's him.  It isn't caused by you and it isn't something you can control, even by contorting yourself into the ultimate pretzel.

You could just as well end the first sentence there after three words: "he doesn't trust."  You ... .  or anybody.  Trust is the entire problem.  He can't, really.  He isn't learning how, either, because he refuses to accept that there is something wrong and get help.

Doesn't the news that he's raging at the entire world give you some relief?  This is just him.  You may still prove to be the port in the storm over time and with distance, if you continue to act with love and self-respect.  Right now that means being quite far away.  Give him a chance to learn and grow.  Maybe he will.

[elemental]

Yes, true about the ending  board. I am not trying to end, though I do feel a lot of despair.

I saw something a while back that someone wrote that when you are trying to stay, you are working on ways to build up and not tear down, so the actions would be completely different. They further said that the transformative power of love and compassion, etc, is immense.

The detachment thing... it is really hard for me. I have so many strong emotions caught up in this. I didn't allow myself to just pause and feel things for years. I mean like the grief of my sisters dying. The near loss of my mother. Mom was back in the hospital with pnuemonia and they said maybe she had sepsis. I just sat here and sank down and wept. I had no energy for anger at fate, God, or whatever devils are running around out there.

Mom is going to be ok. She is back home, it really got me, though.

The last couple of weeks, it seems all I do is cry.  I don't know if it is self pity. I don't really blame anyone, except I feel so sad and I am deeply sad that I didn't understand he may have BPD. So it just feels like grief and pain. I never had this before in my life like this.

I do feel some relief that he is like this with everyone. I feel bad for him a lot. I don't want to be abused, though.

[patientandclear]

Adding up everything you wrote there, I think it means: what you are doing is entirely correct.  Grieving, detaching, expressing genuine love and affection, declining to be abused.  I don't think you could be on a more correct path.  Who knows where exactly it will go, but all the ingredients you have put in the mix are good.  Both for you, and for him, actually.

[elemental]

He has convinced himself that I am a nutter and explosive and may blow apart at him at any moment.

I can't deny I have been really upset. I didn't understand till about a week or so ago why he was asking me to stay but refusing to show remorse and and take the simple steps I was asking to rebuild trust. It was driving me crazy and I was getting really frustrated and lashing out.

Then that last thing about the online game money and I understand he has re-written our history to make me a monster and he seemed really stunned when he realized I had not come even close to what he had accused me of because I had the chat logs and he could SEE it.

It's not ok with me, the re-writing history, but for me I needed to understand in order to be able to for real change how I was handling things.  I was asking him all the time WHY he was breaking agreements, blaming, refusing to help... .  and in return he was calling me unco-operative  

I get it now. I understand it in context of BPD and I GET it. So I am not so angry. I am unhappy and feeling some frustration but I am aeons away now from being in the state it takes for me to take a smack at him or his dumb ex.

I don't know how to undo this statement from him that he feels that I am a ticking timebomb. I know I can't debate, probably can't explain or reason with him over it.

I feel stuck. I know he probably didn't answer because he is already upset, and he sees me as an explosive element that could take the next few days he has to interact with his ex if he wants to see his kids... .  to a whole new level of he!

As an aside, I am a water sign, water element, which is why I chose that as my name here and have the painting of the water elemental... .  water dragon is what it is... fire and water.

[elemental]

He wrote and wished me happy new years.

I can tell he is not happy. The blow out continues with the ex.

This time, with my new tools and understanding, I want to do this differently.

I am going to stay low key and keep low contact, because I think right now every contact has to be a productive, helpful, or neutral one.

Any advice that anyone thinks would be helpful is very welcome.

[laelle]

  I agree with patient.  I think your doing everything just fine.  I try to prepare myself when I send an email that I know will probably not be answered.  Send it... .  go out and do stuff for me... .  come home... .  see if response... .  take a hot bath... .  read... .  relax.  Tell myself that we cant control what other people do.  Their rights and wrongs (and stupidity for not emailing ya)  are determined by them, not you.  Your a kind and loving person, and its really his loss.  You see that his anger is not just at you but at everyone.  Be happy he has it aimed at someone else.  Ignore his ex wife.  She is no friend or relation to you, she has no control over you, she needs to mind her own f'ing business.  Ignore her, its the worse insult.

Which online game do you play?  I just about have them all.

[patientandclear]

Elemental:

I think your nice message from him wishing you a Happy New Year is evidence that you are completely on the right track.  Nothing you are doing is doing any damage.  If anything it is clearing some space for something that is not bad, or possibly better than just not bad.

So I think you continue as you are.  If he deals with you nicely, you can reciprocate.  You can reach out gratuitously, as you did, to say you hope he is OK, when you are not hearing from him.  Totally hear you on how every contact needs to do no harm, be neutral or better.  I think you have the tools to achieve that if you are firm with yourself and clear on your boundaries.

That's what I would spend some energy on right now: figuring out what your boundaries are going to be and what the consequences are going to be if he doesn't observe them.  Because you want to be able to be consistent, calm, clear and loving about communicating those, when and if you are in a more open communication mode.

This is a really good example of how sitting still and doing nothing while the whirlwind rages around you is often the very best course of action.  Not doing harm turns out to be quite an accomplishment, all on its own.

[Cardinals in Flight]

Patientandclear said

"This is a really good example of how sitting still and doing nothing while the whirlwind rages around you is often the very best course of action.  Not doing harm turns out to be quite an accomplishment, all on its own."

This has been the single most valuable lesson that I have learned, and practiced in regards to my pwBPD.  When the dust settled from the rage/dysregulation and my pwBPD asked how come I was so 'quiet' during the time of upheaval, (I'd always been the one to jump in and 'fix', the first to initiate) I simply said, "I was loving you from here".  We still have periods of time where we both need space, just being quiet is not always a negative thing.

