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Skills we were never taught
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Author Topic: Ranting/venting ds in jail  (Read 758 times)
cfh
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« on: January 10, 2013, 09:37:39 PM »

OK I am trying to stay calm.  I have just poured myself a glass of wine, I'm doing square breathing and now I will write. 

We have paid big bucks to have a lawyer try ds case as a Mental Illness case.  Things are looking good because DA might agree to transfer his probation back to our home state on the condition that ds enters into a long term treatment facility (probably a year or so) and successfully complete it as an alternative to prison.

My ds just called me from jail and is very upset/angry/pissed because he said "I have failed or been kicked out of every residential program I've ever been in so when I fail at this one I go to prison in NYC". Very scary.

Yes it's true that he has been in so many programs and has been kicked out of every one.

Has he already given up on himself?  I thought he would be able to complete a program this time because the only other option was prison.  But it's like he has already made up his mind that he can't do it.

Maybe he can't do it... .  maybe he's not capable of doing it.  I don't know. He's got BPD and lots of other issues so maybe it's unrealistic to think that he can successfully complete a program. 

But if he can't he goes to prison for a long time.

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mary290

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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2013, 09:55:53 PM »

Cfh, he just sounds very scared and frustrated.  I know this is a time when the anger and venting is strongest.  I know our jail experience a few years ago was equally scary.  The expensive lawyer saved the day, worth every penny.  The jails are so over crowded, they really do try to avoid sending these kids there if it can be avoided.  I know they have to hit rock bottom before they can start that climb back up and this sounds like it could be his rock bottom.  I am still so new to this disease but I would recommend validation.  I am so sorry you and he are going through this.  I hope you can relax a little and feel better.
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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2013, 06:15:34 AM »

cfh,

He sounds so scared.  How awful for all involved.  Is there anyone who can explain to you, considering his past failure rate, what program would work?  I am thinking of proposing an RTC program to dd19, and saying it is rather like pre-college for her spirit and mind, so she can succeed going forward.  It is work, it is hard, but it is still safe and eaiser than life on her own.  Prep school for life.  She is very resistant too.  If you had to ask yourself why he failed out of the others, is it that he just can't comply, or were they the wrong places for him and BPD?

Sounds like your dear boy is triggered by his past, and wants to settle for the hell he knows, vs the hell he does not know.  However, unless this facilty where his term would be served, specializes in mental health, and gives him the deep and consistant care he needs, I can see how you are so torn.

mik
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griz
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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2013, 06:42:01 AM »

cfh:

I can certainly understand the big glass of wine and also your sons fears. How will they decide what treatment facility he will be placed in.  Are there mental health professionals involved in the decision or it purely the court system that decides.  Does the facility have to be in New York.  sorry for so many questions but it seems like this decision needs to be the right one.

It must be so scary for your son to know that he could not succeed before and this being his only chance and equally scary for you as well. 

Griz
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cfh
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« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2013, 07:48:25 AM »

griz, mikmik, mary

The RTC or psychiatric hospital or whatever does have to be in NY in fact it has to be in one of the 5 boroughs.  The court doesn't choose the place, we do. 

When we spoke to the lawyer he said the DA was open to lowering the charge and transferring ds back to our home state as long as we put in place a legitimate long term residential plan that could be verified. So it's up to us to find this place. Where we will get the money I have no idea.

mik... .  he's probably been in at least 7 residential places over the last 5 years.  Most have been really good and always specialized in mental health but he usually get's kicked out. His mind works so differently and he has such poor judgement so he makes mistakes.

Here's an example.  He was at a place in VT and he liked it and was doing well.  There was a girl who confided in him that she was going to commit suicide that night and had been cutting herself all day.  So my ds told her that a better idea would be to feel the pain but not go as far as suicide.  So he showed her how to brand herself using a burning paperclip! Staff found out and we were called to pick him up asap. 

To this day he still doesn't understand what he did wrong since he feels as though he saved her life.

Last year we sent him to the Menninger Clinic in TX ONLY for an evaluation (which is like McLean in MA) they specialize in BPD.  He knew it was only for a month and that the purpose of the assessment and evaluation was to figure out the best way to move forward. He started off great which he always does then ended up alienating every staff member and they couldn't wait for him to leave.

A big problem for him is that he thinks the world is "out to get him" so he doesn't trust anyone.  And he becomes non compliant. Fights everyone's efforts to help him.

He's been in some very good places but he's 29 now and unless it's a lock down I'm not sure he can make it either.  He's managing OK in jail because he can't get kicked out. 

I think he's so scared right now and has no confidence that he can succeed.  To successfully complete any of these programs you have to work hard and be compliant.  I don't know if he can do it.


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« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2013, 11:52:09 AM »

cfh,

Is there any way that you can help him to be compliant?  My son also had this problem.  He always thought he was being helpful, which he actually was sometimes, but he didn't fit with the program.  He would come late to meetings, yet he couldn't understand why people wouldn't cut him slack, as he told me he was the only one, who went to the chapel and the only one who took the art therapy seriously.  He also told me that he was told to be honest and when he was, people said he had attitude.

It is about playing the game by the rules, no matter how silly the rules seem.  It is about living in a far from ideal world and so you have to read the outside clues.  If the anterior insulate isn't activated, when one is in harm's way, it is tricky.

Can you spend time talking to him about how to survive in a facility?  He doesn't have to buy into the gig, just appear to comply.  Can you talk to people at the facility and explain that his anterior insulae doesn't work and so he needs calm, prompt reminders when he is out of line?  Can you find one sympathetic, kind person at the facility, who understands that recovery happens when there is a mentor who is compassionate and patient and firm. 

Maybe talk to your son about his need to comply, no matter how he feels.  Maybe people are not too nice, they blame him, yet he needs to survive in this jungle of a world.