Big hugs to you elemental!

CiF

[elemental]

I didn't answer him right away. I was going to wait a few days. He wrote again and asked if I had seen his greeting and he said he was not doing very well.

I have an online store, and his ex keeps writing to me there. I can't block her, she writes from everywhere, so I gave it up. She pounced yesterday and said if they had stayed married, it would have been their 11th wedding anniversary. So I was treated to some stupid stuff from there about how he was back with her and they were spending the day together, blah blah.

And funnily enough about an hour later she was back to tell me off blaming me for her having conflict with him. She says she unfriended him. Social site dramas: how did we ever live without them back in the 90's?  

Anyway, I did respond to him and said thank you and why are you low ( I know, I know, it's pretty obvious why, but I figured I would ask) and if he wanted to tell me, I am here.

After that radio silence from him and I haven't said anymore.

[patientandclear]

I think that was undoubtedly exactly the right thing to do.   

[kl315]

I agree with everyone that you are handling him as best as you can. And a couple of things about the ex... .  she's probably baiting you because she has figured out that if you take that bait and say something, it will cause problems between you and him. Also, if she really had him back, she wouldn't be contacting you. People usually only do that when they are feeling extremely insecure and he insecurity may be caused by the fact that she's picking up his ongoing feelings for you. She wouldn't feel the need to drive a wedge if there was nothing to drive a wedge into. You said he doesn't trust you because you contacted her in some way. What does he say about the fact that she's basically stalking you? Has he ever seen her written attacks on you?

I think a lot of us "get" why they behave the way they do but it sure doesn't make it any easier. We "know" that their episodes have little to nothing to do with us, but as empathetic people who have given so much of ourselves, we can't help but take it a little personally and grieve for their pain. I have to say, silent treatment is worse for me than any argument we could have. I'd rather have mine rage and release his demons than stonewall me.

I hope that you are able to maintain your current state of calm LC (even though you don't feel particularly calm). In the long run, it probably will lead to calmness within yourself and teach him that when you are faced with abuse, you WILL take a step back. This man so badly needs professional help... .  I hope for both of your sakes he realizes it and gets it.

[elemental]

I am pretty sure he is having a lot of conflict, and most of it is over me and his defiance to her and her family over doing as they are telling him.

This guy is constantly in a state of trying to prevent people knowing what he is really doing in order to avoid epic conflict. He's always been very reserved and quiet, a geeky type person, highly intelligent and sensitive, with advanced degrees in mathematics and physics. Combined with a love of politics and literature... .  well it was easy for me to love him.

His ex is an agressive and demanding woman. He does know she pesters me. What he has said is to ignore her because he tried talking to her and she escalated. Every time he tries to shut her down, she does something more extreme, so he has defaulted to avoiding, lying, covering up. He asked me to ignore her and not add to the conflict because you can't reason with her and she LOVES getting the upset reactions.

I fed into it some. Every 3-4 months I have typically lost it eventually and told her off. It never helps me. Yes, he has seen her attacks. Right after he went back to her in 2010, she escalated even more. Since mom is sick a lot, I leave my cell phone on at night, and this woman would wait till 3 AM and call me up. One morning, she called me 45 times. I was pretty messed up at that point and smacked her back. She then informed me how shocked my BPD was about my actions and said "your true colors are showing". Of course she didn't tell him it took 2 weeks and hundreds of calls before I told her off. I changed my number, and have changed it 2 times more since then.

She steals his cell phone when he visits and invades his privacy if she can, into email accounts, etc. Anyway, he finally started keeping his phone locked as a result.

He informed me a few weeks ago the reason he is not talking to me is because I told her off again. Usually he calms down after a few weeks. He is way slower now to do that.

Even though I know he is probably not actively angry at me right now, and he did inform me he is not ok... .  I am actually missing him and I feel punished :/

I guess he will touch base when he is ready. I would like to reach out, but I know if I were advising someone else here, I would say give it a few more days, then say hi or something neutral and nice.

Starting to feel like we are not in a relationship at all  

[kl315]

Ugh... .  the thing with his ex would really be hard for me to tolerate. She has assaulted you. Not physically but mentally and he is basically saying that the price of admission into his world is for you to sit back and take whatever she dishes out, no matter how disruptive and hurtful. And it's clear that simply taking her crap does not result in the slinging of less crap. I don't see any difference between this and her forcing you into a corner and slapping you repeatedly across the face... .  and him saying you're not to hit her back even once or he'll stop speaking to you. You wouldn't be human if you didnt break down and give her a good smack of your own once in a while.

I'm sorry elemental. He's just treating you so unfairly when all you want to do is love and care for him. How old are his children? I only ask because even if he were to take whatever steps necessary to heal himself and even if you two are able to work it out and enjoy a good relationship, as long as she has his children with her at home she will continue to trigger him and cause chaos. You understand him and have committed to a relationship with him but can you deal with HER for years? It's difficult enough maintaining a relationship with the pwBPD that we love... .  to have to deal with one that we don't? Good grief.

Anyway, I'm sorry for your situation and again, if you're comitted to "staying", I think you've taken the best possible course of action. Hang in there.

[elemental]

His daughter will be 10 years old next month.

His son will be one year old on February 14.

Yeh, his ex   she thinks since she is very religious that she is always "right". 

She always hurts the kids when he fights back or tries to get away from her. So he keeps getting pulled back in.

It's really rare for him to complain, and I think he has been reaching limits. It would not surprise me if he turned his back on everyone and bolted for a while. I would like to offer support, but he is not asking, and I remember people here saying stand back and let him deal with his mess.

It's hard, but I will do that.