Validate him when you can agree.  Let him express his perceptions.  Listen, listen, listen and understand.

"You know, I can understand why you think the world is out to get you.  You have had some hard knocks.  Sadly, that is the world in which we live.  Can you think of ways that a good, thoughtful, kind guy like yourself can survive in a place where no-one cuts you slack?  Strategies."

"You haven't had the best luck.  How can that change?  I agree that the RTF misread the situation when you were trying to help.  What could you have done differently to protect yourself from people who will mis-read your intentions? "

"Yeah, the world is fulling scumbags and stupid people.  You aren't like that.  So how can you make sure that you aren't too affected by people who are not as kind and intelligent as you are?"

Reality

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« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2013, 11:57:33 AM »

cfh,

Your son FEELS defeated because he has had so many negative experiences.  In a way, he is too sweet.  He can't see danger when it is staring him in the face.

He needs to learn to be very careful.  Tell him to listen carefully and to ask for clarification if he doesn't understand. 

Advocate ahead of time with professionals.

I am convinced that he can handle this situation with the right support and strategies, though he needs to follow the strategies precisely.

I am rooting here on the sidelines.

Reality
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Esperança_Hope
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« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2013, 02:35:14 PM »

Cfh, dear. I´m sorry about all.  It´s so interesting this : he is ok in jail because he can´t be kicked off. I would try to work with him on this. What does it mean for him a place where he can´t be kicked off? Very safe?  He doesn´t need to "think" about his behavior. the rules are very , very clear and there are guardians who protect him of himself? If it´s... .  so, your DS is trying to cope with his issues his way. Maybe is not the best but is his way to say : this i can do.  I´m sorry if I´m wrong because maybe i didn´t get the point because my poor english traps me. I´m sorry i´m not so present , at moment, because my non-dd is here and she is very down... .  fighting with me and her father because we don´t agree with her about some choices she is palnning to do in her life abroad. So, DS31 is getting better , every single day, and non-dd is getting "crazy". OMG! It´s fryday... .  and we´ll receive people at home. I´ll have that glass of wine. for sure. I missed you, CFH  

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cfh
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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2013, 09:17:34 AM »

Our biggest problem is that we can't talk to him except on the phone and a 15 minute call costs $17. 

Last night he told me he would rather serve out his jail time which will probably be three years.  He will be transferred to the prison where I think life will be a lot rougher than county jail.

He does not believe he needs residential and thinks he would do fine in a day program but the DA would never accept that.

Also anytime ds has tried to live on his own it's a disaster.  Lots of drugs, 911 calls, trips to the psych ER where they send him right back home, living in filth, always evicted.

He wants drugs and can always find a doc to write an RX.

He can't play the game and just get through it.  He's not capable of that yet.

We thought being in jail would wake him up enough so that he would go along with anything rather than serve more time.

We would love to be able to have the time to sit and talk with him and try to get through to him but it's too hard with these short phone calls.

And his final comment was "there are no programs that will even accept me" and I think he's right.
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qcarolr
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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2013, 04:12:24 PM »

cfh - this is so hard for all of you. Can you listen to what your DS is telling you he believes he CAN DO? He believes he can make it through 3 years in jail.  He knows he does not believe he is able to comply with rtc programs. Can you support him in his choice here?

Where would he be prison - CO or NY?  Can you get information about where he would be - ie. they would be responsible to provide his care. It is hard, but maybe this would give him 3 years without access to those drugs he searches out - 3 years of food and housing - 3 years of access to some kinds of treatment options - 3 years he could not get 'kicked out'. And maybe he would get released before the 3 years if he is doing OK?

Is this possibly your DS accepting some consequences for the choices he has made in the past - that being in jail is an appropriate consequence? I do not know what his original conviction was that led to this probation.

Just food for thought. No parent wants to accept this for their child. Sometimes it is all out of our hands. We can be miserable, or we can try to find acceptance and lessen our suffering. Let us know how things are going.

qcr  
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« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2013, 10:42:37 PM »

I have to agree about letting him make the decision as to ho w he wants this to work out. Our son had a public defender and got the jail diversion program because that is what he chose.  He knows what he has to do to stay in the program... .  or off to jail he goes. It's so hard watching this... .  but do yourself a favor... .  provide the choices, then let him decide.   I have been in your shoes... .  it is so hard, but that's the only way they can take responsibility for their actions.
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cfh
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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2013, 08:32:56 AM »

Lovesjazz and Qcarolr,

You make a good point.  What ds IS telling us is that he can do 3 years in jail but he can't do the same 3 years in an RTC. 

As much as we would like to believe he'd be better in an RTC he seems to know he can't do it and so jail feels safer. 

If I'm really honest with myself he needs to be in a lock down and RTC's are voluntary... .  if you mess up it's back to jail.  I know he will mess up... .  he won't be compliant and follow the rules.

If he chooses jail it has to be Colorado and he will be transferred to the prison. That part will be hard since he'll be so far away.  And I do worry that he will get hurt in jail. 

The original probation was because he climbed in his girlfriends window because his key to the front door wouldn't work(she blocked the door with furniture).  Turns out she had decided to break up with him that night so when he climbed in the window she called the cops.  It was a setup but he was stupid to climb in her window because it ended with a felony charge.

So we have to accept whatever decision ds makes and try to find some peace with it.

This has helped me look at the situation in a different light.
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lovesjazz
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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2013, 10:07:14 AM »

Our son was far away also. But in a different light, it helped me to let go. When they are in your backyard, you become involved... .  they get you involved. Be thankful he will have to do this on his own. You can put money into an account some can call you... .  tough love!   So hard. I will be thinking of you.
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cfh
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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2013, 10:16:23 AM »

I think I'm feeling stronger about this now.  Thanks for the big shoulders!
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